Murtough and Ten Hag on Utd squad

[FreakyJim]

[Manchester United Fans’ Forum Minutes Friday 29th April 2022] Richard Arnold : 'I can assure you that we share that frustration very intensely within the club.
But we also feel confidence that change is coming because of the action being taken to drive long-term success. "

Quotes From Richard Arnold :

• Suffice to say, we are not happy with where we are in terms of
  performance on the pitch.
• We understand fans are frustrated and want to see change and improvement.
  I can assure you that we share that frustration very intensely within the club.
• But we also feel confidence that change is coming because of the action
  being taken to drive long-term success.
• The appointment of Erik ten Hag was the most visible example of that action,
  and the most important. We’re pleased to have got that done early and we
  can’t wait for Erik to get started.
• Success won’t be achieved overnight but we are determined to get there, and
  we will be relentless in our efforts to achieve it
• The support of fans will be crucial, and we accept that we have further work to
  do to strengthen that relationship, aided by the work of this Forum.

Quotes from John Murtough


Manager appointment part of wider positive change

• Early managerial appointment provides clarity and confidence for next season
  and beyond
• Significant improvement needed after very disappointing season; MU
  standards & expectations not met
• Fresh start under ETH as soon as season ends

ETH unanimous choice after rigorous process

• All agreed ETH the best candidate from a strong field; the one most closely
  aligned with MU identity and aims:
• Proven winner
• Attractive, attacking style of play
• Commitment to youth
• Improves players and develops teams

Most impressive candidate during the interviews

• Set out clear vision for long-term success
• Showed passion, energy and enthusiasm for the challenge

Experienced but still on an upward career curve

• Over 40 UCL games (inc SF); big club experience at Bayern
• Took Ajax to first semi-finals in 12 years

Long-term vision to build a successful, exciting team capable of competing
for titles

• ETH will aim to maximise potential of existing players in near-term while
  building towards long-term success
• Squad strengthening & renewal this summer
• ETH will be a key voice in this process, together with recruitment department
  to identify and secure targets
• There remains huge potential in existing squad, and strong Academy talent
  coming through

Football structure & support functions

• Ongoing changes in scouting & recruitment
• Hidden’ changes to support functions (eg upgraded first team nutrition)
  reflects wider transformation in culture & performance Football infrastructure
• Master Planners (KSS) appointed for major redevelopment to ensure training
  facilities remain world-class
• Interim upgrades under way at Carrington in advance of long-term
  redevelopment, involving significant investment

Quotes from Nic Cox, Head of Academy :
Academy thriving

• A lot of work and investment has been put into strengthening the Academy
  over recent years and we feel the fruits of that are now showing through.
  Players reaching first team
• We have had the highest percentage of game time for homegrown players in
  the Premier League since the start of 20/21 (27.6%).
• 4 debuts (Heaton, Iqbal, Savage and Garnacho) this season
• Elanga established himself as a regular starter
• Most productive Academy in England – our aim is to preserve and strengthen
  that status

Youth Cup run

• It’s been a fantastic journey and a great development opportunity. The players
  have learnt so much that will benefit them for their careers regardless of what
  happens in the final.
• The group represents Manchester United with a core of local players from the
  north-west of England, supplemented by the best in England and then some
  cherry-picked from European clubs at 16 – all trained and coached to thrive
  together.
• We’re proud of the way we integrate such a diverse international group into
  the cohesive group, with fantastic team spirit which anyone who has been to a
  Youth Cup game this season will have witnessed.

Innovative environment

• We are always open to new ideas and approaches to strengthen the
  Academy and its culture, enrich the experience of the young people within it,
  and provide a holistic development programme
• Pro experience loans (like work experience for Academy players)
• Paul McShane role
• Friends of the Academy
• Mental Health Awareness Month
• Games programme

Strengthening our staff

• Recruitment of top-class people is integral to maintaining a strong Academy
• We’ve improved our sports science and operations departments, and hired
  excellent coaches at age groups fans wouldn’t necessarily know about.

Close links with first team

• Few clubs have as strong a link between the Academy and the first team as
  Manchester United.
• Great that we’ve recruited a new manager in Erik ten Hag who has a proven
  commitment to developing young players, and comes from a club which has a
  very similar emphasis on youth.
• Everyone in the Academy is looking forward to working with him.

Positive outlook

• We’re in a great place having made fantastic strides over the last few years,
  but there is always further improvement which can be made.
• We remain the world leading youth development environment and the
  Academy of opportunity.
• We enrich the lives of our boys and strive to continue the long tradition of
  developing Manchester United people who can form the core of a winning first
  team.

