Most clean sheets across Europe in all competitions!

cyberman

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We had a better defensive record 2 seasons ago with Smalling and Jones. They didnt get support like this, nor did they have AWB the best defensive rightback helping them out.
Because we defended with 11 men in low blocks
 

Ekeke

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Because we defended with 11 men in low blocks
No we didnt, our fullbacks pushed further forward and contributed more to attack as you can see from the average positions and their end product. So we have 4 defending defenders now and we had 2 back then
 

cyberman

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No we didnt, our fullbacks pushed further forward and contributed more to attack as you can see from the average positions and their end product. So we have 4 defending defenders now and we had 2 back then
Yes, we did. We would score a goal and shut up shop or play on the break until we scored.
It was shit on a stick football. We were benching Pogba for his defensive contributions and asking Rashford and Martial to track the opposition fullbacks into our box.
The reason Valencia and Yoing have more assists etc is because they were usually the furthest forward which should tell you how we played on its own.
Gotta get those crosses from deep in. Stick it into the big man. Best of luck Fellaini
 

Ekeke

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Yes, we did. We would score a goal and shut up shop or play on the break until we scored.
It was shit on a stick football. We were benching Pogba for his defensive contributions and asking Rashford and Martial to track the opposition fullbacks into our box.
The reason Valencia and Yoing have more assists etc is because they were usually the furthest forward which should tell you how we played on its own.
Gotta get those crosses from deep in. Stick it into the big man. Best of luck Fellaini
And we scored 2 more goals than this season, playing with attacking fullbacks - 2 former wingers! We had 5 players attack the other side's half, we do the same now. We just get more of our width from our wingers than we did 2 seasons ago where the fullbacks provided it.

Now our fullbacks bomb on less and our inside forward/wingers play wider than Mata/Martial 2 seasons ago
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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This was your very first post when you quoted me on the topic. Remember, we haven't even spoken about anything else at that point of time.
You are missing the point there. You were replying to the guy’s post (below) who tried to tell you about all the positivities but you refused to read them and instead you were specifically only referring to the 15 games unbeaten which clearly isn’t his only point. So I asked you what about the games we beat City & Chelsea, can you not see the sign positive in there?

We're on a 15 game unbeaten run. Pogba was injured most of the season. The board only bought Fernandes in Jan. We had much to do. I can tell you, that your opinion only matters to you. I think most people can see that we are a much more stable team. And that's all there is to say. I think what's important is starting next season well....continuing form but I just feel you're being much to harsh.....I think you underestimate the problems we've over come and actually people are looking at the team now and being objective as opposed to biased...

We went on a terrible run and I think a lot of that was bad apples in the dressing room. We've a few young players or players who are still developing. We see a good team spirit at the moment. We see the new players mostly delivering with the exception really of James. We're playing great stuff. But of course we can do better. So we need to build on what we have for next season ....but there's still much to play for. I think it's backwards thinking to look at the past rather then the future because this is not the same squad. Players are playing with a good degree of confidence but you want to destabalize us and for what? Just don't make sense. The players back Ole. That's shown in a maturing squad.
 

gerdm07

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This is why I have been saying CB should not be our priority. Should be RW followed by a CM/DM.

However if we manage to get rid of Jones/Rojo/Smalling we might end up buying a good backup (someone young) makes sense.

We keep complaining about the mistakes our players make because we watch all their games. We don’t watch others defenders day in and day out and hence think they don’t concede due to mistakes. Not saying we have a great pair of CBs, but they are good enough to build our attack on.

This stat is relevant for exactly this, over the course of a season we are the 3rd best defensively, which means we have a good defence. No amount of mind bending can change that fact. And it’s not like we have been parking the bus every game.
I agree. RW in Jadon and ? as DM. Third for me would be either striker or AM. Though striker might be settled with Martial and Greenwood.
 

cyberman

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And we scored 2 more goals than this season, playing with attacking fullbacks - 2 former wingers! We had 5 players attack the other side's half, we do the same now. We just get more of our width from our wingers than we did 2 seasons ago where the fullbacks provided it.

Now our fullbacks bomb on less and our inside forward/wingers play wider than Mata/Martial 2 seasons ago
Our fullbacks are used to play in the widemen, actually participate in attacking play. Attacking sequences and everything.
Back then they crossed it from all angles. There was very little forward play from them. Its why Valencia was famous for breaking defenders ankles with his crosses because thats all he did.
 

