Mourinho comments about our season to L'Equipe

doriandun

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I’m not dismissing his comments but certain questions must be asked. How do you end up having your own players “eroded” in this fashion? I mean, that players already at the club might be damaged goods when you take over is one thing. But Jose did bring in a fair number of players himself.

Were some of them (how many if so) not his players? I’m not sure I buy this “meddling Ed” narrative some have started spinning. I frankly find it unlikely that Woodward has, at any point, positively forced players on the sitting manager. None of those managers, including Jose, has come out and stated so openly – so it remains a conspiracy theory as far as I’m concerned.

Is there a “culture” at United which erodes players? If so, exactly what does it amount to? How does it work? Complacency, not putting in proper shifts – is this allowed at United? If so, isn’t this on the manager? I have zero faith in Ed, as such, but I can’t see him tolerating a “culture” that is not tolerated by the manager.
It's easy, the same way kids get influenced in school, or parents wanting to be your friend, instead of performing their duties, as for signings, the only one's who i would say are Mourinho type of players are Matic, who i would give leeway as i think he is need of rest, as he has been constantly rushed back from injury, Linderof,Lukaku, who i am a little disappointed with, and has no excuse, in relation to his poor first touch and Miki, who i think just struggled tempermant wise, as he is not much better for Arsenal.

Pogba, Sanchez, Zlatan Ibrahimović are all commerically assets.

How many dud defender's has Jose bought in his career?
 

royboy16

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I’m not dismissing his comments but certain questions must be asked. How do you end up having your own players “eroded” in this fashion? I mean, that players already at the club might be damaged goods when you take over is one thing. But Jose did bring in a fair number of players himself.

Were some of them (how many if so) not his players? I’m not sure I buy this “meddling Ed” narrative some have started spinning. I frankly find it unlikely that Woodward has, at any point, positively forced players on the sitting manager. None of those managers, including Jose, has come out and stated so openly – so it remains a conspiracy theory as far as I’m concerned.

Is there a “culture” at United which erodes players? If so, exactly what does it amount to? How does it work? Complacency, not putting in proper shifts – is this allowed at United? If so, isn’t this on the manager? I have zero faith in Ed, as such, but I can’t see him tolerating a “culture” that is not tolerated by the manager.
Didnt he make some remark last year that he wasnt a manager just a coach or something like that which might explain he didnt have full control of things.
 

roonster09

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Didnt he make some remark last year that he wasnt a manager just a coach or something like that which might explain he didnt have full control of things.
That was after the game against Leicester, when we failed to sign his targets and market was closed.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I’m not dismissing his comments but certain questions must be asked. How do you end up having your own players “eroded” in this fashion? I mean, that players already at the club might be damaged goods when you take over is one thing. But Jose did bring in a fair number of players himself.

Were some of them (how many if so) not his players? I’m not sure I buy this “meddling Ed” narrative some have started spinning. I frankly find it unlikely that Woodward has, at any point, positively forced players on the sitting manager. None of those managers, including Jose, has come out and stated so openly – so it remains a conspiracy theory as far as I’m concerned.

Is there a “culture” at United which erodes players? If so, exactly what does it amount to? How does it work? Complacency, not putting in proper shifts – is this allowed at United? If so, isn’t this on the manager? I have zero faith in Ed, as such, but I can’t see him tolerating a “culture” that is not tolerated by the manager.
They are pampered and rewarded too young without actually achieving much. A young player comes in the side and one good performance, they get a new contract and a payrise.
 

TRUERED89

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Jose's going to be everything he hates next season: A football pundit.
No major club will go near him now.
He's constantly been on Bein Sports and RT news, attention seeking like the narcissist that he is :lol:. I don't see him ever being back in the PL, PSG and Inter are his only realistic options.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Didnt he make some remark last year that he wasnt a manager just a coach or something like that which might explain he didnt have full control of things.
Yes, he did that - but that could be interpreted as a reaction to being denied targets (aftermath of Woody's "briefing"). Which isn't comparable to having players forced on you.
 

Jim Beam

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A commercial buy, that Mou claims was given to him by Woodward rather than Perisic, who he saw as a perfect winger to fit in with Lukaku, whether we believe this or not, Arsenal Sanchez is alot more commercially attractive to the club as a whole than Perisic.
Nah...

