More goals in woman's football because women feel more?

[jojojo]

More than 20 000 people attended the recent United v Everton match at Old Trafford, while more than 90 000 attended El Clasico. Some of them probably had a good time.

Barcelona have sold out the Camp Nou for their CL SF against Wolfsburg as well. Which seems to confirm that some of them enjoyed it.

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Incidentally, last night's NI-England match in Belfast had more than 15,000 fans (they sold out the stadium). A lot will have gone home disappointed, but hopefully some of them will be back to watch, and others will want to see the team in the Euros, at least on TV.

 

[Mb194dc]

Is there any factual basis to what he's saying about two goals being conceded in quick succession happening very often ?

 

[Gio]

Wonder what his excuse was when his Morton side were hammered 10-2 by Hamilton Accies in 2014.

 

[Deery]

He’s apologised already at least, for what it’s worth he does seem to have a decent relationship with the girls, from what I’ve seen..

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[decorativeed]

I'm finding so many stories in the press at the moment have a parallel with stuff I've encounted at work recently. There's just awful leadership everywhere you look. This guy Kenny Shiels with his sexist bullshit, Boris Johnson with his lockdown flouting, the P&O ferries boss happy to break the law to save a few quid.

I worked in somewhere on the perhipheries of the football industry, with connections to the FA and the PFA. I complained that my CEO had made comments about my female colleagues - calling them 'emotional' whenever they asked a difficult question, excluding them from meetings, saying he didn't listen to them because they were women, making one of them go to a cafe with him because he wanted to have a private off-site meeting with them desite it being against covid rules, and - as I've mentioned on here recently - not sticking to company policy when making people redundant. The reason for the last one is that he didn't want to consult with our manager, a woman.

An investigation into this led to several of us explaining why these things were sexist, and resulted in less than a slap on the wrist, and a promise to make things better in future by doing events on International Women's Day. His language was dismissed as 'Not ideal, but not sexist', and - like Trump following his failed impeachement - only emboldened him to continue this behaviour. I feel like I'm living in two parallel worlds.

 

[WeePat]

Shiels comment aside, but who is really enoying woman’s football? I‘d rather watch sunday league games. I‘d even argue the niveau is higher.

Lots of people do. What a silly thing to ask. Barca women recently attracted more than 90K fans. Watch that Barca team if you get a chance. They play exquisite football.

 

[MichaelRed]

Do they still use full size goals in womens football?

 

[Trequarista10]

It’s nonsensical to have full-sized goals in female football, unless you have the same height of keeper as the men’s game, the keeper’s in female football are always doomed from the outset and would have to be better than their male counterparts to achieve the same defensive records.

True. I did some digging into this subject a few years ago when Joey Barton made some comments about it (and was widely called a sexist).

My take:

- Goals should be slightly smaller. Purely based on size, average reach etc. Not too much smaller, but enough that a keeper has a decent chance of saving a shot that is slowly looping top corner bound from 30 yards.

- Pitches should be the same size. I disagree with the argument that pitches should be smaller because women are smaller than men. I think it's too the advantage of the women's game. Men's pitches are arguably too small now, given the increased athleticism of players over the years, general increased height of population, plus the offside rule, a team can park the bus and be difficult to break down, and this is amplified on a small pitch. And you cant make men's pitches bigger given the stadiums they are already in. For the women's game, having pitches which are essentially/comparatively bigger means more open games, more goals.

- Balls should be smaller. This is the seemingly controversial one, but there are some studies that show that the average female footballer is considerably taller than the average female, whereas in men's football, the difference between average height of players to general male population is negligible. The theory is, given a correlation between height and foot size, many shorter women have feet that are too small to manipulate a football in the same way. So, by having a slightly smaller ball, more women would have the opportunity to play at the top level, whereas currently a large % are blocked simply by their size. Part of why the mens game is so great is that virtually every size and build can play and make it to the top level, whereas in the women's game, it's much more restrictive currently.

 

[Welsh Wonder]

Oh my god, they killed Kenny

 

[Fortitude]

True. I did some digging into this subject a few years ago when Joey Barton made some comments about it (and was widely called a sexist).

My take:

- Goals should be slightly smaller. Purely based on size, average reach etc. Not too much smaller, but enough that a keeper has a decent chance of saving a shot that is slowly looping top corner bound from 30 yards.

