Mitten bang on about Mourinho

Oscie

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Started to read the article but gave up as I was losing the will to live.

What a load of poorly written waffly crap.
Waffle?

"Barcelona won one European Cup before 2006. Real Madrid didn't get beyond the round of 16 in the Champions League for six consecutive season between 2005-2010. Liverpool, the second most popular English club with the trophies to back it up, haven't won a league title since 1990. And what of the past greats? Ajax? Hamburg? Celtic? Inter Milan? AC Milan, the best team in Europe a decade ago, are 11th in Serie A. Imagine following Red Star Belgrade, the best team in Europe in 1991. War and politics have destroyed their fortunes so much that reaching the Champions League group stage is now considered a success."

You mean you consider a paragraph where he for some reason includes a brief history of European success of various clubs includng Red Star Belgrade and Hamburg, waffle?

I've absolutely no idea how you could possibly reach such a conclusion! :D
 

KirkDuyt

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Yeh, rubbish eh? Have you forgotten that's what got us into the CL?

Apart from anything, what a great night that was.
Oh the consequence of getting United in the CL is obviously massive. But that being the high point of winning it, does put some perspective on the trophy itself doesn't it?

Ofcourse winning the CL last year was a bit hard, since my esteemed countryman Vangle didn't even qualify for it :)
 

AshRK

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To say that Guardiola has signed 16 players is misleading as 4 are youngsters who have been loaned out to other clubs. Currently, 11 players in the squad are signed by Guardiola. Zinchenko is a fringe player and costs less than 2m, he has played only 20 min. in the PL. Mendy has played only 5-6 games in all compets. Bravo is a flop.

Basically, 8 of Guardiolla's signings have been seriously involved this season and 3 of them are squad players - Danilo, Gundogan and Bernardo. Against United he started with 4 of his signings (Ederson, Walker, Sane and Jesus) and vs Spurs with 4 too (Ederson, Walker, Gundogan, Sane). These signings (who started vs United and Spurs) cost about 150m - that is, less than a Mbappe.
But then why doesn't Jose get the same excuses. Pogba has been missed through injuries/suspension for almost half of the season. Bailly has been injured for more than a month Zlatan is just returning from a serious ACL injury. Lindelof is still adjusting to the league and is slowly improving. Mkhi has been performing like a man who doesn't know how to play football. So technically only 2 players (lukaku /matic) have been playing consistently this season.
 

Kostov

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But then why doesn't Jose get the same excuses. Pogba has been missed through injuries/suspension for almost half of the season. Bailly has been injured for more than a month Zlatan is just returning from a serious ACL injury. Lindelof is still adjusting the the league and is slowly improving. Mkhi has been performing like a man who doesn't know how to play football. So technically only 2 players (lukaku /matic) have been playing consistently this season.
No mate, you are doing it wrong, Jose deserves no excuses because he spent so much money. Even though every body else does the same.
 

VP89

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The “mangled transfer strategy” is primarily because of the rapid turnover of managers, obviously.

You have issues with Mitten, for some strange reason, but everything he’s written makes sense.
I wanted to edit my post but it got too late, I confused Mitten with Luckhurst when I said he's up his own arse.

But I don't agree with Mitten that it's Woodwards fault on transfers. He's got what the manager wanted every time.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I wanted to edit my post but it got too late, I confused Mitten with Luckhurst when I said he's up his own arse.

But I don't agree with Mitten that it's Woodwards fault on transfers. He's got what the manager wanted every time.
I don’t think he said it was all Woodward’s fault? From Mourinho’s perspective, the one issue I’m sure he holds against Woodward is not signing Perisic but the shambles of a squad he inherited is mainly down to Moyes/Van Gaal (as well as a lack of investment for the future during Fergie’s last few years). Although you do wonder how much signing the likes of Falcao, Di Maria and Schweinsteiger was for footballing reasons and how much down to an ill-fated galactico project to help build our “brand”.
 

Treble

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But then why doesn't Jose get the same excuses. Pogba has been missed through injuries/suspension for almost half of the season. Bailly has been injured for more than a month Zlatan is just returning from a serious ACL injury. Lindelof is still adjusting to the league and is slowly improving. Mkhi has been performing like a man who doesn't know how to play football. So technically only 2 players (lukaku /matic) have been playing consistently this season.
Why excuses? I'm pointing out facts. And I agree that the facts you mention should be taken into account.
 

