Moyes So Far!

Status
Not open for further replies.

RedTillI'mDead

A Key Tool
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
5,475
Location
London
The OP must get a tagline of being a knee jerk.

Knee jerk for what? By nature this thread is knee jerk for key events as Moyes progresses at United, but it is not knee jerk in the way you would suggest in terms of trying to make any conclusive opinion, as others have said it is too soon for that.

To me the knee jerks are all the people jumping in to say how terrible this thread is without using their brain to appreciate what it is trying to achieve.
 

Hectic

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
75,346
Supports
30fps
Is there any real point in having a thread assessing what Moyes has done when he's been in the job for a grand total of 2 weeks? I understand having it for the future, say once he's actually done something, but there's already 11 points in the OP judging him either positively or negatively on things, nearly all of which we have zero idea about.

Are the 11 things in the OP key achievements or key events? No, they are just things he's been involved in since he came in.
 

Backrow Singer

Full Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
1,116
Location
Back row. Singing.
Give him time before we start judging him. He has taken over from the greatest Manchester United manager of all time, and has been in the job 2 weeks. Let's see where he is at come Christmas.
 

RedTillI'mDead

A Key Tool
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
5,475
Location
London
I think the Caf built up the Thiago to United transfer so much that us not getting him is hard to take for a few members. I'm pretty sure ths thread wouldn't exist had we signed him.

It's definitely too premature to be listing Moyes pros and cons. I genuinely worry about the reaction amongst sections of our support should we go through a bad patch during the season.

I agree I was pretty disappointed we missed out in Thiago after all the build up. He looked perfect for us. However, this thread is valid at any point, as it is simply saying what are we happy about and what are we not so happy about and this will of course grow as time goes on. Someone has to plant a seed so why not do it now while it is early and not a knee jerk, as opposed to down the line when as you say we have a few bad results and suddenly the only focus is on the negatives.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
Too soon for what, to start a thread that builds up the key achievements and points where he has fallen short. This is something that builds over time, as with any other thread. If this was a "shall we sack Moyes" thread then yes agreed, it would be retarded, it would be stupid, but this thread is not that. It is simply a qualitative assessment of Moyes actions, which in reality is a summary of everything this forum is about!
Just look at the negative points you have make. For not convincing Scholes to stay because he wanted to rest and to spend some time with his family, for losing a meaningless pre-season friendly, for not forcing Rooney to sign a contract etc. None of them are negative at all. What is negative about him saying we don't have a budget, do you really expect the clubs will ask for more money now. If that is the case, then every manager of a big club would say that the club have only a budget of X amount of money, when X is the money they plan to bid for Y player. It never worked this way. Or Thiago's case, he wanted to go play under his mentor, I doubt that even great SAF could have signed him.

It is a total stupid thread at this time. There aren't actual positives or negatives until now, because you know, he's there for just two weeks and we haven't played a single competitive match, lose or sign a new player.
 

Hectic

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
75,346
Supports
30fps
I agree I was pretty disappointed we missed out in Thiago after all the build up. He looked perfect for us. However, this thread is valid at any point, as it is simply saying what are we happy about and what are we not so happy about and this will of course grow as time goes on. Someone has to plant a seed so why not do it now while it is early and not a knee jerk, as opposed to down the line when as you say we have a few bad results and suddenly the only focus is on the negatives.
That's fine, just don't include your OP then, because they aren't key achievements or events. Half the stuff in that OP is hard to comment on because you have no idea how it happened, and you can't attribute stuff as positives/negatives at this stage. It doesn't really make sense asking to judge Moyes on key events only when they come around, but then start it off with a load of non-key events that you nor anyone else is in a position to judge Moyes on.
 

Waldner

Balloon headed Pokemon innovator & kitten murderer
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Messages
6,452
Some of the replies to this thread are ridiculous. I imagine most of you ripping into this guy for making this thread are also the ones moaning about how the standard of the forum has been slipping.

