Mitten bang on about Mourinho

[Home&Away]

So getting one of the most consistent strikers in the EPL for years and at the age of 24 with years left for him to develop even more is a wrong idea, because we instead of developing the team in general we should prioritise developing 2 youngsters, Great.

Even SAF wouldn't have done that.

That's your opinion & but as I said; right now the' one of the most consistent striker in the PL for years' seems like it happened as a result of Evertons & WBA ability to get the best out of him as a team.

And This is exactly what I said; Jose wants a whole building job to build a team around lukaku instead of utilising the players at his disposal because he is a manager with a very strict style of play & a very particular type of player.

Ps: plenty of managers & fans alike would have given time for Rashford & martial to develop as strikers rather than completely inhibit them in that role 24/7 by buying & never subbing/dropping lukaku regardless of form or the simples footballing abilities.

I'm not so sure if your comment about SAF is right either.

 

[Ramshock]

A couple more silly draws in the next month and we could find ourselves battling with Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal for a top 4 spot.

We are not guaranteed 2nd or 3rd, especially considering our usual drop in form at this period of the season. Even Matic recently hinted the players are feeling "tired", which is actually scary to hear for a club of our stature.

If my aunt was my uncle yada yada

 

[Seveneric]

Not that he said anything wrong, but it's like a combination of everything people have been saying for months. Basically a rehash with words in-between.

 

[diplomat]

If my aunt was my uncle yada yada

Thanks for your input, big man. It's shocking to have different opinions, isn't it?

 

[el3mel]

That's your opinion & but as I said; right now the' one of the most consistent striker in the PL for years' seems like it happened as a result of Evertons & WBA ability to get the best out of him as a team.

And This is exactly what I said; Jose wants a whole building job to build a team around lukaku instead of utilising the players at his disposal because he is a manager with a very strict style of play & a very particular type of player.

Ps: plenty of managers & fans alike would have given time for Rashford & martial to develop as strikers rather than completely inhibit them in that role 24/7 by buying & never subbing/dropping lukaku regardless of form or the simples footballing abilities.

I'm not so sure if your comment about SAF is right either.

Oh really ? In order to compete for the league you need to have a top striker up front scoring goals consistently.

SAF knew it better than anyone. We never entered a season to win the league without having a top class set of strikers to lead the line, while mixing them with some youngsters till they develop. We're talking about the manager who always entered the season while having 4 strikers at least at his disposal. When he got Rooney and Ronaldo as youngsters we had RVN leading the line. When both developed and become established players he added Tevez with them. He later on added Berbatov and Hernandez to the mix to keep our striker options refreshed. Even during his last year he got the best striker in the league ( RVP) to help us win the league, and RVP was the turning point for us during the whole season. You can develop youngsters as you want but you must have some world class strikers that perform week in, week out and keep scoring consistently. Playing 2 youngsters upfront that don't score more than 15 goals per season and you're asking for a solid 4th position battle.

When they develop enough to be able to lead the line and score +20 goals each season we can play them, otherwise, it's over confidence just because it looks good to play with youngsters while not winning anything. No top club will stop reinforcing itself in key positions as these just to develop 2 talents. Sorry.

It strikes me why some of our fans want us so bad to become the new Liverpool/Arsenal/Spurs.

 

[Fully Fledged]

If the whole problem is hiring managers of similar style we hardly need a DoF for that do we? We already have a board who decide who to hire, they should be able to choose managers of similar styles if thats all the DoF is going to do.

Then if we are only hiring similar style managers it negates the point of needing a DoF for transfers because they'll want the same types of players anyway.

But they haven't. We've gone from Moyes to LVG to Jose. There has been no consistency in the playing style of the managers we have hired since SAF.

 

[Fully Fledged]

If my aunt was my uncle yada yada

Is she?

 

[dirkey]

Though I expect us to finish 2nd you are right - we are drawing games left right & centre. Can't guarantee 2nd spot at all

4 draws in the league

 

[DomesticTadpole]

But they haven't. We've gone from Moyes to LVG to Jose. There has been no consistency in the playing style of the managers we have hired since SAF.

Correct. There has been no joined up thinking at all, just a lot of stumbling around.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Correct. There has been no joined up thinking at all, just a lot of stumbling around.

Which is why we need someone in control of football matters who can dictate a style of play and procure managers and players to fit that style.