"I think Alexis reminds me a little bit of the history - I don't know, it's not a history, almost a metaphor - when you see the tree with amazing oranges at the top and cannot get there. You say: 'Oh, I got the lower ones because I don't like the ones at the top.

"You like the ones at the top. They are so nice, so orange, so round, so full of juice but you cannot get there so you say: 'I don't want to go there' or 'I didn't like it, I prefer the other ones.' It reminds me of that story."

He added: "I know that if other clubs did not get him it's not a problem of money, for sure. That's not a problem of money."
Look him all smug when we beat City to sign him. He is right, the problem with this club run deeper and it is about structure. Ironically, about giving people like him so much power. We all laughed when Pep went out and said that the club pulled out because it was too much money on the table and it would set a precedent, break wage structure and stability. Which is excatly what we did then. And that it wasn't his, but club decision which he doesn't have any problems. We can point all we like to City spending power, but they are so far ahead not only because of money, but because they are far better organized. They are probably thinking 5 years ahead while Ed is scratching his head what he will do tomorrow.

Feck Mourinho and his idea of playing Perisic with Lukaku as a way forward. This is the man who wanted to trade Benzema for Hugo Almeida. But obviously, even in Madrid, someone had a sense to stop him.
 

fezzerUTD

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Love a bit of Jose saying what sane people have been thinking for a few years now.
 

Champagne Football

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Fred - £52 million
Pogba - £89
Lukaku - £80
Matic - £40
Bailly - £30

That has to be the worst spent £300 million in history. A Klopp or a Pochettino would guarantee you far more for your money. A club like Lyon could get you 5 better players than that with a £50 million budget.

Jose Mourinho was every bit a disaster as Van Gaal and Moyes.
 

TsuWave

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Fred - £52 million
Pogba - £89
Lukaku - £80
Matic - £40
Bailly - £30

That has to be the worst spent £300 million in history. A Klopp or a Pochettino would guarantee you far more for your money. A club like Lyon could get you 5 better players than that with a £50 million budget.
Do you consider Lindelof a success? If so, how can one justify Lindelof a success and include Pogba on this list?
 

Champagne Football

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Do you consider Lindelof a success? If so, how can one justify Lindelof a success and include Pogba on this list?
The jury is still out on Lindelof. But he seems to have the desire and mental strength to be a Utd player.
I'm a huge fan of Pogba's ability but he's a footballing version of Mourinho, a spoiled brat, and his like are not worth the trouble they bring. He clearly feels above the club and under Fergie if you felt above the club like Beckham, Ince did then you were gone quicker than a hot snot.

Fred could still be a success here. He seems so far off the pace though that he looks like he could do with a loan move.
Send him on loan to Monaco in return for Tielemans would make a lot of sense, but The Glazers are not letting any of our underperforming young talents leave, due to feeling burned from losing Zaha and Memphis for peanuts.
 

beedoubleyou

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No it's cringy and stupid. He's a journalist followed by many not a fecking no name posting any nonsense he wants.[/QUOTEght, you're entitled to the tweets you like from the journalist
Sorry, you're right. You are entitled for that person to tweet what you want, because they are employed privately by a newspaper you don't pay for.
 

doriandun

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Interesting that Woodward, has just said he will back Ole in the transfer window on the back of Mourinho's latest comments, it seems Mourinho hit a nerve and inadvertly by his comments have forced Woodwards hand, thus benefitting Ole. in the short and long term.
 

Kapardin

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Interesting the Woodward, has just said he will back Ole in the transfer window on the back of Mourinho's latest comments, it seems Mourinho hit a nerve and inadvertly by his comments have forced Woodwards hand, thus benefitting Ole. in the short and long term.
Yep, I wasn't kidding when I said Jose's motor mouth was helping the fans. Fact is, with Jose and Gary Neville constantly taking digs at Woodward, the spotlight is now on him, and he can't squirm out of it.