Ekeke

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Our fullbacks are used to play in the widemen, actually participate in attacking play. Attacking sequences and everything.
Back then they crossed it from all angles. There was very little forward play from them. Its why Valencia was famous for breaking defenders ankles with his crosses because thats all he did.
2 years ago 17/18



This season 19/20



Almost exactly the same for United

Meanwhile Liverpool changed to have less of the ball in midfield and more in attack by 3% in the same 2 year period

Valencia would take players on all the time because he was providing the width and becoming an auxillary right winger. He lacked defensively especially compared to AWB
 

bond19821982

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You are missing the point there. You were replying to the guy’s post (below) who tried to tell you about all the positivities but you refused to read them and instead you were specifically only referring to the 15 games unbeaten which clearly isn’t his only point. So I asked you what about the games we beat City & Chelsea, can you not see the sign positive in there?
You first post was that there is nothing wrong with the quality of the opposition in the winning run . All the rest came later. Period .

Well, not that I was expecting a different answer. You very well know thats how the discussion started but your ego wouldn't let you accept it.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You first post was that there is nothing wrong with the quality of the opposition in the winning run . All the rest came later. Period .

Well, not that I was expecting a different answer. You very well know thats how the discussion started but your ego wouldn't let you accept it.
That was a rhetorical question. Look at this next post that I replied to your response.

We beat Chelsea and City twice in those runs. Your point just doesn’t make any sense. Why are you specifically referring to those teams but single out the quality ones that we beat? You are ignoring it just to suit your argument.
Right away I chose not to talk about Tranmere, LASK, Derby & Club Brugge. Because that was never the problem and the positive you should look at.

I have said this before that you are only reading what is written without understanding it.
 

bond19821982

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That was a rhetorical question. Look at this next post that I replied to your response.



Right away I chose not to talk about Tranmere, LASK, Derby & Club Brugge. Because that was never the problem and the positive you should look at.

I have said this before that you are only reading what is written without understanding it.
You are proving what I just said. You were happy with the quality of the oppositions and thats how the whole thing started. I didn't discuss anything about positives to you. I repeat, we didn't speak about positives in the very first post. You were quite happy with the quality of the opposition in the winning run.

There is nothing rhetoric - it's all facts . Feel free to go back and check your old posts.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You are proving what I just said. You were happy with the quality of the oppositions and thats how the whole thing started. I didn't discuss anything about positives to you. I repeat, we didn't speak about positives in the very first post. You were quite happy with the quality of the opposition in the winning run.

There is nothing rhetoric - it's all facts . Feel free to go back and check your old posts.
The original poster was talking about the positive and you ignored it to suit your argument so I tried to brought it back from the very first post to the end but you refused to listen.

It was rhetorical because there was no problem in it after all so shouldn’t be mentioned specifically in the first place. Is it so hard to understand?
 

Crashoutcassius

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This is a wierd thread. Lads who are making up any reason under the sun to still believe we have a bad defence, you are fighting the tide versus the actual numbers, nobody cares if you are wrong, give up
 

Mindhunter

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Of course our defense is good. No team can go on a 19 games unbeaten run if the defense can't pull their weight. We have a solid backline that provides stability and Matic is very good at shielding the defense and also joining in the back line based on the phase of play.

However, if you scratch under the surface then you will notice lots of structural cracks emerging. Maguire our record signing and club captain has the right attitude but leaves much to be deserved in terms of imposing himself on the game. He made far too many errors for my liking this season and seems to lose the plot occasionally.

Lindelof has given it his all this season and has been consistently better than average but he shouldn't be more than a rotation option for us given his ability. He isn't very good in the air and lacks positional awareness IMO. Shaw again was a great prospect and seems to be finding his form back this season. I think after Maguire he is our most competent defender.

Wan Bissaka is great at 1:1 situations but loses his mind when he is asked to defend in different situations. He doesn't have the understanding to track runs of players cutting in or to fill up gaps left by Lindelof. Going forward too he is vastly limited. The encouraging thing is that he is still young and we may be able to drill him into a player that will be useful.

Last but obviously not the least is the highest paid goalkeeper in the world - DDG. He has totally lost his confidence and to make matters worse doesn't communicate well with his defense. If he isn't able to recoup some of his form that made him one of the most revered shot-stoppers in the world then the worst case could be a season like Kepa.

The less said about our substitutes the better.
 

stevoc

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And Solskjær has won it!
And we scored 2 more goals than this season, playing with attacking fullbacks - 2 former wingers! We had 5 players attack the other side's half, we do the same now. We just get more of our width from our wingers than we did 2 seasons ago where the fullbacks provided it.

