Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone?

[skeeta]

O'Neill gelling a team full of 30 year old british and scandinavian average player doesn't place him a top guy for the job.

You are telling that O'Neill can train players like rooney, and ronaldo to reach the elitism of world football ( the potential warrrant this), on a par with Ronaldinho, can he feck

O'Neill's track record is a good stint at Leicester (on a par with Dowie's performance at Palace and behind Redknapp's records with West Ham, Portsmouth and potentially Southampton) and a decent record in SPL which is not the most competitive league in the world, which was achieved at the time that Rangers financial restraints started biting harder than ever before. And please don't compare what O'Neill is doing with one of the SPL big two to SAF's achievements in taking a provincial club from no where to the most successful team in Scotland.

And Moyes has had a hell of a rollercoaster ride at Everton. Remember they came incredibly close to relegation last year.

Whilst Chelsea go out and hire the manager that has just won the European Cup, are you seriously suggesting that our ambitions are to employ a young manager with potential over a successful manager with a history of achievements and european pedigree?

The game and our club have moved on considerably since we were hiring the likes of Sexton, Atkinson and even SAF.

 

[Davo]

You are telling that O'Neill can train players like rooney, and ronaldo to reach the elitism of world football ( the potential warrrant this), on a par with Ronaldinho, can he feck

How the feck do you know?

 

[VanNistelrater]

Are you having a laugh? How many 'top' clubs did Fergie manage before United...St. Mirren?...pissed millions on shite players - all managers do that, his record is as good as anyones. He turned some write-off's into match winners for his sides - Hartson and Sutton being two examples that you've kindly provided., although the context in which you've used them doesn't do you any favours, seeing as you were trying to point out the opposite. As for you saying he's not a top line manager....

I did account for that though. I know Ferguson only managed a few top clubs, but compare the situation we were in then to the one now. We were in a pretty dire position under Ron, there was a drinking problem and we hadnt won the league for 20 odd years.

Now we're one of the biggest clubs in Europe, the biggest in England, and the next bloke has got to follow on from one of the greatest Football managers to have graced the Earth. O'Neil has no real experience of top level English Football.

re: shite Football, plenty of managers have spent less and got their players playing decent Football. Look at Mourinho at Porto for example, took them to the CL title spending very little and in a league that isnt that much more attractive than the Scottish league.

I dont think O'Neils a shite manager by any means, but he's over-rated...he's usually the O'Irishs pick, or those with Celtic leanings.

 

[Keane16]

O'Neill's track record is a good stint at Leicester (on a par with Dowie's performance at Palace and behind Redknapp's records with West Ham, Portsmouth and potentially Southampton) and a decent record in SPL which is not the most competitive league in the world, which was achieved at the time that Rangers financial restraints started biting harder than ever before.

I think you'll find it's a bit better than that, and don't forget Wycombe.

And please don't compare what O'Neill is doing with one of the SPL big two to SAF's achievements in taking a provincial club from no where to the most successful team in Scotland.

But it's a shite league......

The game and our club have moved on considerably since we were hiring the likes of Sexton, Atkinson and even SAF.

Which is why we're unlikely to hire any of them.

 

[French Henry]

Paul Le Guen is the best young manager in the world IMO. I love watching Lyon play; quick, attacking, fluid football that's effective too. Looks like making it 4 Ligue 1 titles in a row.

Guus Hiddink who took South Korea to the world cup semi-finals. Won a European Cup with PSV, another one with Madrid and is now back in the semi-finals with Eindhoven. And he's hardly had a penny to spend.

Both better bets than Moyes or O'Neil IMO.

 

[VanNistelrater]

Since we're banding names about...

I like the Football Riijkard is getting Barca to play, and his general handling of the whole Mourinho thing.

 

[VanNistelrater]

Paul Le Guen is the best young manager in the world IMO. I love watching Lyon play; quick, attacking, fluid football that's effective too. Looks like making it 4 Ligue 1 titles in a row.

Guus Hiddink who took South Korea to the world cup semi-finals. Won a European Cup with PSV, another one with Madrid and is now back in the semi-finals with Eindhoven. And he's hardly had a penny to spend.

Both better bets than Moyes or O'Neil IMO.

