Mourinho - not sticking to his principles

[Josep Dowling]

What has made Mourinho so successful in the past?

Generally it was having a solid back four, three in midfield, two pacey wide men and a big man upfront. This was his receipe was success at Porto, Chelsea, Inter Milan and Real.

Another factor was a settled 11. You could name his starting 11 at Chelsea every week.

Since he’s joined us we have had constant changes to our starting 11 and formation. At pre-season we were playing 3-5-2, this has now changed to 4-3-3. Why has he changed his formation? Last season we reverted to 4-2-3-1 at some points as well.

In terms of the squad selection it’s just constant changes. Even today, Darmian was ok last week. Dropped for Young who hasn’t played RB for a long time. Martial comes in for Sanchez. I suspect Pereira and Mata will be dropped next week as well now.

On the right he tries Mata. It works for one game, he then plays badly. Dropped for Rashford. That doesn’t work, he plays Lingard. That doesn’t work go back to Mata again.

With his transfer activity he has bought just 2 defenders. Both of which are CBs. Both don’t look like Mourinho type CBs. If defensive solidity is so important why has not been more of a priority? I know we have needed to strengthen all over the pitch but for me CM was the least of our problems in the summer.

Why has he not stuck to his tried and tested formula?

 

[lilcurt]

If only we had a thread discussing Jose... Particularly his performance...

 

[steffyr2]

What has made Mourinho so successful in the past?

Generally it was having a solid back four, three in midfield, two pacey wide men and a big man upfront. This was his receipe was success at Porto, Chelsea, Inter Milan and Real.

Another factor was a settled 11. You could name his starting 11 at Chelsea every week.

Since he’s joined us we have had constant changes to our starting 11 and formation. At pre-season we were playing 3-5-2, this has now changed to 4-3-3. Why has he changed his formation? Last season we reverted to 4-2-3-1 at some points as well.

In terms of the squad selection it’s just constant changes. Even today, Darmian was ok last week. Dropped for Young who hasn’t played RB for a long time. Martial comes in for Sanchez. I suspect Pereira and Mata will be dropped next week as well now.

On the right he tries Mata. It works for one game, he then plays badly. Dropped for Rashford. That doesn’t work, he plays Lingard. That doesn’t work go back to Mata again.

With his transfer activity he has bought just 2 defenders. Both of which are CBs. Both don’t look like Mourinho type CBs. If defensive solidity is so important why has not been more of a priority? I know we have needed to strengthen all over the pitch but for me CM was the least of our problems in the summer.

Why has he not stuck to his tried and tested formula?

Someone told him to play Martial.

Either that or someone (besides people here) complained that he wasn't playing Lindelof and Bailly together.

 

[Sylar]

Probably cos he doesnt have the players, wasnt left with an abundance of talent and isnt being allowed to bring all the players that he wants to play that style fully. (hey, perisic probably wont sell shirts after all)

 

[Bastian]

Probably cos he doesnt have the players, wasnt left with an abundance of talent and isnt being allowed to bring all the players that he wants to play that style fully. (hey, perisic probably wont sell shirts after all)

/thread.

 

[Eyepopper]

Darmian was wank last week and Young hadn't had enough training.

Sanchez is injured.

Mata is pretty much our only option on the right unless we don't want to have a striker on the bench.

Pereria will/may be dropped once Matic is back.

And we don't have a CB that can stay fit for longer than 5 minutes.

 

[#07]

Probably cos he doesnt have the players, wasnt left with an abundance of talent and isnt being allowed to bring all the players that he wants to play that style fully. (hey, perisic probably wont sell shirts after all)

QFT

 

[Chip Butty]

If only we had a thread discussing Jose... Particularly his performance...

His better results historically have come when wearing loose fitting sports/casual attire. His change to a more formal and smarter action slacks and evening jacket/suit jacket, has caused him untold trouble. This could be key and add a deeper reason for his loss of results.

Or you could analyse his tactics and player management, again.

