Mourinho marginalised our scouts

Adnan

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If the below article from Simon Mullock is true, then that explains why there was issues regarding certain transfers. Our scouts and Mourinho'a scouts had a difference of opinion it seems. Woodward had to back our scouts.

"United’s scouting network has come under scrutiny following Mourinho’s departure. The club now have 60 scouts at their disposal around the world.

But chief scout Jim Lawlor and head of development John Murtough were marginalised by Mourinho during his two-and-a-half year reign in Manchester.

The Portuguese preferred to use his own trusted network of scouts and agents when it came to recruiting players.

That led to a difference of opinion on the players Mourinho felt were required and those the United board were willing to buy.

An Old Trafford insider said: “The club has a vast army of scouts, but they were frustrated by Mourinho’s refusal to listen.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/inside-story-jose-mourinhos-man-13770482
 

Adnan

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Our scouts took alot of abuse on here, but if they were marginalised in favour of non club scouts, then that explains why we signed so many duds under Mourinho.
 

Ashley R1+O

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Just another to add to the list of weirdities to be happy with resolving now that he is gone. Lets hope there is no floater left in the bowl.
 

mu4c_20le

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Our scouts also wanted De Ligt and De Jong a year before they became hot property.
 

devilish

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They shouldn't have downed tools and still perform. Am i doing it right keano?
 

Web of Bissaka

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Idk, it's mirror.

Anyhow, I think our scouts are fine. Not their fault if the one in charge are not interested in their scouting reports. I don't get the blame and criticisms our scouts receive from our fans, just because Mou blame them, shifting responsibilities.

Pretty sure the players we signed are mostly Mourinho's personal scouting.
  • Zlatan -- definitely Mou.
  • Bailly -- very likely Mou, his performance in Spanish league especially vs Ronaldo is impressive.
  • Mkhitaryan -- impressive form best player at German league the previous season? Mou's team always seem to have that at least one good fast flair energetic attacker but with good defensive workrate. He just couldn't predict Mkhi can't adapt to his defensive demands. This is also may be the first bargaining chip to get to Pogba's agent good side. It's like 2-in-1 supposedly the plan is.
  • Lindelof -- Portuguese league, Mou, he watched him play.
  • Dalot -- same.
  • Joel Pereira -- same.
  • Matic -- yeap, totally Mou.
  • Lukaku -- same, we need a 20+ goals EPL striker at that time. His physique, heights and all is a personal fav of Mou.
Special case,
  • Pogba -- likely a combination of both Mou scouting him and our scouts, bet our scouts have been keeping tab on Paul always ever since he left. Mou's team always have at least one quality playmaker. Even more tempting is Pogba's physique, heights and strength.
---

I highly doubt this is totally Mou's selection, more like Mou's demand + our scout's recommendations.
  • Sanchez -- Mou, he have been complaining all half of months long on getting a shiny new toy as an attacker. Mkhi fail and Perisic bid fail. Mou over the moon with this one at first. Terrible contract negotiation, but whatever. A good golden opportunity to steal a fantastic player from City at that time, so at least they won't improve with a darn good EPL proven quality player.
  • Fred -- wanted a brazilian player, and a new midfielder to complete his midfield selection (he made noises about it) and he got a 2-in-1 brazil national team player from a small league fish. Bet our scout recommend him. Supposedly we can milk the deal and save money with this but for some reason, the ones who do the negotiation is shit? or lose under pressure to Mou's demands, wasting more money. Mou over the moon with this one at first.
  • Grant -- english keeper. Likely Mou told our scout to get him a good 3rd choice keeper, because of Romero's injury and J. Pereira needed loans.
 

Eric's Seagull

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When considering the amount of scouts we have I've heard from 50+ including an academy I thought we would have brought a few decent players through.
I understand there are y ever going to be X amount of players about ever on the level of eg Neymar but I though we would have produced a few stars who would have been in the football now, may be its because Jose didn't care much for developing players he liked the finished article too much.

By Jose not listening to scouts just shows he's a twat. Thinks he us bigger and knows about more than anybody or anything that football.The "Toxic One" now I fell better was sacked the narcissistic git.
 
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Adnan

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When considering the amount of scouts we have I've heard from 50+ including an academy I thought we would have brought a few decent players through.
I understand there are y ever going to be X amount of players about ever on the level of eg Neymar but I though we would have produced a few stars who would have been in the football now, may be its because Jose didn't care much for developing players he liked the finished article too much.
We have alot of very good young players on our books to be fair and are reportedly on the verge of signing a very exciting 16 year old winger from Amiens in France, ahead of PSG and Juventus. Our scouts seem to be doing a good job imo.

