Moussa Dembele (Lyon) - Take Him?

UNITED ACADEMY

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The reason why we wanted Haland is because Ole wants Martial to have a competition.

Shanghai decided to place £20m on Ighalo according to lot of sources. Ighalo is going to turn 31 years old next season and his contract is going to be expired next year 2021. It doesn't make sense for United to pay such a money on him. If they are going to play hard then we should fall to their hand and change to a new target.

This might be unpopular opinion, making sure that we have another striker to push Martial or compete with Martial (let's say we fail to sign Ighalo) is more important than signing right winger this summer. Striker score goals, if we struggle to score in a match, we need an alternative from the bench. People will talk about Greenwood, but his current level wasn't good enough to challenge Martial this season and I like his chance to get more games time on the right rather than as a lone striker in his current age.

Recently we are linked with Moussa Dembele for £60m and United is looking for to sign him cheaper than £60m.

Man Utd confident of completing £60m transfer for Lyon striker Moussa Dembele

Dembele is only 1 year younger than Martial.
19 years old at Fulham (Championship) 37 apps (6 subs) - 15 Goals
20 years old at Celtic (All Comp) 49 apps - 32 Goals
21 years old at Celtic (All Comp) 39 apps - 16 Goals
22 years old at Lyon (Ligue 1) 21 apps (12 subs) - 15 Goals
23 years old at Lyon (Ligue 1) 24 apps (3 subs) - 16 Goals

The stats is pretty good and I'll pay the money on him if we can't get Ighalo.
 

Hawks2008

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Doesn't improve the starting 11 and for that price he really should be a guaranteed starter. I'd stay away.
 

Trex

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I don't rate him he lacks finesse as a footballer,35m max
 

TheReligion

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The reason why we wanted Haland is because Ole wants Martial to have a competition.

Shanghai decided to place £20m on Ighalo according to lot of sources. Ighalo is going to turn 31 years old next season and his contract is going to be expired next year 2021. It doesn't make sense for United to pay such a money on him. If they are going to play hard then we should fall to their hand and change to a new target.

This might be unpopular opinion, making sure that we have another striker to push Martial or compete with Martial (let's say we fail to sign Ighalo) is more important than signing right winger this summer. Striker score goals, if we struggle to score in a match, we need an alternative from the bench. People will talk about Greenwood, but his current level wasn't good enough to challenge Martial this season and I like his chance to get more games time on the right rather than as a lone striker in his current age.

Recently we are linked with Moussa Dembele for £60m and United is looking for to sign him cheaper than £60m.

Man Utd confident of completing £60m transfer for Lyon striker Moussa Dembele

Dembele is only 1 year younger than Martial.
19 years old at Fulham (Championship) 37 apps (6 subs) - 15 Goals
20 years old at Celtic (All Comp) 49 apps - 32 Goals
21 years old at Celtic (All Comp) 39 apps - 16 Goals
22 years old at Lyon (Ligue 1) 21 apps (12 subs) - 15 Goals
23 years old at Lyon (Ligue 1) 24 apps (3 subs) - 16 Goals

The stats is pretty good and I'll pay the money on him if we can't get Ighalo.
That's very good of you. Nice little treat for the club.
 

BenitoSTARR

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He has a decent record and Lyon will likely look to sell him this summer along with Aouar having missed out on CL. I don’t however think he’s needed as much as other positions and so can’t realistically see the club going for him for anything approaching £60m. If you’re paying that money he’s got to be a guaranteed starter like Bruno, Maguire, Wan Bissaka etc. You don’t blow north of £50m in depth.
 

Rozay

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No, not for me. If not Ighalo, a striker of similar profile like Rondon, Diego Costa etc for me. I also wouldn’t be against another move for Joshua King, I’ve always liked him, and he has a year left. Can play left, right and centre. Bring him home.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Doesn't improve the starting 11 and for that price he really should be a guaranteed starter. I'd stay away.
Let's put it this way. Signing him is also pushing Martial to keep performing which also means improving our starting 11.
 

Samid

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No, not for me. If not Ighalo, a striker of similar profile like Rondon, Diego Costa etc for me. I also wouldn’t be against another move for Joshua King, I’ve always liked him, and he has a year left. Can play left, right and centre. Bring him home.
Ship sailed for King in January. We should be going all in on his compatriot in 2021 instead while trying to negotiate a year long loan for Ighalo in the short term.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Let's put it this way. Signing him is also pushing Martial to keep performing which also means improving our starting 11.
I don’t think Martial needs pushing he’s a very good player and when the first XI is fit he’ll come good massively IMO
 

andersj

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No, not for me. If not Ighalo, a striker of similar profile like Rondon, Diego Costa etc for me. I also wouldn’t be against another move for Joshua King, I’ve always liked him, and he has a year left. Can play left, right and centre. Bring him home.
I agree and I think we will. Would be a good squad option, adding something different.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I don’t think Martial needs pushing he’s a very good player and when the first XI is fit he’ll come good massively IMO
Being very good player doesn't mean he will show consistent performance week in week out without a competition behind him.
 