Lots of empty words from empty suits.

Upgraded first team nutrition? What a revelation, welcome to the 90s.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Our Midfield is going to be absolute bottom tier next season if we don't get two starters in.

 

[Maticmaker]

If ETH can get 'any sort of tune' out of the present squad, in the next season or two, then fans will be overjoyed, or will they?

If ETH can do it why couldn't the rest of the managers we've had over the last 5 to 10 years, be the question? Will all the criticism and name calling dished out to the players be rescinded, will Martial, Lingard, even Pogba etc., be welcomed back with open arms, will Maguire, Rashford be reinstated as 'heroes', will McTominay and Fred be regarded as the midfield-pivot par excellence?

Its hard to imagine at this point in time, but in reality its what Erik will have to do, because he can't change things overnight and if the players collective mind set is as we are lead to believe, it seems impossible. The 'Theatre of Dreams' will become the 'Theatre of Miracles' and a delegation will be dispatched to the Vatican to press for 'living Sainthood' status (if such a status exists?) for ETH.

If ETH can't.... well lets not go there!

 

[kthanksbye]

He knows we're not going to be able to sell and replace all the players that aren't good enough, he needs this squad to be on his side, for a season or two at least, there's no way he's going to say anything else except that he's looking forward to working with them and he thinks they have a lot of potential.

Last thing he wants is a squad that's not certain of their future and don't trust him.

Don't read too much into this.

 

[devips]

He knows we're not going to be able to sell and replace all the players that aren't good enough, he needs this squad to be on his side, for a season or two at least, there's no way he's going to say anything else except that he's looking forward to working with them and he thinks they have a lot of potential.

Last thing he wants is a squad that's not certain of their future and don't trust him.

Don't read too much into this.

In short, ETH is not and does not want to be Ralf Rangnick.

 

[kthanksbye]

We won't even have the luxury of choice when it comes to selling players this window. Players like Pogba, Lingard, Cavani, Mata & Matic are as good as gone. We've already lost Greenwood. That's 6 players already. If he then starts selling the ones not good enough, we'll have to get rid of AwB, Maguire, Scott these 3 would be my first set of players who should be shown the door, the rest could still be used as squad players.

 

[Abraxas]

As I said, Rangers got to the Europa league final in 2022 same as Manchester United in 2021, both sides losing on penalties in the final which tends to suggest that both clubs are competing at the same level in Europe. Celtic spending less than half of what Manchester United spent on AWB were able to recruit wisely, introduce 9 starters and win the league comfortably. Good coaching, careful spending and building a team spirit, exactly what Manchester United have been missing for at least 9 years.
There is nothing irrelevant about it, it is an example of best practice right on our doorstep, but hey it cannot be done because we do not have the scouting knowledge, the tactical knowledge and the team spirit.
We have a knew coach, new scouts and hopefully a new team spirit. Be smart, pick up free transfers, pick up young hungry players from Holland, France, Czech republic, lower leagues, wherever. Liverpool are in the champions league final on Sunday and just signed a player from the Fulham in the championship, but no we are Manchester United and we have to pay £50- 70m for superstars who do not perform to prove how financially strong we are.
If you keep doing what you are doing you keep getting what you are getting, spending £150-£200m every July on 3 players who underwhelm and underperform is not the answer. We can easily ship out 10-15 players this summer and we need to, replace them with 8 competent professionals who want to be here and want to put some effort in. And stop worrying about players running down their contracts and wanting to leave, if they don't want to be here let them go. Chelsea are losing half their defence out of contract this season but I can almost guarantee they finish above us next season. Time for a real clear out and a real change of attitude throughout the club.

You're taking a very good one off achievement for a Scottish side and extrapolating it beyond all context. Which is what we seem to do as fans, whatever has happened most recently that is good is wonderful.

Yes, we might be at a similar performance level to Celtic or Rangers currently. No argument there, we're poor. But what happens if we drop these sides into the PL, and the CL which is ultimately our aim? Nothing good.

What this shows is there is a vast difference in expectations and standards applied. To the point that whatever those sides do is not a template. The players we need are much different so I don't see what the great point you're making is.

We all know we need to recruit better players, for better money and put together a functional team but we'll also need decisive quality eventually to bridge the gap. We're not achieving that with bargain basement buys or modelling ourselves on sides in weak leagues that play the plucky underdogs in Europe. What can we really take from their strategy? Probably only that we need a proper strategy ourselves relevant to our goals, which is not really a revolutionary idea

We could also say look at what Brentford do with their moneyball approach and how wonderful they've been. The difference is we have to do a lot more than stay up and achieve mid table.

