Moussa Dembele (Lyon) - Take Him?

BalanceUnAutreJoint

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Martial, age 24, scored 26 goals in 69 matches as a French youth national; Dembele, age 23, scored 23 goals in 59 such matches; Edouard, age 22, scored 25 goals in 40 such matches. Of the 3, Edouard has the best play maker numbers as a pro with 19 assists in 3660' this season. Martial's best were 11 assists in 4663' in 14/15, and Dembele's best were 9 assists in 2411' in 17/18. Edouard is 187cm tall, weighs 83kg, very strong, fast, and quick with good dribble and passing skills.

I'd pick Edouard to replace Benzema as CF for the French national team over Martial and Dembele. For 25m, he would be a bargain buy for Ole's attack, imo.
Odsonne Edouard plays in Scotland how is this comparison even fair?
There are tons of better striker options than Edouard for the French NT, he's not even in the picture right now.
Also Martial is very ahead of him in their of ceiling, Dembele is a lot more proven.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Paying €60m for any player now doesn’t make sense, especially one who’s clearly not a €60m player
€70m = £62m. Good news on this story is none of the "sources" are reputable. This bad news is probably fake news.

The Mirror: "according to reports ..."
Spanish site todofichajes "we have learned ..."
Daily Star is all hearsay and supposition.

None of "sources" can actually quote a real person who's prepared to say we've signed him.
 

RaddyRed

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Even Celtic and Rangers would probably struggle against the better Championship teams tbh. No need to be polite about it. SPL is a rubbish league. Top players have come from many rubbish leagues before, it is no proof of anything, all players have to start somewhere.
Is this the same Celtic that beat Lazio home and away on their way to topping their Europa League Group, or a different one?
 

BenitoSTARR

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Martial, age 24, scored 26 goals in 69 matches as a French youth national; Dembele, age 23, scored 23 goals in 59 such matches; Edouard, age 22, scored 25 goals in 40 such matches. Of the 3, Edouard has the best play maker numbers as a pro with 19 assists in 3660' this season. Martial's best were 11 assists in 4663' in 14/15, and Dembele's best were 9 assists in 2411' in 17/18. Edouard is 187cm tall, weighs 83kg, very strong, fast, and quick with good dribble and passing skills.

I'd pick Edouard to replace Benzema as CF for the French national team over Martial and Dembele. For 25m, he would be a bargain buy for Ole's attack, imo.
He would be a sensible squad option for that kind of price for sure!

You are specifically said "I don’t think anyone missed the point. We had 4 top strikers for 2 positions." Clearly you didn't get it, because the point is not about we had 4 for 2 position.

The point of having another good quality striker option is not so we can challenge the league, but it's to make sure we have option that we can bring on to change the game rather than relying on one teenager alone to change the game from the bench. It also provides competition & rotation for others.

I'm not going to mention about how Liverpool wanted to sign Werner despite of having Firmino, Mane, Salah. And I'm not going to repeat myself telling you that both Martial & Rashford are not at world class level like those names you mentioned that they don't need to be rotated. And instead, I'll tell you one thing very clear. Stop comparing us with others, we are Manchester United doesn't mean we need to be like others. The reality is Ole wanted Lukaku to stay, he wanted to replace Lukaku with Haland. I'm just making points what the manager wanted and I believe he was right.

I never said we'll fix everything in one window. What about you read my post & also my original post on this thread. This is the first post of this thread:



I read your same post many times. You clearly either don't read or just don't give a damn shit about different opinion.
I said that in reference to having the ability to rotate between a front 2 and back up 2 at the time we were consistently competing for the PL title and gunning for CL glory. Also at the time of having that squad we weren’t in the middle of an unprecedented virus.

I don’t know if you just don’t want to understand me or can’t?

I am not against having a top quality striker on the bench but what I am telling you is no top quality striker worth his salt in world football will be happy being a bench player at this current Manchester United side. I would love a world class striker to call on as back up but I recognise this isn’t FIFA 20 and players especially strikers don’t want to warm the bench. They are often the more selfish players who want to score and play.

I understand why you want an option but my only concern is the impact financially. I’ve said numerous times if you can pick up Dembele for £30-40m max it’s pushing it a bit but worth it. But I don’t want us splashing £50/60m on a squad player until RW is sorted out.

Liverpool have just wont the CL and are very likely to win the PL so of course better players are going to be more content playing there. I’m sorry but you can’t ignore your competitors and putting your fingers in your ears when you know I’ve made a very valid point about other teams current squads for example Liverpool having Origi on the bench and still able to walk the league I think vindicates my point that your first XI and keeping them fit is the most important thing (Werner hasn’t agreed anything so don’t float names as a given)

Martial and Rashford aren’t there yet but they are still young and in a developing team not a finished product like many of the other sides I mentioned but that is where we need to get to and Martial and Rashford will not be playing with better players if you bring in Dembele but will if you bring in Sancho.

Yes I agree he wanted Haaland (so would I he’s got a lot of potential!) and yes he wanted to keep Lukaku but guess what Lukaku DID NOT WANT TO BE ON THE BENCH BECAUSE HE’S A TOP PLAYER!

I do read all the posts before posting myself and you didn’t I respond to each of your points and you ignore the ones I make that you can’t counter (like the squads of top sides).

We agree on several points that we would both love a top quality striker option in the squad but a key difference here is I don’t think it’s happening this window because I think we have bigger targets and won’t be able to spend big on the kind of quality you want.

But to re iterate I would love a great world class option off the bench like Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov used to offer but I accept that we aren’t currently the best side in England and are far behind the best in Europe and I strongly believe the best way to get there is to improve the first team and starting XI as a priority before splashing cash on squad option which we eventually need to do.

I hope you can see where we have common ground and understand my reasons for disagreeing with your points.
 