Also if Ole fails, nobody will blame the manager this time but will directly turn their attentions to Woodward, with comments like these adding fuel to the fire. It is a good thing.
 

roonster09

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Interesting that Woodward, has just said he will back Ole in the transfer window on the back of Mourinho's latest comments, it seems Mourinho hit a nerve and inadvertly by his comments have forced Woodwards hand, thus benefitting Ole. in the short and long term.
Jose's comments have nothing to do with Woodward saying he will back Ole. It's investors conference call and he always says that. Apart from that, spending big was always on the cards this summer.
 

sunama

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Our problems are way bigger then Mourinho. I actually think that Mourinho's appointment is a consequence of our main problem which is a board of directors who have absolutely no idea of football. There's no denying though that Mourinho came in here, he spent 400m and there's barely anything to show for it. He also kept United back by being against the very thing we need ie a DOF.
Jose's been gone for a while now and there is no DoF. Is Jose still preventing us from signing a DoF?

I think you'll find that it's the man in charge who is preventing us from moving forward. Woodward is the one who did not buy the players which Jose wanted last Summer, to propel us from 2nd to 1st. Woodward is also the man who has not hired a DoF.

While on the subject of DoF, a DoF is not going to be the magic bullet that some people think it will be. I also said the same when Jose was fired.
 

Chesterlestreet

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They are pampered and rewarded too young without actually achieving much. A young player comes in the side and one good performance, they get a new contract and a payrise.
Yes. But this is pretty much a generic challenge, for any club at a reasonably high level, these days.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that if there's a bad culture within a group of players (doesn't matter what it is, precisely), it should be a primary task of the manager (at a club like United, that is, where there is no DoF or similar figure around) to address this.

So, the question becomes: did Mourinho try to fix the problem - only to be undermined/not backed up by his employers (that would mean Woodward)? Going further back, did LVG try to fix it? He's made some unflattering remarks about the structure at United too - but he hasn't said anything specifically about a rotten culture among the players.

On the face of it, both LVG and Mourinho should've had the authority to take on a rotten culture. They wouldn't have allowed themselves to be pushed over by any "clique" of players, I really don't think so.

Obligatory (but somewhat relevant) Fergie reference: when he arrived, he faced a culture problem (a major one). He made it an absolute priority to fix this - and he was backed 100% by both Edwards and senior/heavy figures like Busby and Charlton.

Another question: is there any reason to think that Fergie's successors have tried to address a core problem (a rotten culture) - but that their efforts have been undermined in any way?
 

DomesticTadpole

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Yes. But this is pretty much a generic challenge, for any club at a reasonably high level, these days.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that if there's a bad culture within a group of players (doesn't matter what it is, precisely), it should be a primary task of the manager (at a club like United, that is, where there is no DoF or similar figure around) to address this.

So, the question becomes: did Mourinho try to fix the problem - only to be undermined/not backed up by his employers (that would mean Woodward)? Going further back, did LVG try to fix it? He's made some unflattering remarks about the structure at United too - but he hasn't said anything specifically about a rotten culture among the players.

On the face of it, both LVG and Mourinho should've had the authority to take on a rotten culture. They wouldn't have allowed themselves to be pushed over by any "clique" of players, I really don't think so.

Obligatory (but somewhat relevant) Fergie reference: when he arrived, he faced a culture problem (a major one). He made it an absolute priority to fix this - and he was backed 100% by both Edwards and senior/heavy figures like Busby and Charlton.

Another question: is there any reason to think that Fergie's successors have tried to address a core problem (a rotten culture) - but that their efforts have been undermined in any way?
I mentioned elsewhere about them being entitled. I didn't particularly mean the kids then, more some have been there that long they feel part of the furniture and untouchable. Maybe have Ed's ear and are thought of as leaders, when they are actually the opposite. People say about Pogba, yes I think he is under the impression that he is a world beater, but I am not sure he is the main culprit here.
 

devilish

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Jose's been gone for a while now and there is no DoF. Is Jose still preventing us from signing a DoF?

I think you'll find that it's the man in charge who is preventing us from moving forward. Woodward is the one who did not buy the players which Jose wanted last Summer, to propel us from 2nd to 1st. Woodward is also the man who has not hired a DoF.

While on the subject of DoF, a DoF is not going to be the magic bullet that some people think it will be. I also said the same when Jose was fired.
I've said it already. The lack of DOF was down to

a- reluctance from Mou's part
b- Woody's incompetence which is quite evident when considering our contract negotiations with the likes of Herrera and DDG.

