How do you propose to hypnotise those 2 clubs into doing that?
Morgan Rogers
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
I don't want to get involved in this but did the other poster really say Rogers is a better dribbler than the" jaw dropping to watch, so wish he was a Utd player" Kvaratskhelia?
If so wow. Just tune into the Bayern and PSG game that's on right now, watch Kvaratskhelia and repent.
Sarcasm is generally fine but if there is a pattern of the sarcasm being condescending and arrogant then yes, it will be policed because it creates a negative and poor forum/debating environment.
Sometimes it's better to just agree to disagree, especially if there is a contrast in how people decide to view and enjoy football. Not everyone will be hyper focused and tuned into stats despite them being a way of understanding football more fluently nowadays. The eye test is still of value and a way people will form and have their opinions. If their evidence is the eye test then yes, unfortunately it will be a case of 'trust me bro' and if you disagree then you can instead choose to ignore or disagree instead of being sarcastic or condescending perhaps.
I’m not sure if there is any stats on it, but what impress me the most about him physically is the number of sprints he makes.
He has that sort of Diaz intensity when he has the ball, seems to go at 100mph, but seems to have good control of it.
Ehh, I do think you're somewhat over-simplifying things here by calling Trossard, Martinelli and Eze "3 right-footed cut-inside and shoot merchants".
For some reason, the image quality from Scout Lab has turned out pretty horrendously when I've tried to copy them across here but I do think these do quite a nice job of showcasing the differences in how they play. In each image, a mark indicates an instance during the 2025/26 season where a player has attempted a take-on and where on the pitch the take-on was attempted. Green stars indicate that it was successful, red crosses that it wasn't. Teams are assumed to attack from left-to-right.
First, here's Trossard:
Now Eze:
Finally, Martinelli:
I think from these images it's quite evident that, of the three, Trossard is the wide-player who "stretches the play" the most for Arsenal. His take-ons are concentrated in the wide areas, demonstrating that he sticks to the left-flank and commits the opposition's right-side to either leave him free out wide or stretch themselves to close him down. Eze seems to cut in earlier on a much more routine basis, which is entirely consistent with what you see from him when you watch him play for Arsenal. I am aware his map will be skewed by the fact that Arteta sometimes uses him as an attacking midfielder anyway but the point stands, I think, that he doesn't stretch the play nearly as much as Trossard. Martinelli, meanwhile, completes much more of his take-ons near the centre of the opposition box. This is again consistent with what I'd expect just from watching him; of the three players he's by far the most like a "wide forward".
The reason I bring all of this up is that it touches on a point of discussion you and I had in a different thread where I expressed my reservations about signing Rogers, despite thinking he's a fantastic player. If I know put the same maps of Rogers and Cunha side-by-side:
Cunha:
Rogers:
I think these show that neither Rogers nor Cunha will "stretch the play", if that makes sense. Both of their maps are most similar in profile to that of Eze's from the Arsenal examples. My point of view is that United would probably benefit from bringing in a wide player more in the Trossard mould on the left, since in matches where the opposition are able to effectively congest the centre I think it can be very handy to have a wide player who will stretch the play by sticking to their flank and beating players out wide with consistency. Doku at City is perhaps the best example of this in the Premier League that I can think of. Whilst his raw output isn't always that impressive, I doubt you'd find many City fans arguing that he's not an extremely valuable asset to their attack given the trouble he causes opposition full-backs. I'm not quite sure Rogers has that in his game, and since Cunha also doesn't offer it consistently out left it is something I'd ideally like to add to our left-flank this summer if we do make a signing there. If you weren't tired enough of them already - I've provided Doku's map below as well for reference. The volume of take-ons he makes, and completes, from wide areas is just freakish.
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Unfortunately I couldnt see the images, but totally agree with your point.Ehh, I do think you're somewhat over-simplifying things here by calling Trossard, Martinelli and Eze "3 right-footed cut-inside and shoot merchants".