Adam-Utd

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I'd rather take Memphis back for 30m.
Honestly, for the role we want our 9 to play he would be perfect in that sense.

He plays a very similar role for Holland/Lyon as a pressing striker that can hold the ball up/link play, and the wide men play the inside forward roles.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Honestly, for the role we want our 9 to play he would be perfect in that sense.

He plays a very similar role for Holland/Lyon as a pressing striker that can hold the ball up/link play, and the wide men play the inside forward roles.
Skill set wise he’s definitely the kind of mobile forward you want and he’s comfortable across the frontline so in terms of flexibility and skills he’s a very good option my only concern would be his mentality he by his own admission is a selfish player who wants to be flashy.
 

Adam-Utd

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Skill set wise he’s definitely the kind of mobile forward you want and he’s comfortable across the frontline so in terms of flexibility and skills he’s a very good option my only concern would be his mentality he by his own admission is a selfish player who wants to be flashy.
Whenever I've watched him for Lyon or Holland he doesn't come across as arrogant or flashy in his play. Yes his personality is a bit chalk/cheese and if people dislike Pogba they sure as hell won't accept Memphis, but he's a great player IMO. Very unlucky with his injury.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Whenever I've watched him for Lyon or Holland he doesn't come across as arrogant or flashy in his play. Yes his personality is a bit chalk/cheese and if people dislike Pogba they sure as hell won't accept Memphis, but he's a great player IMO. Very unlucky with his injury.
In interviews recently he said that’s how he thinks when on the pitch. I do think he’s a much better player than when we sold him and if he’d be happy with a bit part role then I’d be all for it but I’m not sure his mentality would allow him to come back as I get the impression he likes being the big man on the pitch which most strikers do and I don’t see him accepting a squad role where he rotated with the front 3.
 

Adam-Utd

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In interviews recently he said that’s how he thinks when on the pitch. I do think he’s a much better player than when we sold him and if he’d be happy with a bit part role then I’d be all for it but I’m not sure his mentality would allow him to come back as I get the impression he likes being the big man on the pitch which most strikers do and I don’t see him accepting a squad role where he rotated with the front 3.
I guess it depends on him, if he's happy being a big fish in a small pond he will stay at Lyon.

Most clubs along the next step have good forwards already so he's always going to have competition somewhere.
 

BenitoSTARR

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I guess it depends on him, if he's happy being a big fish in a small pond he will stay at Lyon.

Most clubs along the next step have good forwards already so he's always going to have competition somewhere.
I agree with you on this wherever he goes for a bigger club they’ll be competition and I can think of any glaring vacancies at the top clubs. Perhaps he’s found his level at Lyon.

Maybe AC Milan, Chelsea or Juventus as Higuain is getting on? But everywhere else seems ok for first choice strikers.
 

swred

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Is this the same Celtic that beat Lazio home and away on their way to topping their Europa League Group, or a different one?

I know a player that was playing in the Scottish Prem, as a pro, even he said that the Scottish Premiership isn't that special.
He said Celtic are miles better than any of the other Scottish teams, but that's due to their budget in comparisons, but would of said they were more higher parts of the Championship level.

The rest of the teams are comparable to the English League 2 level.

This was before Slippy took over at Rangers.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I said that in reference to having the ability to rotate between a front 2 and back up 2 at the time we were consistently competing for the PL title and gunning for CL glory. Also at the time of having that squad we weren’t in the middle of an unprecedented virus.
The point of having it now is not so we can win the league. I think I said this like 10x already.

I don’t know if you just don’t want to understand me or can’t?

I am not against having a top quality striker on the bench but what I am telling you is no top quality striker worth his salt in world football will be happy being a bench player at this current Manchester United side. I would love a world class striker to call on as back up but I recognise this isn’t FIFA 20 and players especially strikers don’t want to warm the bench. They are often the more selfish players who want to score and play.
I understand you have different opinion but doesn't mean my opinion doesn't make any sense just because you can't accept the disagreement/different thing. We are are not signing world class here, we are signing players who still have plenty of time to develop & learn which is why we are linked with Dembele & Haland who are more suitable for the role, and I've said this like 10x already, the idea of signing young player is not just based on long term playing for United but also investment if player isn't happy and wants to leave, we can get something from them. I'll highlight it just for you.

WTF are you talking about?

The poster point was that we shouldn't have Haland & Greenwood, he doesn't think we should bring in another striker the same age since it won't benefit Greenwood's development. I replied his post about we need to have a striker to challenge & push Martial if Ighalo leaves, and Greenwood can still get his game time on the right.

And he started talking about me not thinking about beyond 18 months. And I countered the argument by saying that we don't know what will happen in 18 months, players can still leave. The idea of signing young players are not just based on long term as regular player but also investment if player wants to leave in the future. If the deal & the contract don't match both of the condition, we will refuse like what we did on Haland. How can you call a reality that happened as non-sense?
I understand why you want an option but my only concern is the impact financially. I’ve said numerous times if you can pick up Dembele for £30-40m max it’s pushing it a bit but worth it. But I don’t want us splashing £50/60m on a squad player until RW is sorted out.
I have quoted my post saying that the striker is more important than RW at this moment if we fail to secure Ighalo and you are still ignoring it.

Let me tell you one thing, Sancho will cost 100m-130m at the moment and we had used 50m on Bruno in January. It's very unlikely we will have 150m or above net spend this year give the covid19, I won't be surprised that our current budget for this year won't allow us to sign Sancho. It makes sense that this year if we only getting striker aka replacing Haland/Lukaku's spot first then the next year we can sign Sancho or RW.