 

[redzombie]

Since he’s joined us we have had constant changes to our starting 11 and formation. At pre-season we were playing 3-5-2, this has now changed to 4-3-3. Why has he changed his formation?

wanted a CB, didnt get a CB

 

[pocco]

I feel like he didn't trust most of our players and is constantly giving them all chances until one steps up to the plate. It just never happens.

 

[Will Singh]

He’s principals are dated and I suspect he doesn’t want to do a Wenger!

 

[el3mel]

This team is by far the worst Mourinho team ever. It's every thing "anti-Mourinho' but it's very worrying that he failed to get the team plays the way he wants 3 years in charge now.

His teams are sold unit at the back and has quick transition from defense to offense. This team is shite defensively, over reliant on De Gea and very, very slow in the build up. This isn't a Mourinho team. How he's in 3rd year and still can't get it right is beyond me.

If the season ends up with him struggling to get the team play the way he wants, it'll be better for everyone to part away unfortunately. Shame as it would have been brilliant if he could make us quick counter attacking football team, but if it didn't work by the end of 3rd year it's never going to work. Maybe at this time we will have to accept the fact Mourinho and United aren't made for each other. The quality of players aren't helping him play the way he wants and he can't manage them to do it his own way.

Hopefully he'll figure it out through the season though.

 

[Ekeke]

What has made Mourinho so successful in the past?

Generally it was having a solid back four, three in midfield, two pacey wide men and a big man upfront. This was his receipe was success at Porto, Chelsea, Inter Milan and Real.

Another factor was a settled 11. You could name his starting 11 at Chelsea every week.

Since he’s joined us we have had constant changes to our starting 11 and formation. At pre-season we were playing 3-5-2, this has now changed to 4-3-3. Why has he changed his formation? Last season we reverted to 4-2-3-1 at some points as well.

In terms of the squad selection it’s just constant changes. Even today, Darmian was ok last week. Dropped for Young who hasn’t played RB for a long time. Martial comes in for Sanchez. I suspect Pereira and Mata will be dropped next week as well now.

On the right he tries Mata. It works for one game, he then plays badly. Dropped for Rashford. That doesn’t work, he plays Lingard. That doesn’t work go back to Mata again.

With his transfer activity he has bought just 2 defenders. Both of which are CBs. Both don’t look like Mourinho type CBs. If defensive solidity is so important why has not been more of a priority? I know we have needed to strengthen all over the pitch but for me CM was the least of our problems in the summer.

Why has he not stuck to his tried and tested formula?

He opened up at Real. They werent like his other teams and since then he hasnt looked quite right.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Probably cos he doesnt have the players, wasnt left with an abundance of talent and isnt being allowed to bring all the players that he wants to play that style fully. (hey, perisic probably wont sell shirts after all)

Oh shit I didn’t realise that Perisic and 300m was what was needed to beat Brighton.

 

[ash_86]

The club expectations and transfer policy is direct contrast to how Jose works. It's like opposite end of spectrum. But he has given us stability back and i think thats how far he could take us with the investments he's made.

 

[simplyared]

The fact Mata is starting games for us says everything. He wasn't good enough for Mourinho at Chelsea. He's nowhere near the player he was and yet he's considered good enough to play for us. Where's the logic in that?
I submitted my eleven players before the game and was nowhere near. Thought Darmian was a certainty at RB and Fellaini in MF. And where did Martial come from all of a sudden?
musical chairs!

 

[Renegade]

It’s strange, Herrera got POTY for us playing DM season before Matic arrived, so would it not make sense to use him in that role when Matic not available? Huge pressure on a young Andreas away from home who’s just learning how to be a DM after years of being a AM/Winger.

 

[Sylar]

Oh shit I didn’t realise that Perisic and 300m was what was needed to beat Brighton.

It isnt, but it would bring more balance to our team / squad
People on here were screwing their faces when we were linked with Matic, Perisic and Willian. They all would have defo made us a better team with more balance in terms of playing style.
Which is what this thread is about, why Jose isnt sticking to what hes been known for using
Cos he cant...

