Yes I do find the amount of votes for Ramos surprising. Obviously rash and not perfect and lets be honest the last decade hasnt actually had many great centre backs. But the leadership, important goals, wilyness
Most overrated 'world class' player?
- Thread starter altodevil
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Don’t think he’s really in the bracket tbh. Feel like Griezmann, Coutinho, Dybala had great periods but were they ever world class. Maybe Griezmann at Atheltico?
I think Rashford is heavily overrated. Mostly because he is English and plays for united. I honestly don’t think he’s that good and would consider selling him. He’s not a left winger or a striker. He’s a left forward and has so many limitations to his game he doesn’t score tap ins or headers and isn’t a poacher. I’d sell him whilst he is overhyped
Rio was better than John Terry. I don't even know why this is being debated.
England have produced defender's like Terry regularly. The like of Adams, Bruce, and Butcher are all the same mold. A player like Rio Ferdinand rarely comes along. He was different class.
England have produced defender's like Terry regularly. The like of Adams, Bruce, and Butcher are all the same mold. A player like Rio Ferdinand rarely comes along. He was different class.
I know Souness would say . . . Pogba!!
he's been described before as world class by many though
funny you mention Griezmann as always thought he was never that good, forget about his time at Barca now even at Atletico just seemed he needs plenty of space to play into, obviously excellent player then but for me never a top 10 player in the world really when he was considered to be, always thought he was quite limited in context to the level were talking about
Being overrated here doesn't count or ? Of course Man Utd fans rate him super highly cause of bias, which is absolutely correct.
He is not really overhyped outside of Manchester United fans ( rated highly but not necessarily as top top winger you want to have at your club and break the bank for).
Marcelo, Dani Alves and Ramos
Modric was 100% world class, an incredible player
I cant even remember him playing for Inter to be honest, barely remember Napoli. Really his Parma days I remember him and of course at Juventus onwards. Was he poor for Inter then?
I remember he made quite a few howlers at Madrid
and looking at this thread from big soccer - So How Did Cannavaro Do In La Liga 2006/2007? his first season was pretty average for a player who won the Ballon D'or.
not to mention Cannavaro himself admitted he's never made so many mistakes
Bale.
Its because you only start watching football in last 5-6 years, or your memory span only serves you that long. True he was more or less only a great goalscorer in past 5-6 years or so (age 30s+). But he was also very talented and was top dribbler at younger age (early 20s), and a great all round attacker during his physical peak (mid to late 20s). He also has 224 assists throughout his career, which makes him also great at making assists, apart from goalscoring. But again, it depends how long your memory serves you.
N'Golo Kante.
One or two high-energy performances in high-profile games, missing for most of the season.
Jorginho has been a more consistent player for Chelsea.
One or two high-energy performances in high-profile games, missing for most of the season.
Jorginho has been a more consistent player for Chelsea.
Terry is severely underrated on this forum, no doubt about it. England has definitely not produced CBs like Terry regularly. Terry was quite unique in that he combined those rough typical English CB qualities with incredible positional play and ball playing abilities. Terry was amazing on the ball something 90% of people overlook because he was so incredibly dominate physically. He rarely had a mistake in him and was incredibly consistent for most of his career. For me the best English CB I’ve seen when you look at the whole package.
I'd have Cafu, Carlos Alberto, Djalma, Vogts, Lahm, Thuram and Bergomi above Alves. But Kaltz and Suurbier? Probably not, I'd probably take Alves in most 11s over those two. Gentile was practically the opposite type of player to Alves, probably on par but suited to completely different 11s.I'll leave this here - it's another Ballon D'Or Dream Team published by France Football.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_d'Or_Dream_Team
All-time Right Backs:
Nationality Player Years Club with most appearances Best result at Ballon d'Or Giuseppe Bergomi Cafu Carlos Alberto Djalma Santos Claudio Gentile Manfred Kaltz Philipp Lahm Wim Suurbier Lilian Thuram Berti Vogts
This list seems about right - I've name checked Bergomi, Cafu, Carlos Alberto, Lahm and Thuram as being better than Alves, seems like I missed Santos, Gentile, Kaltz, Vogts and Suurbier as well
Top 10 for sure. But some numpty claimed "Alves is arguably the greatest right back of all time" which made me laugh.
He transferred at 33 at Real Madrid at played until he was 36. To judge him because of his Madrid years in incredibly harsh. He's one of the best Italian defenders I've seen at Parma and Juve.
Cannavaro, Maldini, Nesta were all amazing, but this guy was on a different planet. That AC Milan of late 80's early 90's was unreal
Mate, Marcelo is unbelievable.I was browsing the FIFPro team of the year appearances by player:
I was shocked to see Marcelo has had 6 appearances. Six. It was only established in 2005. Marcelo has been judged as one of the best 11 players in the world six times.
I just found that astonishing, good player but never had him rated that highly.
Who else is a world class or top tier player that you find overrated? Either currently or in the annals of history.
I don't understand why you are posting these numbers as if they are objective reality. They aren't, and even if they were were, you would need to actually put some thought into them and not just go "the big number means its better." The fact that you seem to think Hakimi had a better league season than Modric in 2018 because he averages less than 0.2 more on a website ranking is absurd.
