Moise Kean | Everton player

Meep

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What an unsympathetic action. First the sub, then turning his back towards Kean when he is coming off. I dislike people that show no understanding of other peoples feelings, especially when being a so-called, coach. That style of leadership is luckily outdated. I don't think he will be successful with that disgusting coaching style. Hope they go down to championship and come back with a better coach.
 

Seaman

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What an unsympathetic action. First the sub, then turning his back towards Kean when he is coming off. I dislike people that show no understanding of other peoples feelings, especially when being a so-called, coach. That style of leadership is luckily outdated. I don't think he will be successful with that disgusting coaching style. Hope they go down to championship and come back with a better coach.
I think he wanted to play to the Everton fans to show them how he takes no crap. But it’s beyond stupid. They spent huge money on him and instead of helping him he chooses to throw him under the bus. Funny thing is niasse had 3 touche and 2 fouls and did nothing
 

Doracle

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I thought that was shocking by Ferguson. Fair enough to decide to take him off (although I didn’t think personally it was warranted) but it’s a young kid who looks low in confidence, so put an arm around him and explain the decision briefly. Blanking him was very poor.
 

debunkology

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What an unsympathetic action. First the sub, then turning his back towards Kean when he is coming off. I dislike people that show no understanding of other peoples feelings, especially when being a so-called, coach. That style of leadership is luckily outdated. I don't think he will be successful with that disgusting coaching style. Hope they go down to championship and come back with a better coach.
Ferguson is not stupid. Kean wasn't happy with the substitute, and had Ferguson tried to put his arm around him, Kean most likely would have shunned him. Which would make the situation 10x worse.

Just like when Sky interviewed Ferguson before the game and insinuated he was going for 3-5-2. Ferguson just went along with what they said and played 4-4-2 and Holgate in midfield instead. He didnt lie to them, he just let them talk.

Just like when Sky interviewed him after the game about Kean. He said it was just to waste time. When it blatantly wasn:t. Looking at the stats, the striker he brought in place of Kean, done more in 3 minutes than Keane did in 19 minutes he was on.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I checked on reddit and it seems Evertons fans are very supportive with the decision. Bizarre imo.

Fact is that when I saw Kean was about to came on, I'm not really sure what was the plan there. Why bring players especially forward who are not well known with his work rate or hold up play when you were winning 1-0. I can understand if they are 1-0 behind and bring Kean on but to defend a lead is stupidly risky decision from the manager and he realised that he made mistake and made another subs.

If there is anyone to blamed is has to be the manager for bringing the wrong player that doesn't suit the task. The price for that decision is that he could destroy the young lad confidence. In addition the manager showed zero sympathy or care when the player came off.
 

PieCrust

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I don't understand the outrage. A sub got subbed. So what? It's professional football and these thing can happen. He wasn't good enough and the manager, while trying to get a result, took him off the pitch. He's well within his rights to make that change and it's something the player should use as motivation to improve; not pout about it and look for sympathy.

To me the bigger issue would be that it's clear Kean is not up to playing in the PL currently, so why put him on the pitch in the first place? That's the bigger shame, that the manger hasn't adequately judged his capability and readiness to play. I don't fault him for correcting the mistake during the match however. In fact at that point, it's his obligation to do so.
 

BarstoolProphet

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Probably just Big Dunc mixing Kean with Niasse in the first place and he "corrected" it when he noticed.
 

debunkology

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I don't understand the outrage. A sub got subbed. So what? It's professional football and these thing can happen. He wasn't good enough and the manager, while trying to get a result, took him off the pitch. He's well within his rights to make that change and it's something the player should use as motivation to improve; not pout about it and look for sympathy.
I don't get it either, the kid is 19 years old on a 3 million a year contract. He's paid ridiculous money, he wasn't good enough, he got subbed. Move on. This "entitlement" of the modern era just creates spoilt brats.
 

King7Eric

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I don't know if Ferguson was ever really a serious candidate to get the job on a permanent basis, but he certainly snuffed out any chance he might have had with that substitution. No owners are going to be happy seeing one of their most expensive assets treated that way, especially when he hadn't done something abominable.
 

arthurka

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I don't get it either, the kid is 19 years old on a 3 million a year contract. He's paid ridiculous money, he wasn't good enough, he got subbed. Move on. This "entitlement" of the modern era just creates spoilt brats.
You just wrote it there 19 years of age in a new country and struggling. Even if he gets paid a lot of money he is still young and having difficulties adjusting to living in England, if Ferguson didn´t trust him he shouldn´t have brought him on simple as. Terrible man management to say the least.
 