 

[Sky1981]

Looking at the trend I'm more worried that its us and not the manager.

Moyes lvg mourinho all failed to make us a ball playing team.

It's easy to blame the managers, but all other teams changes managers like diapers but none are having basic issues such as us.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Looking at the trend I'm more worried that its us and not the manager.

Moyes lvg mourinho all failed to make us a ball playing team.

It's easy to blame the managers, but all other teams changes managers like diapers but none are having basic issues such as us.

Maybe because they get better managers than we do.

 

[WR10]

The problem - or should I say the very welcomed problem - is that every time he sets up his United team to play the way he wants them to, old trafford groans and chants attack attack attack and what we get is this awkward disjointed non-existent identity of football that looks completely ineffective. This is why we are so absurdly reliant on individual moments of brilliance

He is so good at what he does - winning - but being at United it has been very clear that it is a lot more than that.

 

[blue blue]

His better results historically have come when wearing loose fitting sports/casual attire. His change to a more formal and smarter action slacks and evening jacket/suit jacket, has caused him untold trouble. This could be key and add a deeper reason for his loss of results.

Or you could analyse his tactics and player management, again.

Actually it was the haircut that made the difference. His best results almost entirely coincide with a new crew cut.

You can't analyse his tactics unless you are in the dressing room.

 

[#07]

If he's going to get fired he should go out on his own terms: Drop the players who aren't doing it for him. Play Matic and Herrera to protect our shaky as s-t back line and counter attack. Why not? Can it be any worse than what we saw today? It might be boring as anything but its obvious we cannot play a creative set of midfielders in front of such a leaky defence.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Looking at the trend I'm more worried that its us and not the manager.

Moyes lvg mourinho all failed to make us a ball playing team.

It's easy to blame the managers, but all other teams changes managers like diapers but none are having basic issues such as us.

None of those managers are known for playing good attacking football. We keep on hiring the wrong managers, if we had Klopp we would play the way you see Liverpool playing etc

 

[VP89]

If only we had a thread discussing Jose... Particularly his performance...

This is a very good thread for a standalone discussion on his tactics.

 

[Treble]

Football has changed a lot over the last decade, Jose not so much. Ronaldo bailed him out at Real by scoring 46 league goals 12/13 season. There is no such player at United now.

Yes, Jose won a title at Chelsea. But the competition that season was poor. That Chelsea team wasn't better than United 17/18.

In short, his principles might be a bit dated.

 

[VP89]

I think it's less an issue with formation and more an issue on training. When I watch is play I really do wonder how much ball training we actually do!

 

[VP89]

Football has changed a lot over the last decade, Jose not so much. Ronaldo bailed him out at Real by scoring 46 league goals 12/13 season. There is no such player at United now.

Yes, Jose won a title at Chelsea. But the competition that season was poor. That Chelsea team wasn't better than United 17/18.

In short, his principles might be a bit dated.

It does look this way. Although I'm still reserving any firm judgement until Xmas.

 

[Sky1981]

None of those managers are known for playing good attacking football. We keep on hiring the wrong managers, if we had Klopp we would play the way you see Liverpool playing etc

Attacking manager. Attacking manager.

I swear only united fans knows this words.

 

[settembrini]

People change.

When Mourinho first arrived in England he was charismatic, confident and had the press eating out of his hand. Now he's the exact opposite.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

If he's going to get fired he should go out on his own terms: Drop the players who aren't doing it for him. Play Matic and Herrera to protect our shaky as s-t back line and counter attack. Why not? Can it be any worse than what we saw today? It might be boring as anything but its obvious we cannot play a creative set of midfielders in front of such a leaky defence.

Herrera is another that isn't good enough. That's why we signed Fred, because Herrera just doesn't do it on a consistent basis.

 

[Sky1981]

Maybe because they get better managers than we do.