Liverpool have just wont the CL and are very likely to win the PL so of course better players are going to be more content playing there. I’m sorry but you can’t ignore your competitors and putting your fingers in your ears when you know I’ve made a very valid point about other teams current squads for example Liverpool having Origi on the bench and still able to walk the league I think vindicates my point that your first XI and keeping them fit is the most important thing (Werner hasn’t agreed anything so don’t float names as a given)

Martial and Rashford aren’t there yet but they are still young and in a developing team not a finished product like many of the other sides I mentioned but that is where we need to get to and Martial and Rashford will not be playing with better players if you bring in Dembele but will if you bring in Sancho.

Yes I agree he wanted Haaland (so would I he’s got a lot of potential!) and yes he wanted to keep Lukaku but guess what Lukaku DID NOT WANT TO BE ON THE BENCH BECAUSE HE’S A TOP PLAYER!

I do read all the posts before posting myself and you didn’t I respond to each of your points and you ignore the ones I make that you can’t counter (like the squads of top sides).

We agree on several points that we would both love a top quality striker option in the squad but a key difference here is I don’t think it’s happening this window because I think we have bigger targets and won’t be able to spend big on the kind of quality you want.

But to re iterate I would love a great world class option off the bench like Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov used to offer but I accept that we aren’t currently the best side in England and are far behind the best in Europe and I strongly believe the best way to get there is to improve the first team and starting XI as a priority before splashing cash on squad option which we eventually need to do.

I hope you can see where we have common ground and understand my reasons for disagreeing with your points.
I think I've said this before that I'm not going to blaberring with you with what other clubs do. You can't compare us to others club. The reality is the manager wanted Haland & we are linked with Dembele since Lukaku left and we had sent scouts to watch Dembele but guess what NEITHER ARE TOP PLAYERS WHICH MAKES THEM SUITABLE FOR THE ROLE THAT LUKAKU REJECTED.
 

BenitoSTARR

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The point of having it now is not so we can win the league. I think I said this like 10x already.



I understand you have different opinion but doesn't mean my opinion doesn't make any sense just because you can't accept the disagreement/different thing. We are are not signing world class here, we are signing players who still have plenty of time to develop & learn which is why we are linked with Dembele & Haland who are more suitable for the role, and I've said this like 10x already, the idea of signing young player is not just based on long term playing for United but also investment if player isn't happy and wants to leave, we can get something from them. I'll highlight it just for you.
Having it now isn’t something I feel is realistic. Do you believe we can get a top RW spend £40m+ on Dembele and add to our midfield etc in one window? Because I do not. Before coronavirus I would optimistically say there is half a chance but I think we are much more likely to invest in young talent and maybe add an experienced striker. Ultimately we won’t know until the end of the window but I’d love to see who is right and if it’s you I’ll apologise!

I think we now understand each other a bit better we just have vastly different opinions on what is most important in the squad I think it’s improving the first XI you think it’s having a Dembele type on the bench.

I have no issue with Haaland being signed for lots of money. Dembele isn’t the same profile in terms of talent potential and age so it’s not the same. Haaland would retain value and if anything maybe gain value. I can guarantee you sign Dembele for let’s say £40m being on the side of caution and you are not making a profit on him in future. He’s reached physical maturity and he doesn’t have the technical ability of strikers above him in world football. You may disagree and that’s fine but it’s just my opinion. I have accepted the disagreement in my previous post.

I have quoted my post saying that the striker is more important than RW at this moment if we fail to secure Ighalo and you are still ignoring it.

Let me tell you one thing, Sancho will cost 100m-130m at the moment and we had used 50m on Bruno in January. It's very unlikely we will have 150m or above net spend this year give the covid19, I won't be surprised that our current budget for this year won't allow us to sign Sancho. It makes sense that this year if we only getting striker aka replacing Haland/Lukaku's spot first then the next year we can sign Sancho or RW.

I think I've said this before that I'm not going to blaberring with you with what other clubs do. You can't compare us to others club. The reality is the manager wanted Haland & we are linked with Dembele since Lukaku left and we had sent scouts to watch Dembele but guess what NEITHER ARE TOP PLAYERS WHICH MAKES THEM SUITABLE FOR THE ROLE THAT LUKAKU REJECTED.
I haven’t ignored it. Read my posts. I have said if we don’t get Ighalo we cannot go into the season with just Martial and Greenwood. We need a striker.

However if you ask me do we need a back up to Martial or a starting RW I don’t see how getting a better starting XI with one of the most promising young talents in world football is less of a priority then a back up goalscorer. Rashford, Martial and Sancho has a lovely mix of technique creativity and goalscoring ability. Take Sancho out and you lose a lot from our starting XI! Greenwood is too young but impressive, Mata has no pace, James is a LW and useless in tight games and Lingard or Pereira out wide makes bored thinking about it haha.

I understand your concerns about a post covid market and I think we have similar expectations in terms of net spend but I feel it’s better to focus in a tough market on one really quality player like we did with Fernandes and see if we get that instant improvement. Dembele wouldn’t give us that. So for me I’d rather splurge big on a starter like Sancho than on back up and accept that might mean a lower quality back up CF coming in on the cheap.

Haaland wanted to start games hence he didn’t move to United. Dembele isn’t a top player I’m glad you agree! I think he’d be ok on the bench I’ve not said otherwise but it’s exactly because he isn’t a top player that I don’t see the point spending so much on him when we have a much more promising young player coming through.

As I’ve said many times if we can pick him up for £30-40m that’s about the max I’d pay for a squad striker who doesn’t have bags of potential like Dembele but I think we are better off saving our money scrimping on a cheaper option as back up like most big clubs do at the moment and see the effect of adding another top quality player to the sides starting XI

I think to summarise and correct me if I’m wrong this is how I understand your viewpoint:

1)A striker is more important than RW at the moment
2)You believe we need a goalscorer from the bench above a first XI signing as you feel Sancho is too expensive now so a bench striker would be a cheaper boost.
3)You believe we could get Dembele for a fee around £40-60m which you feel is good value as he will be potentially worth more in future if we sell or stay at similar value.

