My thoughts are with all those that lost loved ones and were affected by that terrible day in any way.
RIP Busby Babes
RIP Busby Babes
Munich - 60 years remembrance thread
- Thread starter jojojo
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Thank you for the memories which were all too few. R.I.P.
Oh yeah. Madrid offered their help, they were great. As usual, the FA showed how 'classy' they were
I remember that just after watching the City game which we lost 2-1 at Old Trafford for the 50th Anniversary. It was an very emotional day that and still hits me to this day
R.I.P Never ever forgotten
RIP never forgotten
RIP Busby babes
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
May they all Rest In Peace as their spirits live on.
We keep the red flag flying high, cos Man United will never die.
We keep the red flag flying high, cos Man United will never die.
Looks like there was no grass on the pitch at all that day. How times have changed.
Quite emotional watching the service on mutv with the choir singing. Fergie, Jose, and Sir Bobby all sat together along with the players.
One point..Alexis seemed memorized when he saw Sir Bobby.
One point..Alexis seemed memorized when he saw Sir Bobby.
Know quite a few who went over for this...
That picture was from 10 years ago, no?
They got that badge only 2 years ago. City lover my arse
plus look at the date of the tweetThey will forever be Manchester United Legends. RIP
Heh. Forward this to the mods please.They got that badge only 2 years ago. City lover my arse
I recall the 50th anniversary, the excellent moment of silence from both fans, and the jerseys without the ads, just numbers. The result wasn't the best, but one can argue that the occasion got to the players.
Anyone know where I can find a high resolution version of this to pop on a large canvas? Been looking for ages for one big enough...
Not quite true that...there were fireworks being set off outside the ground and a few cat calls and shouts from the City end, so much so that the ref cut the minutes silence short...
Oh my, this was going to be hard enough without the snow. No idea how those who were involved are holding it together.
RIP Flowers of Manchester
RIP Flowers of Manchester
RIP
Really? I remember it being impeccable.
"He's no Duncan Edwards" became a bit of a family joke over the years, as it was my great Uncle's response to any talk about the next up and coming player or much lauded goal on MOTD. He had no club allegiance, growing up in the Midlands he wasn't short on local clubs so he'd just pick the game he was going to on a Friday night after work. Asking about Duncan would result in him heaping so much praise on his abilities, you'd have thought it was his son he was talking about.
Not a great time to be caught smiling Valencia!
Every description you hear just portrays him as this absolutely uniquely talented player in that he was the perfect combination of strength, skill and speed all rolled into one. And to think he was probably still a fair bit off his prime too.
Courtesy of RAWK member Andy G. Hope Andy doesn't mind that I've posted it here:
'08 February 1958 - Liverpool v Charlton Ath., Anfield, League Div. 2 – Won 3-1
Liverpool played Charlton at Anfield on 8th February 1958 and won the game 3-1 with goals from Geoff Twentyman, Billy Liddell and Bobby Murdoch, Charlton’s response coming from Ron White. The win moved us up to third place in the league behind Charlton and West Ham who both had a point more. It didn’t matter though as the country was in shock, for two days earlier a plane carrying the Manchester United team crashed in Munich whilst travelling back from a European match against Red Star Belgrade with the loss of 8 players and 15 officials and journalists, including former Manchester City goalkeeper, Frank Swift. Survivors included former Liverpool player and now manager of Manchester United, Matt Busby as well as England International Bobby Charlton.
In Memory of those that died in Munich on 6th February 1958:
Players
Geoff Bent
Roger Byrne (Capt)
Eddie Coleman
Duncan Edwards
Mark Jones
David Pegg
Tommy Taylor
Liam Whelan
Non Players
Tom Cable (Club Steward)
Walter Crickmer (Club Secretary)
Tom Curry (Club Trainer)
Alf Clarke (Manchester Evening Chronicle)
Don Davies (Manchester Guardian)
George Follows (Daily Herald)
Tom Jackson (Manchester Evening News)
Archie Ledbrooke (Daily Mirror)
Bela Miklos (Travel Agent)
Capt Ken Rayment (Pilot)
Henry Rose (Daily Express)
Willie Satinoff (Fan)
Eric Thompson (Daily Mail)
Frank Swift( News of the World)
Bert Whalley (Club Coach)
Matt Busby’s Manchester United was the first English club to participate in the newly formed European Cup. The competition had started two seasons earlier but Champions Chelsea was denied entry by the Football League’s secretary Alan Hardaker. After United won the league in 1956, Hardaker again denied the English Champions entry, but Busby was determined and with the help of Stanley Rous of the Football Association, United defied the football league and entered the competition, where they got knocked out in the Semi-Final by Real Madrid.