Rozay

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Ship sailed for King in January. We should be going all in on his compatriot in 2021 instead while trying to negotiate a year long loan for Ighalo in the short term.
We don’t need Haaland and Greenwood. Especially if Ma$e has another impressive season next term, what would the point be in bringing in another striker the same age?

I think an Ighalo type is ideal to bridge the gap between Martial and Greenwood.
 

Nick7

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We don’t need Haaland and Greenwood. Especially if Ma$e has another impressive season next term, what would the point be in bringing in another striker the same age?

I think an Ighalo type is ideal to bridge the gap between Martial and Greenwood.
To have two top quality young strikers? Don’t see the problem with that.
 

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I’d pay £15m for Ighalo as long as his wages weren’t crazy. No point spunking €60m on Dembele when I don’t think he will be any better than Rashford, martial or greenwood. Doesn’t make sense in the current climate. For that price he needs to be a starter
 

Rozay

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To have two top quality young strikers? Don’t see the problem with that.
Both strikers should be playing every game in order to become the players they should be. Not have their development time shared with another young striker.

Also, you may see no problem, from a United perspective, but from the player’s perspective - why would the two best young strikers in the game want to spend their careers at the same club competing for one role? Any club would want to have them, they don’t need to share a role.

A 30 year old back up like Ighalo, or a player who knows he is back up level, like King, is ideal. An Ighalo or Cavani can provide in the here and now and push Martial, and then in a couple of years, their short deal will be nearing an end just about the time Greenwood is ready to give Martial a proper fight. Ighalo, even if still here, will just remain cover, he knows that.

Buying Haaland as a 20 year old back up/competition to Martial - and then having Greenwood as some sort of 20 year old back up/competition to Haaland makes no sense. Ao long as we want to play a one striker system, Haaland and Greenwood should not both be here. Similarly to how Kane and Aguero should not be at the same club.
 

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60m for this guy would be a total feck up and back to square one regarding how we deal on the market. I'd rather we buy Ighalo for 20m than spank that ammount on Dembele who is a downgrade from Lukaku. Even getting back Depay might be a better option imo.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Both strikers should be playing every game in order to become the players they should be. Not have their development time shared with another young striker.

Also, you may see no problem, from a United perspective, but from the player’s perspective - why would the two best young strikers in the game want to spend their careers at the same club competing for one role? Any club would want to have them, they don’t need to share a role.

A 30 year old back up like Ighalo, or a player who knows he is back up level, like King, is ideal. An Ighalo or Cavani can provide in the here and now and push Martial, and then in a couple of years, their short deal will be nearing an end just about the time Greenwood is ready to give Martial a proper fight. Ighalo, even if still here, will just remain cover, he knows that.

Buying Haaland as a 20 year old back up/competition to Martial - and then having Greenwood as some sort of 20 year old back up/competition to Haaland makes no sense. Ao long as we want to play a one striker system, Haaland and Greenwood should not both be here. Similarly to how Kane and Aguero should not be at the same club.
Greenwood can play on the right and get his playing time on the right.
 

Nick7

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Both strikers should be playing every game in order to become the players they should be. Not have their development time shared with another young striker.

Also, you may see no problem, from a United perspective, but from the player’s perspective - why would the two best young strikers in the game want to spend their careers at the same club competing for one role? Any club would want to have them, they don’t need to share a role.

A 30 year old back up like Ighalo, or a player who knows he is back up level, like King, is ideal. An Ighalo or Cavani can provide in the here and now and push Martial, and then in a couple of years, their short deal will be nearing an end just about the time Greenwood is ready to give Martial a proper fight. Ighalo, even if still here, will just remain cover, he knows that.