TheReligion

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I don't understand the outrage. A sub got subbed. So what? It's professional football and these thing can happen. He wasn't good enough and the manager, while trying to get a result, took him off the pitch. He's well within his rights to make that change and it's something the player should use as motivation to improve; not pout about it and look for sympathy.

To me the bigger issue would be that it's clear Kean is not up to playing in the PL currently, so why put him on the pitch in the first place? That's the bigger shame, that the manger hasn't adequately judged his capability and readiness to play. I don't fault him for correcting the mistake during the match however. In fact at that point, it's his obligation to do so.
It happens very rarely and when it does it's always a talking point. Not sure why you're so surprised.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I don't get it either, the kid is 19 years old on a 3 million a year contract. He's paid ridiculous money, he wasn't good enough, he got subbed. Move on. This "entitlement" of the modern era just creates spoilt brats.
Not really. Leadership I'd about knowing when to harsh and when to show compassion. But also, nearly always being capable of communicating your message. In this instance, he's a money signing Everton have made, and hence important. At the same he is a young boy - a teenager? - who has come to a new country and all the support he can get at an important and difficult phase of his career.

For your reference you have best example in SAF. Despite his bullish and authoritarian side (when needed), he was at the end of the day brilliant at treating people depending on the need of the hour. There's numerous stories on how behind the aggressive exterior the players loved him because of how he handled them - with respect and class, and when required ,with sternness.
 

amolbhatia50k

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And really it appeared weird because a young sub got subbed and then blanked by the manager. Was definitely odd.
 

Gio

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Ferguson is not stupid. Kean wasn't happy with the substitute, and had Ferguson tried to put his arm around him, Kean most likely would have shunned him. Which would make the situation 10x worse.
Aye. At this early state of his tenure Ferguson cannot risk a public spat, which would have been quite possible here. Ultimately we have no idea how it has been managed behind the scenes so I can only reserve judgement on the issue.
 

Andersonson

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I checked on reddit and it seems Evertons fans are very supportive with the decision. Bizarre imo.

Fact is that when I saw Kean was about to came on, I'm not really sure what was the plan there. Why bring players especially forward who are not well known with his work rate or hold up play when you were winning 1-0. I can understand if they are 1-0 behind and bring Kean on but to defend a lead is stupidly risky decision from the manager and he realised that he made mistake and made another subs.

If there is anyone to blamed is has to be the manager for bringing the wrong player that doesn't suit the task. The price for that decision is that he could destroy the young lad confidence. In addition the manager showed zero sympathy or care when the player came off.
It's not bizarre. Its about getting points or maybe a win. Everton had a 1-1 draw and Kean's game could've ruined it.

He was terrible and making alot of fouls. Even though its terrible for a young player it was the right call. Everton needed that point.
 

Cassidy

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It's not bizarre. Its about getting points or maybe a win. Everton had a 1-1 draw and Kean's game could've ruined it.

He was terrible and making alot of fouls. Even though its terrible for a young player it was the right call. Everton needed that point.
Indeed Niasse was excellent when he came on...
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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It's not bizarre. Its about getting points or maybe a win. Everton had a 1-1 draw and Kean's game could've ruined it.

He was terrible and making alot of fouls. Even though its terrible for a young player it was the right call. Everton needed that point.
It was bizarre because almost no one Everton fans to even criticised the manager to even bring him on. You were 1-0 up and you brought on a player that likely going to lose you possession Kean. Just doesn’t make sense. If the manager was never dare to risk it then bring on Kean should had never be a choice.
 

UpWithRivers

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Yes the manager has the right to take off whoever he wants but it is a given in football that a sub being subbed is saying to that player you are a load of sht. Its an insult. In that context you should be very careful when you sub the sub especially with a young player low on confidence. And if you really have to then shake his hand as he goes off, apologize and say good game its not personal. Just wasting time. Or something.
 

Still ill

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For all those who 'don't get' the fuss, we've all been in situations where we've witnessed a humiliation. Possibly even been at the receiving end. School, work, whatever. Generally inflicted by someone with power on someone without. Have you ever seen it having a positive effect on the person on the receiving end? Kean has been a massive investment on the part of his employers. Is he coming back from this? I don't know. The shut up and get on with it school of thought bores me. Players, for all their faults, are human beings the same as ourselves. Humiliation on this scale for a young guy already struggling is pretty inexcusable. Selling it as the only action possible to save the game for Everton is an absolute nonsense. I'd buy it only if Kean was acting in an unprofessional way, taking the piss but he clearly wasn't. Stupid move.
 