After United had retained the English league in 1957, they again entered the competition beating Shamrock Rovers in the qualifier, then Dukla Prague in the first round before drawing Red Star Belgrade of Serbia (part of Yugoslavia at the time) in the Quarter-Finals. The first leg had been in Manchester with United winning 2-1, and then United drew 3-3 in Belgrade to go into the Semi-Finals.
The flight back from Prague in the previous round was delayed because of fog in Manchester, so the team flew to Amsterdam and got the ferry from Hook van Holland to Harwich and then the train to Manchester. United drew with Birmingham three days later and United blamed the journey back from Europe for not winning the game. With this in mind, the United board decided to charter a flight for this fixture, in which the Elizabethan class Airspeed Ambassador plane would stop for refuelling in Munich. Second world-war flying ace Captain Kenneth Rayment was the co-pilot with Captain James Thain being the main man at the controls for the flight. Both were very experienced pilots.
There had been heavy snow in Munich and the runway had snow and slush on it. At just after three O’clock in the afternoon, the plane was given clearance to take off, but the take-off was abandoned after Capt. Thain noticed the port boost pressure gauge fluctuating and strange sounds from the engine. Immediately, a second attempt was made to take off, but issues with the engines again resulted in an aborted take-off. After two failed attempts, passengers disembarked and went back to the terminal. The snow came down more, and heavier than before, while England Duncan Edwards was sending a telegram to his landlady to say that all flights were cancelled and that he would be flying tomorrow…if only!
Duncan was 21 and had already scored 5 goals for England in his 18 appearances. Many people say he was the greatest player on the planet – or at least would have been had he matured as expected. It is not only United fans that I have heard that from, but also Liverpool supporters, including my Dad and Uncle Michael, as well as Everton supporters like Uncle John. He must truly have been a special player.
On the technical side of things, and under time schedule pressure, Capt. Thain suggested that opening the throttle slower would enable take-off, but it would mean the take-off velocity (V-2) would not happen until further down the runway, and so the passengers were re-boarded for a third attempt. Rayment and Thain guided the plane back to the runway and began to accelerate. As it gathered speed, slush was being displaced by the wheels, but despite this the plane continued to accelerate and reached 117 knots at which point Raymont declared V-1 (the point at which it was no longer safe to abort the take-off). Acceleration should have continued and at 119 knots (220km/h), V-2 (take-off) could happen. Instead, the speed suddenly dropped to 112 knots and then 105 knots at which point Rayment shouted ‘Christ, we won’t make it’. Rayment was right and the plane skidded off the end of the runway and crashed, hitting a family house. 20 people lost their lives and three more died within the next few days.
Pilot Ken Raymont was one of those that perished, but Capt. Thain survived. He was to become the victim of a massive injustice in the years to come as everyone was looking for a culpable person. The Air Crash Investigators were from Germany, paid by the German Government and certainly just 13 years after the end of the war, did not want to be (seen to be) responsible for the deaths of famous English football players.
Professor Phil Scraton wrote on Red and White Kop an article that I related to and, I think, described perfectly how Liverpool fans (I imagine) must have felt at the time. It was ten years before I was born:
“It was a cold evening in February 1958 when the radio broke the news that a plane carrying Manchester United’s team had crashed at Munich airport. The manager, the likeable Matt Busby, and his renowned ‘Busby Babes’, were among the dead and injured. It was devastating news especially as playing in Europe was a recent development. We were stunned and I remember going to bed that night, looking at the pictures of the team in my Football Diary and praying that the great Duncan would be alright. Soon we knew. Seven players, three United staff, seven journalists and three others had died. Duncan Edwards and Matt Busby were critically ill. Among the journalists the legendary Frank Swift, former Manchester City goalie, had died. I’d heard stories about his incredible agility and massive hand span. Duncan passed away 15 days later and a co-pilot also died in hospital. Nine players, including the young Bobby Charlton, survived as did the Captain James Thain and eleven others. While I was oblivious to what was happening in Manchester – despite it being only the other end of the East Lancs I’d never been there – I recall being deeply upset for a long time afterwards."
