It's typical, when people thought Mourinho had forced him out he got absolutely battered on here, now that he's made it clear he wanted him to stay and fight for a place here he's getting peltered for that as well
Mourinho's Pereira press conference | 1:30pm BST
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Rashford is over a year younger than this Pereira, Martial only a month older. Neither are guaranteed a starting place and they are competing with the likes of Lukaku, Mkhitaryan, Mata and soon to be Zlatan. Having to fight for their place will make them better players and stronger mentally.So a kid wanting to play competitive games having earlier said that he wants to play games is chickening out? If he stays on the bench, he's just there for the paycheck, if he goes on loan, he's ducking out of a fight.
When Martial and Rashford are not starting they are first options of the bench. AP is 3rd option. He doesn't even make the bench! Comparing those 2 situations is apples and oranges.
The other great contradiction amongst Mourinho critics is the way two main themes of last season have been "Mourinho's such a cnut, he never gives young players a chance" and "WTF! How come he picks Lingard and Martial for every game?!?"
Something doesn't add up...
Barring injuries, he wasn't going to get much opportunities here. Chickened out or not, he was being realistic about his chances. Much more than what some of the Caf seems to think.
Mourinho obviously wanted him to stay as an option regardless but I don't see much wrong in Pereira making the choice that he made. He'd rather play regular football within his capabilities. Who knows, he might improve and come back or continue towards a decent but far from extravagant career in Sunny Spain.
Mourinho obviously wanted him to stay as an option regardless but I don't see much wrong in Pereira making the choice that he made. He'd rather play regular football within his capabilities. Who knows, he might improve and come back or continue towards a decent but far from extravagant career in Sunny Spain.
Pereira is actually 21 months older, he is 22 in January. So it is understandable that he wants to have game time. Sitting on the bench isn't enough for him. He needs games to fully develop.
Regarding Pereira, I think Mourinho is either upset that his reputation proceeds him or he's protecting his reputation. Another young player leaves because they feel they won't get the minutes under him.
I'm a big Mourinho fan but I don't blame Periera, many players have done the same under Mourinho and proved it wasn't a mistake to move away and get the game time elsewhere.
Perhaps Mourinho is genuinely disappointed he has lost a player that he thought he would be able to point to in a couple of years time as proof he can develop a player.
I'm a big Mourinho fan but I don't blame Periera, many players have done the same under Mourinho and proved it wasn't a mistake to move away and get the game time elsewhere.
Perhaps Mourinho is genuinely disappointed he has lost a player that he thought he would be able to point to in a couple of years time as proof he can develop a player.
I can understand that point of view, even though I prefer to see players follow the manager's guidance. What confuses me is the destination for his loan. It's not as though he's guaranteed a tonne of games at Valencia, nor is it ideal preparation for a PL career.
What I'd really like to know about all of this is whether a loan to another English club was considered and if not, why not? Because it's difficult to see this decision as one that's made with his career at Manchester United in mind.
I also feel he prefers a move to Spain. La Liga suits his style of play and maybe culturally.
I'd have been more hopeful even if he'd gone to a PL club. As of now, I think his United career is over.
I can't see him playing them every game, at times 3 times in the space of 8 days. That would just run them into the ground.
Yeah, but Pereira would surely have been ahead of him and he certainly offers different qualities to Carrick and Fellaini.
He might have done himself a favour, but he'll really have to break into the first 11 at Valencia and perform. Anything less would mean an unsuccessful spell that will not help him get in our team going forward. If the manager was pressing him to stay and encouraging him to fight for a place, I think he should at least have given it until the new year and if by then it hadn't gone well for him, he could have gone out on loan.
True Tim, but this lads not learning this is he?
Jose seems to think he had a good outing in Granada last season, so brings him back expecting him to show some focus and a mentality to fight for a place, at least to train with the big boys and soak up the atmosphere of squad routines. Sadly however the lad either doesn't recognise the chance he's been given, or says he would rather be certain of a game, so he goes to Valencia on loan, what's the betting someone else at OT may will leapfrog over him whilst he's away.
"You can lead a horse to water etc..."
The amount of attempts to spin this whole thing is great. 
Guess you didnt follow Chelsea much under his 2nd stint.
