Mourinho comments about our season to L'Equipe

BringKlebersonBack

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With a City team finishing on 100 points, which was a new record originating from 1996 chelsea (!), in any other season, 81 points would be a title challenge.
But it wasn’t “any other season”, it was that season, and before Jose, the season before that one , and before that, and the one before that and...

We need to stop living in the past. The competition don’t care if this season’s points total would have won us the league in 2011, or finished us in the top four in 2017. They don’t care if in 2008, we won a Champions League, they don’t care if in 2012, we scored more back-heel overhead volleys from the left hand side of the d, with less than three touches in open play...no one cares. All they care about is that every single season, the bar is being raised, and they’re the ones doing it, while we’re bleating about “but in such and such year, this or that points total would have qualified us for the Haribo Cup.” God, it’s almost unfair that all these teams aren’t allowing us to transpose our 1991 league points total into 2019!

The league table is all that matters.
 
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Pogue Mahone

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All evidence points to this I’m afraid. Seriously, who watched Fred play and decided he was exactly what we needed?

How many other Premier League clubs do you have the CEO telling anyone who’ll listen that we deliberately didn’t go for defenders but we would’ve happily spent a fortune on a player not for sale? There’s no doubt Mourinho is a dick but ultimately he wanted to win. Does Woodward care if we win? I don’t think so. That’s where the problem lies for me.
For me, it just keeps coming back to the money that Woodward did spend.

Maybe being denied his last two or three pieces in the jigsaw this summer really was the difference between 6th place and winning the league (or at least punching our fecking weight at the top end of the table) I can't be certain about that. What I can be certain about is that Mourinho's reaction to not getting the players he wanted last summer was as toxic as you'd expect from a man who took Chelsea down to 16th place, the last time he wasn't allowed sign every player he wants. That's why I mention Pochetino. As an example of a manager who knuckles down and just fecking gets on with it. Plays with the cards he has on the table. And in his case, he's dealing with an obstructive boss that is on a completely different level to what Mourinho had to deal with.

I'm sure Woodward is a difficult man to work with but he did sign off a fecking enormous spending spree for Mourinho, so it's a pretty poor effort from Mourinho to throw his toys out of the pram as soon as he had one fallow transfer window.
 
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MackRobinson

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It's amazing how random people on a forum or in the street think that they know more than a man who was the manager and has worked in elite football for near 30 years.
Appeal to authority. This means I can quote this post anytime I see you give a football opinion.
 

MackRobinson

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Then why start it? 2 points per game is different to 1.9 per game, wtf are you on about? Why not round it 1 point per game for Jose, just to suit your agenda. I asked you how did you calculate it, because in PL it's not 2.0 before you threw your toys out of the pram.

Don't bother responding if you don't have anything constructive to say.
As a casual observer you have bent over backwards to excuse Jose in this thread. If you like the guy that fine but let's not act as if you are an unbiased party.

Fact remains that Jose did worse this season with his own team, than a caretaker manager from the Norwegian leagues. Mourinho is a once great now shite manager who was rightfully sacked (I would argue he should have been sacked a bit earlier). If he is a given another chance to manage a big club, the same shiteshow is bound to happen.
 

Ekeke

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I think that's about as rose-tinted favourable view of Ole as is earthly possible. Do you honestly think we should not have done much much much better in the last couple of months?

So if Ole struggles next season, it will be because of Mourinho?

The 2-3 months of good results is on Ole and the players, the 2 months of relegation form is on Ole and the players. I don't think there are any valid excuses for the dreadful last 2 months.
I think we should have done better, but we were spoilt with the run of form he got us on. People expected too much too soon. If all those good results were interspliced with the last few months results, it would still be better than Mourinho did this season and thats without spending any money and working entirely with the mess Mourinho left us in.

So he obviously deserves a transfer window like Mourinho, LVG and Moyes had before him. Its silly to judge him before that because none of our other managers had the same circumstances.

