Missing Herrera

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Penny, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Oct 9, 2019

    edcunited1878 Full Member

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    Yeah, that's not exactly true is it.

    United have conceded 8 goals in 8 PL matches. 2 clean sheets, 4 1-goal games, and 2 2-goal games. That's tied for 4th least conceded goals.

    Meanwhile, United have scored 9 goals in 8 matches and only 5 goals in their past 7. That's 13th/14th most goals. 12 clubs have scored in double figures so far and United isn't one of them.

    And if my quick math is correct, there have been 232 goals scored in the PL across the 20 teams through 8 matches. That's an average of 11.6 goals per team. United are minus 2.6 goals compared to the average.

    Ten of the 11 teams (Crystal Palace) ahead of United have scored 11 goals or more.

    United don't score enough goals with a double pivot or two central mids regardless if one is Herrera or not.
  2. Oct 9, 2019

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Really really odd, some of our fans live in a fantasy world
  3. Oct 9, 2019

    meamth Full Member

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    Well, at least we know he is kinda injury prone anyway.

    Miss him? Yes, but he was missing most of the time through injuries as well. So not so much.

    Data showed that since that United career high of 50 appearances in 16-17, his appearances gradually decreased each season.

    From 50 in 2016-17 to 39 in 2017-18 and 28 in 2018-19.

    It might be early physical deterioration. We had him when he was on his peak at 2016-2017. Might be good decision to let go before he sign a new fat contract.

    If he signed a new contract and still injury prone with that big fat contract, will the caf be happy?
  4. Oct 9, 2019

    spaceboyRSA Full Member

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    And yet he is playing in the champions league with PSG.

    The rest I agree with.
  5. Oct 9, 2019

    kafta Perpetual Under 11's Team Player

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    We don't have any established midfielders with experience, who can link up play or set the tempo.

    We're not missing Herrera, we're missing a whole midfield.
  6. Oct 9, 2019

    Ban Full Member

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    Imagine that, guy was injured. Thats another myth that hes injury prone.
  7. Oct 9, 2019

    WR10 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Herrera leaving was the nail on the coffin. He created any resemblance of a midfield for us.
  8. Oct 9, 2019

    HNK55 New Member

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    He was a great player and a better midfielder than Kante.
  9. Oct 9, 2019

    Andersonson New Member

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    This.
  10. Oct 9, 2019

    Ekeke Full Member

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    Played 8, goals against 8

    [​IMG]

    That means we average needing 2 goals to win a match, not 1. 1 averages a single point for us not 3. And its better to try to go for 3 points than accepting 1, even if you sometimes lose that 1.

    So at present we need to be trying to score 2 goals, when we average and sometimes even struggle to get 1. If the defense was tighter we'd be able to get some 1-0 wins and get points on the board
  11. Oct 9, 2019

    edcunited1878 Full Member

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    I don't think Ander Herrera would allow United to keep more 1-nil scorelines if he was still at the club. Maybe a more pragmatic manager like Mourinho or Allegri would be happy to setup his team to get more results like United did against Leicester, but at the end of the day, United have issues scoring goals and setting up to concede zero and try to score 1 is a bit absurd.
  12. Oct 9, 2019

    Sylar Full Member

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    Herrera, however would allow for the ball to be won higher, and an easier transition into attack which would result in better chances. We currently suck against teams who sit back. However winning it in transition, doesnt allow teams to sit back, and thus results in chances being created.

    Our goal against Palace this season is an example. We would have probably seen more of that with Herrera in the team. And also a midfield three which would benefit a lot of our key players. Our best runs under LVG, Jose and Ole seemed to have Herrera in the team (normally as part of a midfield three).
  13. Oct 9, 2019

    edcunited1878 Full Member

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    The midfield 3 is the point. It allows you to match numbers in midfield when you have the ball or are trying to win it back. Herrera should have been upgraded on but wasn't replaced. McTominay can fill the role, but Matic should start over Fred as the holding mid.

    And it's not really about teams sitting back, it's their shape when they defend United. Mark Pogba closely, defend from inside out, push United towards the touchlines, two CBs can track one CF or pass him along to a CDM if he drops deep. When United have the ball, their two CMs are too far to connect with a forward player and play is too slow going forward because there isn't enough people showing for a pass then another forward pass. It's pass outside, back, then forward, square and meanwhile the CF makes a run but the man in possession is 50 yards away and can't make that over the top pass. Quicker passes between the lines and collective movement to manipulate space and drag players around with the ball isn't dependent on Herrera.
  14. Oct 9, 2019

    Harry190 Full Member

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    Idrissa Gueye is the centrepiece there, not Herrera.
  15. Oct 9, 2019

    Ekeke Full Member

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    Its not the plan, but when you cant get anything going on going forward a 1-0 win is great. Also Ander played our 2nd most passes forward from midfield last season after Pogba. So while McTominay is better in some ways, mainly dribbling forward, in other ways he isnt. He played a lot of backwards passes last season
  16. Oct 9, 2019

    Chaky_Best Full Member

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    We miss him of course. But not because is he Xavi, but he was the only one who could run a bit in this midfield and make a real transition between defense and attack.

    And I would also add that we miss Fellaini as we are not winning second balls anymore.

    My point is that we miss technics and intelligence in the midfield
  17. Oct 9, 2019

    edcunited1878 Full Member

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    United aren't even guaranteed a goal, let alone trying to score first. Mourinho did this before for a little while to pick up the points when he deployed Felliani as his deep holding midfielder who split the two CBs. I wasn't against that because the defense wasn't good quality and the midfield options he didn't particularly like. It was effective and I am all for being effective. But that team could legitimately score a goal or two, but easily could concede a goal or two.

    The current United team has conceded two open play goals against Palace (although DDG was questionably at fault for their second/game winning goal) and only one open play goal against West Ham (second goal was a free kick).

    We're extremely picky and over-reactive about Lindelof losing a deflected header against a giant CB from the second phase of a set piece or one goal here and there because when United go down one goal or a team equalize, United have a very difficult time picking up the urgency and showcasing resolve throughout the pitch in search of a goal of their own. The quality, mentality and know how of all the attackers isn't even close to good enough.

    The goals for and goals against for United and compared to the rest of the league clearly show their lack of goal scoring ability. And holding out for 1-nils isn't going to be good enough, it never is. Yes maybe a handful of times throughout the season, but you have to be able to fashion that single goal and be clinical from a few chances. United are barely getting a few chances and when they do it's completely fluffed and they feel that disappointment.
  18. Oct 9, 2019

    spaceboyRSA Full Member

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    Not the point.
  19. Oct 9, 2019

    Red Dreams Full Member

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    Its not a coincidence we started losing our way after he got injured against the scousers.

    Pogba/Ander/Matic was a very efficient midfield.

    But it was clear Matic was already declining and Ander would be next.
    The solution was to keep them while hiring 2 more solid midfielders.
    It was entirely Woodward's fault we did not do so.
    btw Ander wanted out because of how poorly his contract situation was handled by Woodward.
  20. Oct 9, 2019

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

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    Don't think we're missing him. We actually look ok as a unit defensively. Our problem is creating chances. Herrera would not help with that.
  21. Oct 9, 2019

    Red Dreams Full Member

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    we don't have a midfield. That is obviously the problem.
    We lack a top striker.
    Lukaku leaving was fine.
    but we should have got a replacement.
  22. Oct 9, 2019

    Ricardo de la Vega Full Member

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    I agree but you wont find too many on here lamenting his loss or calling for the club to have gone all out to retain him.

    Hererra was a touch of class in a team which is now utterly devoid of quality.