Now to summarise my viewpoint:
1)We need a striker if Ighalo isn’t kept regardless of what happens in other positions. We agree on this.
2)This striker doesn’t need to be expensive as to me they are a stop gap between Martial and Greenwood who deserves a chance. We disagree on this.
3)I would love a quality stop gap for a reasonable fee £30m-£40m but am open to spending more on someone who is very promising like Haaland. We’re in the middle on this?
4) Improving the first XI is more important than the bench and I believe we should focus on RW as it is our last attacking gap which has been our issue this season. Not creating enough against tight defences. We disagree on this.
5)I believe we can afford Sancho this season if we focus our efforts on his signing and believe aiming for Dembele for £40-60m would be detrimental to this. I accept that signing Sancho will impact the other signings and am willing to make those savings by signing lower quality stop gaps in the ST position. We disagree.

Thoughts?
 

BenitoSTARR

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If neither are top players then they are suitable to Replace as Lukuku was far from a top player and would clearly have been a bench player for Utd this season, which was all he deserved.
And if that is the accepted case that they aren’t top players why pay so much for them and what realistic impact will an average player have from the bench over a top player who starts week in week out?
 

James Peril

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Honestly, for the role we want our 9 to play he would be perfect in that sense.

He plays a very similar role for Holland/Lyon as a pressing striker that can hold the ball up/link play, and the wide men play the inside forward roles.
And he would not be perfect in the sense that he isn't anywhere near good enough for where we are or where we want to be. Up with the standards lads, we are not Everton or Wolves.
 

BenitoSTARR

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And he would not be perfect in the sense that he isn't anywhere near good enough for where we are or where we want to be. Up with the standards lads, we are not Everton or Wolves.
We’re talking of him as a back up striker. Who would you suggest?
 

Adam-Utd

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And he would not be perfect in the sense that he isn't anywhere near good enough for where we are or where we want to be. Up with the standards lads, we are not Everton or Wolves.
He wasn't great when he was with us for whatever reason but he's improved a lot since then, sometimes that happens. I'm sure Chelsea fans said the same about KDB/Salah.
 

BenitoSTARR

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And he would not be perfect in the sense that he isn't anywhere near good enough for where we are or where we want to be. Up with the standards lads, we are not Everton or Wolves.
League 13 games 9 goals 2 assists
Champions League 5 games 5 goals

He’s got a big injury but that’s not bad.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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And if that is the accepted case that they aren’t top players why pay so much for them and what realistic impact will an average player have from the bench over a top player who starts week in week out?
Value of the players don't always reflect current status or ability, but the potential what they can bring. This is why you also need to view it as part of investment. Martial is not Kane or Suarez or Lewandowski, both Dembele & Haland have chance to challenge Martial's spot, giving more competition.
 

A9X SJ

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I would prefer Edouard from Celtic looks destined for the top & will be cheaper
 
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And if that is the accepted case that they aren’t top players why pay so much for them and what realistic impact will an average player have from the bench over a top player who starts week in week out?
Certainly not arguing that point! No desire to buy Dembele at all. Would be a pointless signing.

every club has limited finances and budgets, and we don’t want to be spending £60m on a player who doesn’t go straight into the first team.
 

golden_blunder

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We are being linked with Plea today so even if we can’t resign Ighalo to another loan I think we are still planning a deal of that sort. No way we are spending big on a striker, never mind one that’s not automatic first choice
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Having it now isn’t something I feel is realistic. Do you believe we can get a top RW spend £40m+ on Dembele and add to our midfield etc in one window? Because I do not. Before coronavirus I would optimistically say there is half a chance but I think we are much more likely to invest in young talent and maybe add an experienced striker. Ultimately we won’t know until the end of the window but I’d love to see who is right and if it’s you I’ll apologise!

I think we now understand each other a bit better we just have vastly different opinions on what is most important in the squad I think it’s improving the first XI you think it’s having a Dembele type on the bench.

I have no issue with Haaland being signed for lots of money. Dembele isn’t the same profile in terms of talent potential and age so it’s not the same. Haaland would retain value and if anything maybe gain value. I can guarantee you sign Dembele for let’s say £40m being on the side of caution and you are not making a profit on him in future. He’s reached physical maturity and he doesn’t have the technical ability of strikers above him in world football. You may disagree and that’s fine but it’s just my opinion. I have accepted the disagreement in my previous post.


I haven’t ignored it. Read my posts. I have said if we don’t get Ighalo we cannot go into the season with just Martial and Greenwood. We need a striker.

However if you ask me do we need a back up to Martial or a starting RW I don’t see how getting a better starting XI with one of the most promising young talents in world football is less of a priority then a back up goalscorer. Rashford, Martial and Sancho has a lovely mix of technique creativity and goalscoring ability. Take Sancho out and you lose a lot from our starting XI! Greenwood is too young but impressive, Mata has no pace, James is a LW and useless in tight games and Lingard or Pereira out wide makes bored thinking about it haha.

I understand your concerns about a post covid market and I think we have similar expectations in terms of net spend but I feel it’s better to focus in a tough market on one really quality player like we did with Fernandes and see if we get that instant improvement. Dembele wouldn’t give us that. So for me I’d rather splurge big on a starter like Sancho than on back up and accept that might mean a lower quality back up CF coming in on the cheap.

Haaland wanted to start games hence he didn’t move to United. Dembele isn’t a top player I’m glad you agree! I think he’d be ok on the bench I’ve not said otherwise but it’s exactly because he isn’t a top player that I don’t see the point spending so much on him when we have a much more promising young player coming through.