 

[kthanksbye]

In short, ETH is not and does not want to be Ralf Rangnick.

That's correct, there's nothing wrong with learning from his predecessor's mistakes.

 

[Beachryan]

Reading the third-quarter results, it should be obvious that we're in a bit of a pickle with regards to new players coming in. Our wage bill has absolutely sky-rocketed year on year, presumably heavily due to Ronaldo but also Varane and Sancho are probably on stupid money too. At the same time, incomings have taken a hit, plus the USD fell versus the GBP up until a few months ago - so we basically don't have a ton of cash. There a positive movements on wages - a huge dip should be forthcoming with Jones/Matic/Pogba/Cavani/Mata etc all leaving, but that doesn't help the cash situation right now.

For me the key is player sales. If we can scrounge together the pennies, maybe we can afford to add another incoming player. If we can't, I dont' see where we're getting the cash to spend anywhere near 100m this off-season, without increasing debt. And given rate-rises, that'd be not great.

Hence, the briefings that the squad isn't as bad as it seems, youth are coming through and the new manager is an actual coach who should be able to get us playing better. It's kind of the financial reality we're in.

I expect a lot of faith is being put in the 'recovery' of players like Shaw, Maguire and of course Rashford - because there just isn't another option in the short term.

 

[justsomebloke]

Reading the third-quarter results, it should be obvious that we're in a bit of a pickle with regards to new players coming in. Our wage bill has absolutely sky-rocketed year on year, presumably heavily due to Ronaldo but also Varane and Sancho are probably on stupid money too. At the same time, incomings have taken a hit, plus the USD fell versus the GBP up until a few months ago - so we basically don't have a ton of cash. There a positive movements on wages - a huge dip should be forthcoming with Jones/Matic/Pogba/Cavani/Mata etc all leaving, but that doesn't help the cash situation right now.

For me the key is player sales. If we can scrounge together the pennies, maybe we can afford to add another incoming player. If we can't, I dont' see where we're getting the cash to spend anywhere near 100m this off-season, without increasing debt. And given rate-rises, that'd be not great.

Hence, the briefings that the squad isn't as bad as it seems, youth are coming through and the new manager is an actual coach who should be able to get us playing better. It's kind of the financial reality we're in.

I expect a lot of faith is being put in the 'recovery' of players like Shaw, Maguire and of course Rashford - because there just isn't another option in the short term.

I don't think that's realistic, whatever the state of the finances. Because it also isn't much of an option to go into next season with 5 players for 3 forward slots, and 2 for the central midfield pairing (or 4 for 3 midfield slots, if you prefer to look at it that way). Or 1 reasonably proven RB, if they're serious about offloading AWB, which they seem to be. I don't see how we can possibly avoid buying at least 3 players, and even that would presuppose academy promotions and we'd still have a thin squad. If the purse strings are that tight, we'd simply have to settle for less good players. There's a limit to how little depth you can have.

 

[TOPREDIAMNOT]

I think if he replaced Mcfred with two world class CM's that can actually play in their positions it would make a huge difference. Yes we need about eight more but that is going to take 2-3 years to do.

I hope for at least four in this summer. Eight out. Start the purge! I think that CM is vital.

A for our wage bill skyrocketing...

We could have offloaded Perrera, Jones (?) Cavani, Henderson + more.

It was the board that decided to keep players like Jones, Bailly, Mata, Cavani, Henderson that have hardly had a kick of a ball. That must be close to £700K a week in wages. How did Ed pass Math?

 

[georgipep]

Reading the third-quarter results, it should be obvious that we're in a bit of a pickle with regards to new players coming in. Our wage bill has absolutely sky-rocketed year on year, presumably heavily due to Ronaldo but also Varane and Sancho are probably on stupid money too. At the same time, incomings have taken a hit, plus the USD fell versus the GBP up until a few months ago - so we basically don't have a ton of cash. There a positive movements on wages - a huge dip should be forthcoming with Jones/Matic/Pogba/Cavani/Mata etc all leaving, but that doesn't help the cash situation right now.

For me the key is player sales. If we can scrounge together the pennies, maybe we can afford to add another incoming player. If we can't, I dont' see where we're getting the cash to spend anywhere near 100m this off-season, without increasing debt. And given rate-rises, that'd be not great.

Hence, the briefings that the squad isn't as bad as it seems, youth are coming through and the new manager is an actual coach who should be able to get us playing better. It's kind of the financial reality we're in.

I expect a lot of faith is being put in the 'recovery' of players like Shaw, Maguire and of course Rashford - because there just isn't another option in the short term.