Modric was the 2nd or 3rd best player for RM in those CL seasons (Ronaldo being first and Ramos being the other one). He sure as shit wasn't the 11th. Any 'analysis' that leads you to such a conclusion belongs in the garbage bin.
Not sure i agree with that. In 13/14 other than Cris, there was Bale, Di Maria and Benzema as well as Sergio. Cris was the best player, the others were all great too, like Modric.
15/16 and 16/17 yeah, i'd say he was our second or third best player, though it's a close thing with Kroos as well. And 17/18 he really wasn't very good. Marcelo was arguably our best player in that run
Still, world cup year. The idea that he didn't deserve the ballon d'or(and fifa award, he won that too) is ridiculous to me. There were other players just as deserving of it, yeah, but he did deserve it
Very true.
You can be a leader and still be overrated. See how many people view Gerrard as overrated. Ramos is a good leader in his mentality in attack but his defensive organisation which is also part of leadership (see Keane) is lacking.
Tbh I've just never rated him highly as a defender.
He emerged as a (perceived) top, top player in a historical context where "pure" defending has become less and less important.
Judging him - on a historical scale - we have to take this into consideration.
What I personally find odd is that some of his advocates actually try to argue that he is a defensive giant - rather than just arguing that he's a top, top player in spite of the fact that he (clearly) is nowhere near former greats in terms of purely defensive qualities.
Agreed - there's a dearth of quality CB's using historical standards, but he's been one of the best of his generation. Compared to Baresi, Maldini, Cannavaro, Nesta, Stam, Scirea, Kohler etc he comes up short.
Yes, and he's won everything there is to win as an important - not to say crucial - member of the team(s) he's played for.
He's clearly worth discussing as an all-time great based on his achievements alone - and then we can start comparing him to other candidates, based on individual traits versus general trends/developments, etc.
Amazed how much effort is put to prove that Modrić is overrated and mostly using stats like average rating, nonsense. There is much more that can influence a football game that can't be described with statistics and average ratings can heavily mislead ( for example: Matić was our best player yesterday according to Sofascore and their average rating ).
Absolutely world-class in his prime, pivotal in the club that won 4 CL in 5 years ( ! ). As for Ballon d'Or, deserved the win. In World Cup year he was the best player in a tournament which is the individually best award you can claim, as World Cup outweighs any club competition for me. And also won CL a few weeks earlier. Not even biased, here in Croatia many people dislike Luka for his outfield activities, but for his on-field performances, he will retire as one of the greatest midfielders of decade.
Absolutely world-class in his prime, pivotal in the club that won 4 CL in 5 years ( ! ). As for Ballon d'Or, deserved the win. In World Cup year he was the best player in a tournament which is the individually best award you can claim, as World Cup outweighs any club competition for me. And also won CL a few weeks earlier. Not even biased, here in Croatia many people dislike Luka for his outfield activities, but for his on-field performances, he will retire as one of the greatest midfielders of decade.
I don't know why anyone would even begin to make a case for Modrić being "overrated".
Compared to who? Based on what?
It's ridiculous.
Neymar. Such a primadonna. Wouldn't have him here on a free. I'd rather keep watching Dan James chase his shadow.
Sergio Ramos, dont get me wrong he's class and has credentials to claim he's the best from his generation but Madrid fans take him to a whole new level. "The greatest defender ever" I mean the guy has leadership, can score goals which is nice but purely defending wise I find him nothing special.
If 50 footballing experts vote for a player - how can he be overrated ? That's like saying I know better than 10 world class footballers and 10 international coaches.
Not really.
Both world class footballers and coaches can be wrong/biased/plain silly about individual players.
Top journalists can be horribly wrong and/or biased too.
A popularity contest is never a true reflection of quality - and these "best XIs" are basically a combination of popularity contest and "who's won what recently".
As is the Ballon, really - and some would say it has become more and more so in recent years.
Yes but not all of them at once - if a player gets 10 votes from the best in the business, that's usually a good indication of something
How is Neymar overrated?
Great player but also hugely disliked by people. You can say that balances itself out to make him fairly rated.
Great player but also hugely disliked by people. You can say that balances itself out to make him fairly rated.
I can understand why people wouldnt like him and isnt the perfect defender or have the elegance of others. I wouldnt agree about the lack of defensive organisation personally at all. One of the best defenders of all time, no, one of the best of his generation, definatelly. He has been fantastic for club and country for a good decade.
If he is over rated like Gerrard is, then that says enough for me. Was pretty piss poor for England like many quality players in squads he was involved with but come, that has to be tribalism, no doubt he was one of the best midfielders in Europe for a considerable period of time and also extremely versatile
Iker Casillas has to take home this prize. Even at his peak I never thought he looked world class, just a very good GK who had a few mistakes in him. Yet Madrid fans still proclaim him to be one of the all time greats.
Edit: completely forgot about Griezmann, he has to be up there too.
Edit: completely forgot about Griezmann, he has to be up there too.
That is fair enough, I wasnt really saying he was a success at Madrid, more that I don tthink any centre back could have been a success the way they were playing when he was there. What I was saying more importantly was that for me he was no way over rated. I think he was a fantastic defender, one of the best man markers I can remember at centre back. He would get in my all time eleven from my lifetime anyway
I think you could say Ramos was the most renowned defender of his generation but not the best at defending from his generation. Players like Godin, Van Dijk, Hummels, Thiago Silva probably all a tier above at defending during their peaks.