And why are most of you saying its a shit and ridiculous thread so often? Have your way once and let it be, why are you saying it constantly? It must be for attention or something. Show the guy some respect, atleast he's contributing some form of discussion, even if he only gets replies of 'hurr hurr shit thread'
 

Hectic

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
75,346
Supports
30fps
Some of the replies to this thread are ridiculous. I imagine most of you ripping into this guy for making this thread are also the ones moaning about how the standard of the forum has been slipping.

And why are most of you saying its a shit and ridiculous thread so often? Have your way once and let it be, why are you saying it constantly? It must be for attention or something. Show the guy some respect, atleast he's contributing some form of discussion, even if he only gets replies of 'hurr hurr shit thread'
To be fair Waldner, that doesn't really make sense. It's more likely people are suggesting the standards are slipping because of threads like this. You can't really highlight this thread for being a decent place to prompt discussion, not when there is actually nothing to discuss, which is kind of the point of all the criticism. Moyes has had 2 weeks, so there aren't any "key events" to discuss, which makes this pointless does it not?
 

Cina

full member
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
50,911
To be fair Waldner, that doesn't really make sense. It's more likely people are suggesting the standards are slipping because of threads like this. You can't really highlight this thread for being a decent place to prompt discussion, not when there is actually nothing to discuss, which is kind of the point of all the criticism. Moyes has had 2 weeks, so there aren't any "key events" to discuss, which makes this pointless does it not?
Well, dunno about that, some of his outfit choices have been very questionable.
 

RedTillI'mDead

A Key Tool
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
5,475
Location
London
Just look at the negative points you have make. For not convincing Scholes to stay because he wanted to rest and to spend some time with his family, for losing a meaningless pre-season friendly, for not forcing Rooney to sign a contract etc. None of them are negative at all. What is negative about him saying we don't have a budget, do you really expect the clubs will ask for more money now. If that is the case, then every manager of a big club would say that the club have only a budget of X amount of money, when X is the money they plan to bid for Y player. It never worked this way. Or Thiago's case, he wanted to go play under his mentor, I doubt that even great SAF could have signed him.

It is a total stupid thread at this time. There aren't actual positives or negatives until now, because you know, he's there for just two weeks and we haven't played a single competitive match, lose or sign a new player.

And much of what you say above is a perfectly valid counter argument, however I would counter the above:

  • Scholes is one of the greatest midfielders United has ever seen, it is obvious that sharing his experience and skills would be tremendously beneficial to our players young and old. Whilst I would respect his wishes to spend more time with his family, I would also seek to find an inbetween ground, an irregular trainer as it were. He could come in for a week a month, which would mix up sessions, give Scholes coaching experience and help to provide continuity through his presence even if less regular. Again I'll repeat maybe all these conversations were had and if he had strong feelings against it there would be little Moyes could do. But, we can only speculate and as such if Moyes wanted something and it didn't happen, you can only add it to his list of arguably less positive points!
  • No match should be meaningless, pre-season or not. Instilling a mentality of winning should happen from under 8's through to full team pre season through to Champions league finals. If you demand winning you'll demand the work rate to ensure the wins. Yes we don't want to burn out, but this is pre-season training. Now is the time to get fit and by doing that the least we should be able to achieve is beating a Thai team.
  • The point about Rooney was not forcing him to sign a contract, the talk at the moment is that this conversation will not even happen. There is potentially a very viable reason for this, i.e. to assess his fitness and commitment over the next 6 months, however the risk does need to be considered and right now I would argue that the risk of losing Rooney at a lower price outweighs the risk of Rooney not being committed and fit for the next 3-4 years!
  • Yes I do think bragging about unlimited funds does have a negative influence in negotiations. It's a lot easier to say we can't afford so much because of those loans that you have heard to much than to say we don't want to pay more!
  • The point on Thiago could be completely true. He might see Pep as his mentor, but that is the point where Moyes should convince Thiago that he would be an equally great mentor, but highlight other points, like the fact he would make a big difference to United, not just be another making up numbers at Bayern. He could argue about the perceived quality of the Premier League and the point that it is the most marketable league in the world. He could do the speech about the 7, the great history of United, etc, etc. And again maybe all of this has happened, or maybe Moyes wasn't even interested, or not that interested, but we can only speculate as with much of this thread.
So whilst there may be more negatives in this thread than positives, I have not said anything to suggest that he could not turn around this thread substantially. For example, the £35m bid for Fabregas if real, could result in an arguably even greater signing than Thaigo, albeit not value could be debated at almost twice the price!
 