For some reason, the image quality from Scout Lab has turned out pretty horrendously when I've tried to copy them across here but I do think these do quite a nice job of showcasing the differences in how they play. In each image, a mark indicates an instance during the 2025/26 season where a player has attempted a take-on and where on the pitch the take-on was attempted. Green stars indicate that it was successful, red crosses that it wasn't. Teams are assumed to attack from left-to-right.
First, here's Trossard:
Now Eze:
Finally, Martinelli:
I think from these images it's quite evident that, of the three, Trossard is the wide-player who "stretches the play" the most for Arsenal. His take-ons are concentrated in the wide areas, demonstrating that he sticks to the left-flank and commits the opposition's right-side to either leave him free out wide or stretch themselves to close him down. Eze seems to cut in earlier on a much more routine basis, which is entirely consistent with what you see from him when you watch him play for Arsenal. I am aware his map will be skewed by the fact that Arteta sometimes uses him as an attacking midfielder anyway but the point stands, I think, that he doesn't stretch the play nearly as much as Trossard. Martinelli, meanwhile, completes much more of his take-ons near the centre of the opposition box. This is again consistent with what I'd expect just from watching him; of the three players he's by far the most like a "wide forward".
The reason I bring all of this up is that it touches on a point of discussion you and I had in a different thread where I expressed my reservations about signing Rogers, despite thinking he's a fantastic player. If I know put the same maps of Rogers and Cunha side-by-side:
Cunha:
Rogers:
I think these show that neither Rogers nor Cunha will "stretch the play", if that makes sense. Both of their maps are most similar in profile to that of Eze's from the Arsenal examples. My point of view is that United would probably benefit from bringing in a wide player more in the Trossard mould on the left, since in matches where the opposition are able to effectively congest the centre I think it can be very handy to have a wide player who will stretch the play by sticking to their flank and beating players out wide with consistency. Doku at City is perhaps the best example of this in the Premier League that I can think of. Whilst his raw output isn't always that impressive, I doubt you'd find many City fans arguing that he's not an extremely valuable asset to their attack given the trouble he causes opposition full-backs. I'm not quite sure Rogers has that in his game, and since Cunha also doesn't offer it consistently out left it is something I'd ideally like to add to our left-flank this summer if we do make a signing there. If you weren't tired enough of them already - I've provided Doku's map below as well for reference. The volume of take-ons he makes, and completes, from wide areas is just freakish.
Are you able to check Rogers positioning for LW exclusively?
I ran the eye test on him with some highlights and he has a fair few examples of action on left side of area, trying a cross or charging into the box and hitting a shot - more Martinelli?
Bizarre how many are fully behind this signing.
Probably the most overrated player in the league. His overall game is genuinely shite.
Probably the most overrated player in the league. His overall game is genuinely shite.
Well that's fantastic - it'd appear the image links I got from the ScoutLab website only worked for me when putting the post together. I can't see them now either!
I'll have to see if I can figure out how to sort it when I get back from work later.You do make a valid point in that there is, unfortunately, no way that I know of to filter by position. Accordingly, players like Eze and Rogers will have maps which looks different as a natural consequence of the fact that they're played in multiple positions. However, what Rogers' map did show is that he doesn't complete as many take-ons near the left touchline as someone like Trossard (and nowhere near Doku). This is especially true when you look at the more advanced areas down the left flank.
You'll just have to to trust me when I say that's what the pictures show!
You could try and use the snip tool on your pc and then upload them to imgbb and share them from there.Well that's fantastic - it'd appear the image links I got from the ScoutLab website only worked for me when putting the post together. I can't see them now either!
You do make a valid point in that there is, unfortunately, no way that I know of to filter by position. Accordingly, players like Eze and Rogers will have maps which looks different as a natural consequence of the fact that they're played in multiple positions. However, what Rogers' map did show is that he doesn't complete as many take-ons near the left touchline as someone like Trossard (and nowhere near Doku). This is especially true when you look at the more advanced areas down the left flank.
