Moyes So Far!

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JaapStam1986

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ITV are starting to go with it now as well.......just waiting on BBC and Sky Sports really to confirm it.
 

SteveJ

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The club would've been on this in an instant if there was nothing to it.
 

Shinjisan

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I think this has been the most embarrassing and pathetic thread I have ever read on Redcafe. The fact that this was started on July, 15th says it all.

In a way good that it will soon slide down the pages, and hopefully to never reappear.
 

Tomalonge

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I think this has been the most embarrassing and pathetic thread I have ever read on Redcafe. The fact that this was started on July, 15th says it all.

In a way good that it will soon slide down the pages, and hopefully to never reappear.
It'll be here just under the name of the new manager. Most people have made it abundantly clear that they'll only accept instant success and nothing else.
 

FujiVice

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Thread title might need to be changed. Maybe "Moyes As Far It Went" or something.
 

gormless

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I think this has been the most embarrassing and pathetic thread I have ever read on Redcafe. The fact that this was started on July, 15th says it all.

In a way good that it will soon slide down the pages, and hopefully to never reappear.
It was a way to keep tabs on how he was doing. We had a new manager for the first time in 25 years, you can't blame people for wanting to keep abreast of it all. Obviously when he turned out to be not very good at his job it went the way it did for a reason.
And if its the most embarrassing and pathetic thread you've read on here, it's probably because it coincides with the most embarrassing and pathetic period in our clubs history since Redcafe came into existence.
 

Ole90+3

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So as of the result yesterday, it is mathematically impossible for United to get 4th. News today that Moyes is getting the boot.

Chance that there is a clause in his contract that he must get top 4?
 

Kag

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It'll be here just under the name of the new manager. Most people have made it abundantly clear that they'll only accept instant success and nothing else.
That's a colossal lie. The vast majority of debate in regards to Moyes' gross inadequacies in this job has been structured and fair. So fair, infact, he's about to lose his job because most criticisms were actually completely correct. Nobody was expecting this.
 

Big Ben Foster

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So as of the result yesterday, it is mathematically impossible for United to get 4th. News today that Moyes is getting the boot.

Chance that there is a clause in his contract that he must get top 4?
There were probably a set of minimum targets in his contract, one of them being top 4. If so, now that it's mathematically impossible, United can sack him without paying full compensation.
 

Crackers

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I said I'd eat a shoe if he's fired by tonight, and I stand by that claim. I'll eat a hemp one, but I'll eat a shoe.
 

Tomalonge

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That's a colossal lie. The vast majority of debate in regards to Moyes' gross inadequacies in this job has been structured and fair. So fair, infact, he's about to lose his job because most criticisms were actually completely correct. Nobody was expecting this.
We'll see on that account, nothing I can say now but I fear well see the exact same,
 

Kag

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We'll see on that account, nothing I can say now but I fear well see the exact same,
Well hopefully the club doesn't try to act 'different' this time. An acceptance that we aren't some quirky, holy club above all else would be a good start. If we get in somebody with pedigree then we won't be having another season like this one. Yes, there will be criticisms along the way, but that's normal. There will also be praise. Even Sir Alex got stick throughout a season.
 

Revan

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I think this has been the most embarrassing and pathetic thread I have ever read on Redcafe. The fact that this was started on July, 15th says it all.

In a way good that it will soon slide down the pages, and hopefully to never reappear.
Nope. Just because people aren't stupid and can see obvious things for themselves doesn't make them embarrasing. It was clear from day one that Moyes is shit, and if those embarrasing people had their way we would have been in UCL next season.

It'll be here just under the name of the new manager. Most people have made it abundantly clear that they'll only accept instant success and nothing else.
Come on Tomalonge, give it up. It was clear to almost everyone that Moyes didn't have a plan or a clue what to do. No-one asked him to win us the title, but being the new old Stoke was too much to eat.
 

bosnian_red

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The chosen one indeed :lol:
Brilliant news. The guy was a disaster from the start, he couldn't have been worse if he tried. Thank feck the board saw some sense.
 