We're Manchester United. I dont want my team pumped full of Frenchies like Benitez is doing with dodgy Spaniards at Liverpool, whilst he learns the tricks of the trade in the Premiership.

United fans are some of the least patient fans you will come across, trust me, theres not a chance any of them would like to hang around a year or two whilst Le Guen comes to terms with the Premierleague.

Good manager though, no doubt. I just want our teams to have a British, preferably home grown, core to them, I know you dont like that much over at the Library...

 

[Keane16]

Since we're banding names about...

I like the Football Riijkard is getting Barca to play, and his general handling of the whole Mourinho thing.

He lied about it, just like Mourinho.

 

[French Henry]

We're Manchester United. I dont want my team pumped full of Frenchies like Benitez is doing with dodgy Spaniards at Liverpool, whilst he learns the tricks of the trade in the Premiership.

United fans are some of the least patient fans you will come across, trust me, theres not a chance any of them would like to hang around a year or two whilst Le Guen comes to terms with the Premierleague.

Good manager though, no doubt. I just want our teams to have a British, preferably home grown, core to them, I know you dont like that much over at the Library...

With the Neville(s), Giggs, Keane (Irish, but the same mentality) and Scholes retiring in the next few years you'll have to shell out over the odds to keep your beloved British core.

Especially as most of the young players you lot seem to be hyping up are Italian, American, Spanish and wherever Ngalula is from.

 

[Keane16]

I did account for that though. I know Ferguson only managed a few top clubs, but compare the situation we were in then to the one now. We were in a pretty dire position under Ron, there was a drinking problem and we hadnt won the league for 20 odd years.

there was less pressure you mean....can't agree with that.

Now we're one of the biggest clubs in Europe, the biggest in England, and the next bloke has got to follow on from one of the greatest Football managers to have graced the Earth. O'Neil has no real experience of top level English Football.

Yes he has, plenty. Europe too.

re: shite Football, plenty of managers have spent less and got their players playing decent Football. Look at Mourinho at Porto for example, took them to the CL title spending very little and in a league that isnt that much more attractive than the Scottish league.

Attractive?, I'd say it was a lot more attractive, and a hell of a lot more competitive than Scotland.

 

[VanNistelrater]

With the Neville(s), Giggs, Keane (Irish, but the same mentality) and Scholes retiring in the next few years you'll have to shell out over the odds to keep your beloved British core.

Especially as most of the young players you lot seem to be hyping up are Italian, American, Spanish and wherever Ngalula is from.

Homegrown talent is key. Preferably English/British, it's what we're all about. Obviously you wouldnt know much about it over there.

Heaven knows its been said alot since 93, but id say this was the best crop we've had for a good 10 years or so, lots of effort poured into it, Ferguson regularly attends games, knows the players names, often in dialogue with the coaches etc., thats what i want the next boss to be like.

For your information, Jones, Blake, Howard, Heaton, Eckersly, Bardsley, Ritchie Jones to name a few, are some of the best young players we have and all are English. We have a nice blend of English gritt and superior foreign technical ability. Hopefully a few will make the step up in the next year or so, so we can atleast put them on to the fringes of the first team.

We still have some tradition left you know, we'll always be a British club, you used to be once....remember that?

 

[VanNistelrater]

there was less pressure you mean....can't agree with that.



Yes he has, plenty. Europe too.



Attractive?, I'd say it was a lot more attractive, and a hell of a lot more competitive than Scotland.

But Ferguson has taken us to the very top level, competing for the league, expecting in Europe, 8 titles won in the last 10 years, thats an incredible record to follow. And with all the aura and legend that surrounds Ferguson, whoever takes over is going to have to have a decent CV in English or European Football, not...'once managed a decentish Leicester side and won a few titles in Scotland whilst competing with a piss poor Rangers side'.

Riijkard may be foreign but atleast he has the right Footballing philosophies, not that I advocate us really moving for him.

O'Neil is the paddies choice, no doubt.

 

[French Henry]

We still have some tradition left you know, we'll always be a British club, you used to be once....remember that?

Vaguely.

It was around the time that you were an attacking team that were good to watch, wasn't it?