Professor Scraton then went on to say:
"Landing at Munich the runway was laden with slush. It continued to snow. Before leaving for Manchester the crew checked the wings to ensure no ice had formed and the pilots agreed de-icing was unnecessary. As Captain Thain had flown the outbound flight his friend Captain Rayment was at the controls so they had changed seats. As the plane accelerated down the runway the pilots realised there were problems with the engines and the pressure gauges on the instrument panel. They abandoned take-off and braked heavily, skidding to a halt through the slush. Apparently the cause was ‘boost-surging’ within the engines, a problem previously experienced with this type of airplane. Clearance was given for a second attempt to take off but once again, as the plane picked up speed down, the pilots aborted. This time the plane returned to the parking bay for checks. Photographs show clearly that there had been a fresh fall of snow on the tarmac adding to the existing slush. The passengers disembarked and the pilots and the station engineer decided against retuning the engines. A third take-off attempt would be made. The wings were observed as ice free but the runway was holding more snow and slush. A quick inspection of the runway by airport staff gave the go-ahead despite there being an uneven distribution of slush.
Reluctantly the team and other passengers returned to the aircraft. To overcome the problem with the engines the pilot opened the throttles more slowly as the plane went down the runway. It picked up speed towards take off and the pilots successfully dealt with some engine surging but the plane lost speed when it reached the undisturbed slush. Running out of tarmac it ploughed across snow-laden grass, smashed the perimeter fence and hit a house, a tree and a garage. The plane caught fire in small pockets but the main fuel tank remained secure. What followed were great moments of heroism as uninjured staff and players climbed back into the plane to rescue those trapped and injured, including Matt Busby. Already 20 people were dead. Once the rescue services arrived the fires were doused and Captain Rayment was cut free. He died later.
The German accident investigators arrived that evening. Examining the wreck without proper lighting they determined the wings were iced up beneath the subsequent fall of snow. That was their early determination as the sole cause of the disaster. BEA sent an investigation team to Munich. The team found no problems with the engines. All indications, including the opinion of the station engineer pointed to the cause of deceleration as slush on the runway. This was also Captain Thain’s opinion. Yet the West German Traffic and Transport Ministry announced that ‘the aircraft did not leave the ground’ probably ‘as the result of ice on the wings’. Captain Thain was criticised for not providing a satisfactory explanation as to why he did not ‘discontinue the final attempt to take off’. This determination laid the blame entirely at the door of the pilots. Alternatively, any finding of accumulation of snow and slush on the runway and inadequate inspection would place responsibility on the authorities.
In April 1958 a full German Inquiry was held behind closed doors. Witnesses were selected by the German senior investigator and, remarkably, the airport controllers were not called to give evidence. After much controversy and contradiction by ‘experts’ over ice on the wings it became clear that the Inquiry judge favoured icing as the principal cause of the disaster. ‘Other circumstances’ might have contributed but it was too late to determine their relevance. A year and a month after the disaster the Inquiry report was released. Ice on the wings was the ‘decisive cause’ and the pilots, Rayment (dead) and Thain (alive), were held responsible. The BEA Safety Committee refuted the report’s conclusions although it accepted that icing on the wings might have contributed. Slush on the runway was a significant factor, Captain Thain was criticised for not occupying the seat in the cockpit appropriate for the overall captain of the aircraft. Thain, his career in ruins and under suspension, sought to clear his name. Yet a further hearing in 1960 criticised his failure to ensure that the wings were clear of ice and his employers sacked him, adding that he had breached regulations by being in the wrong seat. United’s negligence case against BEA was settled out of court.
Further investigative trials were held and expert opinion was sought as scientific knowledge moved on. In November 1965 a second inquiry was convened in Germany to consider the new evidence and opinions. Some consideration of slush on the runway was accepted but ice on the wings ‘was still to be regarded as the essential cause …’ The following April the British Ministry of Aviation retorted that the ‘strong likelihood’ was ‘there was no significant icing during take off’ and ‘the principal cause of the crash was the effect of slush on the runway’. A decade after the disaster a British inquiry was convened. A key witness, previously not called - an aeronautical engineer first on the scene, stated categorically that the wings were not iced. Not only had the German authorities failed to call him to their inquiries but his written statement had been altered to omit a crucial element of his testimony. Photographic evidence, it seemed, had also been altered. In 1969 the British inquiry report concluded that slush had impeded the nose wheel of the aircraft and the subsequent drag on all wheels was the ‘prime cause’. Once deceleration had happened there was insufficient runway to pick up speed and ‘blame for the accident is NOT to be imputed to Captain Thain’. The German authorities rejected the findings. Captain Thain died of a heart attack at the young age of 54.