Waldner

Balloon headed Pokemon innovator & kitten murderer
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Messages
6,452
To be fair Waldner, that doesn't really make sense. It's more likely people are suggesting the standards are slipping because of threads like this. You can't really highlight this thread for being a decent place to prompt discussion, not when there is actually nothing to discuss, which is kind of the point of all the criticism. Moyes has had 2 weeks, so there aren't any "key events" to discuss, which makes this pointless does it not?
So then if there is no discussion be had, why aren't people just ignoring the thread as someone suggested earlier? Regardless of how good or bad the OP is, the people responding with trolls or repeated statements of how shit the thread is doesn't make the forum a better place to be, does it? Half of the people complaining here would have been complaining about the falling standards of posting, and yet here they are contributing to it themselves!

If you don't like the thread, why are people trying to get attention for themselves by acting the dick? A bad thread will naturally run its course and disappear if people just leave it be.
 

RedTillI'mDead

A Key Tool
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
5,475
Location
London
To be fair Waldner, that doesn't really make sense. It's more likely people are suggesting the standards are slipping because of threads like this. You can't really highlight this thread for being a decent place to prompt discussion, not when there is actually nothing to discuss, which is kind of the point of all the criticism. Moyes has had 2 weeks, so there aren't any "key events" to discuss, which makes this pointless does it not?

I agree in terms of weight this thread is more about events to date, rather than key events, as it is too early. But relative to taking a shit, eating lunch and getting photos taken I would suggest that losing the first match, missing out on potentially the best transfer of the summer, and letting go/ losing well rated coaches is all relatively key. What is not yet proven is whether these are material key events or simply events that were superceded by other key events.

For example, the new coaches might offer more and may give a more positive overall effect working with Moyes who they already know well. We might sign Fabregas which would override not signing Thiago, or might give Januzaj more chances are he could turn out to be great. We might win the rest of our pre-season games and suddenly one loss won't mean anything.

However, if we continue to lose pre-season games, if we don't sort out our midfield and if our players don't seem to work as well with our new coaches, these arguments could turn out to be very material!
 

RedTillI'mDead

A Key Tool
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
5,475
Location
London
So then if there is no discussion be had, why aren't people just ignoring the thread as someone suggested earlier? Regardless of how good or bad the OP is, the people responding with trolls or repeated statements of how shit the thread is doesn't make the forum a better place to be, does it? Half of the people complaining here would have been complaining about the falling standards of posting, and yet here they are contributing to it themselves!

If you don't like the thread, why are people trying to get attention for themselves by acting the dick? A bad thread will naturally run its course and disappear if people just leave it be.

Well said,

And geez it is the summer, there is far from anything concrete or interesting to talk about so we may as well talk about the relatively "key" points, even if it's only 2 weeks and even if they turn out to be pretty irrelevant. It feels more constructive than going ThaigON, ThiagOFF for 300 pages with very little added to the debate in terms of opinions, feelings, options, etc.
 

Hectic

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
75,346
Supports
30fps
So then if there is no discussion be had, why aren't people just ignoring the thread as someone suggested earlier? Regardless of how good or bad the OP is, the people responding with trolls or repeated statements of how shit the thread is doesn't make the forum a better place to be, does it? Half of the people complaining here would have been complaining about the falling standards of posting, and yet here they are contributing to it themselves!

If you don't like the thread, why are people trying to get attention for themselves by acting the dick? A bad thread will naturally run its course and disappear if people just leave it be.
Commenting on a thread, reasoning why it shouldn't have been made isn't contributing to the falling standards of posting. And there is no discussion to be had, because nothing has happened yet.