 

[Keane16]

But Ferguson has taken us to the very top level, competing for the league, expecting in Europe, 8 titles won in the last 10 years, thats an incredible record to follow. And with all the aura and legend that surrounds Ferguson, whoever takes over is going to have to have a decent CV in English or European Football.... .

Your stats are wrong, but that an aside.....are you saying there is less pressure now than in 1986?....because of the manager we've had since then? Are you predicting a Busby-like situation developing? I could see that as well - with Queiroz or LeGuen, but not with O'Neill. He's different to them and similar to Ferguson, he'll impose himself from day one.

not...'once managed a decentish Leicester side and won a few titles in Scotland whilst competing with a piss poor Rangers side'..

or brought Wycombe in the League and then promoted again, turn relegation fodder into Premiership staples (only to have them fall apart when he left) and broke the Rangers domination in Scotland...throw in a UEFA Cup Final as well, proceed to domination in Scotland. Poor league maybe, but you can't do any better than winning it year after year.

O'Neil is the paddies choice, no doubt.

Not necessarily, and so what if he was?

 

[VanNistelrater]

Vaguely.

It was around the time that you were an attacking team that were good to watch, wasn't it?

What, two months ago when we pissed all over you at Highbury?

Nah, you abandoned your tradition and roots long before that.

What would Adams and co think of the spineless puffs noncing around the Library these days, I dont know...

 

[VanNistelrater]

Your stats are wrong, but that an aside.....are you saying there is less pressure now than in 1986?....because of the manager we've had since then? Are you predicting a Busby-like situation developing? I could see that as well - with Queiroz or LeGuen, but not with O'Neill. He's different to them and similar to Ferguson, he'll impose himself from day one.



or brought Wycombe in the League and then promoted again, turn relegation fodder into Premiership staples (only to have them fall apart when he left) and broke the Rangers domination in Scotland...throw in a UEFA Cup Final as well, proceed to domination in Scotland. Poor league maybe, but you can't do any better than winning it year after year.



Not necessarily, and so what if he was?

I suppose it's all opinion. I personally dont think he's geared to managing such a huge club like United, he's never even gone near a club of such stature. We were in a 50x worse position when Fergie took over than we are now. We had had Doherty, Atkinson, Sexton, McGuiness (bless him), all pretty much made an absolute hash of the job, whilst O'Neil would be taking over from one of the best managers to have graced the game...

I just think that at this stage of O'Neils career, the job is too big for him, the expectations are too big for him.

 

[Keane16]

I suppose it's all opinion. I personally dont think he's geared to managing such a huge club like United, he's never even gone near a club of such stature. We were in a 50x worse position when Fergie took over than we are now. We had had Doherty, Atkinson, Sexton, McGuiness (bless him), all pretty much made an absolute hash of the job, whilst O'Neil would be taking over from one of the best managers to have graced the game...

I just think that at this stage of O'Neils career, the job is too big for him, the expectations are too big for him.

Nah, he's made for it.

 

[giggzy]

re: shite Football, plenty of managers have spent less and got their players playing decent Football. Look at Mourinho at Porto for example, took them to the CL title spending very little and in a league that isnt that much more attractive than the Scottish league.

Right........... lets see, Porto.

Let me think.... Maniche, Ferreira, McCarthy, Deco, Calvalho, Andrade...etc they've now got Postiga and Quaresma. Can you honestly say, Scottish football has that type of talent.......or can even attract that type of talent?

Can just imagine Brazilians thinking.... were would I prefer to go, Scotland or Portugal. Hmm that's a tough one...

They've got a huge advantage over Scottish clubs. Their national team both seniors and youth are quality sides. Compare that to tripe the Scots have to choose from.

I still don't understand how people can say MON can't manage United. Based on what exactly? He's done well where ever he's gone........that says something.

 

[VanNistelrater]

None of those players you mentioned were ever top draw Footballers before they joined Porto though. To an extent they flourished under Mourinho, no one had ever heard of them 2 years ago.

The Portugease league is dwarfed by the Spanish league like the Scottish league is dwarfed by the Premiership. I accept that it is more attractive than Scotland, like I said, but not that much more, it's still almost exactly the same in terms of what it can offer a player, i.e limited league competition, thats why, like Scotland, as soon as any player comes half decent they feck off.