You'll just have to to trust me when I say that's what the pictures show!
Firstly, your images don't work.
Secondly, as per the reasonable point AkaAkuma makes - this will include and be distorted by the fact Rogers has been asked to play AM for Villa at times this season. It is not necessarily indicative of him not being able to sufficiently stretch play when on the LW. He plays LW a bit less often, so obviously his overall volume will be less - but they still seem to exist when he does play there.
Your choice of measure also seems rather cherry-picked. If you rather look at Rogers' 'Threatening Action Heatmap' for this season, they tend to start on what is very much the left-flank. and often result in him getting close to the by-line.
If you look at his 'Progressive and Threatening Actions' map, you will also still see plenty of instances of him both running to the by-line, and also passing the ball back across the box.
He does have a fair few examples of action on the left side of the area... See below:
I am seemingly yet to master the apparently subtle art of putting images in a forum post! In my defence, it was half 11 last night when I posted that and I should've been asleep.Firstly, your images don't work.
Secondly, as per the reasonable point AkaAkuma makes - this will include and be distorted by the fact Rogers has been asked to play AM for Villa at times this season. It is not necessarily indicative of him not being able to sufficiently stretch play when on the LW. He plays LW a bit less often, so obviously his overall volume will be less - but they still seem to exist when he does play there.
Your choice of measure also seems rather cherry-picked. If you rather look at Rogers' 'Threatening Action Heatmap' for this season, they tend to start on what is very much the left-flank. and often result in him getting close to the by-line.
If you look at his 'Progressive and Threatening Actions' map, you will also still see plenty of instances of him both running to the by-line, and also passing the ball back across the box.
He does have a fair few examples of action on the left side of the area... See below:
I shall try to fix the images when I get back from work later.I do think you've left out quite an important piece of the puzzle here, though, by showing Rogers' maps and nobody else's as a point of comparison. My lack of technical competence prevents me from showing it but I did just go and check out Trossard's, Doku's, and Luis Diaz's threatening actions maps and heat maps and all three are far more concentrated on the left flank than Rogers. Now, as you say, some part of this will be due to to the fact that Rogers is more positionally versatile and will thus start some matches more centrally to begin with, but the other three also just complete far more carries down the left flank than Rogers does regardless.
I don't think anything you've shown here contradicts my point that, in a game where the opposition is congesting the centre and Cunha is starting on the left flank, Rogers isn't necessarily going to be the guy you want to bring on to stretch their defence. Even in the English contingent, Anthony Gordon is much better equipped for that.
I will just end by appending that I do think there's a case to be made here that my metric of "take-ons", while perhaps seeming a bit cherry-picked, is actually a better metric to use here than raw carries as well. This is because a take-on necessitates that an opposition player is around you when it is attempted, and the same is not true of a carry as I understand it. With that in mind, I think there's a fair case to be made that take-ons are a better way to judge whether or not a player is routinely pulling their opponents out wide.
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A simple eye test will also confirm that Rogers does not play like a winger. You could probably class him as a RWF or a AMR
which is not what we need. We need something different as said to stretch the play when the middle is congested.
I’d be annoyed if we spend 80m on Rogers after spending 65m on Cunha for the exact same role. We have other priorities that need that budget rather than wasting it for a copy of what we already have
which is not what we need. We need something different as said to stretch the play when the middle is congested.
I’d be annoyed if we spend 80m on Rogers after spending 65m on Cunha for the exact same role. We have other priorities that need that budget rather than wasting it for a copy of what we already have
Appreciate the effort you put into responses.Firstly, your images don't work.
Secondly, as per the reasonable point AkaAkuma makes - this will include and be distorted by the fact Rogers has been asked to play AM for Villa at times this season. It is not necessarily indicative of him not being able to sufficiently stretch play when on the LW. He plays LW a bit less often, so obviously his overall volume will be less - but they still seem to exist when he does play there.