If he doesnt do better with his own signings and time to mould the team to how he wants to play, then we need to find someone else. But he came in to get more from the players and thats exactly what he did, just too soon for his own good because now you're forgetting it
 

MackRobinson

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Why aren't they considering the 2.13 ppg at all? Jose was at his peak. Of course, that wasn't a good season for the standards we expected but it was better than 1.9 ppg, wasn't it?

And let's face it, if Ole had more than 21 games, there is a likelihood of that 1.9 ppg going down rather than up considering how our form has fallen off a cliff.
It was all downhill from the second half of the season though, Sevilla accelerating that slide. The points we earned in the first half of the season did stand us in good stead though, and the collapse wasn't too great to cause a major upset.
Answered your own question. Jose was a shite manager.
 

Bastian

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I think we should have done better, but we were spoilt with the run of form he got us on. People expected too much too soon. If all those good results were interspliced with the last few months results, it would still be better than Mourinho did this season and thats without spending any money and working entirely with the mess Mourinho left us in.

So he obviously deserves a transfer window like Mourinho, LVG and Moyes had before him. Its silly to judge him before that because none of our other managers had the same circumstances.

If he doesnt do better with his own signings and time to mould the team to how he wants to play, then we need to find someone else. But he came in to get more from the players and thats exactly what he did, just too soon for his own good because now you're forgetting it
I agree that he overachieved when he came in and of course that form was not going to last, no matter who the manager was. And the time to adequately judge Ole will be in the coming season. But he should have done a hell of a lot better in the last couple of months in my opinion, and it is alarming that he's changed his tune 180 from that early period.

A few notable things that concerned me: Saying we don't need a new defender. Extending Jones' contract and hyping him up. Saying we're a fantastically well run club with great structure. Repeatedly saying agent are getting in touch because so many players want to join us. Going from romanticising about the glory days to saying we need to look over our shoulders at the chasing pack for top 6. And the absolutely inept performances of late.
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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As a casual observer you have bent over backwards to excuse Jose in this thread. If you like the guy that fine but let's not act as if you are an unbiased party.

Fact remains that Jose did worse this season with his own team, than a caretaker manager from the Norwegian leagues. Mourinho is a once great now shite manager who was rightfully sacked (I would argue he should have been sacked a bit earlier). If he is a given another chance to manage a big club, the same shiteshow is bound to happen.
Answered your own question. Jose was a shite manager.
Thank goodness for your - definitely unbiased - opinion!
 

Enigma_87

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As a casual observer you have bent over backwards to excuse Jose in this thread. If you like the guy that fine but let's not act as if you are an unbiased party.

Fact remains that Jose did worse this season with his own team, than a caretaker manager from the Norwegian leagues. Mourinho is a once great now shite manager who was rightfully sacked (I would argue he should have been sacked a bit earlier). If he is a given another chance to manage a big club, the same shiteshow is bound to happen.
Not really. I've said it multiple times Jose needed to be sacked and deserved to be sacked. Was better for all parties.

Since Summer shenanigans and as soon as him and the board looked in different directions he should've walked. Said it just before he was sacked and after it.

He wasn't backed from the board that much is clear - but he was also victim of his own persona for that.

Yes I've backed him since he was appointed and since Fergie to me he was our best manager in terms of results.

When the atmosphere became toxic he was rightfully sacked - on that base and also on result base.

To me he deserved the time he got (2 years and a half) due to results and credentials - for which he was hired for.
 

VP89

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Yep that's definitely it. He's rubbish and nothing more than checkbook manager (and he's not even good at that tbf). Celtic is about his level at this point.
:lol: sure thing mate.
 

acnumber9

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For me, it just keeps coming back to the money that Woodward did spend.

Maybe being denied his last two or three pieces in the jigsaw this summer really was the difference between 6th place and winning the league (or at least punching our fecking weight at the top end of the table) I can't be certain about that. What I can be certain about is that Mourinho's reaction to not getting the players he wanted last summer was as toxic as you'd expect from a man who took Chelsea down to 16th place, the last time he wasn't allowed sign every player he wants. That's why I mention Pochetino. As an example of a manager who knuckles down and just fecking gets on with it. Plays with the cards he has on the table. And in his case, he's dealing with an obstructive boss that is on a completely different level to what Mourinho had to deal with.