As I’ve said many times if we can pick him up for £30-40m that’s about the max I’d pay for a squad striker who doesn’t have bags of potential like Dembele but I think we are better off saving our money scrimping on a cheaper option as back up like most big clubs do at the moment and see the effect of adding another top quality player to the sides starting XI

I think to summarise and correct me if I’m wrong this is how I understand your viewpoint:

1)A striker is more important than RW at the moment
2)You believe we need a goalscorer from the bench above a first XI signing as you feel Sancho is too expensive now so a bench striker would be a cheaper boost.
3)You believe we could get Dembele for a fee around £40-60m which you feel is good value as he will be potentially worth more in future if we sell or stay at similar value.

Now to summarise my viewpoint:
1)We need a striker if Ighalo isn’t kept regardless of what happens in other positions. We agree on this.
2)This striker doesn’t need to be expensive as to me they are a stop gap between Martial and Greenwood who deserves a chance. We disagree on this.
3)I would love a quality stop gap for a reasonable fee £30m-£40m but am open to spending more on someone who is very promising like Haaland. We’re in the middle on this?
4) Improving the first XI is more important than the bench and I believe we should focus on RW as it is our last attacking gap which has been our issue this season. Not creating enough against tight defences. We disagree on this.
5)I believe we can afford Sancho this season if we focus our efforts on his signing and believe aiming for Dembele for £40-60m would be detrimental to this. I accept that signing Sancho will impact the other signings and am willing to make those savings by signing lower quality stop gaps in the ST position. We disagree.

Thoughts?
It's not about us to finally understand each other, it's about you were not picking up the points here. You are pretending that you "haven't ignored it" when clearly you had before and still have or at least I can see that you are being all over the place. For example, why ask this question: "Do you believe we can get a top RW spend £40m+ on Dembele and add to our midfield etc in one window?"
When clearly in the post you replied, I stated: "Let me tell you one thing, Sancho will cost 100m-130m at the moment and we had used 50m on Bruno in January. It's very unlikely we will have 150m or above net spend this year".

I never really ask what you think. There is a reason why I called what I believe about getting striker if we fail to secure Ighalo is more priority as an unpopular opinion.

Getting Sancho doesn't make our XI as invincible. I'm sure there will be lot of times when we still need someone from the bench to rescue or change the game despite of having Sancho in XI. And you don't want to rely on teenager alone to rescue. And again, I don't need to tell you like 100x the bench thing is just one from others factor. Having someone like Haland or Dembele will also provide competition and squad rotation for Rashford & Martial. This is what the manager wants and I believe he's correct.
 

Rozay

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We are being linked with Plea today so even if we can’t resign Ighalo to another loan I think we are still planning a deal of that sort. No way we are spending big on a striker, never mind one that’s not automatic first choice
Pleá won’t be cheap, unless there’s some sort of COVID discount. He’s Gladbach’s star striker, and they paid 25m for him.

I could see us going back for Josh King personally, which I’d be here for.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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We are being linked with Plea today so even if we can’t resign Ighalo to another loan I think we are still planning a deal of that sort. No way we are spending big on a striker, never mind one that’s not automatic first choice
Whichever. However, it's not like Plea will cost cheap either. Didn't he linked with Barcelona before for 55m?

You will not find a young striker who can score constantly 15-20 goals in the last 5 years for less than 40m initial fees in today's market.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Whichever. However, it's not like Plea will cost cheap either. Didn't he linked with Barcelona before for 55m?

You will not find a young striker who can score constantly 15-20 goals in the last 5 years for less than 40m initial fees in today's market.
Agreed so if we have to spend big why not wait till next year and fix the starting XI. Give Greenwood the chance to be that player and save us £60m by getting a stop gap?

Value of the players don't always reflect current status or ability, but the potential what they can bring. This is why you also need to view it as part of investment. Martial is not Kane or Suarez or Lewandowski, both Dembele & Haland have chance to challenge Martial's spot, giving more competition.
Agreed on value reflecting potential which is why I don’t think Dembele is worth £40m plus. Feels like a Haller deal to me.

Certainly not arguing that point! No desire to buy Dembele at all. Would be a pointless signing.

every club has limited finances and budgets, and we don’t want to be spending £60m on a player who doesn’t go straight into the first team.
Agreed. Doesn’t make sense to me to blow so much on a bench player.

We are being linked with Plea today so even if we can’t resign Ighalo to another loan I think we are still planning a deal of that sort. No way we are spending big on a striker, never mind one that’s not automatic first choice
We do need a striker and Plea would be a decent back up.

It's not about us to finally understand each other, it's about you were not picking up the points here. You are pretending that you "haven't ignored it" when clearly you had before and still have or at least I can see that you are being all over the place. For example, why ask this question: "Do you believe we can get a top RW spend £40m+ on Dembele and add to our midfield etc in one window?"
When clearly in the post you replied, I stated: "Let me tell you one thing, Sancho will cost 100m-130m at the moment and we had used 50m on Bruno in January. It's very unlikely we will have 150m or above net spend this year".

I never really ask what you think. There is a reason why I called what I believe about getting striker if we fail to secure Ighalo is more priority as an unpopular opinion.

Getting Sancho doesn't make our XI as invincible. I'm sure there will be lot of times when we still need someone from the bench to rescue or change the game despite of having Sancho in XI. And you don't want to rely on teenager alone to rescue. And again, I don't need to tell you like 100x the bench thing is just one from others factor. Having someone like Haland or Dembele will also provide competition and squad rotation for Rashford & Martial. This is what the manager wants and I believe he's correct.
I am picking up every point if you read what I’m saying in full don’t skim it read it. I’m responding paragraph by paragraph to each of your points.

I ask you this question because I believe the answer you give me will help me understand whether you think we need more then just a back up striker. It will let me understand better how much you feel Dembele is needed and your views on the wider squad situation. I’m trying to understand you’re wider views to get context.