Mike Kemble, from whose research much of the above summary is derived, states that ‘there is no doubt … that a cover up was engineered by the West German authorities, possibly even as high as the Federal Government in Bonn. There was never going to be any doubt about the outcome from the first inspection of the crash site to the publication of the report’. He raises 10 important unanswered questions regarding the disaster and the aftermath and his detailed research has drawn on many other sources including Captain Rayment’s son, Steve. Mike Kemble’s excellent work, including photographic evidence and excerpts from the Captain’s log can be found at:
www.mikekemble.com/manutd/munich
Reading Mike’s work and a range of other material for this overview has answered many of the questions and concerns I remember thinking about in the late 1960s. I have always been uneasy that Munich was considered an ‘accident’ due mainly to pilot error. My analyses of disasters over the last 20 years have shown a clear and unambiguous reluctance of authorities to accept responsibility for their culpable acts or omissions, for their institutionalised negligent custom and practice. It suits those in power, whether public bodies or private corporations, to lay blame with individuals at the coal face rather than look to their institutionalised failings. What is clear from the above is the depth of injustice endured by the bereaved and survivors of Munich, not least Captains Thain and Rayment and their families who fought for so long to clear their names. The parallels with Hillsborough are clear, right down to the failure to call witnesses and the review and alteration of statements.
It is my view, and I hope it is shared by all who read this, that our commitment to Justice for the 96 should bring compassion for all who died and suffered in Munich 1958; that our common purpose should unite us; and that life and justice is all and football is our shared passion. But that passion should never spill over into hatred, into the vilification of the dead or into exacerbating the suffering of the bereaved and survivors. As I write this my tears are in sadness for those lost and injured and for those whose lives have been cut short by their pain. They are in anger towards those from both cities who have dared taunt the memory of the dead and desecrate the experiences of the bereaved and survivors.
Justice for Munich; Justice for Hillsborough; and remembering those who died."
© Phil Scraton 2008
The pilots would eventually be publicly cleared by Prime Minster Harold Wilson in a House of Commons speech, but the German Authorities never accepted that anything except ice on the wings was the essential cause. Wilson had been MP for Huyton just outside Liverpool.
As a result of the disaster, the Manchester United team had been decimated. Whilst the teams’ immediate fixtures were postponed, the next match to be played would be against Nottingham Forest on 22nd February. The programme for the match included the full expected Sheffield Wednesday team, but all the Manchester United team was left blank since it was not known who would be able to play. When I saw this it saddened me immensely as it really hit home the effect of such a terrible disaster.
In order for United to continue its’ season, Tommy Heron, Stan Crowther and Ernie Taylor were recruited from Portadown, Villa and Blackpool respectively, but 11 reserve team players also made their debuts that season. An offer from Real Madrid to lend the services of Alfredo De Stefano was blocked by the F.A. as he would be taking the place of a British player. Our esteemed F.A. would also decline UEFA’s offer to permit both Manchester United and eventual league winners, Wolves into the European Cup for the following season.
Remarkably, United’s patched up team won through from the F.A. Cup fifth round through to the Final where it eventually lost to Bolton Wanderers.
To this day, there is a clock at Old Trafford that remains at 4 minutes past three, the time of the crash on that dreadful February afternoon. This was truly a dark day for football and Liverpool stand firm with Manchester United in grieving such a sad loss.'
'08 February 1958 - Liverpool v Charlton Ath., Anfield, League Div. 2 – Won 3-1
Liverpool played Charlton at Anfield on 8th February 1958 and won the game 3-1 with goals from Geoff Twentyman, Billy Liddell and Bobby Murdoch, Charlton’s response coming from Ron White. The win moved us up to third place in the league behind Charlton and West Ham who both had a point more. It didn’t matter though as the country was in shock, for two days earlier a plane carrying the Manchester United team crashed in Munich whilst travelling back from a European match against Red Star Belgrade with the loss of 8 players and 15 officials and journalists, including former Manchester City goalkeeper, Frank Swift. Survivors included former Liverpool player and now manager of Manchester United, Matt Busby as well as England International Bobby Charlton.
