MPs call for Uber to be stripped of its London licence

Nick 0208 Ldn

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It's great watching Sadiq Khan squirm here. Who does he value more, his union paymasters or the voters who will ditch him over this?

I also don't entirely buy the argument that the fully trackable Uber is any less safe than the extortionate black cabs that refuse to stop after dark or the money laundering mini cab firms.
The existence of an app is neither here nor there if the Met are concerned about the company's reporting practices or background checks. Particularly with a provider of this size, any city ought to uphold a minimum requirement for the sake of standards and safety. How they all compete after that is up to them.
 
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11101

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The existence of an app is neither here nor there if the Met are concerned about the company's reporting practices or background checks. Particularly with a provider of this size, any city ought to uphold a minimum requirement for the sake of standards and safety. How they all compete after that is up to them.
I'm not sure i believe Uber are being held to the same standards as others though. Firstly Uber has passed many of these tests before, so what's changed? Secondly, anyone who has ever ridden with other London private hire firms will know how questionable their drivers often are.
 

11101

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No they are mini cab firm with a sophisticated dispatch method, they are not a technology firm
They facilitate the mini cab industry with their technology, but they own no cars and are not restricted to just the taxi industry. Just as deliveroo is not a restaurant and ebay is (was) not a retailer. It's an ongoing debate as regulators try to classify them as a taxi firm but they describe themselves as a technology firm only.
 

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They facilitate the mini cab industry with their technology, but they own no cars and are not restricted to just the taxi industry. Just as deliveroo is not a restaurant and ebay is (was) not a retailer. It's an ongoing debate as regulators try to classify them as a taxi firm but they describe themselves as a technology firm only.
They are two companies when they operate in London. A Dutch shell company that takes your payments, runs the app, connects you with a driver, etc.

And a UK based company which is literally just a minicab provider - that only takes bookings from the above company through the app. That minicab provider has had its license revoked for its failings.

If Uber didn’t operate as a minicab provider in London there would be no legal way for it to take bookings. Uber are a toxic business because they want to win by undercutting but they want to fund that undercutting by eroding worker’s rights and evading expensive regulation (like checking the safety of your vehicles and drivers).
 

Mozza

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They facilitate the mini cab industry with their technology, but they own no cars and are not restricted to just the taxi industry. Just as deliveroo is not a restaurant and ebay is (was) not a retailer. It's an ongoing debate as regulators try to classify them as a taxi firm but they describe themselves as a technology firm only.
They've found other niches for thier dispatch method but they are still a mini cab firm.

They also describe themselves as responsible then hid allegations of assault from the police, so lost their lisence
 

FlawlessThaw

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Any alternatives to Uber apart from Black cabs?
In London? Yeah there's Bolt which I've used a few times. And another company called Kapten but I've never used that.

Anyway I don't think we will see Uber go just yet. They are still operating pending appeal and I'm sure some agreement will be worked out.
 

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Pretty glad they lost their licence, Taxi drivers spend thousands to become one, Taxi's are not cheap (looking at 60k ish for a mk4) and learning the Knowledge takes years and incredible skill, i was lucky enough to help train my mate (by which, sit in the car with him and testing him as we drove throughout london in our early 20 somethings) to able to reel off every single street name from point A to Point F is fascinating, not just that... they have great knowledge on the local places i.e bars/clubs/off the beaten path shops/cafes etc, i doubt your average joe of a uber driver is going to know all that.
 

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Pretty glad they lost their licence, Taxi drivers spend thousands to become one, Taxi's are not cheap (looking at 60k ish for a mk4) and learning the Knowledge takes years and incredible skill, i was lucky enough to help train my mate (by which, sit in the car with him and testing him as we drove throughout london in our early 20 somethings) to able to reel off every single street name from point A to Point F is fascinating, not just that... they have great knowledge on the local places i.e bars/clubs/off the beaten path shops/cafes etc, i doubt your average joe of a uber driver is going to know all that.
It sucks for original taxi drivers, but Uber (and many other similar apps) has created a lot, much bigger employment pool and helps the economy. If you banned UBER in lieu of Taxi Drivers you'll be hurting the economy on the grander scheme in favor of a small pool of drivers.

In my country everything is run under Go-jek (Local uber) where people can order foods, send couriers, drives you around, comes to your house and cleans your house, gives you discount on foods etc. It really helps the economy in recession times.
 

golden_blunder

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I had my first ever Uber experience in Manchester at the weekend. We got a black taxi from the airport to Cheetham hill area and it cost £40. An Uber going back from the Hilton at Deansgate cost just over £20. The car was spotless, the driver was a Moroccan fella with perfect English, very knowledgeable and a United fan. Brilliant experience. Would use it again
 
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Sara125

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Pretty glad they lost their licence, Taxi drivers spend thousands to become one, Taxi's are not cheap (looking at 60k ish for a mk4) and learning the Knowledge takes years and incredible skill, i was lucky enough to help train my mate (by which, sit in the car with him and testing him as we drove throughout london in our early 20 somethings) to able to reel off every single street name from point A to Point F is fascinating, not just that... they have great knowledge on the local places i.e bars/clubs/off the beaten path shops/cafes etc, i doubt your average joe of a uber driver is going to know all that.
Yeah but for a lot of people it’s simply about getting from point A to B for a cheaper price, and if that’s what Uber offers even with the driver not having as much the knowledge about London’s night life etc. as black cabs, then so be it. Also, take into consideration services like Uber Eats which is very convenient for situations such as people who have been working long hours and are too tired to cook once they get home.
 