I'm sure Woodward is a difficult man to work with but he did sign off a fecking enormous spending spree for Mourinho, so it's a pretty poor effort from Mourinho to throw his toys out of the pram as soon as he had one fallow transfer window.
I don’t disagree that Mourinho reacted the wrong way and threw his toys out of the park but anyone could’ve told you that would happen. Despite this Woodward went ahead and gave him a new contract and watched the inevitable unfold before acting.

I just believe looking at a wage bill or money spent is far too simplistic without knowing for certain who is to blame for the bad signings. What I do know is that for all his faults Mourinho has won league titles everywhere he’s been but United. That for me is enough to think that Mourinho was not the sole or even biggest problem.
 

Ekeke

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I agree that he overachieved when he came in and of course that form was not going to last, no matter who the manager was. And the time to adequately judge Ole will be in the coming season. But he should have done a hell of a lot better in the last couple of months in my opinion, and it is alarming that he's changed his tune 180 from that early period.

A few notable things that concerned me: Saying we don't need a new defender. Extending Jones' contract and hyping him up. Saying we're a fantastically well run club with great structure. Repeatedly saying agent are getting in touch because so many players want to join us. Going from romanticising about the glory days to saying we need to look over our shoulders at the chasing pack for top 6. And the absolutely inept performances of late.
I cant disagree with most of that, but I dont know that the Jones deal is fully down to him. I would think it makes sense to extend his contract so that he has some value for when he leaves eventually. But hopefully he didnt get a sizable wage increase because that I couldnt agree with.
 

Kapardin

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Answered your own question. Jose was a shite manager.
Well, what makes it so sure Ole isn't? I accept that Jose deserved to be sacked as he underperformed (I'm no Jose fan btw, wanted him gone) and also pointed out he had a higher ppg in his best season. You simply took both those comments of mine out of context.
 

MackRobinson

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Not really. I've said it multiple times Jose needed to be sacked and deserved to be sacked. Was better for all parties.

Since Summer shenanigans and as soon as him and the board looked in different directions he should've walked. Said it just before he was sacked and after it.

He wasn't backed from the board that much is clear - but he was also victim of his own persona for that.

Yes I've backed him since he was appointed and since Fergie to me he was our best manager in terms of results.

When the atmosphere became toxic he was rightfully sacked - on that base and also on result base.

To me he deserved the time he got (2 years and a half) due to results and credentials - for which he was hired for.
He wasn't backed to the tune of half a billions pounds :lol:

Problem is Jose thinks United are a Football Manager save where you can adjust sliders or trick the CPU. After the way 17/18 ended only a fool would think he would be allowed to spend another 200M. This was the same guy who said United would challenge and this was his team after the summer of 17/18. The fact that Ole performed better than Jose with Jose's team says all I need to hear. Crap manager.

:lol: sure thing mate.
I'm glad we agree about something so obvious. Let me know if you need me to steer you in the right direction again. :)
 

Pogue Mahone

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I don’t disagree that Mourinho reacted the wrong way and threw his toys out of the park but anyone could’ve told you that would happen. Despite this Woodward went ahead and gave him a new contract and watched the inevitable unfold before acting.

I just believe looking at a wage bill or money spent is far too simplistic without knowing for certain who is to blame for the bad signings. What I do know is that for all his faults Mourinho has won league titles everywhere he’s been but United. That for me is enough to think that Mourinho was not the sole or even biggest problem.
Yeah, that was infuriating.

Similarly, not waiting until the summer to sign a permanent manager is hard to understand. Especially now Poch is making noises about moving on from Spurs.

As with all these things, I'd say the truth is in the middle. Mourinho was the wrong man for the job and Woodward made his job harder than it needed to be.

Of course, Woodward is also to blame for hiring Mou in the first place...
 