How many clubs of Uniteds stature, or even nearing Uniteds stature, and expectations has O'Neil managed? That's the only question I ask. Im willing to be swayed on the issue, I dont hate the bloke, but I cant see how he's 'made for it' just because he's 'a fecking winner'.

I point to Hartson and Sutton, again, by the way...all Celtic ever do when I've seen them play is lump it up to them, regardless of money, thats clearly O'Neils Footballing principle, he did the same at Leicester with Heskey, do we want it at OT? If he's worked all his career with shite players, whats he going to be like managing world class players, in their prime with as many cars as sperm.

 

[giggzy]

None of those players you mentioned were ever top draw Footballers before they joined Porto though. To an extent they flourished under Mourinho, no one had ever heard of them 2 years ago.
.

They had talent..........and he exploited it. Like I said Portugal's had a couple of decent generations of footballers, whereas Scotland has had the worst crop of players ever. As for attraction, there's no chance a young and upcoming South Americans for example would chose Scotland, they'd probably consider Portugal, well Deco certainly did.

Personally, I dont have an idea to who should be our next manager.......however I'd like him to be fairly young, and full of ideas(, Benitez, Ancelotti etc type). Not a manager who's done it at the top and is fairly long in the tooth. Managers like Lippi, Saachi, Trappatoni weren't anyway near as successful with their new clubs, so there's no guarentee that coaches that have been successfull in the past, will automatically produce the goods. The only one I can think of his Hitzfeld who produced two top quality European sides in Dortmund and Bayern.....both at his peak. Heard Capello's name banded about n'all, but aside from his class Milan side, he's not recaptured the same magic on the big European stage, has he.

 

[VanNistelrater]

I read somewhere that Hitzfeld completely lost control of discipline at Bayern, which put me off.

Anyone saying Benitez or even mentioning him should be shot, Scousers loom in this thread you know!

 

[Davo]

United fans are some of the least patient fans you will come across,

Oh I dunno

You stuck with Ferguson for ages....well, apart from the booing and chanting for him to be sacked that is...

 

[VanNistelrater]

Exactly. But then all Football fans are impatient I suppose, feck Off Houllier We Hope You Die of Aids, of course...

 

[Davo]

That was one or two bellends...not the majority of fans in a stadium

Who do you want to replace him?

 

[VanNistelrater]

And then there was the booing that accompanied more or less every half and full time whistle at the middle and towards the end of the Houllier regime.

Football fans are like that I guess.

I dont know who I want to replace him, I cant really begin to comprehend United without Fergie, he's such an incredible manager, but it's got to come one day I guess...

At the moment id say Mourinho would be preferable, I like Le Guen but he'd take time to settle as I said, and I dont strictly 100% hate the idea of O'Neil, I just have to play devils advocat when his name pops up because I have a few doubts about him.

 

[Davo]

Nonsense...so unlike you. Still not sure what you're basing your comments re lack of patience from your fans on....

Can't see Mourinho leaving Chelsea. He's got the best team in the country, the highest salary in world football and loads of cash behind him. Dunno anything about Le Guen....

How about the usual brought up candidates of McClaren / the Portoguese bloke who flopped at Real or someone like Bruce?

 

[VanNistelrater]

Not nonsence at all, your fans booed your team off plenty of times, infact I remember a big banner unveiled before the Newcastle FA Cup game last season.

Well when it comes avaliable it'll be the biggest job in world Football, so you never know, I suppose it's more in hope than expectation regarding Mourinho.

Le Guens got Lyon playing some good stuff but as I explained, I dont like the prospect of a team plugged full of Frenchies.

Cant really judge Quieroz because he didnt make any of the decisions at Madrid, but Ive heard varying reports on player attitudes to him.

Who knows, hopefully its a while off yet though, at the moment Id not want anyone else in charge than Ferguson, not to say he's perfect, but for him to leave at this stage would be riddiculous.

 

[Reflectorboy]

best person is mourinho but like SAF said,he is just a coach but a world class one
a manager like SAF is very rare indeed,how many managers want to look after the youth team,reserve team,manage transfers,manage the first team(in essense running the club from up to down)...