Mourinho had a abysmal record of promoting youth. Our scouts can only do so much if managers like Mourinho are unwilling to give the younger players a chance.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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So you're telling me that we missed out on the next Darmian, Schneiderlin, Di Maria, Falcao and Fellaini?

There are many sticks to beat Mourinho with. This isn't one of them.
 

Eric's Seagull

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We have alot of very good young players on our books to be fair and are reportedly on the verge of signing a very exciting 16 year old winger from Amiens in France, ahead of PSG and Juventus. Our scouts seem to be doing a good job imo.

Mourinho had a abysmal record of promoting youth. Our scouts can only do so much if managers like Mourinho are unwilling to give the younger players a chance.
Thanks for letting me know we had so many promising players on our books, I heard about us signing that French youngster which seems a major plus. I read somewhere that the work of our academy is starting to pay off as that was supposedly a major issue Woody identified.

Totally agree with the bit on bold and makes me dislike Jose even more, thee must have made the scouts feel like sh1t as well if they can see promising player they have identified go other places and thrive when Jose wont look at then unless they are 17 and at least 6' as an example.
 

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So it looks like not getting a DoF before booting out the dullard was a good call after all. If the scouts were being undermined, what better would the DoF fare?

Wonder if he was the real cause behind Ribalta's departure.
 

Eric's Seagull

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So it looks like not getting a DoF before booting out the dullard was a good call after all. If the scouts were being undermined, what better would the DoF fare?

Wonder if he was the real cause behind Ribalta's departure.
Never thought of it life that before. Thinking of it now could well me mate. He a cnut and an unpleasent one and I'm glad he had no further opportunity to damage out club anymore
 

liamp

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It's one thing to have a wide range of scouts...it's another thing to be able to coalesce that information in order to make good decisions. That article specifically mentions Jim Lawlor ("Chief Scout") and John Murtough (Head of Football Development) being marginalized. If he didn't feel like they provided good input, that's not an unreasonable thing for him, as the manager, to do.

Lawlor's a relic from the Fergie era and Murtough was a Moyes hire. To add to the confusion, you also have Marcel Bout (brought in by LVG) who's the "Head of Global Scouting" and you had Javier Ribalta (brought in by Woodward) in all this mess until recently as "Head Scout". Honestly the whole scouting setup sounds like a fecking Frankenstein's monster shit show so I really don't blame Jose for choosing to just go with people that he knows.
 

Adnan

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So you're telling me that we missed out on the next Darmian, Schneiderlin, Di Maria, Falcao and Fellaini?

There are many sticks to beat Mourinho with. This isn't one of them.
Fellaini was straight up a Moyes signing. Falcao and Di Maria didn't need scouting due to them being household names. Darmian and Schneiderlin would've been known to most top clubs.

It was reported after SAF retired that we had Thiago, Strootman and Ander Herrera as targets but Moyes was keen on Fellaini and Baines instead.
 

Eric's Seagull

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So you're telling me that we missed out on the next Darmian, Schneiderlin, Di Maria, Falcao and Fellaini?

There are many sticks to beat Mourinho with. This isn't one of them.
Think it could be but not one to beat him with while he was here as it would further destabilise they club. Of course I could be wrong.
 

mariachi-19

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So you're telling me that we missed out on the next Darmian, Schneiderlin, Di Maria, Falcao and Fellaini?

There are many sticks to beat Mourinho with. This isn't one of them.
What? Schneiderlin was one of the best defensive midfielders in the league when we signed him, Di Maria just came off a motm cl final and was playing out of his skin, and Falcao was one of the best Strikers in europe (although recovering from an ACL injury hence why we only loaned him)...

You're argument is pointless. Just because players didnt come to United under two managers who play pragmatic and possession football, doesn't mean they're crap. The Di Maria had moments of absolutely brilliance for us until LVG lost the plot.
 

Eric's Seagull

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What? Schneiderlin was one of the best defensive midfielders in the league when we signed him, Di Maria just came off a motm cl final and was playing out of his skin, and Falcao was one of the best Strikers in europe (although recovering from an ACL injury hence why we only loaned him)...