MackRobinson

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Well, what makes it so sure Ole isn't? I accept that Jose deserved to be sacked as he underperformed (I'm no Jose fan btw, wanted him gone) and also pointed out he had a higher ppg in his best season. You simply took both those comments of mine out of context.
What? I didn't take anything out of context :lol:

You asked why nobody is considering the 2.13 at all. I merely pointed out where you answered your own question (a shite second half of the season). Whether or not you are a fan of Jose is irrelevant
 

Enigma_87

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He wasn't backed to the tune of half a billions pounds :lol:
It wasn't half a billion but whatever. :)

He wasn't backed in the Summer, you can't deny that.

What would've happened if he received 200m more or whatever is pure speculation. Klopp and Pep didn't spend less in any case.

No one with his resume can be called crap manager, spending or not.
 

Kapardin

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What? I didn't take anything out of context :lol:

You asked why nobody is considering the 2.13 at all. I merely pointed out where you answered your own question (a shite second half of the season). Whether or not you are a fan of Jose is irrelevant
Nope, you said "he was thus a shite manager" which isn't an answer to why nobody is considering his best ppg. In fact, him being a shite or great manager has no relevance to comparing his ppg with Ole's, as we are going by stats alone.

Shite second half of the season however did not mean the ppg wasn't 2.13, was it? How is Jose being shite or not even relevant to the discussion of Ole vs Jose in terms of stats?

I think you barged in on the wrong discussion. You should have quoted someone who was defending Jose, rather than one who was comparing stats of 2 managers without claiming either was shite or great.
 

Buster15

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Spend the 2nd highest budget. Finish 2nd. 19 points off the 1st . Great achievement Mourinho!!
It certainly was.
And where did we finish this season and by how many points off first.
 

RedCurry

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It certainly was.
And where did we finish this season and by how many points off first.
I think the point is, with the type of money he spent, we shouldn't have been talking about yet another rebuild.
 

TRUERED89

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It's amazing how random people on a forum or in the street think that they know more than a man who was the manager and has worked in elite football for near 30 years.
Jose fan I see, football is all about opinions, some we will agree with and some we'll think is total bollocks. In your opinion then since Jose knows everything was he right in saying "its not a shock to be knocked out by Sevilla, why are the fans getting upset this happens often" ??
 

Champagne Football

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Yes Utd have a lot of problems, but would the Self-obsessed one ever hold himself accountable for a £400 million spend, where only Lindelof is possibly the only signing both good enough and with the right mental attitude to be in the first XI?

Has the Self-obsessed one ever taken the blame for any managerial messes he has left in the past?
 

MackRobinson

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It wasn't half a billion but whatever. :)

He wasn't backed in the Summer, you can't deny that.

What would've happened if he received 200m more or whatever is pure speculation. Klopp and Pep didn't spend less in any case.

No one with his resume can be called crap manager, spending or not.
~400M + the Sanchez swap. Let's not argue semantics. He was given a treasure chest every manager bar Pep and Tuchel would envy.

He was backed as much as a sane football club would realistically back a manager who was already allowed to bring in 10 players over 4 transfer windows.

Klopp selling Coutinho was the only reason they splashed the cash they did. Don't be ridiculous. Liverpool would never spend as much as United did without offloading players.

You're too obsessed with resumes. Time doesn't sit still for accomplishments. A good manager today can be be past it in 3 years. Same thing happens with players. Same thing happens in non-football related jobs. Jose's resume did feck all for United.
 

Celoti23-81

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I think the point is, with the type of money he spent, we shouldn't have been talking about yet another rebuild.
To be fair, we don't need a rebuild, we need to add in key positions, like right back and right wing. Centre back, midfielder etc! If solskjaer has anything about him, and he is even close to be mentioned in the same breath as pep, klopp and Poch, he will be tactically astute and be able to make players he has better! Anybody telling me milner, Henderson and wijnaldum are a better midfield than we have are deluded!
Unfortunately I think Ole does not have the traits of the above coaches! But he might bring in a more balanced look for the next manager!
 