AshRK

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Why excuses? I'm pointing out facts. And I agree that the facts you mention should be taken into account.
But those facts are rarely mentioned when it comes to Jose but I have seen multiple facts presented for pep when someone questions him.:rolleyes:
 

JPRouve

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No mate, you are doing it wrong, Jose deserves no excuses because he spent so much money. Even though every body else does the same.
Neither deserve excuses, they both got the players they wanted and spent a fortune. They are both required to outrageously dominate the league.
 

JPRouve

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“Outrageously dominate” a league where at least two other top managers (arguably three) also got the players they wanted and also spent a fortune?
Because they are supposed to be the two best managers in all of football and according to most there isn't even a comparison.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Because they are supposed to be the two best managers in all of football and according to most there isn't even a comparison.
Well that’s just silly. They’re both excellent managers with great cv’s and typically outspend most other managers. However they’ve also both had plenty of seasons where they didn’t “outrageously dominate” any league.
 

JPRouve

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Well that’s just silly. They’re both excellent managers with great cv’s and typically outspend most other managers. However they’ve also both had plenty of seasons where they didn’t “outrageously dominate” any league.
Surely, you can realize that it's a slight exaggeration. You are not telling me that you don't understand the point?
 

beedoubleyou

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Agree with every word he says. Why wouldn't I? I pretty much wrote the same thing here just a few weeks ago... Hi Andy!
 

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Pogue Mahone

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Surely, you can realize that it's a slight exaggeration. You are not telling me that you don't understand the point?
I understand it. I just disagree with it. Neither manager was expected to dominate the league to the extent that City are now. Mourinho’s doing slightly less well than you’d expect (with mitigating circumstances, some of which this thread is about) and Guardiola’s doing a lot better than expected (and has nothing to do with the thread topic, other than the new unspoken caf rule that saint Pep must be lauded in every thread).
 

JPRouve

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I understand it. I just disagree with it. Neither manager was expected to dominate the league to the extent that City are now. Mourinho’s doing slightly less well than you’d expect (with mitigating circumstances, some of which this thread is about) and Guardiola’s doing a lot better than expected (and has nothing to do with the thread topic, other than the new unspoken caf rule that saint Pep must be lauded in every thread).
I didn't talk about City current run and didn't used it as a benchmark, so you are not disagreeing with me or my point. Also City are in a great run put 5 games can totally change the perception of their season. My point was simple, neither manager can use money as an excuse, they have both been supported to extreme levels and since they are among the best managers that should put them in very favorable positions against pretty much everyone not named Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, Bayern and eventually Chelsea.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I didn't talk about City current run and didn't used it as a benchmark, so you are not disagreeing with me or my point. Also City are in a great run put 5 games can totally change the perception of their season. My point was simple, neither manager can use money as an excuse, they have both been supported to extreme levels and since they are among the best managers that should put them in very favorable positions against pretty much everyone not named Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, Bayern and eventually Chelsea.
Well the point being made in the OP is that even massive spending won’t turn things around much more quickly than we’ve seen at United, when a manager inherits a squad that’s deeply flawed by years of mismanagement.

If we’re looking for excuses for our current campaign I’d go with Pogba, Carrick and Bailly missing so much football over a lack of investment but I also think the overhaul our squad needed to be up there with the best teams around is far from finished and that’s going to take even more money.
 

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We must absolutely get behind Mourinho he's improved us hugely and won 2 decent trophies. He just needs to lighten up a bit as you can see his mood has a reflection on everything we do. Next game we win I want to see some positivity from him to try and pick the players up a bit.

This is a freak season for city, they are quality but next year teams will adapt to it and they will find it more difficult, we just have to persist and keep working at improving the side and the club as a whole.
 

sammsky1

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Its funny, and disturbing at the same time, how people who hate Mourinho, try to pick holes in anything that even remotely tries to defend his tenure. And funnily enough, these are the same people over and over again. Its like their vendetta is personal. They breath to wake up in the morning get in the caf and badger anyone who tries to mutter some positive words about our manager. It is disgraceful as the great SAF would say.

Give the guy a break, he is miserable because he is losing games or draws games. Show me a happy loser to show you a Loser. I think Jose is starting to realize that the task is much more complex and difficult that he expected.