Saying we won’t have upwards of £150m net spend still allows for us to buy Sancho £100m with £50m without sales. With sales conservatively we could generate £20-30m on top of this. So my questions are valid as I wish to know if you feel with £150m net what we can achieve and what you would do. This helps me understand your position on the striker situation in terms of its wider importance better.

I know you didn’t ask what I think but it’s a forum I’m assuming you posted knowing you would get a response and rather than countering a lot of points you are just ignoring them.

I completely agree Sancho does not make our first XI invincible and nobody has claimed that so why even say it? You’re putting words into play that nobody uses. I am confident Sancho would improve our RW position because we literally have no natural RW. We have Mata, Greenwood, James who play there none of who are best suited to the wings. Mata plays inside, Greenwood as Ole has said is a CF and James is a LW who only works on the counter. Sancho is a nice mix of pace, dribbling, goalscoring and creativity not world class but a very promising player. None of current options are what i would class as top 4 RW material. None of them.

There will be more times we need a starting XI player to unlock defences and provide from wide areas and if we don’t sign that player this window then Greenwood and James will be splitting that role so the pressure is then even more on the teenager or younger inexperienced player. Do you see the irony?

I believe having depth in the squad will help and Haaland would be incredible to have it it’s not going to happen and Dembele is not worth the money quoted to have as a depth option when other players can do that job to a good standard for much less.

I’m assuming that the lack of response to my final summary of your views that I understand you correctly but we just fundamentally disagree on what to do. I don’t see us having a productive discussion as I end up repeating myself when you don’t read what I’m actually arguing.

I am only arguing Dembele is not worth £60m as he would be a squad option and if rather spend then money elsewhere. I still want a striker and he could be it if he’s a lot cheaper!
 

poleglass red

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neither Demeble or Plea are what you'd call prolific strikers, neither was Josh King or even Ighalo. Ole is obviously looking to create a fluid front 3 where all 3 share the scoring as opposed to one central striker banging them in. We've seen the impact Ighalo has made in his short spell. It could be argued that Dembele or Plea don't play for the top teams in their respective leagues and maybe at a bigger club with better players their goal tally will increase. I personally like Dembele, don't know much about Plea, but 60 mill in a post covid market seems overly excessive
 

lenny_1248

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We are being linked with Plea today so even if we can’t resign Ighalo to another loan I think we are still planning a deal of that sort. No way we are spending big on a striker, never mind one that’s not automatic first choice
Finally someone spitting the truth.
Lacazette was a better player with a far better stats than Dembele. So, is he (Lacca) tearing it up in Premier League scoring 20+ goals? I don't think so.
There is no way in hell he is better than Martial. And buying a player for 40 plus millions in this situation makes zero sense, especially after the coronavirus.
I'd love Ighalo, but if the club would not be able to sign him, I think they will just go on with Martial, Greenwood and Rashford (if Sancho comes). Which is risky, but is not as bad as some people think.
 
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UNITED ACADEMY

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I am picking up every point if you read what I’m saying in full don’t skim it read it. I’m responding paragraph by paragraph to each of your points.

I ask you this question because I believe the answer you give me will help me understand whether you think we need more then just a back up striker. It will let me understand better how much you feel Dembele is needed and your views on the wider squad situation. I’m trying to understand you’re wider views to get context.

Saying we won’t have upwards of £150m net spend still allows for us to buy Sancho £100m with £50m without sales. With sales conservatively we could generate £20-30m on top of this. So my questions are valid as I wish to know if you feel with £150m net what we can achieve and what you would do. This helps me understand your position on the striker situation in terms of its wider importance better.

I know you didn’t ask what I think but it’s a forum I’m assuming you posted knowing you would get a response and rather than countering a lot of points you are just ignoring them.

I completely agree Sancho does not make our first XI invincible and nobody has claimed that so why even say it? You’re putting words into play that nobody uses. I am confident Sancho would improve our RW position because we literally have no natural RW. We have Mata, Greenwood, James who play there none of who are best suited to the wings. Mata plays inside, Greenwood as Ole has said is a CF and James is a LW who only works on the counter. Sancho is a nice mix of pace, dribbling, goalscoring and creativity not world class but a very promising player. None of current options are what i would class as top 4 RW material. None of them.

There will be more times we need a starting XI player to unlock defences and provide from wide areas and if we don’t sign that player this window then Greenwood and James will be splitting that role so the pressure is then even more on the teenager or younger inexperienced player. Do you see the irony?

I believe having depth in the squad will help and Haaland would be incredible to have it it’s not going to happen and Dembele is not worth the money quoted to have as a depth option when other players can do that job to a good standard for much less.

I’m assuming that the lack of response to my final summary of your views that I understand you correctly but we just fundamentally disagree on what to do. I don’t see us having a productive discussion as I end up repeating myself when you don’t read what I’m actually arguing.

I am only arguing Dembele is not worth £60m as he would be a squad option and if rather spend then money elsewhere. I still want a striker and he could be it if he’s a lot cheaper!
There is no point asking the question but still pretended that you are picking up points when the answer already been posted in previous posts. I specifically also already mentioned in my previous post that my view is that strengthened the starting XI is more important than strength the squad option, but the striker's case is a different case. The fact that you asked the question to understand my views on the wider squad situation shows enough how you're all over the place and missed the points.

The issue is that we aren't going to spend 150m net spend this year. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you again what's more priority in my view and why I believe Ole's decision wanted to sign a striker despite already have Greenwood which also part of the reason why I said Sancho won't make our XI invincible

What irony? Just because we don't have Sancho doesn't mean we don't have enough players in XI to unlock defense. Bruno, Pogba, Martial & Rashford. While player like Greenwood & James are not being burdened to be expected to make something alone in XI due to those four. Ole see Greenwood to be striker doesn't mean he can't play different position. There were strikers out there who started on the wide and benefit from playing there.