Buying Haaland as a 20 year old back up/competition to Martial - and then having Greenwood as some sort of 20 year old back up/competition to Haaland makes no sense. Ao long as we want to play a one striker system, Haaland and Greenwood should not both be here. Similarly to how Kane and Aguero should not be at the same club.
Haaland would start over Martial 9 times out of 10. He’d be a replacement, not back up or competition.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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60m for this guy would be a total feck up and back to square one regarding how we deal on the market. I'd rather we buy Ighalo for 20m than spank that ammount on Dembele who is a downgrade from Lukaku. Even getting back Depay might be a better option imo.
You can get a similar amount back from that 60m by selling him like how we did on Lukaku, this is the benefit of signing 22-24 years old. Paying 20m on 31 years old player with only 1 year left in his contract is way too much. China also already made statement last year that they will make restriction of the footballer's wages which force their players to leave now, paying 20m now just doesn't make any sense.

We are not in a situation that we must pay that 20m for 31 years old, while Shanghai is in the situation that they will either sell for cheaper price or lose him for free. If they play hard then we shouldn't give away the 20m.
 

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You can get a similar amount back from that 60m by selling him like how we did on Lukaku, this is the benefit of signing 22-24 years old. Paying 20m on 31 years old player with only 1 year left in his contract is way too much. China also already made statement last year that they will make restriction of the footballer's wages which force their players to leave now, paying 20m now just doesn't make any sense.

We are not in a situation that we must pay that 20m for 31 years old, while Shanghai is in the situation that they will either sell for cheaper price or lose him for free. If they play hard then we shouldn't give away the 20m.
You are right, somehow I though Ighalo was 28-29. But paying 60m for someone as average as Dembele is pure lunacy, and compared to Lukaku I don't see a club willing to pay 60m when we eventually recognise our mistake. In comparison Lukaku is a better striker with bigger reputation therefor Inter willing to splash that ammount of money for him. We spend that much of money on Dembele and we are stuck with him. I am sure we can find a better striker for that ammount of money, even for less.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You are right, somehow I though Ighalo was 28-29. But paying 60m for someone as average as Dembele is pure lunacy, and compared to Lukaku I don't see a club willing to pay 60m when we eventually recognise our mistake. In comparison Lukaku is a better striker with bigger reputation therefor Inter willing to splash that ammount of money for him. We spend that much of money on Dembele and we are stuck with him. I am sure we can find a better striker for that ammount of money, even for less.
That's where the difference in both our opinion. I don't think he's as average as what you think. However, regardless which striker we should sign, we have to sign one for replacement if Ighalo leaves. Whether we need to spend 50m or plus on the likes of Dembele & Werner or less fees on someone else, to me adding this position to our squad is the no 1 priority.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Ahead of this new right winger you are all demanding we sign too?
Yes. I already made it clear in the thread.

It was always No 10 and then a striker before a RW. We signed Bruno so the no 10 business was done. Ighalo also means we done with striker business but now we might not be able to secure Ighalo permanent means we are back in hunting for it again.
 

RkkMan

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Greenwood can play on the right and get his playing time on the right.
Square peg in a round hole. He lacks the natural pace inside forwards like Salah/Mane/Rashford have and his finishing is too good to use anywhere not in the middle of the opposition box in the long term.
Plus Sancho is who we need for the RW role a natural RW not a No10 playing as a RW or a striker playing as a RW
 

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That's where the difference in both our opinion. I don't think he's as average as what you think. However, regardless which striker we should sign, we have to sign one for replacement if Ighalo leaves. Whether we need to spend 50m or plus on the likes of Dembele & Werner or less fees on someone else, to me adding this position to our squad is the no 1 priority.
We might need another striker or we might invest game time in Greenwood. Since you mention Werner, he is in another class compared to Dembele, and if we can convince him to join it's completely another thing. If we can't find that kind of talent i think it's amaterish spending 60m on Dembele when we have Greenwood. Give it another season and Greenwood will be comfortably better than Dembele.
 

Rozay

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Haaland would start over Martial 9 times out of 10. He’d be a replacement, not back up or competition.
Not necessarily. And even if he did, when does Martial get to play then? In Cup games? If so, when does Greenwood get to play?

And if we bought Haaland and sold Martial - what is the plan for the striker role long term? Have the two of them spending their career ‘competing’ for the role?

To me it’s simple, Martial can do the job currently, on course for about 20 this season at least, while Ighalo and Greenwood covering two roles behind him. In a couple of years, Ighalo will be 32 or so. Mason 20. He should get the first chance to challenge Martial for the role, and if he does the job, then we can sell Martial as I imagine he’ll want to leave. If he isn’t that good, we can get Haaland and let him try it.

I’m not sure where people see Greenwood’s medium to long term future in the XI if we sign Haaland? They are practically the same age and developing still.