Tomalonge

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Well hopefully the club doesn't try to act 'different' this time. An acceptance that we aren't some quirky, holy club above all else would be a good start. If we get in somebody with pedigree then we won't be having another season like this one. Yes, there will be criticisms along the way, but that's normal. There will also be praise. Even Sir Alex got stick throughout a season.
SAF got stick for three seasons before the winning started. That's my fear, we might have passed on the opportunity of a good manager because the results weren't instant. If we get a higher class of manager next time I hope we show more patience. Good things normally do come to those who wait.

Saying that though, if it's not true I won't pretend I'm not a bit relieved. If he hasn't done the job this time next year then fair enough, but the last thing I'd want the club to do is put off a top, top manager because of the lack of patience we've shown with just a good one. Every manager we get deserves a fair crack.
 

Cheesy

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SAF got stick for three seasons before the winning started. That's my fear, we might have passed on the opportunity of a good manager because the results weren't instant. If we get a higher class of manager next time I hope we show more patience. Good things normally do come to those who wait.

Saying that though, if it's not true I won't pretend I'm not a bit relieved. If he hasn't done the job this time next year then fair enough, but the last thing I'd want the club to do is put off a top, top manager because of the lack of patience we've shown with just a good one. Every manager we get deserves a fair crack.
And he's had his crack of a season and not been good enough. If he'd done relatively poorly he could've earned another crack, but it's fair to say he's used up his cracks. "Good things normally do come to those who wait" is one of those things people use to defend him when they want to generalise and can't use anything about the man himself to defend his position. All the defences revolve around wider things, and nothing about Moyes himself because there is no way to defend his position here.
 

Tomalonge

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And he's had his crack of a season and not been good enough. If he'd done relatively poorly he could've earned another crack, but it's fair to say he's used up his cracks. "Good things normally do come to those who wait" is one of those things people use to defend him when they want to generalise and can't use anything about the man himself to defend his position. All the defences revolve around wider things, and nothing about Moyes himself because there is no way to defend his position here.
I think one season isn't enough for even top managers. My stance doesn't differ on just a good manager.

If the board has moved forward then fair enough, I've never claimed to know more than them.
 

Kag

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Nope. Just because people aren't stupid and can see obvious things for themselves doesn't make them embarrasing. It was clear from day one that Moyes is shit, and if those embarrasing people had their way we would have been in UCL next season.
Indeed. This is the reality of it all.
 

bosnian_red

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I think one season isn't enough for even top managers. My stance doesn't differ on just a good manager.

If the board has moved forward then fair enough, I've never claimed to know more than them.
You can't completely right off a season though. Sure it's good to show patience, and we've shown loads. Most would have sacked him by December, and then multiple times after that. We've given him a full year even after it seemed likely we won't make the champions league under him. There has to be a minimum with anyone and moyes has done far, far worse then anyone could have expected. It won't put off anyone. If anything, it proves our loyalty more but also shows we aren't complete idiots. The only thing that has changed as the season has gone on is we've been worse, so getting rid is the best option. He's just out of his depth, a decent manager but has no place being at this level. Going to Newcastle or a similar club would be his level.
 

MrMarcello

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SAF got stick for three seasons before the winning started. That's my fear, we might have passed on the opportunity of a good manager because the results weren't instant. If we get a higher class of manager next time I hope we show more patience. Good things normally do come to those who wait.

Saying that though, if it's not true I won't pretend I'm not a bit relieved. If he hasn't done the job this time next year then fair enough, but the last thing I'd want the club to do is put off a top, top manager because of the lack of patience we've shown with just a good one. Every manager we get deserves a fair crack.
A good manager wouldn't have fiddled about for nine months without installing a plan, not having an ounce of tactical knowledge, sucking up to one player while treating others as subordinates, not ridiculed the previous manager with petty squad comments, and the list goes on. The biggest failure is his inability to inspire his side. They quit on him months ago. He's not a winner and he changed how this set of players trained and performed. A top class manager may have changed the setup too but his ability to inspire, have a plan, and produce wouldn't have put off the players and inevitably lost the season.