Craig Ward

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To be fair, we don't need a rebuild, we need to add in key positions, like right back and right wing. Centre back, midfielder etc! If solskjaer has anything about him, and he is even close to be mentioned in the same breath as pep, klopp and Poch, he will be tactically astute and be able to make players he has better! Anybody telling me milner, Henderson and wijnaldum are a better midfield than we have are deluded!
Unfortunately I think Ole does not have the traits of the above coaches! But he might bring in a more balanced look for the next manager!
We don't need a rebuild?

How can you say that with 3, sometimes 4 of our back 5 being Fergie signings!

I would take any Liverpool midfielder over ours right now. Look how they play and look how we play, delusion is the right word but we have a squad not fit for purpose.

We have bad attitudes, years of bad signings for the wrong reasons.

A re-build is exactly what we need.

You cant do it all in 1 window, but we have at least 10 players who need to be sold.

Jones/Smalling/Rojo/Darmian/Young/Pogba/Fred/Sanchez/Lingard/Martial all have no place for me. For form/attitude various reasons.
 

MackRobinson

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Nope, you said "he was thus a shite manager" which isn't an answer to why nobody is considering his best ppg. In fact, him being a shite or great manager has no relevance to comparing his ppg with Ole's, as we are going by stats alone.

Shite second half of the season however did not mean the ppg wasn't 2.13, was it? How is Jose being shite or not even relevant to the discussion of Ole vs Jose in terms of stats?

I think you barged in on the wrong discussion. You should have quoted someone who was defending Jose, rather than one who was comparing stats of 2 managers without claiming either was shite or great.
You completely missed or ignored the point. Let's try this again:
Why aren't they considering the 2.13 ppg at all?
It was all downhill from the second half of the season though, Sevilla accelerating that slide.
Answered your own question.
I could also write it as "Nobody cares about 2.13 ppg because of United's diabolical form under Jose in the second half of last season, just like you said". See how it has nothing to do with your stance on Jose? My comment about Jose being shite was my own and I didn't attribute it to you.

So no, I didn't barge into the wrong discussion and yes I understood everything that was discussed.
 

Grande

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The club is in a bad state at the moment there is no denying that but the players Jose bought on his watch are on par or if not worse than what we already had. He failed miserably all on his own.
Which would you rather discuss, based on the OP: What are the issues at Man United, or what are the issues with Jose Mourinho?

The first interest me more, and while this interview doesn’t say much - knowing Joe - then whatever in it can be seen as a polemic inuendo, probably is. So the player he bought/got and built his team around, Pogba, is pointed out, yes, but also made clear it goes much deeper. Martial is pointed out, but it goes further.

The ‘2nd place was brilliant’ comments repeated repeatedly to me suggests two things: He was not content with the player pool, and given that many of the players arrived at his watch, I take it to mean that he wasn’t happy with neither the process of bringing players in, nor the lack of players moving on, particularly in his first and third summer window. This is fairly consistent with interviews he’s made previously. So it’s Woodward, of course, but possibly also Marcel Bout, or even the whole set up.

I’m guessing Mourinho would have moved on Mkhi and Shaw fairly early on, and Martial and Pogba when he saw that they couldn’t or wouldn’t adapt or develop thwir game as he wished, to bring new players in. We know he complained about low confidence, immatture attitude and lack of tactical awareness. I’m guessing he implies that the set up can’t identify these factors in a player, and doesn’t support the manager when he needs to move someone on to improve these aspects of the squad.

We know Ferguson did such numbers constantly, he could ask for a player, or develop a player, and if he found he didn’t have the right personality or whatever, he would move him on snappish (like Veron, Ince, Sharpe, Beckham). This is how he would rebuild the mentality of the group.

Mourinho was a breath of sour air, possibly a dinosaur (I’m not so sure about that yet) and with a short term personality. But if he’s still right about meeting obstacles in building a winning group of footballers from within the setup, I suspect Ferguson, Solskjær and anyone else would also struggle with that.