And finally, I m happy to have a manager who looks pissed off when things dont go right. He is not here to play happy houses but to win games. And that what makes him a winner.
Thats because it is personal. Their criticism is not objective, its subjective based on their own personal dislike (for whatever bizarre reason) and so unlikely to change no matter what he does.
 

Di Maria's angel

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I didn't talk about City current run and didn't used it as a benchmark, so you are not disagreeing with me or my point. Also City are in a great run put 5 games can totally change the perception of their season. My point was simple, neither manager can use money as an excuse, they have both been supported to extreme levels and since they are among the best managers that should put them in very favorable positions against pretty much everyone not named Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, Bayern and eventually Chelsea.
Interestingly, City could lose every game till Feb and still be top.
 

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Neither deserve excuses, they both got the players they wanted and spent a fortune. They are both required to outrageously dominate the league.
No, not really. Jose stated that he needed a 4th player, and it was evident that he was right, he didn't get the 4th player. Then you need to keep in mind what both of them inherited and you can see that Jose's job was much more complex. And how the feck is someone required to dominate over others when you have Liverpool paying 75m for a CB and Chelsea spending more than us despite winning the league last season?
 

Oscie

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There's no reason to make excuses for Mourinho at all. We're greatly improved from last season under every relevant measure.
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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Good article,provides us with some much needed perspective.Although I agree that Mourinhos mood,or at least the face he puts on publicly isn't exactly helping us .He needs to be a bit more positive,he seems to be bitter and bored at every press conference....
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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I have been wondering the same. He is basically paid to write what has been said on the caf a lot of times.
"It could be better,but it could be much much worse".I know it's not much,but compared to some of the rubbish that we have to read,this is deeply enlightening!
 

Di Maria's angel

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Why excuses? I'm pointing out facts. And I agree that the facts you mention should be taken into account.
There are "fachts" that apply to United too.

To be completely honest, money spent just doesn't equal to success. We've seen that with LvG where spent millions upon millions yet regressed in his two year reign. There are many other factors that people fail to comprehend in our inability to keep within arms length of City. Many are mentioned here - the scatter gun transfer approach hasn't worked. Not only that, we're still heavily reliant on players coming to end of their careers - in Valencia, Young, Ibra and, though he hasn't played, Carrick. Partly Mourinho's fault but, to be honest, the first two have thoroughly deserved their place in the starting line up even though they're not as good as we need them to be. Mourinho also put his faith into some of our younger players - Martial, Rashford, Lingard but I think it's a little misplaced as none have shown themselves to be consistent enough. You could say Sane and Martial are quite similar in their development but Rashford in significantly inexperienced in comparison to Sterling who is, now, into his 6 full season as a PL player.

We have problems, so do they. They have handled theirs better and have procedures in place to ensure they don't feel the full effects of any potential problems.
 

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Yep that comment leaps out of the screen at you, not to them though unfortunately.
I'm pretty sure many of the so-called "entitled" fans would complain less if there was an apparent gradation in our football. Too many games where we look lost. It's not like we have a plan and it just doesn't work, we seem like we have no plan at all, especially when we go behind. Myself included, would not mind the current position if it wasn't for the clueless football we keep showing.
 

JPRouve

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Nah, the Pep arse licking extends beyond that.

Plus, they'd still be top with a very good record. Something like 19-1-4 (W-D-L) in still brilliant.
Honestly I don't give a shit about Pep, so if that's the extent of your reflection don't answer my posts.
 

Di Maria's angel

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Honestly I don't give a shit about Pep, so if that's the extent of your reflection don't answer my posts.
You got me wrong. I meant the media and everyone else concerned would still be up his arse to perceive them any different.
 

Andersons Dietician

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“And too many United fans need to lose their sense of entitlement.”

This comment, I absolutely hate it, we hear it from our own fans and now some journalist. These mugs completely miss the point, in all honesty i’m Not at all that fussed about being 2nd or feel a demand that we must win the title now.

(what makes it worse it’s what Jose was brought in to do and what all his acolytes used as his biggest selling point)

What we want to see is a gradual progression and something getting built that can hopefully in the near future be a proper force and be at least entertaining to watch other than building an anti football unit to spoil games.
Something that can put up a fight in a year or two and at least look like it knows how to play football unlike this thing we see now after 18 months that doesn’t look like it understands the principle of passing.

It’s horrendous and laughable to think this is arguably the most expensively assembled Sunday league team ever.