Just because I don't specifically quote it, doesn't mean I didn't respond to it. When I said "You are pretending that you "haven't ignored it" when clearly you had before and still have or at least I can see that you are being all over the place. For example...... ". That's also me referring to your final summary which pretty much shows how unnecessary the questions that you asked because you should have know the answers.
 

BenitoSTARR

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There is no point asking the question but still pretended that you are picking up points when the answer already been posted in previous posts. I specifically also already mentioned in my previous post that my view is that strengthened the starting XI is more important than strength the squad option, but the striker's case is a different case. The fact that you asked the question to understand my views on the wider squad situation shows enough how you're all over the place and missed the points.

The issue is that we aren't going to spend 150m net spend this year. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you again what's more priority in my view and why I believe Ole's decision wanted to sign a striker despite already have Greenwood which also part of the reason why I said Sancho won't make our XI invincible

What irony? Just because we don't have Sancho doesn't mean we don't have enough players in XI to unlock defense. Bruno, Pogba, Martial & Rashford. While player like Greenwood & James are not being burdened to be expected to make something alone in XI due to those four. Ole see Greenwood to be striker doesn't mean he can't play different position. There were strikers out there who started on the wide and benefit from playing there.

Just because I don't specifically quote it, doesn't mean I didn't respond to it. When I said "You are pretending that you "haven't ignored it" when clearly you had before and still have or at least I can see that you are being all over the place. For example...... ". That's also me referring to your final summary which pretty much shows how unnecessary the questions that you asked because you should have know the answers.
So I shouldn’t try to clarify your position to understand you? Jesus can you not deal with someone disagreeing with you?

Look at what everyone else is posting all in agreement with my views I’m not all over the place I am literally responding to your views on a post by post basis paragraph by paragraph.

So you argue that the starting XI is more important so we should by that logic focus on Sancho over Dembele. But then you say the striker is different but you’re not really doing a good job of explaining how you can believe the first XI is the most important thing expect in this case you’d rather have a back up striker than a first XI winger. Do you see the contradiction in your own logic.

I ask you for clarity on your squad views not because I’m all over the place but because I want to give you the opportunity to explain your position clearly. The fact you are refraining from doing so is very telling of either your lack of argument or inability to do so.

I know Ole wants to sign a striker. So do I if we can’t keep Ighalo. Have you ever seen Groundhog Day?

The invincible comment is not needed nobody has expressed that view so it was detracting from what could be a good debate.

It’s ironic because you want to have better options on the bench to avoid playing Greenwood as he’s not good enough yet in your view but then Greenwood would be playing RW more if you don’t bring in someone like Sancho. So you don’t want him playing as much so your solution is to play him more out of position. Genius.

Those four players are very good so adding another quality option for another part of the field surely then completes the attack. We’d finally have balance and a threat all over the pitch because we don’t have one down the right side of the field. We have one glaring attacking gap and it’s RW you seem to want to ignore this or accept it as fine for a season. It is much better to have a top player in place and then rotate the youth into the team now and then rather than playing them week in week out. It causes young players to burn out quickly in the PL. Greenwood needs time to develop and starting on the RW isn’t in his best interests. By being forced into the starting XI they are taking on that burden week in week out to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

I would love another poster to confirm that I am trying to address your points as you make them. You’re now sounding a bit like a broken record I understand your views I agree with you on some aspects and disagree on some key things. Please move on.
 

Van Piorsing

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Bit out of the blue, probably a strong gambling rumor than news. Ighalo still our player and I doubt he wants to go back to China without trying to win EL and FA Cup with Man United. He would be also weird not trying to stay for longer.

As long as we're still focused on Sancho and type of player like Grealish we're good no matter what, but if there's a legit offer on the table then no problem. Goalscoring depth will always be useful in every competition in case of injuries or suspensions.
 

Adnan

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Pleá won’t be cheap, unless there’s some sort of COVID discount. He’s Gladbach’s star striker, and they paid 25m for him.

I could see us going back for Josh King personally, which I’d be here for.
They paid £20m for him per German media reports and will be affected by the current crisis financially. Plea is 27 and even the most generous buyer won't pay more than £30m for him right now.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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So I shouldn’t try to clarify your position to understand you? Jesus can you not deal with someone disagreeing with you?

Look at what everyone else is posting all in agreement with my views I’m not all over the place I am literally responding to your views on a post by post basis paragraph by paragraph.

So you argue that the starting XI is more important so we should by that logic focus on Sancho over Dembele. But then you say the striker is different but you’re not really doing a good job of explaining how you can believe the first XI is the most important thing expect in this case you’d rather have a back up striker than a first XI winger. Do you see the contradiction in your own logic.

I ask you for clarity on your squad views not because I’m all over the place but because I want to give you the opportunity to explain your position clearly. The fact you are refraining from doing so is very telling of either your lack of argument or inability to do so.

I know Ole wants to sign a striker. So do I if we can’t keep Ighalo. Have you ever seen Groundhog Day?

The invincible comment is not needed nobody has expressed that view so it was detracting from what could be a good debate.

It’s ironic because you want to have better options on the bench to avoid playing Greenwood as he’s not good enough yet in your view but then Greenwood would be playing RW more if you don’t bring in someone like Sancho. So you don’t want him playing as much so your solution is to play him more out of position. Genius.