Our managers arent the best available. But i refuse to believe a manager of moyes and lvg calibre would fail to make our team pass more than thrice before losing the ball.

 

[DRM]

Quite simply, the players aren't good enough.

 

[#07]

Herrera is another that isn't good enough. That's why we signed Fred, because Herrera just doesn't do it on a consistent basis.

We signed Fred, as Jose explained, for his forward passing and ability to link defence and attack. However, despite the desire to play more expansively, we ain't good enough to think about attack first. The defence needs protecting. So we need two holding players that are more energy and endevour than creative passing. Herrera will do that better than anyone besides Matic.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Our managers arent the best available. But i refuse to believe a manager of moyes and lvg calibre would fail to make our team pass more than thrice before losing the ball.

What caliber is Moyes?

What caliber is Van Gaal?

Are we now implying that both are terrific managers? Seriously?

 

[11101]

If he's going to get fired he should go out on his own terms: Drop the players who aren't doing it for him. Play Matic and Herrera to protect our shaky as s-t back line and counter attack. Why not? Can it be any worse than what we saw today? It might be boring as anything but its obvious we cannot play a creative set of midfielders in front of such a leaky defence.

Thats exactly what we tried to do yesterday, and most games. Pogba and Fred were sat in front of our defence trying to play through to a fast attack when we get the ball back. Problem is we don't have the players to play that style of football. Pogba and Fred are wasted there, Young was leaving the defence horribly exposed and our forwards have strengths but hold up play and off the ball movement are not amongst them. As manager Jose needs to adapt a different style and stop complaining that we won't buy a whole new set of players to fit his preferred tactics.

What i think we now need is a fresh young face with less fear of taking a risk and who can relate to the players a bit more. Moyes collapsed the club but LVG and Mourinho both have impressive CVs but neither could get the players to consistently play with confidence.

 

[el3mel]

Football has changed a lot over the last decade, Jose not so much. Ronaldo bailed him out at Real by scoring 46 league goals 12/13 season. There is no such player at United now.

Yes, Jose won a title at Chelsea. But the competition that season was poor. That Chelsea team wasn't better than United 17/18.

In short, his principles might be a bit dated.

Disagree. His last title winning side at Chelsea was drilled machine that kept grinding wins. They were balanced all pver the pitch and you couldn't grap a point of weakness. We weren't all world class, but neither are Fergie's last few teams as well. It's not about how many world class players are, it's about how balanced the team. They weren't pretty, but a machine, something we can't dream of at the moment.

If he had built such a balanced and oil drilled machine that win at all costs here I would have been very happy. Problem is 3rd year and he's struggling to make the team plays his own way. We lack balance all over the pitch. We play formations that suit no one. How he has failed to address this in 3 years is beyond me. If it doesn't work this season, no need for a 4th season.

 

[Ace of Spades]

We have struggled no matter the personnel that has been picked, we manage to grind out results but overall the only difference between the previous games and this one is that our CBs made a lot less stupid errors. We still looked equally clueless in possession and hopeless in attack.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Attacking manager. Attacking manager.

I swear only united fans knows this words.

Because it's what we have FAILED to do since Fergie left. So yes bringing in a manager with an "attacking" philosophy is what we need.

 

[Treble]

Disagree. His last title winning side at Chelsea was drilled machine that kept grinding wins. They were balanced all pver the pitch and you couldn't grap a point of weakness. We weren't all world class, but neither are Fergie's last few teams as well. It's not about how many world class players are, it's about how balanced the team. They weren't pretty, but a machine, something we can't dream of at the moment.

If he had built such a balanced and oil drilled machine that win at all costs here I would have been very happy. Problem is 3rd year and he's struggling to make the team plays his own way. We lack balance all over the pitch. We play formations that suit no one. How he has failed to address this in 3 years is beyond me. If it doesn't work this season, no need for a 4th season.

You don't take into account the context of that league campaign (14/15). The competition was poor. It's easy to look like a drilled machine against weaker teams. Leicester won it next season. That crap was the competition.