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It sucks for original taxi drivers, but Uber (and many other similar apps) has created a lot, much bigger employment pool and helps the economy. If you banned UBER in lieu of Taxi Drivers you'll be hurting the economy on the grander scheme in favor of a small pool of drivers.

In my country everything is run under Go-jek (Local uber) where people can order foods, send couriers, drives you around, comes to your house and cleans your house, gives you discount on foods etc. It really helps the economy in recession times.
The taxi industry needs more self regulation. Uber can at least be held accountable through their rating system. I have on multiple occasions been in taxis with racist drivers which fortunately wasn't directed at me. Moreover, uber's pay before you ride system ensures the ride is paid for, no getting fleeced or no need to have cash. I hope taxi companies change their model to mirror uber's but with fairer requirements for their drivers.
 

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Pretty glad they lost their licence, Taxi drivers spend thousands to become one, Taxi's are not cheap (looking at 60k ish for a mk4) and learning the Knowledge takes years and incredible skill, i was lucky enough to help train my mate (by which, sit in the car with him and testing him as we drove throughout london in our early 20 somethings) to able to reel off every single street name from point A to Point F is fascinating, not just that... they have great knowledge on the local places i.e bars/clubs/off the beaten path shops/cafes etc, i doubt your average joe of a uber driver is going to know all that.
I understand your point but I have to disagree. Black cabs can't have a monopoly on the taxi business, it's not healthy. The part about knowledge doesn't sit well with me. The average Joe might not be able to call the name of a street off his head but a guy with a phone can get to the same place in just as quick the time. It sucks for Black Cab drivers but you have to move on. As long as Uber and co are well regulated, I don't see the problem. I even encourage it.
 
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Ultimate Grib

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Pretty glad they lost their licence, Taxi drivers spend thousands to become one, Taxi's are not cheap (looking at 60k ish for a mk4) and learning the Knowledge takes years and incredible skill, i was lucky enough to help train my mate (by which, sit in the car with him and testing him as we drove throughout london in our early 20 somethings) to able to reel off every single street name from point A to Point F is fascinating, not just that... they have great knowledge on the local places i.e bars/clubs/off the beaten path shops/cafes etc, i doubt your average joe of a uber driver is going to know all that.
I have to laugh everytime I see someone cite knowledge as the reason for having black cabs like we're in the 20th century still. They're overly expensive and only useful late at night if you're happen to be going the same way as the driver with cash in your hand. They're obsolete like many other professions nowadays and the sooner the black cabbies realise it and move with the times, the better.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Letting the concept of Black Cab drivers creep into a discussion about Uber being a disgusting company is daft.

I don’t know anyone advocating for the protection of London Black Cabs with any conviction.

Uber should ensure their drivers are known to them, and their passengers. Those drivers should have a drivers license, a work visa, no relevant/important criminal Conviction, and insurance on the vehicle that they’re driving.

It’s that simple.
 

Offside

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Pretty glad they lost their licence, Taxi drivers spend thousands to become one, Taxi's are not cheap (looking at 60k ish for a mk4) and learning the Knowledge takes years and incredible skill, i was lucky enough to help train my mate (by which, sit in the car with him and testing him as we drove throughout london in our early 20 somethings) to able to reel off every single street name from point A to Point F is fascinating, not just that... they have great knowledge on the local places i.e bars/clubs/off the beaten path shops/cafes etc, i doubt your average joe of a uber driver is going to know all that.
Agreed one good thing about black cabs are proper drivers. Does get frustrating watching an uber driver feck about with a sat nav and even ask the passenger for directions sometimes.
 

Sky1981

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The taxi industry needs more self regulation. Uber can at least be held accountable through their rating system. I have on multiple occasions been in taxis with racist drivers which fortunately wasn't directed at me. Moreover, uber's pay before you ride system ensures the ride is paid for, no getting fleeced or no need to have cash. I hope taxi companies change their model to mirror uber's but with fairer requirements for their drivers.
I dont feel so bad about taxi driver. They can drive. An a car is cheaper to obtain than a taxi license. They wont lose their job. Just a change of job.
 