We removed A but B is still there

The DOF role is no silver bullet especially if some rookie like Fletcher is employed. However if the right person is hired with the right experience and the right powers to act then it would be an important first step to sort this mess out
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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But like I said, everything I've used to assess Mourinho's tenure is factual.
Well, like most people (myself included no doubt) you start with a layer of facts, then add your own subjective take on it - i.e. 'he's a shite manager', 'he was a failure'. It's quite possible to look at those bare facts and come up with a different take - I mean the sheer amount of trophies that he's won would seem to be evidence against him being 'shite', and some might argue that 2 trophies and a 2nd place finish in 2 seasons (after taking over a squad of players totally unsuited for his style of play) does not represent a failure.

It's possible to have an unbiased view he was a rubbish manager you know.
Well yeah, in the same way it is possible to have an unbiased view that is different to your take. But ultimately I only got involved in this cos you accused a different poster of being biased, stated that you were just a casual observer, and then proceeded to rip Mourinho to shreds. Just felt a little hypocritical, that's all. No biggie.
 
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el3mel

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Sorry, you're right. You are entitled for that person to tweet what you want, because they are employed privately by a newspaper you don't pay for.
No, I expect a journalist to write better and more constructed tweets than any no name on Twitter.
 

Tomuś

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Fred - £52 million
Pogba - £89
Lukaku - £80
Matic - £40
Bailly - £30

That has to be the worst spent £300 million in history. A Klopp or a Pochettino would guarantee you far more for your money. A club like Lyon could get you 5 better players than that with a £50 million budget.

Jose Mourinho was every bit a disaster as Van Gaal and Moyes.
All hindsight, though, isn't it. The vast majority on here were happy with those. As they were with Schweinsteiger, Falcao, Di Maria, Schneiderlin, Sanchez etc. Only Lukaku divided opinions. Now it's easy to blame the managers.
 

okhuenchik

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Fred - £52 million
Pogba - £89
Lukaku - £80
Matic - £40
Bailly - £30

That has to be the worst spent £300 million in history. A Klopp or a Pochettino would guarantee you far more for your money. A club like Lyon could get you 5 better players than that with a £50 million budget.
Mourinho wasn't the one negotiating or paying the fees though. He's also not a scout. So why are you blaming him for something that wasn't his responsibility?
It's all Woodward and his team.
 

NK86

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So I cannot be concerned with such an inexperienced manager and still think the club beyond him is a mess? Are you even thinking before you quote me?

The biggest problems are the Glazers, the board and Woodward. Beyond that, Ole has no track record to show he should be in charge of this rebuild.
You didn't seem to have a problem with a manager who is known to be a disruptive person and someone who has history of having bust ups with his best players.

Look I am with you in that Glazers, Woodward are leeches and that Ole is not a proven entity. However that does not ever excuse Jose for the shite he tried to pull off on his final season here.
 

Jim Beam

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Well, like most people (myself included no doubt) you start with a layer of facts, then add your own subjective take on it - i.e. 'he's a shite manager', 'he was a failure'. It's quite possible to look at those bare facts and come up with a different take - I mean the sheer amount of trophies that he's won would seem to be evidence against him being 'shite', and some might argue that 2 trophies and a 2nd place finish in 2 seasons (after taking over a squad of players totally unsuited for his style of play) does not represent a failure.
He is not shit manager, he is just past his best. You could even argue, results looking, he was not that bad.

That said, for a manager who made 15 a year, his last season was pathetic. He gave up, went in full destruction mode and looked like he wanted out. He got enourmous amount of money, except last summer and he was so toxic that we had one of biggest manager bounce in football history with Ole after he left.

People even started looking somewhat positevelly at LVG time which is nonsense like Ole now makes him look relatively good. He failed and there was no long term plan behind his tenure like Ed doesn't have one now. Me, me, me.... and United after that distant second.
 

Jim Beam

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Mourinho wasn't the one negotiating or paying the fees though. He's also not a scout. So why are you blaming him for something that wasn't his responsibility?
It's all Woodward and his team.
He wanted Pogba. If you want him we had to pay that price. Lukaku also. Ed has his faults, but starting spinning everything on him isn't right also.