Your choice of measure also seems rather cherry-picked. If you rather look at Rogers' 'Threatening Action Heatmap' for this season, they tend to start on what is very much the left-flank. and often result in him getting close to the by-line.
If you look at his 'Progressive and Threatening Actions' map, you will also still see plenty of instances of him both running to the by-line, and also passing the ball back across the box.
He does have a fair few examples of action on the left side of the area... See below:
How does Cunha compare? I’d imagine more central and spread out.
Its worth remembering Carrick has mentioned his role might evolve more centrally.
I think theres a limited pool of players for Left side of attack and I want us to keep raising the floor with signings, which is why Im onboard Rogers signing.
Yeah he isn’t remotely a winger and would be a significant downgrade on Cunha.
Some real nonsense being chatted in this thread.
I think he is only really under consideration if Bruno leaves (which is unlikely)
Just don't see it with him.
I could be wrong but don't think he is rounded enough for a team like United where we adapt to the opposition
I could be wrong but don't think he is rounded enough for a team like United where we adapt to the opposition
Good for half a season
I also think that is unlikely. But I do not think it is likely that Bruno will have to play deeper as he age. That is probably the only way for him to continue playing. How many AMs have there been in the PL for top teams past 32? The physical toll, the number of high-intensity runs and sprints required, will be too heavy.
A coach like Iraola frequently use more wide, winger types at AM (Rogers would probably be perfect actually). Probably due to their physical traits. Carrick also used him mostly through the middle. Either as an AM or CF.
I really dont mind that he is similar to Cunha. But I do agree that we need a type like Kvicha or Doku out wide. Or Diomande. Fast and direct. And if we can only get one attacker, that should be the priority. But not to the point where we go get someone who is obviously not good enough, just the «correct» type.
This is essentially my position as well.
I'm not vehemently opposed to signing Rogers. In terms of pure quality, he's one of the better available options on the left. Further, I think there's a strong case to be made that his versatility means he won't end up being a waste of money at £80m even if we look to pursue one of the more fast and direct left-sided attackers later down the line. I think you can quite easily slot Rogers in as the attacking midfielder, or even as the most attacking of a midfield three.
As with you, though, my preference would be to go for a more fast and direct player on the left flank this summer. Diomande and Barcola are my first and second choices of the possibly somewhat realistic candidates. It's going to be hugely unpopular but I also wouldn't mind at all if we looked at Gordon, although he looks Bayern bound at this stage.
I do agree again that if we have to drop much below that level, I'd sooner go for Rogers though.
You may have a point. Maybe its Utd just doing their due diligence incase Bruno decided to leave (unlikely). So Cunha would move into the 10 role and to backfill Cunha they would bring in Rogers.
It would actually be sensible for Utd to have a backup plan for that scenario.
And if Barcola was 70m?
It’s easy to discredit Rogers when theres a made up price on his head, but realistically theres a very shallow pool of talent and not much difference in price.
If Barcola was available for 70 million I'd snap PSG's hand off.
To be honest, if it's between Rogers or Barcola at the quoted 80 million it would take to get Villa to sell Rogers, I'm still going for Barcola quite comfortably I think. Besides Diomande, I don't think there's a better somewhat realistic alternative to Barcola in the left-wing position this summer.
I'm not hugely averse to Rogers for the reasons I've stated above but I think Diomande, Barcola, and Gordon are better fits for the type of left-sided attacker I'd preferably like us to go for.
I wouldnt argue with you, i’d take any of those.
I think Diomande will stay at Leipzig - I’ve mentioned it in the past but they did something similiar with Sesko and agreed a one year deferral.
Gordon I think would be solid, but I just dont fancy dealing with Newcastle - I think it would drag.
Which leaves Barcola - he could have a big impact as an unknown, but its not clear he’s on the market.