- Pitches should be the same size. I disagree with the argument that pitches should be smaller because women are smaller than men. I think it's too the advantage of the women's game. Men's pitches are arguably too small now, given the increased athleticism of players over the years, general increased height of population, plus the offside rule, a team can park the bus and be difficult to break down, and this is amplified on a small pitch. And you cant make men's pitches bigger given the stadiums they are already in. For the women's game, having pitches which are essentially/comparatively bigger means more open games, more goals.

- Balls should be smaller. This is the seemingly controversial one, but there are some studies that show that the average female footballer is considerably taller than the average female, whereas in men's football, the difference between average height of players to general male population is negligible. The theory is, given a correlation between height and foot size, many shorter women have feet that are too small to manipulate a football in the same way. So, by having a slightly smaller ball, more women would have the opportunity to play at the top level, whereas currently a large % are blocked simply by their size. Part of why the mens game is so great is that virtually every size and build can play and make it to the top level, whereas in the women's game, it's much more restrictive currently.

Interesting stuff. The last one re. balls. At what age do boys exclusively use a full-sized ball? It’s not something I’ve ever considered, but it does sound like something that research should be done on.

As far as I see it, there’s absolutely no shame in modifying the game to better suit the participants. The game as we know it was made purely for men, and I think that shows when watching some of unavoidable occurrences in the female game where shorter keepers simply cannot legislate for scenarios that unfold and look ‘comical’ because people don’t look any deeper than seeing a keeper with supposedly poor positioning because they have to pre-empt actions before they unfold to compensate for the size disadvantage.

 

[jojojo]

The big issue with messing with goal sizes etc is that access to football training and matchday sites is already difficult for women's teams. Sure, United etc can do it but most women's teams just don't have the cash to do it.

Move that into a global scale and the women's game across most of the world will get pushed out of its current "that awkward timeslot that no one else wanted" into nowhere to train, or a bodge up for pitch markings, goalposts etc.

Beyond that - no one who watches women's football is actually bothered by a striker smacking the ball into the top corner, they deserve the goal. The things that people care about (mostly watching international football, not pro club football) are the lack of trained goalkeeping coaches in girls and even women's football and the relatively unskilled/inexperienced keepers that some countries have to rely on.

Handling errors, misjudgements etc can kill some of the lower ranked teams before they even get started. Plus, of course, they look awful when it happens on TV

 

[Lord SInister]

So why aren't people in power position changing the size of the goal for women football? Like yes men and women should be treated equal, but that doesn't mean we should overlook different in tangibles and not go with what is just and not just quality.

 

[tothetop96]

Why is it always the women should decrease goal size? I think men's game should increase goal size. Usually only 2 or 3 goals in an entire match. Average height of keepers and people in general has risen massively. Bigger goals = more goals = more exciting in my opinion. Best matches always have 4/5/6 goals - e.g. Real v Chelsea last night.

 

[padr81]

This argument of women being more emotional is daft on so many levels, when men keep losing their heads over things and reacting in a worse manner.

I made this same point earlier today on twitter and was told I was wrong. "Men get angry but women get emotional"

 

[sullydnl]

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[Lynty]

Maybe he was trying to give a tactful excuse for the genral shit defending in the womens game

 

[kouroux]

Why is it always the women should decrease goal size? I think men's game should increase goal size. Usually only 2 or 3 goals in an entire match. Average height of keepers and people in general has risen massively. Bigger goals = more goals = more exciting in my opinion. Best matches always have 4/5/6 goals - e.g. Real v Chelsea last night.

It's not that automatic, more goals doesn't mean better games necessarily

 

[Myopic Gary Roberts]

In a generation there’ll be enough ex-players to manage in the womens game

 

[oates]

There are only 50 tickets left on sale to the Arsenal Women vs, Chelsea Women WFA Cup semi-final on Sunday. They haven't asked for the goals to be any smaller. Tremendous support instead!

 

[jojojo]

Just in case anyone was wondering about the stats...

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[Bobski]

There are only 50 tickets left on sale to the Arsenal Women vs, Chelsea Women WFA Cup semi-final on Sunday. They haven't asked for the goals to be any smaller. Tremendous support instead!