And that's why transfer payments are done in tranches and not the entire amount upfront (rare exceptions, like Maguire transfer).

 

[We need an rvn]

I fail to see where is the potential in the current squad when half are going away this summer? And of those who are staying Ronaldo will be 38, De Gea will be 32, Maguire and Varane will be 30.

Who is left? Sancho, Rashford, McTominay, Fred, Dalot, Telles, Shaw, Elanga, VdB (?), Fernandes. I hope you will forgive me if I fail to see the huge potential in most of these players.

We can't replace everyone, but let's not pretend what we have is something great, because it's not (inc. "but we finished second and third with this squad). It comes across as bullshitting.

Surely you can see the potential in Sancho. He can be a huge player with the correct guidance and ETH will definitely give him that. Fernandes the same. Elanga is still very young so can see a future there too. Wouldn't mind one bit if we saw the back of shaw / telles though

 

[Alvaro Maestre]

Obviously his past is there as evidence but he’s also had good periods under the right environment. He just needs to focus more and if disciplined then there is a good player in there somewhere. It’s also not like anyone else is dying to take him off our hands and considering our shortage in forward positions, we do need him as a backup if nothing else.

Fair enough, but there were some reports that he was one of the ones stinking the dressing room and that might not go well with ETH. Anyway, I need your positive thinking in my life buddy.

 

[sunama]

Surely you can see the potential in Sancho. He can be a huge player with the correct guidance and ETH will definitely give him that. Fernandes the same. Elanga is still very young so can see a future there too. Wouldn't mind one bit if we saw the back of shaw / telles though

That's a lot of pressure that you are putting on ETH.
Remember ETH is not proven at this level and expecting him to turn players who have been mediocre this season, into world beaters would be asking a lot of Fergie, Klopp and Pep...let alone, ETH.

I really do feel that a lot of you are being unreasonable with your expectations of ETH.

 

[SirReginald]

I keep seeing this, why is last year finish false? The league finishes of this and last are stupidly similar, Its only Utd falling that pushed everybody up a place or two. Last season wasn't as mad or random as its made out to be.

Its difficult to really compare 2 seasons in a row but by your logic Liverpool failing boosted your position last season.

In terms of actual finish, your totals for last season would put you 4th this season just gone. So while you have clearly regressed a lot, the rest of the league has improved.

I’m not saying your squad is as bad as they made themselves out to be, but without major changes you could be left behind. It’ll be interesting to see how your new manager copes with this situation, it’s unique as it’s a mix structural, cultural and ability levels rolled into one. You’re quite possibly the club with the biggest problems but also the biggest opportunities as well.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

I think its a great sign that Ten Hag first wants to see first hand what he's got and who he thinks he can work with, in stead of immediately wanting to get rid of everybody and demanding a lot of new signings and immediately spend a shitload of money.

It shows he's an acutal proper football coach who wants to see how he can get the most out of people and where possible, see if he can make players better and/or get the most out of them... So that from there on he can work towards improving the area's of the squad he really feels need strengthening and getting the right players. It shows he is here for the longer run taking his time to do things right in stead of only focusing short team.

 

[We need an rvn]

That's a lot of pressure that you are putting on ETH.
Remember ETH is not proven at this level and expecting him to turn players who have been mediocre this season, into world beaters would be asking a lot of Fergie, Klopp and Pep...let alone, ETH.

I really do feel that a lot of you are being unreasonable with your expectations of ETH.

Expecting a manager of Man Utd to develop and guide players to suit his style is the minimum i expect to be perfectly honest. Speaking of Sancho alone, and given he cost circa £73m and the stats at Dortmund I was expecting a bit more if being true. I don't think the management situation helped at all though. But I am expecting a different player under ETH.

I'm not expecting ETH to develop every player into a world class player, but I am expecting a more disciplined style of with players knowing what their duties are (if the rumours are to go by, the didn't under Rag)

I also think you're disrespecting Ajax a bit too. They are the biggest club in Holland, known around the world, which comes with huge pressure. Admittedly not the same as at United, but it is still a massive job and ETH did amazing in Europe with the squad he had.

I'm not putting any pressure on him and know it will take 2-4 transfer windows to get the rotten wood out and the players that he wants in.

 

[SirAnderson]

Classic PR spinning.

You can't expect them to say "feck yeah, we're loaded and ready to spend, take us to the cleaners"

Exactly.

Or the fecked up words that got us fleeced in the market for years "Man United can do things other clubs can only dream of."

At least Murtough isn't as fecked in the head as Woodward was, when he made those comments.