 

[dirkey]

That's one way of looking at it.

Another is that we are 6 points off 6th and the season hasn't yet finished. On top, our recent games have been poor and are where we've lost point, hence why nobody was complaining when we were winning at the start of the season.
I am worried about the ditch we are in. Don't even have to mention the games where we were equally poor but managed to scrape a win.

This annoys me. We absolutely weren't poor in the last couple of games. We dominated both and should have won. We gave away stupid goals. But, in this stupid reactionary world, because we got a poor result, apparently the performances were poor. But, when we play poorly and win, it's not flipped around in the same way. It's the performance that matters there, not the result. This place is so glass empty at times.

 

[Home&Away]

Oh really ? In order to compete for the league you need to have a top striker up front scoring goals consistently.

SAF knew it better than anyone. We never entered a season to win the league without having a top class set of strikers to lead the line, while mixing them with some youngsters till they develop. We're talking about the manager who always entered the season while having 4 strikers at least at his disposal. When he got Rooney and Ronaldo as youngsters we had RVN leading the line. When both developed and become established players he added Tevez with them. He later on added Berbatov and Hernandez to the mix to keep our striker options refreshed. Even during his last year he got the best striker in the league ( RVP) to help us win the league, and RVP was the turning point for us during the whole season. You can develop youngsters as you want but you must have some world class strikers that perform week in, week out and keep scoring consistently. Playing 2 youngsters upfront that don't score more than 15 goals per season and you're asking for a solid 4th position battle.

When they develop enough to be able to lead the line and score +20 goals each season we can play them, otherwise, it's over confidence just because it looks good to play with youngsters while not winning anything. No top club will stop reinforcing itself in key positions as these just to develop 2 talents. Sorry.

It strikes me why some of our fans want us so bad to become the new Liverpool/Arsenal/Spurs.

But again we are waiting for lukaku to develop - he is a youngster & not the RVP from 2012 & he isn't rude van Nistelrooy.

You are saying that SAF would go with a full set of strikers & let the younger strikers develop & I agree. Meanwhile what I'm saying is lukaku is closer to the type of striker we should be waiting to develop rather than the one who can single handedly win us the title like RVP did. Lukaku is closer to being in the same basket as martial & Rashford to me rather than being up there with RVP, RVN etc

Lukaku even said at the start of his barren run that he isn't fully developed & asked for patience whilst he continues to improve; ie we should be letting him develop before leading the line to get 20+ goals because he sure as hell isn't doing anything right now.

When I said Jose should have focused on Rashford & Martial - it doesn't mean that we should go through a season with just 2 strikers. However It's inexcusable how Rashford or martial get a nitpicking of handful of games as a striker which shows:

A) negligence towards their ability to score a goal (plenty of times lukaku has had 90+mins to score a goal & yet it is martial coming on for Rashford etc when both are more likely to score a goal by themselves)
B) negligence to their progression: again not even a substitute appearance for Rashford at ST - I mean what the hell is the about; how is he supposed to progress as a striker
C) preference towards certain type of players: Jose likes strikers like lukaku & ibrahimpvic shown by how much of an automatic pick lukaku is & how zlatan comes straight in to ST position after & injury whilst Rashford & martial have been feeding for scraps on the same wing.

 

[el3mel]

But again we are waiting for lukaku to develop - he is a youngster & not the RVP from 2012 & he isn't rude van Nistelrooy.

You are saying that SAF would go with a full set of strikers & let the younger strikers develop & I agree. Meanwhile what I'm saying is lukaku is closer to the type of striker we should be waiting to develop rather than the one who can single handedly win us the title like RVP did. Lukaku is closer to being in the same basket as martial & Rashford to me rather than being up there with RVP, RVN etc

Lukaku even said at the start of his barren run that he isn't fully developed & asked for patience whilst he continues to improve; ie we should be letting him develop before leading the line to get 20+ goals because he sure as hell isn't doing anything right now.

When I said Jose should have focused on Rashford & Martial - it doesn't mean that we should go through a season with just 2 strikers. However It's inexcusable how Rashford or martial get a nitpicking of handful of games as a striker which shows:

A) negligence towards their ability to score a goal (plenty of times lukaku has had 90+mins to score a goal & yet it is martial coming on for Rashford etc when both are more likely to score a goal by themselves)
B) negligence to their progression: again not even a substitute appearance for Rashford at ST - I mean what the hell is the about; how is he supposed to progress as a striker
C) preference towards certain type of players: Jose likes strikers like lukaku & ibrahimpvic shown by how much of an automatic pick lukaku is & how zlatan comes straight in to ST position after & injury whilst Rashford & martial have been feeding for scraps on the same wing.