I think the reaction to the thread is kind of immaterial, yes, people could be less dickish about it, but then if you don't like the reaction, don't create a thread that's only going to receive negative reactions and continue to defend it whilst ignoring all the reasons people are telling you why it doesn't work.

And the idea shouldn't be that bad threads are made and eventually will - as long as no-one comments or bumps it again - die out. Typically what we've seen on here over the years, and it works, is that bad threads receive a lot of posts telling the thread starter it's a bad thread, and that person usually learns from their mistake.
 

Genius Me!

Proud EE fan, 10k club member & NSFW crew member
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
16,184
Positive: Gave Januzaj a chance on tour
Positive: Managed to keep Albert on as kit an
Positive: Put in a bid for a midfielder

Negative: Forced RedTillI'mDead to make a shit thread
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
  • Scholes is one of the greatest midfielders United has ever seen, it is obvious that sharing his experience and skills would be tremendously beneficial to our players young and old. Whilst I would respect his wishes to spend more time with his family, I would also seek to find an inbetween ground, an irregular trainer as it were. He could come in for a week a month, which would mix up sessions, give Scholes coaching experience and help to provide continuity through his presence even if less regular. Again I'll repeat maybe all these conversations were had and if he had strong feelings against it there would be little Moyes could do. But, we can only speculate and as such if Moyes wanted something and it didn't happen, you can only add it to his list of arguably less positive points!
Scholes apparently wanted some time out of football. Knowing Scholes no-one could have changed his mind. There is also the possibility that Moyes didn't want even more changes in the staff that he actually made, so he wasn't found of the idea to get another new coach. Probably it's better that the coaches to be settled here, and then to add Scholes when he actually is ready to return
  • No match should be meaningless, pre-season or not. Instilling a mentality of winning should happen from under 8's through to full team pre season through to Champions league finals. If you demand winning you'll demand the work rate to ensure the wins. Yes we don't want to burn out, but this is pre-season training. Now is the time to get fit and by doing that the least we should be able to achieve is beating a Thai team.
It is preseason. Sir Alex had a great winning mentality but at times we lost preseason matches. We lost against Chivas that season we signed Hernandez (and he scored against us). We then won the title and made the final on UCL. Pre-season friendlies are meaningless and they are only for fitness, to make some tactic changes and to watch young players. No one cares if we win or lose there and certainly you don't make a winning mentality by winning against a Thai team in a meaningless match
  • The point about Rooney was not forcing him to sign a contract, the talk at the moment is that this conversation will not even happen. There is potentially a very viable reason for this, i.e. to assess his fitness and commitment over the next 6 months, however the risk does need to be considered and right now I would argue that the risk of losing Rooney at a lower price outweighs the risk of Rooney not being committed and fit for the next 3-4 years!
We don't know what is happening behind the scenes. We haven't received an offer for Rooney yet. Moyes comments were spot on until now. There won't be a contract for Rooney because he wants one, he has yet to earn the last one. As Moyes said, Rooney is not bigger than the club and I full agree with him.
  • Yes I do think bragging about unlimited funds does have a negative influence in negotiations. It's a lot easier to say we can't afford so much because of those loans that you have heard to much than to say we don't want to pay more!
Clubs don't care if we have money or not. If you want to sign a player you must pay the money that club is willing the player to go for. You can say that we are starving but if you don't pay the amount of money the selling clubs is willing to accept for a player, there's nothing you can do. It is just media bollocks and nothing more.
  • The point on Thiago could be completely true. He might see Pep as his mentor, but that is the point where Moyes should convince Thiago that he would be an equally great mentor, but highlight other points, like the fact he would make a big difference to United, not just be another making up numbers at Bayern. He could argue about the perceived quality of the Premier League and the point that it is the most marketable league in the world. He could do the speech about the 7, the great history of United, etc, etc. And again maybe all of this has happened, or maybe Moyes wasn't even interested, or not that interested, but we can only speculate as with much of this thread.
Pep send Thiago to Barcelona B and then made him a first team player, playing 45 games in Pep's last season there. He always praised and believed on him. Pep's brother is Thiago's agent who would have told Pep anything about our discussions with Thiago (if there were in the first place). If Pep promised him playing time, Thiago would have been a fool to refuse him. His chances to feature in World Cup are actually much bigger playing in a system similar to that of Spain (if Pep will play a similar game to that of Barca) than playing in a formation completely different in United. Bayern has a great history, as much great as United. The only things we could have beat Bayern was playing time and money, but Bayern pay well too and if Pep guaranteed him playing time, then nothing was in our favor to sign him.
So whilst there may be more negatives in this thread than positives, I have not said anything to suggest that he could not turn around this thread substantially. For example, the £35m bid for Fabregas if real, could result in an arguably even greater signing than Thaigo, albeit not value could be debated at almost twice the price!
This is not the point. The point is that nothing has happened to make an evaluation about Moyes pro and contra key events, because you know, there haven't been a key event.
 