The club is simply missing out on a manager not fit for the job. A manager fit for a club happy to avoid relegation with the odd European spot challenge. He can go manage Leeds or Fulham or whatever. Now the club can find a manager with a clue about modern tactics and training, and one that has a plan from the start.
 

Sir Matt

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SAF got stick for three seasons before the winning started. That's my fear, we might have passed on the opportunity of a good manager because the results weren't instant. If we get a higher class of manager next time I hope we show more patience. Good things normally do come to those who wait.

Saying that though, if it's not true I won't pretend I'm not a bit relieved. If he hasn't done the job this time next year then fair enough, but the last thing I'd want the club to do is put off a top, top manager because of the lack of patience we've shown with just a good one. Every manager we get deserves a fair crack.
The risk of a substantial, prolonged decline with Moyes at the helm is far greater than the risk of not getting a good replacement.

You're ignoring that Fergie's CV was infinitely better than Moyes' when he arrived, which got him more time. He also had a plan and implemented it, rather than just talking about it. iPads and a scouting bunker are fine but don't make up for his appalling performance managing the team.
 

OneUnited24

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A good manager wouldn't have fiddled about for nine months without instilling a plan, not having an ounce of tactical knowledge, sucking up to one player while treating others as subordinates, not ridiculed the previous manager with petty squad comments, and the list goes on. The club is simply missing out on a manager not fit for the job. A manager fit for a club happy to avoid relegation with the odd European spot challenge. He can go manager Leeds or Fulham or whatever. Now the club can find a manager with a clue about modern tactics and training, and one that has a plan from the start.
Spot on, for me had he shown some sort of game plan, initiative or tactical ability that made me confident of him building a new team or giving him more time. But after 9 months not any shred of one.

Sure we can say he would have paid off but i think its a far bigger risk hoping he would pay off then letting him build his team and potentially waste £200m
 

Livvie

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Spot on, for me had he shown some sort of game plan, initiative or tactical ability that made me confident of him building a new team or giving him more time. But after 9 months not any shred of one.
That sums it up really.

Losing games isn't the problem. It's the manner of the losing.
 

OneUnited24

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That sums it up really.

Losing games isn't the problem. It's the manner of the losing.
Sir Bobby Carlton once said "United never lose, they just run out of time" and under SAF those words were true to the word.

This season we've been lucky to walk away from defeats by 2 goal margins...
 

Sandikan

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can I retract my constant posts saying he would never be sacked before Christmas?

thanks.
 

Ash_G

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I really thought that he could do the job but for whatever reason it hasn't worked out and if this is the end, then I can understand that. The notion of giving someone time is fine and it's a good one but it can't be without stipulations. I don't think in any high profile job, or really any job that someone can completely not produce even adequate results and be allowed to continue until they get it right. At the end of the day you need to earn the time, not winning/really challenging for the title would have been one thing and something I personally would say would be reasonable given he's new to this level but falling so far to the point where we seemingly lose without a fight and aren't even really competing for 5th let alone CL/the title is just too far.

Sometimes things just don't work out, you can have the talent etc but sometimes something doesn't click and you just have to say it hasn't worked out.
 

Ixion

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I agree that there has been no sign at all of a plan or change and it looks like the players are so unmotivated to play for him it is better if we part company. The home defeats to City and Liverpool should have been the final straw, embarrasing defeats with no fight or any remotely positive signs, but we carried on and we got put in our place by Everton of all teams. The damage has gone too far.

The amazing thing is we haven't been that demanding, had we simply been fighting for 4th or showing some encouraging attacking football that would have been enough.
 