Those four players are very good so adding another quality option for another part of the field surely then completes the attack. We’d finally have balance and a threat all over the pitch because we don’t have one down the right side of the field. We have one glaring attacking gap and it’s RW you seem to want to ignore this or accept it as fine for a season. It is much better to have a top player in place and then rotate the youth into the team now and then rather than playing them week in week out. It causes young players to burn out quickly in the PL. Greenwood needs time to develop and starting on the RW isn’t in his best interests. By being forced into the starting XI they are taking on that burden week in week out to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

I would love another poster to confirm that I am trying to address your points as you make them. You’re now sounding a bit like a broken record I understand your views I agree with you on some aspects and disagree on some key things. Please move on.
Anyone can ask to clarify. However, for someone who keep saying "I understand & read your points" in multiple times/posts, surely you shouldn't need to ask to clarify now.

What is this contradiction in my logic you're talking about? I'm sure I stated already on this thread that the idea of signing striker isn't just for "backup". I had posted it before like 5x to you and you should read them. When I told you didn't get the point is because you really didn't get it not because I'm mocking you.

I think what you need to understand is that Greenwood is not good enough to challenge Martial is different with Greenwood is not good enough being part of rotation with James. If it was always the case that Greenwood is good enough to challenge Martial, Ole wouldn't want to sign Haland in the first place. Both Greenwood & James are different players when they play on the right. This is why Ole was known with his flexibility on his formation & tactic. There will be time when Greenwood is more suitable start on the right and there will be time when James is more suitable start on the right, all depend on the opposition. Just because you don't understand, you don't need to be sarcastic, got it Mr Genius?

Sancho, Martial & Rashford current level now is not at the level that will make our attack complete. The reason why we want to sign Sancho because he's a young winger with potential of world class which suit to our rebuilding project not because we'll complete our attack with him now. Just because we are upgrading James with Sancho doesn't mean right now James can't provide the balance and thread all over the pitch.

When I called my opinion as unpopular opinion at the start of this thread which I quoted it already in our discussion before is for a reason that I understand lot of people will believe the RW is more important. And this unpopular opinion is not just based what I want but also what the manager wanted.

If you understand my views, you wouldn't keep asking questions to clarify and keep mistaken them. If you can't accept it then move on, don't be sarcastic. If you don't get the points then admit it and stop pretending you got it. Not difficult.
 

Rozay

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They paid £20m for him per German media reports and will be affected by the current crisis financially. Plea is 27 and even the most generous buyer won't pay more than £30m for him right now.
He’s not for sale. If a team fee they are being ‘generous’ to Gladbach by taking their main striker for a maximum of £30m they are probably mistaken. I suspect they are more than happy to keep Pléa, especially if one of the richest club in the world can’t see themselves willing to offer little more than they paid for him.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Anyone can ask to clarify. However, for someone who keep saying "I understand & read your points" in multiple times/posts, surely you shouldn't need to ask to clarify now.

What is this contradiction in my logic you're talking about? I'm sure I stated already on this thread that the idea of signing striker isn't just for "backup". I had posted it before like 5x to you and you should read them. When I told you didn't get the point is because you really didn't get it not because I'm mocking you.

I think what you need to understand is that Greenwood is not good enough to challenge Martial is different with Greenwood is not good enough being part of rotation with James. If it was always the case that Greenwood is good enough to challenge Martial, Ole wouldn't want to sign Haland in the first place. Both Greenwood & James are different players when they play on the right. This is why Ole was known with his flexibility on his formation & tactic. There will be time when Greenwood is more suitable start on the right and there will be time when James is more suitable start on the right, all depend on the opposition. Just because you don't understand, you don't need to be sarcastic, got it Mr Genius?

Sancho, Martial & Rashford current level now is not at the level that will make our attack complete. The reason why we want to sign Sancho because he's a young winger with potential of world class which suit to our rebuilding project not because we'll complete our attack with him now. Just because we are upgrading James with Sancho doesn't mean right now James can't provide the balance and thread all over the pitch.

When I called my opinion as unpopular opinion at the start of this thread which I quoted it already in our discussion before is for a reason that I understand lot of people will believe the RW is more important. And this unpopular opinion is not just based what I want but also what the manager wanted.

If you understand my views, you wouldn't keep asking questions to clarify and keep mistaken them. If you can't accept it then move on, don't be sarcastic. If you don't get the points then admit it and stop pretending you got it. Not difficult.
I only asked for clarity on a question you hadn’t answered. I know your opinion as I pointed out earlier and honestly I am bored of this back and forth. You aren’t adding anything new now.

The contradiction as I have explained is you arguing on the one hand we need depth while being happy to play James/Greenwood as our starting RW. If Greenwood is not good enough to push Martial for a back up position then he’s not good enough to start in his weaker position. Just because James isn’t good enough to be a starter it doesn’t mean Greenwood is good competition it means that issue needs addressing. I understand your view now because you are now saying James and Greenwood is fine for RW to rotate between. I think you’re very wrong and when you keep saying I don’t understand it is funny! Just because someone disagrees with you it doesn’t mean that haven’t understood you. I simply believe you are wrong.

Nobody is saying Sancho, Martial and Rashford are the best around and complete but they are very promising more so then Dembele and all three of them have shown far more promise in their careers then he has at any point in his. Sancho will complete the attack in the sense of having balance and top quality over the pitch unless you don’t think he is currently a top quality player or you think Rashford isn’t good enough for LF/LW or perhaps you think Martial? But as a three fluid I can’t see it not working well.

Daniel James is a player I like but if you’re honestly saying he’s good enough to start for us and offer balance when we all know he’s a LW naturally I seriously question your understanding of the squad as is.

I agree it’s unpopular. We know we disagree we’ve heard each other’s responses and I think we move on. The opinion is not based on what Ole wants because he has also scouted RW and Sancho so how are you deciding he wants a striker more? Can you read minds? No one can claim they know what he personally wants more between a RW and ST but you can assess the squad and make your own opinion.

You know I understand you’re being a wind up merchant now so I’m ending this discussion. If you don’t understand my position by now then as the old saying goes. Never mud wrestle a pig, you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it. It’s been emotional.