Waldner

Balloon headed Pokemon innovator & kitten murderer
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Messages
6,452
Commenting on a thread, reasoning why it shouldn't have been made isn't contributing to the falling standards of posting. And there is no discussion to be had, because nothing has happened yet.

I think the reaction to the thread is kind of immaterial, yes, people could be less dickish about it, but then if you don't like the reaction, don't create a thread that's only going to receive negative reactions and continue to defend it whilst ignoring all the reasons people are telling you why it doesn't work.

And the idea shouldn't be that bad threads are made and eventually will - as long as no-one comments or bumps it again - die out. Typically what we've seen on here over the years, and it works, is that bad threads receive a lot of posts telling the thread starter it's a bad thread, and that person usually learns from their mistake.
I can't even disagree with you, I think the OP has massively jumped the gun here and it wasn't a good thread to make. And you're right, people telling him he's wrong will teach him a lesson for the future, making him a a better poster. But there's a difference between reasoning with the guy (yes I know he's defending himself a bit too much...) and just taking the piss, or not contributing anything beyond saying how shit the topic is. You see where I'm coming from? People on here are massively arrogant and egotistical at times, and it's frustrating to see the same people moaning about the forum deteriorating go on to make posts which only add to the downward spiral!
 

ciderman9000000

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
29,640
Location
The General
I can't even disagree with you, I think the OP has massively jumped the gun here and it wasn't a good thread to make. And you're right, people telling him he's wrong will teach him a lesson for the future, making him a a better poster. But there's a difference between reasoning with the guy (yes I know he's defending himself a bit too much...) and just taking the piss, or not contributing anything beyond saying how shit the topic is. You see where I'm coming from? People on here are massively arrogant and egotistical at times, and it's frustrating to see the same people moaning about the forum deteriorating go on to make posts which only add to the downward spiral!
Are you new to the caf? When somebody makes a shit thread they get the piss ripped out of them. Deal with it.
 

RedTillI'mDead

A Key Tool
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
5,475
Location
London
Revan - Good response, well broken down and fair counter arguments again. At least unlike Cider you can actually construct arguments in a constructive manner, not just make pointless comments to act like a big man!
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,336
Location
india
Knee jerk for what? By nature this thread is knee jerk for key events as Moyes progresses at United, but it is not knee jerk in the way you would suggest in terms of trying to make any conclusive opinion, as others have said it is too soon for that.

To me the knee jerks are all the people jumping in to say how terrible this thread is without using their brain to appreciate what it is trying to achieve.
The point is that moyes has only just arrived and its not very constructive to sit and micro analyse his every single move.

Analysing his signings, sure. His eventual treatment of the Rooney saga, again, yes. The way he sets us up tactically, yes. But two weeks for us to sit here and discuss tiny issues we don't even know all that much about doesn't make any sense,
 

RedTillI'mDead

A Key Tool
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
5,475
Location
London
The point is that moyes has only just arrived and its not very constructive to sit and micro analyse his every single move.