Now our fullbacks bomb on less and our inside forward/wingers play wider than Mata/Martial 2 seasons ago
Theres a reason they were former wingers they drastically declined and became shit at attacking, Valencia more so. Under Mourinho i wouldn't describe either of them as attacking fullbacks, especially Valencia.
 

antohan

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Our last big game in the premier league in 17/18 before seasons end, against Arsenal where we won 2 - 1



On average we had our CBs high up and 1 DM behind the half way line. The fullbacks were pushing forward past the halfway line

Here are our average positions against Leicester, the last big game of this season where we won 2- 0



CBs further back, DM further back, fullbacks not pushed past the halfway line

Both have 5 of our players in the opposition side of the pitch on average


When people say shit about how we played that season like its so different now its stupid because we can check :rolleyes:
1) You are comparing a game we were playing home vs one we were playing away
2) You are comparing a game with us sitting 2nd and comfortably qualifying for the CL with one on the final day of the season and needing NOT to lose
3) You are comparing a game we went ahead early in the first half with one deadlocked until late in the second half

The whole comparison pretty much falls on its arse really
 

bond19821982

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The original poster was talking about the positive and you ignored it to suit your argument so I tried to brought it back from the very first post to the end but you refused to listen.

It was rhetorical because there was no problem in it after all so shouldn’t be mentioned specifically in the first place. Is it so hard to understand?
All here - sorry mate, you are losing it !


I don't know what's the problem with Tranmere, LASK, Derby & Club Brugge? In those run, we also beat Chelsea & City twice.
 

Ekeke

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1) You are comparing a game we were playing home vs one we were playing away
2) You are comparing a game with us sitting 2nd and comfortably qualifying for the CL with one on the final day of the season and needing NOT to lose
3) You are comparing a game we went ahead early in the first half with one deadlocked until late in the second half

The whole comparison pretty much falls on its arse really
I compared the last big game of each season. Pretty simple

1234) The match against Arsenal was in April, we finished above Spurs by just 4 points. So of course we needed to carry on getting points. We were trying to win the title that season before we fell out of competitiveness so yes, we were chasing something even better than this season.
 

stevoc

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And Solskjær has won it!
I compared the last big game of each season. Pretty simple

1234) The match against Arsenal was in April, we finished above Spurs by just 4 points. So of course we needed to carry on getting points. We were trying to win the title that season before we fell out of competitiveness so yes, we were chasing something even better than this season.
Yeah we fell out of contention for the league way before April. By Xmas we were nowhere near City.
 

RashyForPM

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We should do better than players like Declan Rice.
I didn’t mention it in that particular post, but this is what I mean about him being underrated. Can pass short and long, tackle, intercept, and even has a good shot on him. He’s only 21 too. He’ll have a great career at the top imo.
 

Knux

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B-b-but our defence is shite?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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All here - sorry mate, you are losing it !
If beating Tranmere, LASK, Derby & Club Brugge is part of problem then I’m sorry but something wrong in your head there. No one should think that as problem. After all of these explanations I have gave you, I doubt even the most intelligent guy on the planet can make you understand it.
 

Tel074

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3rd best defence in the league. Would be first apart from a few De Gea howlers.

Just DeGea howlers ? No Maguire , Lindelof , Shaw , Bailly, Jones howlers ? Just DeGea . Okay then
 

WR10

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Careful, people hate to hear that Maguire was a bargain in this forum. In fact, last year we conceded 78 goals in 53 games. This year we’ve conceded 48 in 58 games. This is including 8 errors leading to goals conceded by our main man, De Gea.

It’s nothing short of transformative.
 

ForeverRed1

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I love how opposition fans are so quick to call our defence terrible. My brother is a avid Liverpool fan (ergh) and he constantly harps on about how rubbish our defence is and if we are going to win the league that’s the area to improve.. but actually we are only behind liverpool and leicester for conceded goals.. (I think because maybe we look a little shakey at times people think we are worse than we actually are) also it is worth bearing in mind, how awful we were earlier in the season! Imagine we had found our form sooner...

I think a top notch experienced centre back and a lb to compete with shaw and we are golden!
 

RashyForPM

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2 years ago 17/18



This season 19/20



Almost exactly the same for United

Meanwhile Liverpool changed to have less of the ball in midfield and more in attack by 3% in the same 2 year period

Valencia would take players on all the time because he was providing the width and becoming an auxillary right winger. He lacked defensively especially compared to AWB
This is because we had a great start and shit end to 17-18, and a poor start (with guys like Lingard and Pereira starring) and great end to 19-20. I’d imagine that these quantitative stats would be similar. Next season, with our current crop and Sancho, I’m also certain that it’d improve.
 

Ekeke

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This is because we had a great start and shit end to 17-18, and a poor start (with guys like Lingard and Pereira starring) and great end to 19-20. I’d imagine that these quantitative stats would be similar. Next season, with our current crop and Sancho, I’m also certain that it’d improve.
Sure, just like if you added Sancho to the 2018 team we'd have pushed on from 2nd.
 