In Memory of those that died in Munich on 6th February 1958:
Players
Geoff Bent
Roger Byrne (Capt)
Eddie Coleman
Duncan Edwards
Mark Jones
David Pegg
Tommy Taylor
Liam Whelan
Non Players
Tom Cable (Club Steward)
Walter Crickmer (Club Secretary)
Tom Curry (Club Trainer)
Alf Clarke (Manchester Evening Chronicle)
Don Davies (Manchester Guardian)
George Follows (Daily Herald)
Tom Jackson (Manchester Evening News)
Archie Ledbrooke (Daily Mirror)
Bela Miklos (Travel Agent)
Capt Ken Rayment (Pilot)
Henry Rose (Daily Express)
Willie Satinoff (Fan)
Eric Thompson (Daily Mail)
Frank Swift( News of the World)
Bert Whalley (Club Coach)
Matt Busby’s Manchester United was the first English club to participate in the newly formed European Cup. The competition had started two seasons earlier but Champions Chelsea was denied entry by the Football League’s secretary Alan Hardaker. After United won the league in 1956, Hardaker again denied the English Champions entry, but Busby was determined and with the help of Stanley Rous of the Football Association, United defied the football league and entered the competition, where they got knocked out in the Semi-Final by Real Madrid.
After United had retained the English league in 1957, they again entered the competition beating Shamrock Rovers in the qualifier, then Dukla Prague in the first round before drawing Red Star Belgrade of Serbia (part of Yugoslavia at the time) in the Quarter-Finals. The first leg had been in Manchester with United winning 2-1, and then United drew 3-3 in Belgrade to go into the Semi-Finals.
The flight back from Prague in the previous round was delayed because of fog in Manchester, so the team flew to Amsterdam and got the ferry from Hook van Holland to Harwich and then the train to Manchester. United drew with Birmingham three days later and United blamed the journey back from Europe for not winning the game. With this in mind, the United board decided to charter a flight for this fixture, in which the Elizabethan class Airspeed Ambassador plane would stop for refuelling in Munich. Second world-war flying ace Captain Kenneth Rayment was the co-pilot with Captain James Thain being the main man at the controls for the flight. Both were very experienced pilots.
There had been heavy snow in Munich and the runway had snow and slush on it. At just after three O’clock in the afternoon, the plane was given clearance to take off, but the take-off was abandoned after Capt. Thain noticed the port boost pressure gauge fluctuating and strange sounds from the engine. Immediately, a second attempt was made to take off, but issues with the engines again resulted in an aborted take-off. After two failed attempts, passengers disembarked and went back to the terminal. The snow came down more, and heavier than before, while England Duncan Edwards was sending a telegram to his landlady to say that all flights were cancelled and that he would be flying tomorrow…if only!
Duncan was 21 and had already scored 5 goals for England in his 18 appearances. Many people say he was the greatest player on the planet – or at least would have been had he matured as expected. It is not only United fans that I have heard that from, but also Liverpool supporters, including my Dad and Uncle Michael, as well as Everton supporters like Uncle John. He must truly have been a special player.
On the technical side of things, and under time schedule pressure, Capt. Thain suggested that opening the throttle slower would enable take-off, but it would mean the take-off velocity (V-2) would not happen until further down the runway, and so the passengers were re-boarded for a third attempt. Rayment and Thain guided the plane back to the runway and began to accelerate. As it gathered speed, slush was being displaced by the wheels, but despite this the plane continued to accelerate and reached 117 knots at which point Raymont declared V-1 (the point at which it was no longer safe to abort the take-off). Acceleration should have continued and at 119 knots (220km/h), V-2 (take-off) could happen. Instead, the speed suddenly dropped to 112 knots and then 105 knots at which point Rayment shouted ‘Christ, we won’t make it’. Rayment was right and the plane skidded off the end of the runway and crashed, hitting a family house. 20 people lost their lives and three more died within the next few days.