Analysing his signings, sure. His eventual treatment of the Rooney saga, again, yes. The way he sets us up tactically, yes. But two weeks for us to sit here and discuss tiny issues we don't even know all that much about doesn't make any sense,

Ok so we are sitting in the middle of the summer and we shouldn't discuss transfers that haven't happened, we shouldn't discuss performance in pre-season friendlies, and we shouldn't discuss key contracts. What should we talk about?!
 

Moonwalker

Full Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
3,818
It's like an unwritten rule of this place that every discussion has to have this contrived amicability. If you're quoting poster A, you have to agree with at least 40% of what he's saying at all times. So you could have someone starting an OP in which he argues that Hitler was a good guy, or something that amounts to that conclusion. And the first person responding to it will say something like: "While I don't agree with this entirely, you do have some valid points in there. Hitler might not have been the nicest person around, but he does get a bad rep on here, and his humanitarian work is often overlooked."

It's absurd. Not everything deserves a response. Ridiculous propositions needn't be elevated to a status of respectability that way. If your thread is half-witted bollocks(like this one) you deserve to be laughed at.
 

Hectic

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
75,346
Supports
30fps
I can't even disagree with you, I think the OP has massively jumped the gun here and it wasn't a good thread to make. And you're right, people telling him he's wrong will teach him a lesson for the future, making him a a better poster. But there's a difference between reasoning with the guy (yes I know he's defending himself a bit too much...) and just taking the piss, or not contributing anything beyond saying how shit the topic is. You see where I'm coming from? People on here are massively arrogant and egotistical at times, and it's frustrating to see the same people moaning about the forum deteriorating go on to make posts which only add to the downward spiral!
I won't disagree with that, as I said, people could be less dickish about it, but it's also a custom if you like and a part of how Redcafe deals with bad things. It's probably not ideal, but it can be funny and usually ends with a lesson. Yeah it's obviously not the worst thread and I think had the OP been worded differently it probably would have gone by fairly unnoticed, but I don't think there's any serious abuse directed his way over it. I'd still keep things as is to be honest, rather than trying to settle every bad idea amicably. 9 times out of 10, bad threads receive a lot of attention, nearly all negative, and it's mostly hilarious. Sometimes bad posts just need to be mocked. I'm not saying Red's is necessarily like that, but in general it's a decent system.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,336
Location
india
Ok so we are sitting in the middle of the summer and we shouldn't discuss transfers that haven't happened, we shouldn't discuss performance in pre-season friendlies, and we shouldn't discuss key contracts. What should we talk about?!
Oh I have no problem with discussing at length about David Moyes. I just started a thread to discuss him as a tactician myself!

But two reasons why you've gotten this response.

A) some of the points you raise seem like knit picking. I mean "not convincing scholes to become a coach" is a very presumptive statement. Why is his job to sit and convince scholes? These are grown up individuals who make their own decisions. I don't see it as having anything to do with moyes. Same with the other two. He's here to manage Manchester United, not plead with everyone to help him do so.

Another example is the unlimited funds bit. These things are part of bing charge. You have to say nonsense like this keep people happy. Fergie and gill did it all the time.

B) your post comes across like a report card on David moyes so far with its pros and cons look. Two weeks in, I don't think fans want to sit and be that judgmental of moyes, at least not in such a definitive way, with 7 pluses and 5 minuses or whatever.
 

RedTillI'mDead

A Key Tool
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
5,475
Location
London
Oh I have no problem with discussing at length about David Moyes. I just started a thread to discuss him as a tactician myself!

But two reasons why you've gotten this response.

A) some of the points you raise seem like knit picking. I mean "not convincing scholes to become a coach" is a very presumptive statement. Why is his job to sit and convince scholes? These are grown up individuals who make their own decisions. I don't see it as having anything to do with moyes. Same with the other two. He's here to manage Manchester United, not plead with everyone to help him do so.