 

[Davo]

Plenty of times my arse....it's gone from "more or less everytime half/full time whistle from the middle of his regime" to "plenty"...another 10 posts or so and you might get somewhere close....nevermind, your lies will help change the fact that your fans wanted Ferguson out.......

Whoever you get is likely to increase the amount of foreign players in your side...it's happening throughout the league....and as someone pointed out, a fair few of your "Brits" are approaching the latter stages of their careers...chances are they'll be replaced by cheaper foreign players

What else can you judge Queroz on re management, other than his failure at Real?

I reckon you've got one or two more years with him at the helm....and I reckon O'Neill's probably waiting for such a position in England...and that he'll probably get it.

 

[giggzy]

I never wanted Fergie out....................that said I never wanted Big Ron out either.

Mourhino? no chance. I reckon Le Guens, the flavour of the month, just like Deschamps was last year. Had he won the European Cup.....I bet he would've been managing Chelsea right now. Funny how things pan out.

I don't want Carlos........and I'd love an ex-United player to manage the club. But Sparky and Bruce are still finding their feet...........and I just can't see Robbo at the helm.

It's gonna be a tough choice, and there aren't that many candidates that stand out.......Heard Giddink's name been banded about n'all, and you have to say he's got a good record..but failed miserably at a Real, a big club. So I dunno.........

 

[skeeta]

Queiroz is an excellent tactician, a modern thinker and he's very popular with the players, He also speaks five languages to boot.

In Carlos Queiroz, United have a ready-made successor, a man who has the experience of managing Portugal and South Africa, as well as an uncomfortable year in charge of Real Madrid.

The fact that Queiroz only lasted a year at the Bernabeu Stadium worried some United fans.

It shouldn't - being manager there is more about being a politician and a personnel manager than a football boss. In March 2004, Real madrid were on the path to capturing a treble, for the first time in their history, with Queiroz at the helm

Queiroz, if appointed, would be a drastic change from Fergie's fiery style, but a good one

 

[skeeta]

I never wanted Fergie out....................that said I never wanted Big Ron out either.

Mourhino? no chance. I reckon Le Guens, the flavour of the month, just like Deschamps was last year. Had he won the European Cup.....I bet he would've been managing Chelsea right now. Funny how things pan out.

I don't want Carlos........and I'd love an ex-United player to manage the club. But Sparky and Bruce are still finding their feet...........and I just can't see Robbo at the helm.

It's gonna be a tough choice, and there aren't that many candidates that stand out.......Heard Giddink's name been banded about n'all, and you have to say he's got a good record..but failed miserably at a Real, a big club. So I dunno.........

You want a manager because prior affiliations with the club (sentimental value), rather than a manager with the right creditals, to will guide talents like wayne and cristiano. Queiroz develop Portugal goldern era, he the man for the job

 

[skeeta]

Queiroz Head Hunted

His pedigree is unbelievable and anyone who Figo calls "my mentor and tutor" will do for me.

The United boss took almost a year to identify Queiroz as the successor to Steve McClaren

Then he was poached by Real Madrid, who recognized his talents

Then Fergie can not wait to get him back to Manchester.

For fergie to spent a year tracking a top coach, then is wanted by another elite club, then immediately be taken back by Fergie says something.

You dont get hired by the elite powers of world football, if you are not something special.

O'Neill,Moyes,Bruce, Hughes and whoever else dont carry anywhere near the creditials of Queiroz

our aims and objectives werent set as high as they are now days.
We need a manger who knows what it takes to manage a big club and being able to handle supstars like rooney,ruud rio etc, martin o neil imo doesnt at this point in time

Queiroz, has experiences of the biggest egos in world football, the british candidates on the other hand...don't

Fergie listens to the whispers of new talent in the football world and as with Carlos Queiroz

Fergie said: "Maybe Carlos is something of an unknown quantity to a lot of people, but he is not to me or many others whose business it is to know what is happening in world football."