Lukaku is close to his 25 while Rashford is at 20 and Martial 22. He's closer to become the top striker we want than both Rashford and Martial and he'll reach his peak before both reach it by 3 years minimum. He's exactly at the same age we want him to be. Feels strange to complain about his age while you complained about getting old players as Matic who will need replacement 2 years later. 25-27 is the best age to get a top class striker in imo, especially when he's as consistent as Lukaku in scoring +25 goals per season these previous years. He's also more suited for the lone number 9 role than both, if he developed his ability to use his physicality better.

I can only agree about giving Rashford some sub appearances in last 20 minutes as a ST to rest Lukaku when the game is over, but otherwise, tbh he hasn't shown anything to prove he's the kind of striker that can lead the line from any aspect you may argue about, neither did Martial. Both aren't even that consistent in front of the goal when they get chances to score, with Martial slightly better than Rashford in that regard. Also It'll look ultra stupid as a manager when you're chasing a game you're drawing or losing to sub your top scorer and most consistent forward to put a youngster who hasn't been that consistent in front of the goal.

 

[Ramshock]

Thanks for your input, big man. It's shocking to have different opinions, isn't it?

Nah whats wrong is opinions based on impatience and entitlement that bother me

 

[Ramshock]

Though I expect us to finish 2nd you are right - we are drawing games left right & centre. Can't guarantee 2nd spot at all

four fecking draws for feck sake

 

[diplomat]

Nah whats wrong is opinions based on impatience and entitlement that bother me

Sorry to bother you then. Not sure how what I said classifies as impatient or being entitled, though.

I'm no saying it will happen, but just that it is a possibility, considering our recent form and our tendencies throughout the last few seasons to implode after a few bad results. If you don't agree, at least give a proper argument, instead of trying to intimidate me or wind me up with single-sentence answers.

 

[Ramshock]

Sorry to bother you then. Not sure how what I said classifies as impatient or being entitled, though.

I'm no saying it will happen, but just that it is a possibility, considering our recent form and our tendencies throughout the last few seasons to implode after a few bad results. If you don't agree, at least give a proper argument, instead of trying to intimidate me or wind me up with single-sentence answers.

I wasn't referring to you

 

[walkinhop]

This annoys me. We absolutely weren't poor in the last couple of games. We dominated both and should have won. We gave away stupid goals. But, in this stupid reactionary world, because we got a poor result, apparently the performances were poor. But, when we play poorly and win, it's not flipped around in the same way. It's the performance that matters there, not the result. This place is so glass empty at times.

It's easy to generalize, i've done it plenty. Seeing how we had no clue how to attack last match and just got the ball to a crossing position, i don't think domination is the right word.

 

[BluesJr]

It's easy to generalize, i've done it plenty. Seeing how we had no clue how to attack last match and just got the ball to a crossing position, i don't think domination is the right word.

Leicester I think was a good performance where we got very unlucky and were very childish. Burnley was very average and desperate though.

 

[walkinhop]

Leicester I think was a good performance where we got very unlucky and were very childish. Burnley was very average and desperate though.

I'm inclined to agree

 

[dirkey]

It's easy to generalize, i've done it plenty. Seeing how we had no clue how to attack last match and just got the ball to a crossing position, i don't think domination is the right word.

Hmm, maybe you're right i suppose. Though I feel, had most of the ball, and more good chances. Feels like domination to me, but with bad end product at times, ultimately undone by very bad defending.

 

[mike bird]

This annoys me. We absolutely weren't poor in the last couple of games. We dominated both and should have won. We gave away stupid goals. But, in this stupid reactionary world, because we got a poor result, apparently the performances were poor. But, when we play poorly and win, it's not flipped around in the same way. It's the performance that matters there, not the result. This place is so glass empty at times.

It annoys me too. Its not like we are playing poor, I have enjoyed most of our games. Yes, sometimes we cant string two passes together, but I m sure the longer the lads play together, the better will get. Most of the fans are xbox fans, never been inside, or outside the OT. They think because a player is good, must perform every single game. Thats not the case.

