MUFC new transfer recruitment procedure

dal

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I think a lot of you are being very flippant I know this system methodology well having done some work as a data scientist.

The system isn’t just used for for scouting big targets but youngsters too. The model can be altered to yield scenarios where perhaps a player isn’t scoring in a lesser team and combining this with better players to reveal outcomes.

Obviously it’s just a tool and other things need to be considered like mentality etc

Obviously it’s needed to a lesser extent when signing big money players as there abit more obvious.

Im sure it must tell them time and time again we don’t need Lingard but they must keep ignoring it
 

Cloud7

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I am so fecking fed up of being drip fed these stories about how up to date we are behind the scenes and how well things are being run.
 

Crashoutcassius

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Bored of this nonsense, recruitment blah blah blah new signings.

If you give Solskjaer City's team he will fail, give him Liverpool he fails, Barcelona fails, PSG fails. It doesn't matter what contention of quality players we have at our disposal, so long as Ole is in charge the team will underachieve. He's a championship level manager. He's failed in the league repetitively, Moyes was sacked for lack of top four, Mourinho and LVG essentially the same. We have a manager so inept the new standard is now top 8, what a disgrace.
How do you know he won't be sacked if he doesn't get top 4 ? Read it in the sun ?
 

pocco

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Sounds like bullshit for the most part. Change of mind re Maguire, Dybala out of the blue late in the window, Eriksen out of the blue late in the window. There's no way they are the result of months of planning.

But the whole article presumes that the criticism is solely over the identification of players, which it isn't. It's about making deals happen too, actually spending the money. Woodward can't hide away from that and the result of his approach are now bearing fruition.

And, let's be honest, the article paints that scouting system as cutting edge, but it's just basically what you would have presumed every club would have. The software might be new, but I'd have expected they crunch data on players for a long time now, but only as a supplement to what our scouts see with their eyes and experience.
 

pocco

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Just a reminder, in the last 18 months a chief scout said that the manager and woodward didn't care about their suggestions, the manager said that the scouts and Woodward didn't listen to his suggestion and Woodward said that he doesn't suggest anything. They are all deflecting blame.
Yeah this is really worth keeping in mind when reading these articles, which are clearly puff pieces for Woodward. It should be stickied at the top ofnthe page.

What makes me laugh is this coming out before the Liverpool game. Ed is clearly sweating over this game today and fearing the backlash.
 

VorZakone

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1. Why did it take Woodward 4 years to establish a top of the line recruitment strategy/team? A good director of football would have brought that with him along with the ability to judge players with his eyes not just algorithms.

2. What amazing sophisticated algorithm churned out Fred's name?

3. If our new recruitment team is that amazing, why couldn't they find a no. 9 to replace Lukaku and a Right winger other than Manzdukic, Dybala and Sancho, names a 12 yr old who plays fifa can give you.

4. It's obvious to all that United desperately needs a proven DOF to oversee recruitment. Yet Woodward hasn't employed one. City would have bought a super computer instead of employing Tixki Begiristain if algorithms were sufficient to find good players. Where is the proactive approach in recruiting the best in class DOF, will that take another 4 years?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

sammsky1

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Jazzed up is pushing it, probably is just FM. :lol:
My other point is the arrogance of the club to think ours is somehow better than other clubs.

Liverpool’s model looks amazing as helped identify so many unknown and less famous players.

Salah and Mane are two excellent example. They were hardly renowned as top global talents, but the data identified that they would dramatically improve under his coaching and within his system and tactics.

I’ve read an article before which said that FSG used the same model to hire Koop himself.
 
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Shamana

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Honestly I dont see why just need FM. Players like De ligt and Neves have been stars on there long before they became more famous. Arthur as well.
 

Fosu-Mens

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What criteria did they use? British, young, expensive, not good in attack?

On another note, seems like the reason as for why we could not sign any midfielders is solely based on the fact that they had to do the sorting by hand given that Excel for Windows 98 does not support sorting by more than one column at the time.
 

DoomSlayer

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So with this "new system", we aren't able to find young talented CMs for reasonable prices? We couldn't find a single worthy RW, apart from Jadon Sancho? This is absolute bollocks.
 

Greck

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I don't think it's BS but I do think it's not a good sign that our CEO is thin skinned enough to be defending himself against moaning. Unsurprising that he was weak willed enough to succumb to the kneejerk clamour to give Ole the permanent job. This isn't the psyche of someone that should be at the top of a mega corporation

If he isn't going to cede power he needs to surround himself with wise decision makers, shut the hell up and keep powering through the unpopular decisions till he gets it right
 
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jem

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It's also pretty funny these kind of articles about our transfer strategy are coming out in force as if we are now an example to be give for how great we are in recruiting players and building teams.

Watch how these articles are going on and you will believe we are close to top positions in the league hence we are giving everyone an example of how to recruit to achieve success.

Then you look at the table and see us 14th with 1 point ahead of relegation zone and you just have to laugh out loud at this BS and go on with your life.