And he absolutely wanted Sanchez for crazy money.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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He is not shit manager, he is just past his best. You could even argue, results looking, he was not that bad.

That said, for a manager who made 15 a year, his last season was pathetic. He gave up, went in full destruction mode and looked like he wanted out. He got enourmous amount of money, except last summer and he was so toxic that we had one of biggest manager bounce in football history with Ole after he left.

People even started looking somewhat positevelly at LVG time which is nonsense like Ole now makes him look relatively good. He failed and there was no long term plan behind his tenure like Ed doesn't have one now. Me, me, me.... and United after that distant second.
well I wouldn't disagree with much of that, but I do think it has to be tempered by the fact that when you bring in Mourinho you kind of know what you're getting. The club felt he was doing a good enough job to give him a new contract in early 2018, and then a) didn't back him in the transfer market that summer, and b) wouldn't back him to purge the club of the likes of Pogba and Martial - who, in their own ways, are seemingly posing similar problems for Ole now. He was absolutely proven right in terms of needing a new centre-half this season, and our wing play has been nonexistent at times, especially down the right - I know the likes of Willian and Perisic might not have been to everyone's tastes, but who's to say they wouldn't hve been better than what we've seen this season? Things had certainly gone toxic last season, and we certainly needed a change by that point - but I would say the Ed, the board, and certain players also need to share a big chunk of that blame. All too easy for some to put all the blame on Mourinho cos they never wanted him in the first place.
 

Jim Beam

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well I wouldn't disagree with much of that, but I do think it has to be tempered by the fact that when you bring in Mourinho you kind of know what you're getting. The club felt he was doing a good enough job to give him a new contract in early 2018, and then a) didn't back him in the transfer market that summer, and b) wouldn't back him to purge the club of the likes of Pogba and Martial - who, in their own ways, are seemingly posing similar problems for Ole now. He was absolutely proven right in terms of needing a new centre-half this season, and our wing play has been nonexistent at times, especially down the right - I know the likes of Willian and Perisic might not have been to everyone's tastes, but who's to say they wouldn't hve been better than what we've seen this season? Things had certainly gone toxic last season, and we certainly needed a change by that point - but I would say the Ed, the board, and certain players also need to share a big chunk of that blame. All too easy for some to put all the blame on Mourinho cos they never wanted him in the first place.
Oh, absolutely. No chance we are in this state because of one person.
And we all knew things are going to shit after he wasn't backed in the summer, but still went on with him just waiting to implode.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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Oh, absolutely. No chance we are in this state because of one person.
And we all knew things are going to shit after he wasn't backed in the summer, but still went on with him just waiting to implode.
Yeah, the writing was on the wall wasn't it. In retrospect Woodward should have had the balls to fire him in the summer if he'd suddenly lost faith in him.
 

GM K

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If someone is serious about getting this club back to the top, they should go and collate every single thing Jose has said about United since he left, turn them into a working document and implement. They have been spot on.
 

Jim Beam

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If someone is serious about getting this club back to the top, they should go and collate every single thing Jose has said about United since he left, turn them into a working document and implement. They have been spot on.
Well, since he won't get a high profile job in the near future we have to listen to him now and then.

Not really sure what to listen from him? He is not saying anything revolutionary.
 

GM K

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Yeah, the writing was on the wall wasn't it. In retrospect Woodward should have had the balls to fire him in the summer if he'd suddenly lost faith in him.


This, for me, points to one of the most important reasons why our season fell apart. Jose should either have been sacked earlier or backed fully. What we did was unpardonable. We knew Jose's character and tendency to throw his toys out of the pram if he doesn't get what he wants, especially winning. So why in the world did we not back him fully during last summer since we did not sack him after the previous season? When I read a lot of analysis here, very few people point this major issue out. We shot ourselves in the foot.

Strange thing is that we are confronted with the same situation with Ole now. The Board had better fire him now if they have any doubts or FULLY back him. The middle ground will be slippery.
 

GM K

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Well, since he won't get a high profile job in the near future we have to listen to him now and then.

Not really sure what to listen from him? He is not saying anything revolutionary.
:lol:

I agree with you on that.

And no, he is not saying anything revolutionary. Just very pragmatic and relevant.