Since the night I saw him tweak the ear of that Barcelona official and run away, I've always thought of Jose as somewhat villainous. I admit it.
feck all this crap about someone who is too good to let go but not good enough to play yet!
What did Jose say in the presser?
What did Jose say in the presser?
Wouldn't be surprised if AP's decision was swayed by it being a WC year. There's a far higher chance of him getting into the Brazil squad by performing consistently on loan than playing every three or four games for us against teams like MK Dons.
Personally I feel like Pereira made the right choice, though obviously time will tell. He's behind at least 4 if not 5 midfielders in the pecking order and unlikely to get a look-in this season. Same situation if not worse at AM positions.
Mourinho probably wanted to keep him in order for Andreas to start feeling part of the squad and training with the rest of the lads. Also so that he could better assess him through the year. And that'd be a solid argument too. But it's hard to argue against Pereira's decision to go elsewhere for more football. Carrick retiring at the end of the year and Fellaini potentially leaving if he's not offered a new contract would open the door for him next year, but now it's too soon.
Also there's another thing to consider. With the Pogba and Matic acquisitions of the last two years it's entirely reasonable for Pereira to think that he'd be nothing more than a squad player even after Carrick/Fellaini go and he'd be right. He also might not be cool with that. Being starting XI player at Valencia can feel more rewarding than being a 4th-5th midfielder at United, depending on what you want to get out of football.
Mourinho probably wanted to keep him in order for Andreas to start feeling part of the squad and training with the rest of the lads. Also so that he could better assess him through the year. And that'd be a solid argument too. But it's hard to argue against Pereira's decision to go elsewhere for more football. Carrick retiring at the end of the year and Fellaini potentially leaving if he's not offered a new contract would open the door for him next year, but now it's too soon.
Also there's another thing to consider. With the Pogba and Matic acquisitions of the last two years it's entirely reasonable for Pereira to think that he'd be nothing more than a squad player even after Carrick/Fellaini go and he'd be right. He also might not be cool with that. Being starting XI player at Valencia can feel more rewarding than being a 4th-5th midfielder at United, depending on what you want to get out of football.
Precisely. How can we or the manager be upset about an in-demand young player going on loan when he can't even make the squad? If he's good enough then he'd make the squad. If not then surely it's not a problem that he's going elsewhere.
I cant get my head around Jose's comments on the matter... He's brought the lads intelligence, understanding, ambition and character, into an issue he could simply have prevented, if he wanted the lad to stay. It doesn't make sense to me.
I understand why the lad wants to go... he wants regular football; but it's not about what he wants, it's about what Jose feels is best for him and the club.
You did hear him say that most players would get starts now that our calendar is rather busy, no?
But it's more than not liking it... he's challenged the lads intelligence, ambition, understanding and character; it just doesn't add up.
It seems to mean a lot to Jose and as for what Pereira thinks is best for his development... to a degree, it's irrelevant if it doesn't match up with what the manager feels and on this they seem poles apart. We saw what happens when players don't match the mangers demands last season, so whats changed? Are we to believe that players now decide whats best for them, regardless of the managers wishes?
Then sell the lad, not question his character
Jose in taking a swipe at young player shocker
Was the press conference about Pereira or the Stoke game?
To me it makes perfect sense.
Yes, of course Jose could have said 'No you are not going I want you here', but I think its a case of Jose wanting the lad to show him that he is serious about staying, not just saying he does! There comes a time in everyone's life when you have to make your own crucial decisions, no one can make them for you, its make or break etc.
Yes of course, we can all understand why the lad wants to go, so he can get a game each week, so if that's what he wants Jose is saying OK kid go for it, but don't expect me to take your ambitions at this club seriously. If you feel going on loan will develop your game, then go for it!
How the lad plays out this situation could well determine his future at OT, repeatedly in his presser today Jose refers to 'his, its the lads decision'.
I'm sure Jose thinks the lad can make it, that's why he brought him back after a year on loan, but does the kid really think Jose is going down on his knees and saying "Oh please, please don't go..." for me this is Jose giving the lad a chance to show he is maturing in his attitude, which has been the big draw back, in the past, his skill is not I feel in question.
He said same bullshit last season and there was feck all of rotation.