Woodward is going on so hard trying to defend his strategy and way of managing the club by spreading these things and briefing the media to show how the club has a plan when we have dogshite. We spent 150m on one of the best defenders and the hottest RB talent in the league. So much for this nonsense recruitment strategy. Woodward knows his position is in terrible state. That will be his 4th manager in 7 years and we are no where close to even top 4 never mind challenging for anything.
It's pure Woodward-driven PR nonsense. Until we get a proper DOF, I won't buy into any of this propaganda. Ultimately, the proof is the dross that's being churned out on a weekly basis. Yes, our summer recruitment appears to be ok, but even that was flawed. It took way too long to get Maguire in, and even AWB dragged a bit. If ever there were an off-season in which we needed to: (a) clean out deadwood; (b) get a number of players in (more than 3,) (c) get them in early, it was this past summer.
 

AneRu

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It's pure Woodward-driven PR nonsense. Until we get a proper DOF, I won't buy into any of this propaganda. Ultimately, the proof is the dross that's being churned out on a weekly basis. Yes, our summer recruitment appears to be ok, but even that was flawed. It took way too long to get Maguire in, and even AWB dragged a bit. If ever there were an off-season in which we needed to: (a) clean out deadwood; (b) get a number of players in (more than 3,) (c) get them in early, it was this past summer.
Its Woodward just defending his turf, he won't come out this Ole fiasco unharmed and has gone into self preservation mode. God help us if Liverpool take us to the cleaners today, we won't hear the last of these 'long rebuild, Ole is the right guy' leaks.

My take is that Woodward enjoys the transfer window too much, Ole indulges him as he fully knows that without Woodward's idiocy he would still be in Norway. Woodward also knows that if he is forced to sack Ole, it will be a fourth huge and unnecessary pay off of another failed manager in six years. Even if the Glazers are idiots, his position will come under review, a review which will include input from the likes of Fergie and could result in him not necessarily getting the sack but emerging with much less power over football matters.
 

Mr. Meeseeks

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Even if it is blatantly a Woodward briefing, it sounds like he is actually learning. This is how it should be done, with competent people making the calls using good data. The article makes it seem like he has changed his approach several times, so I forgive him for his past mistakes as he has clearly been learning (albeit painfully slow). In the absence of the genius that was SAF, we need a team of highly technical and highly competent people who use data to inform their decisions and support the manager.

This is how Liverpool have built the incredible team that they have. They only hired Klopp after they checked with their Director of Research, who vetted him mostly by analysing data from games (he didnt even watch most of his final season at Dortmund). That same Director of Research has a hand in all their signings. Their new focus on using data analysis in decision making at every level is what has brought them their new found success.

If Woodward keeps his thick accountant brain bean counting and making deals with our new Official Socks Sponsor or whatever, then I for one will not protest his employ for the next window or two. As long as he leaves the decision making to the pros then I'm willing to wait and see what players this new system brings in.
 

Denis79

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Woodward spewing propaganda to make himself look good. He wad adamant about him having no say in this system, haha. 800+ Full backs, which means 800+ midfielders were looked at when we bought Fred.

Last season Maguire wasn't good enough, this season he makes that top 3 mentioned. Either it's bullshit or the system has a "few" flaws.
 

sammsky1

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Not sure where to post this: but James has been an excellent incoming.
 

JPRouve

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It's interesting because this summer we hired Meredith, an analyst from St Pauli.
 

dpansheth

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So, United have data on thousands of players all across the globe and end up signing three players from clubs playing in English leagues, two of which were extremely obvious signings.

Sounds like that all that data is really being put to good use.

This is exactly how PR works. What they want public to conclude is "we have understanding of 804 RBs, their potential & their strengths & weakness". In reality all they might have is their names and current Club/location.

PR Game, def Woodie briefing. I think heat is turning on him, may be due to the club buyout or being pressured to give up the role to a real DoF.
 

roseguy64

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People really taking the 804 RBs at face value are being silly. They'll not have scouted the majority of those and will just have whatever data is available for them in the database.
 

Sandikan

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Analyse 73,000 players world wide, then decide that only 130m on a right back and centre back will do.
 

JohnnyKills

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Even if it is blatantly a Woodward briefing, it sounds like he is actually learning. This is how it should be done, with competent people making the calls using good data. The article makes it seem like he has changed his approach several times, so I forgive him for his past mistakes as he has clearly been learning (albeit painfully slow). In the absence of the genius that was SAF, we need a team of highly technical and highly competent people who use data to inform their decisions and support the manager.

This is how Liverpool have built the incredible team that they have. They only hired Klopp after they checked with their Director of Research, who vetted him mostly by analysing data from games (he didnt even watch most of his final season at Dortmund). That same Director of Research has a hand in all their signings. Their new focus on using data analysis in decision making at every level is what has brought them their new found success.