 

DomesticTadpole

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He's not spot on about Mourinho; he's spot on about the club.

We've been a garbled mess since the day Ferguson retired lacking in clarity, vision, and cohesion.
I agree it is the club that is a mess. The only plans they have is about making more money, unfortunately this does not involve the most important part of the club, the team. I have said a number of times that I felt they were signing players for their marketing value rather than if they fit in with the managers plans. As others have said the Perisic non-transfer is a case in point. Jose knew there was a problem out wide but they let him down. Also think we needed a second striker rather than a main striker. Now Lukaku is not delivering on the scale you would expect for that price, but Rashford and Martial are losing confidence. Funnily we seem to now relying on a player most on here deride and cost us nothing.

All this board wants is more money coming in through sponsors, they are even letting the stadium as well as the team run down. It is a risky game. Sponsors want to be connected with a successful club.
 

DomesticTadpole

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“And too many United fans need to lose their sense of entitlement.”

This comment, I absolutely hate it, we hear it from our own fans and now some journalist. These mugs completely miss the point, in all honesty i’m Not at all that fussed about being 2nd or feel a demand that we must win the title now.

(what makes it worse it’s what Jose was brought in to do and what all his acolytes used as his biggest selling point)

What we want to see is a gradual progression and something getting built that can hopefully in the near future be a proper force and be at least entertaining to watch other than building an anti football unit to spoil games.
Something that can put up a fight in a year or two and at least look like it knows how to play football unlike this thing we see now after 18 months that doesn’t look like it understands the principle of passing.

It’s horrendous and laughable to think this is arguably the most expensively assembled Sunday league team ever.
It doesn't bother me if we don't win the league, but we all want to see progress with regards our league position. What does bother me is that I cannot see what direction we are going in regarding style of play(actually I probably can and an not too happy with it). Is that Jose or is it the board not giving him the player he wants, but the ones they want to keep a certain agent happy? I will make no bones about the fact I wanted Morata not Lukaku. He is not the style of CF I would want at United, but we have him and I will always want him to do well. The fact we are desperate for another giant in Fellaini to stop is bothering me as well. I think you need to have a mixture of players. At the moment we are veering too near the slow and cumbersome line.
 

Bestietom

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Mourinho seems so grumpy all the time that I feel the players are even getting fed up with his moods. His New Years resolution should be to smile more, and try and look happy.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Sure it reflects the mood of plenty of people on here but as @Oscie said, it's a myth. Michael Owen pretty much eliminated all doubt when he admitted that we only signed him because Benzema turned us down for Madrid. The whole "value" thing was more about Fergie's issue with agents fees than some grand Glazer conspiracy – it's one of the main reasons why we didn't sign Robben, Lucas Moura or Hazard despite all those transfers looking like sure things.
So in hindsight does SAF have to take some of the blame for our problems through his stubborness?
 

dichinero

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No, not really. Jose stated that he needed a 4th player, and it was evident that he was right, he didn't get the 4th player. Then you need to keep in mind what both of them inherited and you can see that Jose's job was much more complex. And how the feck is someone required to dominate over others when you have Liverpool paying 75m for a CB and Chelsea spending more than us despite winning the league last season?
Well isn't that part of the problem? He's had 2 windows and has not assessed the squad well enough, which is disappointing for a man with all his PL experience. On the 2 occasions, he's said he wanted 4, he got 7/8 or 8/9 if you want to count Zlatan, and he would be happy with that. Anything else would be a bonus, he said.

Unfortunately, this 4th player didn't materialise in Perisic but if he really needed a 4th, should a man of his experience not have an alternative option? We bang on about Perisic being José's man but it didn't take much for Spaletti to convince him to remain in Inter over United. So unless José was confident that the player wanted to join us as with Matic, he gambled and failed there.

I'm not buying the lack of backing excuse. The club were happy to enter negotiations for Griezeman, who would have cost us an easy £100m had it not being for the ban Athletico Madrid had.

My opinion is that it is more like he badly misjudged the task at hand than the lack of backing. So him crying and playing the blame game is poor.

Liverpool are spending £75m dictated bt Soton because they are also in position to dictate the sale if Coutinho for over £120m, which also covers the purchase of Keita with some left over change. The game is the game and they are playing it. If José had shipped out players like Pep did, no one can begrudge for spending more money. It was his choice to keep and trust his goons. That is his prerogative and he's had to live with it.