I said it from the beginning, I m not worried about the big six team games, I m worried about some small teams like Burnley or Stoke, who play like Barcelona when they play us, but when they play the other top 6 teams, they just concede goals like no tomorrow. It just pisses me off.

Give the team some time, with some good additions we will be flying, I am certain of this.

 

[deafepl]

It annoys me too. Its not like we are playing poor, I have enjoyed most of our games. Yes, sometimes we cant string two passes together, but I m sure the longer the lads play together, the better will get. Most of the fans are xbox fans, never been inside, or outside the OT. They think because a player is good, must perform every single game. Thats not the case.

I said it from the beginning, I m not worried about the big six team games, I m worried about some small teams like Burnley or Stoke, who play like Barcelona when they play us, but when they play the other top 6 teams, they just concede goals like no tomorrow. It just pisses me off.

Give the team some time, with some good additions we will be flying, I am certain of this.

That's how I feel like after a game before or after we face them, they get battered by Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea and City, I thought we would destroy Liverpool, Stoke, Huddersfield FC, Burnley and Bournemouth after their performance against top sides but instead we made them look like they're playing like Barcelona

 

[TimScoreboard]

Don't always agree with Mitten but that is a good article. The one below from Ogden is a decent read too.

Same here; I've crossed swords a few times with Andy over the years, particularly over his insistence that Moyes was the right man for us... but he's saying it as it is. We have got better and we have to get a lot better, if we are to achieve what we all want; but for that to happen, the club has to have a far better transfer policy, both buying and selling.

 

[walkinhop]

@dirkey How do you like this domination, hey?

 

[dirkey]

@dirkey How do you like this domination, hey?

Right. Let's bring it up for every single game from now on, a comment I made about a completely different game. Makes sense.

 

[walkinhop]

We were 6th and are now 2nd

and now 3rd...

 

[Slimcharles69]

Reasonable article. Frankly, I think a lot the tension could be eased up by Mourinho just being a little more relaxed and happier and not trying to be controversial in the press.

He just seems so absolutely bored and grumpy. He doesn't inspire confidence when you see him on the sidelines, he seems to hate it. He's never been a charmer that way but at least had a charisma about him. I don't see it any more.

Yeah I’m starting to see a couple of players Mourinho has gone after publicly really play within themselves. I’m sure his mood isn’t great for morale which is what I feared when we appointed him

 

[Ramshock]

and now 3rd...

You dont say

 

[walkinhop]

You dont say

I aint the one making points about league position before it's finished.

 

[Ramshock]

I aint the one making points about league position before it's finished.

I think you were

 

[walkinhop]

I think you were

"I'm pretty sure many of the so-called "entitled" fans would complain less if there was an apparent gradation in our football. Too many games where we look lost. It's not like we have a plan and it just doesn't work, we seem like we have no plan at all, especially when we go behind. Myself included, would not mind the current position if it wasn't for the clueless football we keep showing."
Think again

 

[Ramshock]

"I'm pretty sure many of the so-called "entitled" fans would complain less if there was an apparent gradation in our football. Too many games where we look lost. It's not like we have a plan and it just doesn't work, we seem like we have no plan at all, especially when we go behind. Myself included, would not mind the current position if it wasn't for the clueless football we keep showing."
Think again

Im pretty sure 3rd is progress over 6th.

 

[Chiken138]

I agree we need a director for transfers but City transfers by Txiki has been so bad. It only went good because guardiola started to whisper him what players to buy ( Sane, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Walker, Sterling)

 

[dirkey]

@dirkey How do you like this domination, hey?

No hilariously ironic post about the domination tonight I see.

 

[walkinhop]

No hilariously ironic post about the domination tonight I see.

I replied to you in another thread as well. His hand was forced today. Why didn't he change Lukaku earlier? Why didn't he free Pogba earlier? Don't tell me he it's all a coincidence and a part of his master plan. Again, no agenda here. Fair play for the Tottenham and Arsenal results as well as every other match he actually deserves credit. Today aint one of them.

 

[Paxi]

Neville is the one who goes out of his way trying to be unbiased or supporting English players. I just think Scholes says whats on his mind. I don't really think he gives a feck too much. He probably just wants United to do as well as they can as everyone else here.