I’m not a blind youth loyalist by any stretch, and if Greenwood wasn’t actually looking THAT good, I’d sing a different tune. But he is. Our Martial succession plan is already in place, and we play only one striker. As it is, Mason has a battle on to usurp Martial, who is not as useless as this forum likes to imply. We don’t need two 19 year olds both trying to take Martial’s spot.
 

Rozay

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Yes. I already made it clear in the thread.

It was always No 10 and then a striker before a RW. We signed Bruno so the no 10 business was done. Ighalo also means we done with striker business but now we might not be able to secure Ighalo permanent means we are back in hunting for it again.
Ighalo isn’t ‘done with the striker’ business if your alternative is Haaland or Dembele. They are two very different job specs. If you were satisfied with Ighalo, then that shows the role you have in mind. His role isn’t the role you bring Haaland or Dembele to cover.

If you said ‘if not Ighalo then Rondon’ then fair enough. Otherwise you may as well say if not Ighalo then Messi. Ighalo is cover, if not him, then get someone else to cover.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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We might need another striker or we might invest game time in Greenwood. Since you mention Werner, he is in another class compared to Dembele, and if we can convince him to join it's completely another thing. If we can't find that kind of talent i think it's amaterish spending 60m on Dembele when we have Greenwood. Give it another season and Greenwood will be comfortably better than Dembele.
I mentioned Werner because he's available. But Dembele is the one we are strongly linked with at this point and he's at a good age. Compared to someone like Aubameyang & Jimenez with same price, they are ageing and we ain't gonna get enough from them if we plan to sell them.

Getting Dembele doesn't mean Greenwood cannot get game time, in fact he'll likely to get more game time on the right in next season or two seasons. If we don't have another striker, we will be forced only have Greenwood on the bench to relied on to change the game.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Ighalo isn’t ‘done with the striker’ business if your alternative is Haaland or Dembele. They are two very different job specs. If you were satisfied with Ighalo, then that shows the role you have in mind. His role isn’t the role you bring Haaland or Dembele to cover.

If you said ‘if not Ighalo then Rondon’ then fair enough. Otherwise you may as well say if not Ighalo then Messi. Ighalo is cover, if not him, then get someone else to cover.
The point is to have striker to compete with Martial and also option to have on the bench to bring in to change the game. Ighalo was never the original option anyway. Dembele was actually our target before December, while Haland was also our target.

Ighalo was just a punt for cheaper and short option at that time since the window was very closed, now that he did well, it becomes different story.
 

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I agree that we shouldn't be held to ransom for Ighalo. I like what he's shown for us so far so if we can get him cheaply - say £15m, which wouldn't be unreasonable since Shanghai originally paid £20m for him - then he's my favourite option, nicely complimenting Martial and Greenwood. If they ask too much for him, we should look for a similar option elsewhere. Potentially someone closer to 28: already experienced and reliable but young enough to give us three or four years as a squad player.

I wouldn't want to pay more than £30m for such a player. £60m for Dembele is not good value and he's not the right profile of striker anyway - in that unhelpful middle ground where he'll want to be a starter for a big club but isn't actually good enough to start for us.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Square peg in a round hole. He lacks the natural pace inside forwards like Salah/Mane/Rashford have and his finishing is too good to use anywhere not in the middle of the opposition box in the long term.
Plus Sancho is who we need for the RW role a natural RW not a No10 playing as a RW or a striker playing as a RW
And Greenwood lacks the ability to hold the ball at this moment. He scored more goals this season from the right side because he's getting more space in that position.

You might want to check the reality that we might not be able to afford Sancho this summer. This is not going to be a long term position, the right side at this moment is perfect for Greenwood to build more experience and confidence by playing more games time.
 

Rozay

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The point is to have striker to compete with Martial and also option to have on the bench to bring in to change the game. Ighalo was never the original option anyway. Dembele was actually our target before December, while Haland was also our target.

Ighalo was just a punt for cheaper and short option at that time since the window was very closed, now that he did well, it becomes different story.
So which of these roles apply to Greenwood?
 

Paul_Scholes18

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I would take Dembele. Quality striker and we will probably just waste the money otherwise anyway. We need a striker for sure.
 

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As an out and out centre forward Dembele is arguably better than Martial, although Martial is the better footballer overall. Dembele is very quick, strong, good in the air, good movement in the box and scores goals. Technically he's a little lacking but he's probably not any worse than Haaland on that front.

Ole has said that he wants a predatory striker that really wants to score goals and Dembele fits that bill similar to Haaland. However, if we're looking at top strikers available, Werner is the superior player, although he's probably Liverpool bound.