You're argument is pointless. Just because players didnt come to United under two managers who play pragmatic and possession football, doesn't mean they're crap. The Di Maria had moments of absolutely brilliance for us until LVG lost the plot.
Right bro
 

MDFC Manager

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They shouldn't have downed tools and still perform. Am i doing it right keano?
:lol:

Never thought of it life that before. Thinking of it now could well me mate. He a cnut and an unpleasent one and I'm glad he had no further opportunity to damage out club anymore
True that. Giving him that contract extension when all this was going on in the background, was utter stupidity by the board.
 

Adnan

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It's one thing to have a wide range of scouts...it's another thing to be able to coalesce that information in order to make good decisions. That article specifically mentions Jim Lawlor ("Chief Scout") and John Murtough (Head of Football Development) being marginalized. If he didn't feel like they provided good input, that's not an unreasonable thing for him, as the manager, to do.

Lawlor's a relic from the Fergie era and Murtough was a Moyes hire. To add to the confusion, you also have Marcel Bout (brought in by LVG) who's the "Head of Global Scouting" and you had Javier Ribalta (brought in by Woodward) in all this mess until recently as "Head Scout". Honestly the whole scouting setup sounds like a fecking Frankenstein's monster shit show so I really don't blame Jose for choosing to just go with people that he knows.
They probably disagreed with Mourinho on his targets like Perisic over Martial. Lindelof over someone like Tuanzebe who was showing great promise in the games he was given. Willian over Martial..
 

Eric's Seagull

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:lol:


True that. Giving him that contract extension when all this was going on in the background, was utter stupidity by the board.
I heard the extension was because PSG were reportedly sniffing around, not sure if there is much in it, if he showed a bit of loyalty he would told the where to feck off too and there wouldn't have been anything said about a new contract but he adores the limelight mate.
 

MDFC Manager

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I heard the extension was because PSG were reportedly sniffing around, not sure if there is much in it, if he showed a bit of loyalty he would told the where to feck off too and there wouldn't have been anything said about a new contract but he adores the limelight mate.
The only loyalty when it comes to Mourinho, is the undying loyalty his acolytes have for him.
 

Patrick08

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Idk, it's mirror.

Anyhow, I think our scouts are fine. Not their fault if the one in charge are not interested in their scouting reports. I don't get the blame and criticisms our scouts receive from our fans, just because Mou blame them, shifting responsibilities.

Pretty sure the players we signed are mostly Mourinho's personal scouting.
  • Zlatan -- definitely Mou.
  • Bailly -- very likely Mou, his performance in Spanish league especially vs Ronaldo is impressive.
  • Mkhitaryan -- impressive form best player at German league the previous season? Mou's team always seem to have that at least one good fast flair energetic attacker but with good defensive workrate. He just couldn't predict Mkhi can't adapt to his defensive demands. This is also may be the first bargaining chip to get to Pogba's agent good side. It's like 2-in-1 supposedly the plan is.
  • Lindelof -- Portuguese league, Mou, he watched him play.
  • Dalot -- same.
  • Joel Pereira -- same.
  • Matic -- yeap, totally Mou.
  • Lukaku -- same, we need a 20+ goals EPL striker at that time. His physique, heights and all is a personal fav of Mou.
Special case,
  • Pogba -- likely a combination of both Mou scouting him and our scouts, bet our scouts have been keeping tab on Paul always ever since he left. Mou's team always have at least one quality playmaker. Even more tempting is Pogba's physique, heights and strength.
---

I highly doubt this is totally Mou's selection, more like Mou's demand + our scout's recommendations.
  • Sanchez -- Mou, he have been complaining all half of months long on getting a shiny new toy as an attacker. Mkhi fail and Perisic bid fail. Mou over the moon with this one at first. Terrible contract negotiation, but whatever. A good golden opportunity to steal a fantastic player from City at that time, so at least they won't improve with a darn good EPL proven quality player.
  • Fred -- wanted a brazilian player, and a new midfielder to complete his midfield selection (he made noises about it) and he got a 2-in-1 brazil national team player from a small league fish. Bet our scout recommend him. Supposedly we can milk the deal and save money with this but for some reason, the ones who do the negotiation is shit? or lose under pressure to Mou's demands, wasting more money. Mou over the moon with this one at first.
  • Grant -- english keeper. Likely Mou told our scout to get him a good 3rd choice keeper, because of Romero's injury and J. Pereira needed loans.
Mkh was really surprizing to me. Mane was basically a willian2.0 and he didn't even put in a bid for him expecting mkh to adapt to his work rate requirements.

My mind doesn't allow me to think mourinho has become this clueless to be honest. But may be he has judging by his work.
 