Annihilate Now!

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https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/do-fine

Just stop. You were wrong, happens, apologies accepted, move on.
Complete aside to the thread - but to me, "fine" means not terrible (unless my wife says it - in which case it's definitely terrible), where as "well" would be pretty good

Basically, if someone told me at work that I'd done "fine" on job one, and then told me i'd done "well" on job 2 - i'd know i performed better on job 2.

No idea why i'm contributing this pointless bit of info - but hey-ho
 

PieCrust

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It happens very rarely and when it does it's always a talking point. Not sure why you're so surprised.
Agree it happens rarely, and I've addressed that in my point about a manager making a poor decision about the player's ability and readiness to play.

We're probably in agreement that the manager is at fault. We'll just disagree in the timing of it, i.e., should have never brought him on in the first place vice taking him off.
 

Vidyoyo

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At the end of the day though, he's 19. It's terrible man management not acknowledging him when he came off, which is precisely why Dunc will never in a million, billion years make a good manager.
 

LVGSdive

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At the end of the day though, he's 19. It's terrible man management not acknowledging him when he came off, which is precisely why Dunc will never in a million, billion years make a good manager.
Man management is different for every person/player. It's well documented that Fergie managed every player differently depending on what motivated them or was their personality.

Maybe Kean needs tough love.
 

McGrathsipan

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Man management is different for every person/player. It's well documented that Fergie managed every player differently depending on what motivated them or was their personality.

Maybe Kean needs tough love.
Fergie had double standards when it suited the cause.

Keane and Cantona spring to mind. Players were ousted for less.

Kean is only a kid in a foreign country.
He didn't need to be humiliated.

Id have told D Ferguson to fcuk off.
 

Vidyoyo

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Man management is different for every person/player. It's well documented that Fergie managed every player differently depending on what motivated them or was their personality.

Maybe Kean needs tough love.
Certainly could be. I guess time will tell but I found what he did a bit hard to swallow. Moise looked devastated.
 
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SalfordRed18

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Big Dunc using a kid to make himself feel bigger and the game all about him.

Regardless of whether he's good enough or not, I would have marched right down the tunnel, got my shit, and got the Uber home.
 

FootballHQ

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Was randomly thinking, didn't this actually happen to Mata once? Much older but still a bit wierd for a senior pro and one of the best players at the club (as he was at the time).
 

charlenefan

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Was randomly thinking, didn't this actually happen to Mata once? Much older but still a bit wierd for a senior pro and one of the best players at the club (as he was at the time).
Yep Community Sheild v Leicester in Mourinho's first competitive game

Did nothing to quell the rumours that he'd try and sell Mata for the 2nd time that
 

FootballHQ

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Yep Community Sheild v Leicester in Mourinho's first competitive game

Did nothing to quell the rumours that he'd try and sell Mata for the 2nd time that
Ah thought it was actually a league game. More subs in community shield.

I too thought that at the time but seems Mourinho and Mata had much better working relationship than they did at Chelsea.
 

Kostov

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That was one shocking man management decision by Duncan Ferguson. He ruined the kid's confidence in 10 seconds. Lost a lot of respect for the guy, personally.
 

Samid

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Moise Kean is likely to face disciplinary action from Everton after the striker has broken strict Coronavirus lockdown rules and hosted a raunchy lockdown party at his home.

Video clips were sent to a private Snapchat group showing women touching male guests’ crotches while others lap danced. The footage was captioned “quarantine clean”.
 

yumtum

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And this is why BCD football probably wont work, there are a lot of daft/inconsiderate players - do we have to test their friends and hookers before we can start football too?
 

United58

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And this is why BCD football probably wont work, there are a lot of daft/inconsiderate players - do we have to test their friends and hookers before we can start football too?
A lot of them - most of them - are 10 year olds in adult's bodies. Every aspect of their life has been looked after for them by someone else since they were very young, so many have no sense of reality. Tevez's house used to be an absolute tip when he lived in Manchester, he didn't clean anything, and apparently Firmino blows his paychecks every week, with no thought for the future. Seemingly most players are quite nuts - just look at the antics of the likes of Gibson and Rooney
 

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