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I’ve just read a well-written blog about the situation (link below). The writer basically explains how TFL are only doing this to protect black cabs, under the guise of being concerned for Uber customers’ safety. She mentions that Uber drivers actually go through enhanced background checks and once they pass and have a valid private hire license...which is given to them by TFL
themselves.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/...-protectionism/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
 

Tony Banta

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I’ve just read a well-written blog about the situation (link below). The writer basically explains how TFL are only doing this to protect black cabs, under the guise of being concerned for Uber customers’ safety. She mentions that Uber drivers actually go through enhanced background checks and once they pass and have a valid private hire license...which is given to them by TFL
themselves.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/...-protectionism/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
What a complete load of poppycock.
 

Grinner

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Do people still bother doing The Knowledge? Seems like an outdated concept to me. I remember navigating London with an A to Z but now we have GPS so I expect they are gone too.

I did sign up for a Zipcar account but never ended up using it. I'd probably use it a lot if I lived in London.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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I’ve just read a well-written blog about the situation (link below). The writer basically explains how TFL are only doing this to protect black cabs, under the guise of being concerned for Uber customers’ safety. She mentions that Uber drivers actually go through enhanced background checks and once they pass and have a valid private hire license...which is given to them by TFL
themselves.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/...-protectionism/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Well written, yes.

Accurate? No. It’s a shower of shit.

Current rules leave people in jeopardy.

Uber vehicles can currently be driven by someone that’s not the verified user. They need to close all loops and leave people safe.

Anyone advocating that this is a TfL ruse to help Black Cab drivers is wrong.
 

VeevaVee

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I had my first ever Uber experience in Manchester at the weekend. We got a black taxi from the airport to Cheetham hill area and it cost £40. An Uber going back from the Hilton at Deansgate cost just over £20. The car was spotless, the driver was a Moroccan fella with perfect English, very knowledgeable and a United fan. Brilliant experience. Would use it again
I've been using it for years but did the ride share for the first time when I was in London a month back. Was with a mate and then picked up another guy on our way back. Could've gone either way, but it was a dead sound super stoned guy and we all had a right laugh. Saved about £20 off the regular Uber journey too.
 

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You don’t believe it?
Struggling to get beyond the fact that it's from those Tory shills at the IEA. Uber has been banned in numerous cities all over the world for a whole host of reasons.
It's a great service, but a godawful company from a governance perspective. Why does the article gloss over the actual reason it's permissions were revoked and deflect with whataboutery?
It's a dreadful opinion. Can you point to a single fact in her argument that supports her claims?
 

Tony Banta

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You don’t believe it?
No, I don’t believe it, because it’s a load of BS.

I wouldn’t believe anything that comes from the IEA.

Trust me when I say, TfL hate Black Cabs.

Kate Andrews fails to mention the 14000 fraudulent rides and even brings race into it.

This is about Ub*r and TfL, yet cabbies get dragged in to it.
 

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yet cabbies get dragged in to it.
They only get dragged into it as the LTDA always is quick to voice their opinion, equally every black cab i jump in starts to go on about Uber. I think TFL is right to hold Uber to account for their practices. It feels like a collaboration between the LTDA and Uber is a wise decision, they could help drive the safety message & Uber could then educate the LTDA on how a customer first business practice works from a convenience perspective.
 

Tony Banta

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They only get dragged into it as the LTDA always is quick to voice their opinion, equally every black cab i jump in starts to go on about Uber. I think TFL is right to hold Uber to account for their practices. It feels like a collaboration between the LTDA and Uber is a wise decision, they could help drive the safety message & Uber could then educate the LTDA on how a customer first business practice works from a convenience perspective.
The LTDA does not represent the Black Cab Trade, they’re despised, within the trade the LTDA stands for Last To Do Anything. They have a dwindling membership, mostly made up of the old dinosaurs. Steve McNamara hasn’t driven a cab in years, he’s clueless.

TfL aren’t really banning ub*r, it’s a show. Smoke and mirrors.
 

F-Red

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The LTDA does not represent the Black Cab Trade, they’re despised, within the trade the LTDA stands for Last To Do Anything. They have a dwindling membership, mostly made up of the old dinosaurs. Steve McNamara hasn’t driven a cab in years, he’s clueless.
Despised or not, they seem to represent 11,000 drivers based on their own statements on the website. Regardless, they don't seem to help the perception of Black cab drivers and a dying business model that doesn't want to improve the user experience.

TfL aren’t really banning ub*r, it’s a show. Smoke and mirrors.
Of course they aren't, they've just revoked a license in order to prompt change and a step up on safety. I don't think anyone for a second has the intention or believes TFL were banning it. If i was a black cabbie I would still worry, if Uber get their act together on the safety element it would kill off their business quickly. The safety angle is the last bastion as to why anyone would use that option these days.
 

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Agreed one good thing about black cabs are proper drivers. Does get frustrating watching an uber driver feck about with a sat nav and even ask the passenger for directions sometimes.
I've not been to England often but one time I took a cab in Manchester and he didn't know the way to Old Trafford. An Uber driver that had moved to England a day prior with no experience driving on the left would have fared better than that driver.