Pilot Ken Raymont was one of those that perished, but Capt. Thain survived. He was to become the victim of a massive injustice in the years to come as everyone was looking for a culpable person. The Air Crash Investigators were from Germany, paid by the German Government and certainly just 13 years after the end of the war, did not want to be (seen to be) responsible for the deaths of famous English football players.
Professor Phil Scraton wrote on Red and White Kop an article that I related to and, I think, described perfectly how Liverpool fans (I imagine) must have felt at the time. It was ten years before I was born:
“It was a cold evening in February 1958 when the radio broke the news that a plane carrying Manchester United’s team had crashed at Munich airport. The manager, the likeable Matt Busby, and his renowned ‘Busby Babes’, were among the dead and injured. It was devastating news especially as playing in Europe was a recent development. We were stunned and I remember going to bed that night, looking at the pictures of the team in my Football Diary and praying that the great Duncan would be alright. Soon we knew. Seven players, three United staff, seven journalists and three others had died. Duncan Edwards and Matt Busby were critically ill. Among the journalists the legendary Frank Swift, former Manchester City goalie, had died. I’d heard stories about his incredible agility and massive hand span. Duncan passed away 15 days later and a co-pilot also died in hospital. Nine players, including the young Bobby Charlton, survived as did the Captain James Thain and eleven others. While I was oblivious to what was happening in Manchester – despite it being only the other end of the East Lancs I’d never been there – I recall being deeply upset for a long time afterwards."
Professor Scraton then went on to say:
"Landing at Munich the runway was laden with slush. It continued to snow. Before leaving for Manchester the crew checked the wings to ensure no ice had formed and the pilots agreed de-icing was unnecessary. As Captain Thain had flown the outbound flight his friend Captain Rayment was at the controls so they had changed seats. As the plane accelerated down the runway the pilots realised there were problems with the engines and the pressure gauges on the instrument panel. They abandoned take-off and braked heavily, skidding to a halt through the slush. Apparently the cause was ‘boost-surging’ within the engines, a problem previously experienced with this type of airplane. Clearance was given for a second attempt to take off but once again, as the plane picked up speed down, the pilots aborted. This time the plane returned to the parking bay for checks. Photographs show clearly that there had been a fresh fall of snow on the tarmac adding to the existing slush. The passengers disembarked and the pilots and the station engineer decided against retuning the engines. A third take-off attempt would be made. The wings were observed as ice free but the runway was holding more snow and slush. A quick inspection of the runway by airport staff gave the go-ahead despite there being an uneven distribution of slush.
Reluctantly the team and other passengers returned to the aircraft. To overcome the problem with the engines the pilot opened the throttles more slowly as the plane went down the runway. It picked up speed towards take off and the pilots successfully dealt with some engine surging but the plane lost speed when it reached the undisturbed slush. Running out of tarmac it ploughed across snow-laden grass, smashed the perimeter fence and hit a house, a tree and a garage. The plane caught fire in small pockets but the main fuel tank remained secure. What followed were great moments of heroism as uninjured staff and players climbed back into the plane to rescue those trapped and injured, including Matt Busby. Already 20 people were dead. Once the rescue services arrived the fires were doused and Captain Rayment was cut free. He died later.
The German accident investigators arrived that evening. Examining the wreck without proper lighting they determined the wings were iced up beneath the subsequent fall of snow. That was their early determination as the sole cause of the disaster. BEA sent an investigation team to Munich. The team found no problems with the engines. All indications, including the opinion of the station engineer pointed to the cause of deceleration as slush on the runway. This was also Captain Thain’s opinion. Yet the West German Traffic and Transport Ministry announced that ‘the aircraft did not leave the ground’ probably ‘as the result of ice on the wings’. Captain Thain was criticised for not providing a satisfactory explanation as to why he did not ‘discontinue the final attempt to take off’. This determination laid the blame entirely at the door of the pilots. Alternatively, any finding of accumulation of snow and slush on the runway and inadequate inspection would place responsibility on the authorities.