Adisa

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My reading from this is, the club would have invested in more players if Mourinho and scouts were working together. I don't think it means the signings made were scout signings or Mourinho signings.
In Jason Burt's article, it said scouts and Mourinho would hold meetings about planned scouted players only for Mourinho to bring up a name that wasn't on the list.
 

Raees

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I don’t think our scouting team has been fit for purpose even Pre Jose. The signings we made under Moyes and LVG were worse and latter years of Fergie - we brought badly.
 

Adisa

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I don’t think our scouting team has been fit for purpose even Pre Jose. The signings we made under Moyes and LVG were worse and latter years of Fergie - we brought badly.
First of all, we recently restructured our scouting system and we didn't really need scouts under Moyes.
Think the deoardepar is a lot better now.
 

redIndianDevil

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Fellaini was straight up a Moyes signing. Falcao and Di Maria didn't need scouting due to them being household names. Darmian and Schneiderlin would've been known to most top clubs.

It was reported after SAF retired that we had Thiago, Strootman and Ander Herrera as targets but Moyes was keen on Fellaini and Baines instead.
Don't think Moyes was keen on Fellaini at all, otherwise we would have signed him before his price went up due to a clause in Fellaini's contract. I remember us chasing Fabregas like idiots(Thiago had just left for Bayern and Barcelona would never have let go of another midfielder) and then the Herrera fiasco happened. Only when no other targets were available, we went for Fellaini and by then his price had increased.
 

redIndianDevil

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I had always thought that our scouts only signed young players for the academy. It seemed like managers had the say on signings for the main team, we were always going for big money signings or trying to buy household names, Moyes got to pick his targets, LvG did the same and so did Mourinho. We really need to streamline the player signing process and keep it separate from the manager/coach like all big clubs do now a days.
 

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It's the Mirror so it must be true, like the Sun and the other one that ran with the Sanchez bet story, right?
 

Adnan

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Don't think Moyes was keen on Fellaini at all, otherwise we would have signed him before his price went up due to a clause in Fellaini's contract. I remember us chasing Fabregas like idiots(Thiago had just left for Bayern and Barcelona would never have let go of another midfielder) and then the Herrera fiasco happened. Only when no other targets were available, we went for Fellaini and by then his price had increased.
Moyes did want to sign Fabregas but he was keen on Fellaini too. Moyes rated Fellaini very highly if you listen to how he speaks about him in such glowing terms. Moyes even described Fellaini as being the best midfielder in the BelgiumNT.
 

Adisa

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Don't think Moyes was keen on Fellaini at all, otherwise we would have signed him before his price went up due to a clause in Fellaini's contract. I remember us chasing Fabregas like idiots(Thiago had just left for Bayern and Barcelona would never have let go of another midfielder) and then the Herrera fiasco happened. Only when no other targets were available, we went for Fellaini and by then his price had increased.
Moyes wanted Fellaini. The reason for the shit show that summer was that we kept trying to buy Fellaini and Baines as a pair.
 

LoveFootball

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This, if true, justifies his "Einstein of football" comment. This man think he knows better than anyone else. I hated him even more the day he criticized Shaw saying that Shaw was playing with his brain. The man lives in his own world were he's the president of football confederation.

However, how comes we havn't signed the new Messi yet with this army of 60 scouts? What are day scouting for then? We should have atleast the new Messi and the new Ronaldo in our books by now.
 

ivaldo

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Oh good. Another article from a trash newspaper given precedent here.
 

Eric's Seagull

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The only loyalty when it comes to Mourinho, is the undying loyalty his acolytes have for him.
Perfect Phrasing and something which sums him up so perfectly mate. It's ironic he wants it (which he thinks he is entitled too)all but expects to give feck all in return. Perfect example of narcissistic behaviour
 

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That's the trouble with giving a manager so much power. He simply can ignore everyone around him and bring in his mates or his mates's players to the club while remaining unchallenged. That means that we'll probably pay more money for less value.

We need a top DOF who understand our values. The DOF would then select the manager and together they would bring in the players in line to those values
 

Eric's Seagull

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What are you going on about? Those are three (at the time of signing) very good players that alot of teams (bar perhaps for Schneiderlin) would look at seriously to sign. That comment was insinuating they were trash players before we signed them.

The Di Maria had moments of absolutely brilliance for us until LVG lost the plot.

I'll try to explain. I should have put it in bold in to emphasise which part of you point in bold.

What I said right bro was about some of the superb momemts of indibidual brilliance Di Maria had for us and I thought he was going to be a very good signing at one point.

If my point came across any other way than it should have mate I genuinely apologise sorry :)