Another example is the unlimited funds bit. These things are part of bing charge. You have to say nonsense like this keep people happy. Fergie and gill did it all the time.

B) your post comes across like a report card on David moyes so far with its pros and cons look. Two weeks in, I don't think fans want to sit and be that judgmental of moyes, at least not in such a definitive way, with 7 pluses and 5 minuses or whatever.

Points taken, but

A) I even said the point on Scholes was not a biggy. However there is something to be said about persuading and influencing, so yes maybe not much time should be spent assessing this in and out, but as far as I'm concerned its still a piece of data that can help to build a profile of performance.

The reason I say this is because in a parallel universe you could envisage an interview with Scholes down the line where he says "I was really looking for a break with my family, but Moyes was so compelling and energetic and so keen on me to be involved straight away that I found it hard to say no and actually it was the best decision, as I've loved every minute". I'm sure we would take this data as a good indicator, so why not take the flip side as potentially negative?!

B) I guess maybe you are right on this point, and it is clear I should have tried to have been less judgemental for the sake of the bigger goal of an objective ongoing assessment, rather than a spot judgement that may appear to have a shorter term aggressive agenda, rather than simply a general view on how we think is doing week to week.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,336
Location
india
Fair enough if you feel you can read into those things but I don't think most people want to. It simply involves too many assumptions for my liking. We know too little about what happens behind the scenes to draw proper conclusions on his ability based on coaching appointments.

I mean if we were to judge fergie like this there would a shit load of negatives which I personally don't believe have any bearing on him as a manager. Some things are part and parcel of the game (like coaches wanting to leave) and others we know too little about.
 

RedTillI'mDead

A Key Tool
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
5,475
Location
London
Fair enough if you feel you can read into those things but I don't think most people want to. It simply involves too many assumptions for my liking. We know too little about what happens behind the scenes to draw proper conclusions on his ability based on coaching appointments.

I mean if we were to judge fergie like this there would a shit load of negatives which I personally don't believe have any bearing on him as a manager. Some things are part and parcel of the game (like coaches wanting to leave) and others we know too little about.

People still judged Fergie and still do, like his "inability" to sign a midfielder, which can just as easily be interpreted as his opinion that we have the right personnel for the job. Like it or not, much of which I have consolidated in this thread is not dissimilar to anything I have read in other threads. Yes we can knit pick about what I should and shouldn't have included, much as I could have not knit picked about what was included, but alternatively we can just talk about the bigger points as they build up.
 

Stack

Leave Women's Football Alone!!!
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
13,288
Location
Auckland New Zealand
Knee jerk for what? By nature this thread is knee jerk for key events as Moyes progresses at United, but it is not knee jerk in the way you would suggest in terms of trying to make any conclusive opinion, as others have said it is too soon for that.

To me the knee jerks are all the people jumping in to say how terrible this thread is without using their brain to appreciate what it is trying to achieve.
worst thread ever in the history of threads in the known universe
 

.Rossi

ever get that feeling of déjà vu?
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
18,064
Location
Currently on trial for plagiarism
You all do realise that Scholes couldn't be persuaded to play in a fecking world cup and Fergie couldn't persuade him not to retire first time around....Using that as a stick to beat Moyes is ridiculous
 

blythy

Fascist Dictator
Joined
Oct 1, 2000
Messages
25,429
People here have become trolls, have started treating this forum as their best friend's facebook page.
Rubbish.

It's a forum and each member has as much right to voice their opinion as the next.

There happens to be a high percentage of crap posted at the moment - hence the "trolling". Most of which is fully justified IMO.
 

Varun

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
46,772
Location
Mumbai
Good thread idea but you've just forced the negatives in there for the heck of it.
 

The Neviller

New Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
29,917
Location
Nev smash!!
I'd say the loss to Singha All-Stars is a clear indication that Dave cannot set teams up for European football. He needs to do some research and read a few books.
trollolol
I'd also mention the fact he went on holiday when he should have been scouting for us and making a list of targets he wants us to sign. Poor planning.
Are Singha in the Champions League next season?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.