In April 1958 a full German Inquiry was held behind closed doors. Witnesses were selected by the German senior investigator and, remarkably, the airport controllers were not called to give evidence. After much controversy and contradiction by ‘experts’ over ice on the wings it became clear that the Inquiry judge favoured icing as the principal cause of the disaster. ‘Other circumstances’ might have contributed but it was too late to determine their relevance. A year and a month after the disaster the Inquiry report was released. Ice on the wings was the ‘decisive cause’ and the pilots, Rayment (dead) and Thain (alive), were held responsible. The BEA Safety Committee refuted the report’s conclusions although it accepted that icing on the wings might have contributed. Slush on the runway was a significant factor, Captain Thain was criticised for not occupying the seat in the cockpit appropriate for the overall captain of the aircraft. Thain, his career in ruins and under suspension, sought to clear his name. Yet a further hearing in 1960 criticised his failure to ensure that the wings were clear of ice and his employers sacked him, adding that he had breached regulations by being in the wrong seat. United’s negligence case against BEA was settled out of court.
Further investigative trials were held and expert opinion was sought as scientific knowledge moved on. In November 1965 a second inquiry was convened in Germany to consider the new evidence and opinions. Some consideration of slush on the runway was accepted but ice on the wings ‘was still to be regarded as the essential cause …’ The following April the British Ministry of Aviation retorted that the ‘strong likelihood’ was ‘there was no significant icing during take off’ and ‘the principal cause of the crash was the effect of slush on the runway’. A decade after the disaster a British inquiry was convened. A key witness, previously not called - an aeronautical engineer first on the scene, stated categorically that the wings were not iced. Not only had the German authorities failed to call him to their inquiries but his written statement had been altered to omit a crucial element of his testimony. Photographic evidence, it seemed, had also been altered. In 1969 the British inquiry report concluded that slush had impeded the nose wheel of the aircraft and the subsequent drag on all wheels was the ‘prime cause’. Once deceleration had happened there was insufficient runway to pick up speed and ‘blame for the accident is NOT to be imputed to Captain Thain’. The German authorities rejected the findings. Captain Thain died of a heart attack at the young age of 54.
Mike Kemble, from whose research much of the above summary is derived, states that ‘there is no doubt … that a cover up was engineered by the West German authorities, possibly even as high as the Federal Government in Bonn. There was never going to be any doubt about the outcome from the first inspection of the crash site to the publication of the report’. He raises 10 important unanswered questions regarding the disaster and the aftermath and his detailed research has drawn on many other sources including Captain Rayment’s son, Steve. Mike Kemble’s excellent work, including photographic evidence and excerpts from the Captain’s log can be found at:
www.mikekemble.com/manutd/munich
Reading Mike’s work and a range of other material for this overview has answered many of the questions and concerns I remember thinking about in the late 1960s. I have always been uneasy that Munich was considered an ‘accident’ due mainly to pilot error. My analyses of disasters over the last 20 years have shown a clear and unambiguous reluctance of authorities to accept responsibility for their culpable acts or omissions, for their institutionalised negligent custom and practice. It suits those in power, whether public bodies or private corporations, to lay blame with individuals at the coal face rather than look to their institutionalised failings. What is clear from the above is the depth of injustice endured by the bereaved and survivors of Munich, not least Captains Thain and Rayment and their families who fought for so long to clear their names. The parallels with Hillsborough are clear, right down to the failure to call witnesses and the review and alteration of statements.
It is my view, and I hope it is shared by all who read this, that our commitment to Justice for the 96 should bring compassion for all who died and suffered in Munich 1958; that our common purpose should unite us; and that life and justice is all and football is our shared passion. But that passion should never spill over into hatred, into the vilification of the dead or into exacerbating the suffering of the bereaved and survivors. As I write this my tears are in sadness for those lost and injured and for those whose lives have been cut short by their pain. They are in anger towards those from both cities who have dared taunt the memory of the dead and desecrate the experiences of the bereaved and survivors.
Justice for Munich; Justice for Hillsborough; and remembering those who died."
© Phil Scraton 2008
The pilots would eventually be publicly cleared by Prime Minster Harold Wilson in a House of Commons speech, but the German Authorities never accepted that anything except ice on the wings was the essential cause. Wilson had been MP for Huyton just outside Liverpool.
As a result of the disaster, the Manchester United team had been decimated. Whilst the teams’ immediate fixtures were postponed, the next match to be played would be against Nottingham Forest on 22nd February. The programme for the match included the full expected Sheffield Wednesday team, but all the Manchester United team was left blank since it was not known who would be able to play. When I saw this it saddened me immensely as it really hit home the effect of such a terrible disaster.