As for the man? He's worked his magic in Portugal - where he coached the youngsters to two World under-20 Youth Championships in succession in 1989 and 91 and bought on the likes of Joao Pinto, Figo, Rui Bento and Rui Costa as well as being boss of Sporting Lisbon (several times)

Queiroz being appointed could be a positive turning point even, for its repercussions could change the way those within the club view our whole footballing ethos. And his own outlook on the game

Queiroz Thinking On Being Victorious:

"You concentrate on mental, technical and tactical strengths of your teams and match them against your opponents’ weaknesses to emerge victorious...It would be useless today to have players who dribble all over the place and please the crowd but contribute nothing. At the end of the day, the team loses. Results are the name of the game, and goals get results." Perhaps Rooney wasn't United's only world class signing of the summer.

 

[Keane16]

Don't talk daft.

O'Neill's credentials are every bit as good (by that I mean better), than Carlos'.

 

[skeeta]

Don't talk daft.

O'Neill's credentials are every bit as good (by that I mean better), than Carlos'.

Why wasn't O'neill appointed as manager of Real Madrid, then

Queiroz football intelligence far outweighs those of mairtin

 

[skeeta]

Don't talk daft.

O'Neill's credentials are every bit as good (by that I mean better), than Carlos'.

Personally, I don't want a manager that employs the Heskeys, Suttons and Hartsons of this world so that we can play long balls forward for them to knock down. We're United, not fookin Wimbledon!

Don't believe all the hype, if O'Neill was that good, he would have been approached by a big club a long time ago! Fook me, even the scousers didn't sound him out when Houllier left.

O'Neill knew how to keep a poor team in the Premiership by playing long ball tactics and spoilers (in the form of Savage and Lennon) in the middle of the park. In a very poor scottish league, he has employed the same long ball game!

We are supposed to be one of the biggest clubs in europe. We should be able to attract one of the top managers in europe. O'Neill is a good manager in a small time club or a small time league.

He's not experienced enough for us!

Are you prepared to gamble all the hardwork that Fergie has put into developing this club over the last 2 decades, because I'm not?

 

[Keane16]

Why wasn't O'neill appointed as manager of Real Madrid, then

What kind of a question is that?

Why wasn't he appointed manager of Spurs, or Liverpool, or Newcastle, or Chelsea, or Barcelona, or Bayern Munich, or Rangers?

Queiroz football intelligence far outweighs those of mairtin

On what are you basing that?

 

[Keane16]

Personally, I don't want a manager that employs the Heskeys, Suttons and Hartsons of this world so that we can play long balls forward for them to knock down. We're United, not fookin Wimbledon!

Don't believe all the hype, if O'Neill was that good, he would have been approached by a big club a long time ago! Fook me, even the scousers didn't sound him out when Houllier left.

O'Neill knew how to keep a poor team in the Premiership by playing long ball tactics and spoilers (in the form of Savage and Lennon) in the middle of the park. In a very poor scottish league, he has employed the same long ball game!

We are supposed to be one of the biggest clubs in europe. We should be able to attract one of the top managers in europe. O'Neill is a good manager in a small time club or a small time league.

He's not experienced enough for us!

Sounds like you're the one believing the 'hype' as it were....

Are you prepared to gamble all the hardwork that Fergie has put into developing this club over the last 2 decades, because I'm not?

You have a very wierd way of looking at this. Any new manager will change how Fergie did things - fact. That's not gambling, that's a certainty. Worst we could try to do is to try and get some insider who tries to keep everything as it is, with Fergie bending his ear. O'Neill would stamp his authority on the place from day one.

 

[skeeta]

What kind of a question is that?

Why wasn't he appointed manager of Spurs, or Liverpool, or Newcastle, or Chelsea, or Barcelona, or Bayern Munich, or Rangers?



On what are you basing that?

O'Neill, was overlooked by,
Spurs
Newcastle
Liverpool
Man City?

Why? Ask yourself that?

If he was overlooked by all these clubs, why would united sign him up?

I based thoughts on football intelligence, on listening to both O'neill and Queiroz thoughts overthe last 3 years, and the fact thatQueiroz was head hunted by two of the biggest footballing giants in world football.

 

[Keane16]

O'Neill, was overlooked by,
Spurs
Newcastle
Liverpool
Man City?

Why? Ask yourself that?

If he was overlooked by all these clubs, why would united sign him up?

I think you'll find he wasn't even remotely interested in that shower of shite, not the other way around.