If Woodward keeps his thick accountant brain bean counting and making deals with our new Official Socks Sponsor or whatever, then I for one will not protest his employ for the next window or two. As long as he leaves the decision making to the pros then I'm willing to wait and see what players this new system brings in.
Yeah. Tbf we've just signed Dan James, one of the best signings we've made in years. So hopefully the new scouting network is doing its work already.

Whatever we think about Solskjaer, the policy of signing young up-and-coming players instead of guys like Matic and Sanchez has to be a good one.
 

Tom Cato

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This is exactly how PR works. What they want public to conclude is "we have understanding of 804 RBs, their potential & their strengths & weakness". In reality all they might have is their names and current Club/location.

PR Game, def Woodie briefing. I think heat is turning on him, may be due to the club buyout or being pressured to give up the role to a real DoF.
This just isn't true. These databases are a real thing, and they are crazy extensive. First off, what kind of data might be available obviously depends a lot from league to league, but most modern football leagues track all relevant microdata such as pass%, tackle%, a ton of passing data such as pass to area, pass%, high danger pass (gps data models player position, tracks ball movement and the dataset can give you a indication of how "safe" a player passes the ball), pass to opposition/interception, shot on/off target, pass length avg, crosses, header, etc etc etc. The dataset can be matched against opposing teams to provide a score in a series of categories to rank difficulty. For example a good pass% v real madrid means more than a great pass% v Bolton. There are literally hundreds of datacategories that are available from the respective leagues spread over all positions and situations. With the introduction of GPS tracking software, statistical analysis went from a pen and paper operation to a real gamechanger.

Just to be clear, these datamodels are not the end all be all, they certainly have flaws and can't portray things like for example desperation (a team chasing a equalizer in the last 5 minutes, player x makes a desperate mistake that turned costly, the dataset can explain what happened, but not always why, why matters). Thats just one example, but naturally there are more, the human is a very difficult animal to accurately predict in all things. So that is why we use statistics.

In statistical analysis you use something called spacing to explain an action, how close players are around you when you take an action, can be used to explain where a shot was going and why, same with passing, missed passes, etc, how fast was he moving at the time, running, jogging? back turned?

What kind of data that is available from every league and club differs a bit, but the datasets compiled by the large analysis companies are ENORMOUS, and the models are improved all the time. Data analysis in football is a huge, huge thing for the clubs and the companies that provide the big data.

As for the number of 804 RBs.. well, there are many rightbacks in football.

The European Leagues – the Association of European Professional Football Leagues, is comprised of 36 football leagues in Europe alone (27 professional, 6 assosciate leagues, 3 development members), with a total of 950+ clubs. In Europe alone. Then you include South America, North America, Asia, Africa, Oceania, and you have a pretty VAST number of people to shift through, and that is where Big Data comes into play, because without it, this task would be near impossible. I bet you that 804 RBs was the number they got when the criteria was "European, Under 25".

Sure, you might have little information about Hank Spank from Fiji age 18, but if you're talking about any player in a country that has people attending a football stadium, chances are you know how good his expected goal stat is, and wether or not he likes pumpkin spice lattes.

tl;dr: They have a LOT of data on EVERYONE, stop making things up
 

Tom Cato

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Analyse 73,000 players world wide, then decide that only 130m on a right back and centre back will do.
Hey friend. That is a lie. And you know it. We targeted several players last transfer window that we were unable to get done for various reasons. There is no second best option.
 

el diablorojo

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Not sure where to put this
He was Head of Performance Analysis at Brentford for 5 years up untill Rangers poached him in 2015. From what I know he was highly regarded at Brentford, which coming from a club who have used analytics to extremely good effect in the last few years, should bode well. However my understanding is that at Brentofrd he wasn't so much involved in the recruitment side but more in provding analysis of player performance to the management team and the individual players. He won't have access to all the excellent analytic tools and databases Matthew Benham has provided at Brentford either. I can't speak to his time since moving on from Brentford which he may have moved into the pure recruitment side.
 
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Njord

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I choose to be optimistic, and hope that as the leaders at United recognized our poor recruitment, their process of improving it has been successful.

And sure, our lack of business in the summer has hurt us this season, but in the long term, doing wrong business is more harmful. Imagine if we bought a new Darmian, and being a new signing we would've had to give him chances. Then Williams wouldn't have got the chances he's gotten this season.

To those saying that the signings we made were obvious, I seem to recall a lot of shouts for us to sign Pepe in the summer. I wonder how a poll between signing James for £15 mill or Pepe for £70 mill would have ended.
 

meamth

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Νο that was Giggs.
Claiming it was because of Giggs we signed James is daft. They might scouted James based on his running stats on Wyscout. I'm sure that was Ole's recommendation when finding a player of that criteria. Ole asks a player, scouts do their research on wyscout, they go on a scouting mission, abilities ticks all the boxes, find recommendation (Giggs), check his background, sign the player.

We're certainly upgrading our data analyzing capabilities in our club.

If there's any leg about our new soucting software (Wyscout), this appointment is a step in the right direction for our recruitment.