In order for United to continue its’ season, Tommy Heron, Stan Crowther and Ernie Taylor were recruited from Portadown, Villa and Blackpool respectively, but 11 reserve team players also made their debuts that season. An offer from Real Madrid to lend the services of Alfredo De Stefano was blocked by the F.A. as he would be taking the place of a British player. Our esteemed F.A. would also decline UEFA’s offer to permit both Manchester United and eventual league winners, Wolves into the European Cup for the following season.
Remarkably, United’s patched up team won through from the F.A. Cup fifth round through to the Final where it eventually lost to Bolton Wanderers.
To this day, there is a clock at Old Trafford that remains at 4 minutes past three, the time of the crash on that dreadful February afternoon. This was truly a dark day for football and Liverpool stand firm with Manchester United in grieving such a sad loss.'
RIP
Good to read the words from rivals, some things transcend football.
A great article about how your club helped United recover from the tragedy...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...er-loanalfredo-di-stefano-man-utd-munich-air/
I know that recent relations between our clubs have not been on the best of terms, but Busby's United was helped greatly by Bernabeu's Madrid.
It truly is. The more you read and think about it, the more you realise the heaviness of such tragedy. So many great young players and people lost their lives and the team who was the best in England and among the very best in the world was suddenly ripped apart.Look at what Sir Bobby went on to achieve in his life, both on and off the field. One of the greatest English players and football ambassadors of all time. And to think that so many great players alongside him were taken so young in this tragedy. What would some of them have gone on to achieve? Duncan Edwards especially who Sir Bobby himself said was the greatest player he ever played with.
So sad
That feeling of extreme sadness mixed with a sense of pride that the team managed to lift itself up and carry on will always be deeply embodied within this club.
RIP to those who lost their lives and to the survivors who have since passed away.
It must have been a very traumatic experience for those who survived the wreckage and we all owe a debt of gratitude to them.
It’s also gratifying that a lot of fans from other teams set aside their differences both then and now.
It must have been a very traumatic experience for those who survived the wreckage and we all owe a debt of gratitude to them.
It’s also gratifying that a lot of fans from other teams set aside their differences both then and now.
RIP
RIP
When I first read about this tragedy as a kid I thought it was so long ago but now 30 years later it feels so much closer.
Terrible tragedy RIP to all who died.
Terrible tragedy RIP to all who died.
This was the reason that my whole family became mad Manchester United fans. My dad was at work when the news came over the radio. The incident touched him that much that he followed the story closely. The way the team handled the aftermath and the rise to glory left him nothing but massive respect for the club. Over the years that respect grew into love. A love he shared with his wife and children.
My own love affair started in the 70's watching them on the cup runs that defined the team of that era. The whole family would sit around the TV shouting them on. I started going to matches in 1979 not to Old Trafford yet but to the local games at Villa, West Brom, Coventry, Leicester, Wolves and Birmingham. The old away day rail tickets used to be a god send as they would let us travel all over the midlands, East and West. When compulsory tickets were introduced it took away that avenue of watching United.
Once my elder brother past his test and got a car we started travelling up to the ground when ever we could get a ticket in the ballot for a weekend match.
All these years later I still realise that had it not been for that disastrous flight and the subsequent rise from the ashes I probably wouldn't be a United fan now.
God Bless The Flowers our thoughts are always with you on this day.
My own love affair started in the 70's watching them on the cup runs that defined the team of that era. The whole family would sit around the TV shouting them on. I started going to matches in 1979 not to Old Trafford yet but to the local games at Villa, West Brom, Coventry, Leicester, Wolves and Birmingham. The old away day rail tickets used to be a god send as they would let us travel all over the midlands, East and West. When compulsory tickets were introduced it took away that avenue of watching United.
Once my elder brother past his test and got a car we started travelling up to the ground when ever we could get a ticket in the ballot for a weekend match.
All these years later I still realise that had it not been for that disastrous flight and the subsequent rise from the ashes I probably wouldn't be a United fan now.
God Bless The Flowers our thoughts are always with you on this day.
I'm just home from the commemoration at Old Trafford. Very moving occasion. So strange to see the snow falling.
Thank you, I had already read it. In those times football was not so impersonal
Been making this small book since Christmas leading up to the 60th anniversary. Disappointed that I couldn't make OT today
imgur.com/a/fEsuu
imgur.com/a/fEsuu
R.I.P.