Pretty poor game so far, 0-0 at HT, forgive me if there is another thread discussing this game.

 

[Sandikan]

And there was me thinking it was just because they are rubbish goalkeepers.

Or at least because there's more space on the pitch as the average height and size of players is so much less.

 

[Bobski]

Women's football is weird, some moments of genuine quality and high level technique, then some dumpster fire level stuff. We just had a bit of play were Arsenal had the ball in their own box, were passing it like they were doing a rondo within the box then one of the CB's tried to clumsily dribble out, got caught, Chelsea should have scored. Been a few instances of stupid play like that in today's game.

Watched a few games this year on BBC2, and the level has without doubt improved from say, 10 years ago, but the gap between the better players and the weakest is far higher than you would get in the men's games.

 

[jojojo]

Women's football is weird, some moments of genuine quality and high level technique, then some dumpster fire level stuff. We just had a bit of play were Arsenal had the ball in their own box, were passing it like they were doing a rondo within the box then one of the CB's tried to clumsily dribble out, got caught, Chelsea should have scored. Been a few instances of stupid play like that in today's game.

Watched a few games this year on BBC2, and the level has without doubt improved from say, 10 years ago, but the gap between the better players and the weakest is far higher than you would get in the men's games.

Yeah, I'd agree with you on that gap between the best and the others. It's most noticeable at the international level, but you can see it in some League matches as well.

Part and parcel of where it's at in terms of development really. In the big European leagues we're seeing the first teams composed of full-time pros - most were amateur/semipro 5 years ago. In England, the under 25s are really the first group who trained with qualified coaches at the under 18 level.

In the English WSL, the big three (Arsenal, Chelsea, City) are able to dominate most matches. Their budgets and infrastructures are built to win and at this level that means they can hire international stars versus teams who can't afford hotel accommodation before away games etc.

It's wrong to make it sound like it's all about money, particularly in England where new money (broadcasters and sponsors) is arriving every year - but it's a big factor, and it'll take time.

Meanwhile - Chelsea/Arsenal pretty flat game today and I'm not sure why, they've had better matches this season.

 

[Mb194dc]

Just in case anyone was wondering about the stats...

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Totally fails to answer his point which was the second goal comes more quickly after the first. For whatever reason.

Have to say, never watched a full game in Women's football so no idea if any basis or not.

 

[Matthew84!]

Shiels comment aside, but who is really enoying woman’s football? I‘d rather watch sunday league games. I‘d even argue the niveau is higher.

Well the average attendance for the WSL is 2000 so its not very popular unless its a big game and the revenue is tiny, my local has a bigger attendance and its a conference south side

 

[NotThatSoph]

Barcelona have sold out the Camp Nou for their CL SF against Wolfsburg as well. Which seems to confirm that some of them enjoyed it.

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Incidentally, last night's NI-England match in Belfast had more than 15,000 fans (they sold out the stadium). A lot will have gone home disappointed, but hopefully some of them will be back to watch, and others will want to see the team in the Euros, at least on TV.

I've watched Graham Larsen quite a bit for the Norwegian team, and when she's on form she's crazy. The ball control is almost magical. I should really watch some Barcelona games to see how she plays with better teammates.

 

[jojojo]

Totally fails to answer his point which was the second goal comes more quickly after the first. For whatever reason.

Have to say, never watched a full game in Women's football so no idea if any basis or not.

He was just talking bollocks. The first goal in that match was at 26 minutes, the second at 52, then at 60, 72, 79. They just lost to a much stronger team - not every match ends with the underdog battling to a glorious result. Though as it happens, his team of underdogs have qualified for this summer's Euros - having got results against higher rated teams.

 

[Withnail]

Just in case anyone was wondering about the stats...

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Ha

 

[buchansleftleg]

Thank goodness Bayern Munich's players got all "emotional" at the idea of winning the champions league in 1999.

When you've lost 5-0.....stop digging!

It can only be a matter of time before he is sacked for these comments. No player is going to respect him after making such outdated comments and he is only going to draw negative attention to the team from now on.

This feels like something from the 80's when black players were deemed to offer "creativity" and "pace" up front but their mentality/athleticism/intelligence was questioned if they played in defence.