Tomalonge

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Spot on, for me had he shown some sort of game plan, initiative or tactical ability that made me confident of him building a new team or giving him more time. But after 9 months not any shred of one.

Sure we can say he would have paid off but i think its a far bigger risk hoping he would pay off then letting him build his team and potentially waste £200m
The risk of a substantial, prolonged decline with Moyes at the helm is far greater than the risk of not getting a good replacement.

You're ignoring that Fergie's CV was infinitely better than Moyes' when he arrived, which got him more time. He also had a plan and implemented it, rather than just talking about it. iPads and a scouting bunker are fine but don't make up for his appalling performance managing the team.
I get what you're both saying, honestly. I have taken it on board, and you'll just have to trust me when I say that I'm afraid my view differs..

I'm just not 100% sure he'll fail like you are, that's it really, the majority of my argument is that we don't know how good he may be in two-three years, apart from the message it sends out to other top, top managers that we have no patience as a club. I'd like to think we're different from the rest in that aspect. That's the main thing for me, not how David Moyes feels as a person.

If there are players refusing to play for him, I'd want them out too. I'm not picking one camp, I just want the best for my club!
 

entropy

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I get what you're both saying, honestly. I have taken it on board, and you'll just have to trust me when I say that I'm afraid my view differs..

I'm just not 100% sure he'll fail like you are, that's it really, the majority of my argument is that we don't know how good he may be in two-three years, apart from the message it sends out to other top, top managers that we have no patience as a club. I'd like to think we're different from the rest in that aspect. That's the main thing for me, not how David Moyes feels as a person.

If there are players refusing to play for him, I'd want them out too. I'm not picking one camp, I just want the best for my club!
This had me clinging onto Moyes and wanting to give him another season. We were willing to stick it out with Moyes but to sack him now just like city or chelsea makes everything the owners or fergie or gary neville or Woodward said in the past year utterly pointless.
 

OneUnited24

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I get what you're both saying, honestly. I have taken it on board, and you'll just have to trust me when I say that I'm afraid my view differs..

I'm just not 100% sure he'll fail like you are, that's it really, the majority of my argument is that we don't know how good he may be in two-three years, apart from the message it sends out to other top, top managers that we have no patience as a club. I'd like to think we're different from the rest in that aspect. That's the main thing for me, not how David Moyes feels as a person.

If there are players refusing to play for him, I'd want them out too. I'm not picking one camp, I just want the best for my club!
I dont think that is a problem, all will see how we stuck with him for a full season even after the bad got worse, rather than following the rest of europe and kicking him out of the door mid-season. That in my opinion is enough to show that we do give managers time but expect them to perform. Lets be frank here Moyes record has been poor and i refuse to believe any top manager would have trouble bettering it (ie performing better not making a bad record worse).

Honestly i've always liked how United have placed more importance on managers than players, i think it was the backbone of SAF success - no one would dare step out of line as they knew what was what. But again it goes back to my point that he has to have shown, by now, how good a manager he is.

Maybe thats where we differ, when he first took over i was optimistic but as the months dragged on and his inability to try and manage the team but instead go for pot-shots at the squad and its lack of quality for me just questioned his credentials to manage here. I am not expecting SAF mark 2 but something that made me hopeful on the future. And i cant rest on "if SAF liked him we must stick by him"
 

Ixion

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This had me clinging onto Moyes and wanting to give him another season. We were willing to stick it out with Moyes but to sack him now just like city or chelsea makes everything the owners or fergie or gary neville or Woodward said in the past year utterly pointless.
But if a new manager took Chelsea, City, Barca, Real, Bayern, PSG etc. down to 7th none of us would be surprised at their sacking, this isn't Di Matteo winning the Champions League and then getting sacked. This is failing by all reasonable standards that every other club out there is wondering why he hasn't been sacked sooner. Sticking with him proves nothing, its to the detriment of the club.
 
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