Which brings us back to Rogers! A clear option on the market.
Or Ndiaye, who’s just as divisive on this forum.
This is a good argument. I do agree with you that the three options I've named are likely to be difficult to get.
I'm fairly confident I'd prefer Rogers to Ndiaye if it came down to those two. I quite like Ndiaye in his own right but I'm not convinced he's explosive or frenetic enough to be what we need on the left, and Rogers is a much more decisive player.
maybe I’m the only one who enjoys entertainment from the wide areas but I’d take Ndiaye over Rogers. He’s the type of player that has skills that will occupy defenders so even if he’s not directly assisting he’s made big space for others to take
I certainly see the argument, and I do agree that Ndiaye is more enjoyable to watch than Rogers. I also agree that Ndiaye contributes in a way that's not as easy to measure with statistics. He's really difficult to win the ball off and does act like a bit of a magnet for opposition defenders, which is really valuable if not easily measurable.
I think my worry with him is that he's not a massively explosive player in the same way that Doku is, so I could see opponents finding it easier to force him inside. I'm not at all fussed about finding a left-footed player in the left attacking space but I would like them to be capable of beating a man in multiple ways from the left flank, and I'm not entirely convinced that Ndiaye has the burst of pace over a short distance to do it on the outside.
I keep going back to Doku because he's sort of the prime example of what I'd be looking for in a left-sided wide player this summer, at least as far as the Premier League is concerned. He's really, really fast over short distances and also super tricky, and that results in him keeping his opposition full-back guessing any time he plays. It's partly why Diomande is my top pick by a distance - he's just phenomenally good at this on either flank already, and I can see him reaching the level of the likes of Diaz and Kvaratskhelia when he hits his prime.
I grew up with my favorite wingers being Sharpe and Kanchelskis, so I would definitely like to see us persue Diomande. I’m just not convinced that he’s going to be sold this summer and secondly that he’d come to us. But that is the type of profile I’d love
Of all the wingers mentioned, I'd be happy with whichever can help breakdown a low block. This has been out Achilles heel for a very long time. We struggle to break down teams in low blocks.
What about Gordon? Is he this type or do you prefer someone more skillful (although probably less productive)?
I’ve gone off him a bit. But then again maybe they just aren’t getting the best from him. But I’d be unwilling to match whatever high figure Newcastle would want for him.
He’s a solid, hardworking player but I expect a bit more for his value
You think Everton will let go of Ndiaye much cheaper? I think there was talk €80mill for Gordon when Bayern and Barcelona was involved.
Crikey. Are they seeing something in Gordon that I’m not? Who are Bayern selling to fund that? It’s a joke that Barca are even linked, when they can’t find €30m for Rashford
That is basically £70 mill. I doubt Ndiaye will be much less. Seems like a going rate these days for proven PL-attackers at that age from medioker PL-clubs.
I could understand if they prefer Gordon tbh. Gordon is 25. Rashford will be 29 soon after signing him. After four years Rashford will be 33 and valued at zero. Gordon could probably be valued at something similar to Rashford today (£20-30 mill-ish)? Gordon will probably also be on a lower salary. Furthermore, you prefer the years from 25 to 29 over the years 29-33.
But how can Barca afford him? They haven’t done deals that big in years
Thing with Ndiaye is that he is supposed to be a useful player against a low block. He's not one of those wingers who needs space Infront of him to run into or to operate. That's why I think he would be a good signing for us.
Well, according to a spanish journalist the soon realized that they cant. But that was the figure they was quoted (apparantly).
If I was going to buy from the PL he’d be one I’d be looking at seriously. Very exciting player on both wings. Style of play reminds me of Kva-thingymajiggy from PSG
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If indeed we have £80m to spend on a forward player this summer, the opportunity cost of spending it on Morgan fecking Rogers is enormous. You can probably count on two hands the amount of players in the game you could NOT get for that price.