Niks111

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Defence is really good until the team lets a stupid goal in
 

bond19821982

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If beating Tranmere, LASK, Derby & Club Brugge is part of problem then I’m sorry but something wrong in your head there. No one should think that as problem. After all of these explanations I have gave you, I doubt even the most intelligent guy on the planet can make you understand it.
You very well know thats not the context here but running out of ideas to counter it. So shifting the goal posts completely. For that, I have only one reply which is below.


I don't know what's the problem with Tranmere, LASK, Derby & Club Brugge? In those run, we also beat Chelsea & City twice.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You very well know thats not the context here but running out of ideas to counter it. So shifting the goal posts completely. For that, I have only one reply which is below.
You are just keep repeating shite which reflects that you run out of ideas to counter it. I dare you to tell me what's the context then?

You said it's problem for beating Tranmere, LASK, Derby & Club Brugge in our unbeaten run. You didn't give any credit on it at all.
If you dont see any problem with the quality of those teams, you are free to enjoy what you see now. My point is simple- it could very well another false dawn . Would rather wait for the season to end and make a conclusion.
I didn't say our clean sheet is a problem, can you show it to me where I said it's a problem. I actually gave credit of the improvement.
I don't think we need a new thread for this, I feel embarrassed reading it and don't think we need to discuss about it. I'm one of them who acknowledge the improvement but our defense should be viewed on the league not all comp. We are playing in Europa League FFS. If we do this next season then it's worth a discussion.
 

cyril C

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How many great goals have we conceded?

How many keeper howler, simple mistake by the CB, on set piece...

Great majority of the goals that we conceded were unforced error, or avoidable, if we manage to keep up the level of concentration, and better organised in set piece.
 

Snow

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Yes, we did. We would score a goal and shut up shop or play on the break until we scored.
It was shit on a stick football. We were benching Pogba for his defensive contributions and asking Rashford and Martial to track the opposition fullbacks into our box.
The reason Valencia and Yoing have more assists etc is because they were usually the furthest forward which should tell you how we played on its own.
Gotta get those crosses from deep in. Stick it into the big man. Best of luck Fellaini
That's just false. Pogba started 2 games on the bench in the league, one of which was the last of the season where players were rested for the FA Cup final. He missed 11 league games that season, 8 through injury and 3 through a suspension.
 

Isotope

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Yes, we did. We would score a goal and shut up shop or play on the break until we scored.
It was shit on a stick football. We were benching Pogba for his defensive contributions and asking Rashford and Martial to track the opposition fullbacks into our box.
The reason Valencia and Yoing have more assists etc is because they were usually the furthest forward which should tell you how we played on its own.
Gotta get those crosses from deep in. Stick it into the big man. Best of luck Fellaini
As opposed to this season? Also when Pogba was out for about 2/3 of this season, what system do you think we had by then?
 
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Isotope

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How many great goals have we conceded?

How many keeper howler, simple mistake by the CB, on set piece...

Great majority of the goals that we conceded were unforced error, or avoidable, if we manage to keep up the level of concentration, and better organised in set piece.
It's not just this season this team is bad at set pieces. We couldn't defend set pieces way back to Mou's time also. It's nothing new.
 
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Strelok

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Tbh imo we don't really need any data to see our defense has been improved. I still remember shitting my self and ready to have an heart attack anytime we faced a set piece or a cross swung in our final third back then. Despite a very low defensive line and a big number in defense. Not anymore now.

Imo our goals conceded this season were mostly due to individual errors rather than the result of a weak defense. And those happen mostly when we played with a high defensive line. In the big matches where we play counter attack with a low defensive line most teams didn't look menacing at all. Even Liverpool or City.

I'm happy with our defense so far. They did their job pretty well when we face the big teams. However imo our defense still need to improve when they have to play with more risk, like with a high line and have to keep and play the ball. They were pretty lucky this season when most of the time they made an error our attack scored and bailed them out.
 
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RedDevil@84

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Looks petty to pick on De Gea's mistakes when Slabhead and Iceman are allowed to have brain fart moments, leaving poor De Gea to deal with it.
 

roonster09

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Our defence has clearly improved but we need to do lot better in defending set pieces. We have conceded least goals from open play.
 

cyberman

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That's just false. Pogba started 2 games on the bench in the league, one of which was the last of the season where players were rested for the FA Cup final. He missed 11 league games that season, 8 through injury and 3 through a suspension.
It was the result of continuous criticism though. He was asked to track runners into our box as our AM ffs.
 

cyberman

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As opposed to this season? Also when Pogba was out for about 2/3 of this season, what system do you think we had by then?
Theres a difference between that and crowding our own box, in low blocks, without any intention to attack.
Our defenders are pressin0g higher and taking the ball forward, the fact Maguires pace on the turn is highlighted shows how much higher up we play.
Its not even a comparison. Our football back then was already a decade out of date.