On the one hand he say "we have no clue" and then on the other hand you say "if anything he wasn't going to get a chance"
Classic bias
There are players ahead of him who are better right now do he has to work for it. Jose has given chances to plenty of our youngsters who are in the first team. One of them most people rage about for being in it (JL).
Good thing the Managers job is not please everyone and play a player just because some people think he has a right to walk into the first team without coming up to the standard by fighting for his place.
When players like kovacic ceballos Vasquez asensio and many others can fight for their places with Madrid , what was the problem for peierea except for lure of living in Spain for another year with more game time while chickening out o the competition for places.
If he has to get into United team some or other time he should have fought like lingard and rashford.
Herrera matic Carrick an fellani are not attacking midfeilders they are all defensive ones , so his direct competion would have been with pogba in his position and pogba will need rest some or other time.
Pierera took a typical selfish desicion as he still would have to fight next year for his position in the same midfeild.
If he has to get into United team some or other time he should have fought like lingard and rashford.
Herrera matic Carrick an fellani are not attacking midfeilders they are all defensive ones , so his direct competion would have been with pogba in his position and pogba will need rest some or other time.
Pierera took a typical selfish desicion as he still would have to fight next year for his position in the same midfeild.
There will be rotation in the domestic cups and to some extent in the CL. Obviously even Ashley Young is in contention to start against Burton Albion.
And there will still certainly be feck all rotation in the league unless someone gets injured. Why rotate when players are on form? The whole issue of tiredness is being stretched a bit too far, Jose won the league with Chelsea by having a set starting XI.
'Jose is saying OK kid go for it,' but he is saying the complete opposite. There was no encouragement, or enthusiasm as to what it could do to the lads development. It was a cutting assessment, full of disappointment and insinuations. He all but said the lad hasn't got the mentality to play for us and I don't see that changing after more time in Spain. I'll be very surprised if he's with us this time next season
That's not exactly what I meant but the sentiment is there. I'm a really big fan of AP and was really impressed with his pre-season performances but would rather see him getting game time out on loan than lose him. I'm sure if he stayed he'd have got some cup games and some time against some of the lesser teams after a Europe game but would that have been enough for him?
My main point was that I want to know what else Jose said in the presser.
Having said all that I reckon if the loan could have been domestic it might have been more beneficial to all parties.
Yep. Pogba was advised by SAF and others to stay with United, but he took a decision that suited him (and his agent), and he developed into the player we wanted.
Unlike Pogba, we can get him back cheaply if he does do well.
I kind of agree with this. I'm getting real sceptical about him being a player for us in the long term.
And look at him now....
It's not just the playing it's the embracing of the team culture and 'philosophy' but yet another season away from the squad. He should have gave it until January as even with this loan he will still need to adapt to the EPL if he wants to make it here.
He wasn't even making the bench so the comparison with the players you mentioned is not right.
Andnot sure that he has only Pogba ahead is accurate assumption either considering that Carrick, Herrera and Fellaini have all been in the squad ahead of him and no not all of them are defensive midfielders. Only Carrick is.
Pereira is 21 not really 19, so now needs to be playing regularly and he got a taste of it last season.
Ah come on, you don't believe that do you? Really? He is 6th choice, that is the reality. I applaud him for wanting the chance to play regular first team football. We are repeatadly told young players take the money to sit on the bench instead of improving themselves by playing elsewhere. He wants to play, irrespective of the Manager, and I say well done him.
I'm guessing He took not even making the bench as a sign. If anything he is Herreras back up and right now our best player last season can't get on the pitch. He is about 6th choice in a team that looks like it'll be a 4231. Two positions for the kid. I think he made the right decision on going out on loan to a place where he has more of a chance of getting a start. He'll still need to fight for it but his chances look far greater.
He's got same competition next year and for few years in United squad. He will have to face it some or other time to be a United player if he is serious about it.
I don't think it is purely about competition, but the fact that Jose prefers his favorite son Marouane above everyone else, so unless there are massive injuries, even if he forces his way into the squad he probably still won't get as much game time as he would at Valencia. At the end of the day, he just wants to continue his development and momentum after a good loan spell. After all he did say that he wanted to stay earlier in the preseason.
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