 

[SirAnderson]

Lots of empty words from empty suits.

Upgraded first team nutrition? What a revelation, welcome to the 90s.

Tbf that thread earlier in the year about the team menu caused pandemonium.

 

[Daslogisch]

I think its a great sign that Ten Hag first wants to see first hand what he's got and who he thinks he can work with, in stead of immediately wanting to get rid of everybody and demanding a lot of new signings and immediately spend a shitload of money.

It shows he's an acutal proper football coach who wants to see how he can get the most out of people and where possible, see if he can make players better and/or get the most out of them... So that from there on he can work towards improving the area's of the squad he really feels need strengthening and getting the right players. It shows he is here for the longer run taking his time to do things right in stead of only focusing short team.

Well said. Also the only way to get there in the long term if you're not on cheat code transfer budgets. He needs to spend his budget wisely. Identify two or three targets beforehand (Frenkie, Timber) and then work with the squad to see which players are actually worthwhile using and where more improvements are needed and then spend the remaining budget + hopefully some added budget from players sold.

I am pretty sure Ten Hag will identify least 2/3 players that are only youth players now or already written off by the majority, that will play a much bigger role than people anticipate. I don't know which ones, could be anyone of Rashford, Dalot, Elanga or McTominay for example. Not saying they will be, but some of those players that people don't rate right now will have a bigger role under Ten Hag than expected.

 

[Revaulx]

If ETH can get 'any sort of tune' out of the present squad, in the next season or two, then fans will be overjoyed, or will they?

If ETH can do it why couldn't the rest of the managers we've had over the last 5 to 10 years, be the question? Will all the criticism and name calling dished out to the players be rescinded, will Martial, Lingard, even Pogba etc., be welcomed back with open arms, will Maguire, Rashford be reinstated as 'heroes', will McTominay and Fred be regarded as the midfield-pivot par excellence?

Its hard to imagine at this point in time, but in reality its what Erik will have to do, because he can't change things overnight and if the players collective mind set is as we are lead to believe, it seems impossible. The 'Theatre of Dreams' will become the 'Theatre of Miracles' and a delegation will be dispatched to the Vatican to press for 'living Sainthood' status (if such a status exists?) for ETH.

If ETH can't.... well lets not go there!

What I’m expecting is that the players he’s likely to get a tune out of won’t be the ones with large personal fan clubs.

If it’s Dalot, Lindelöf, Elanga or (God forbid ) McTominay and not Shaw, Bruno, Rashford or Sancho, will people be pleased or cross?

 

[Maticmaker]

What I’m expecting is that the players he’s likely to get a tune out of won’t be the ones with large personal fan clubs.

If it’s Dalot, Lindelöf, Elanga or (God forbid ) McTominay and not Shaw, Bruno, Rashford or Sancho, will people be pleased or cross?

I think at this stage everyone will be pleased, if it means the team is performing better and more consistently. Also at this stage and on a purely personal basis, I would rather take a journeyman/squad player playing regularly up to his potential, than a top player performing below their potential and/or inconsistently.

Excuses are over now! I am sure that will be one of the subtle (maybe not so subtle) messages ETH will want to get over quickly. Players are not just in the 'last chance saloon'... they are outside it struggling to get in!

 

[Revaulx]

I think at this stage everyone will be pleased, if it means the team is performing better and more consistently. Also at this stage and on a purely personal basis, I would rather take a journeyman/squad player playing regularly up to his potential, than a top player performing below their potential and/or inconsistently.

Excuses are over now! I am sure that will be one of the subtle (maybe not so subtle) messages ETH will want to get over quickly. Players are not just in the 'last chance saloon'... they are outside it struggling to get in!

At least we’re on the same page! Let’s hope plenty of others are as well, otherwise I can foretell a lot of discord on here.

ETH is going to favour hard work and an ability to follow instructions over talent or “potential”. Of that I am completely certain.

 

[Ish]

Exactly.

Or the fecked up words that got us fleeced in the market for years "Man United can do things other clubs can only dream of."

At least Murtough isn't as fecked in the head as Woodward was, when he made those comments.

Fecking Woodward

His incompetence on the footballing side was staggering.

 

[cyberman]

Its difficult to really compare 2 seasons in a row but by your logic Liverpool failing boosted your position last season.

In terms of actual finish, your totals for last season would put you 4th this season just gone. So while you have clearly regressed a lot, the rest of the league has improved.

I’m not saying your squad is as bad as they made themselves out to be, but without major changes you could be left behind. It’ll be interesting to see how your new manager copes with this situation, it’s unique as it’s a mix structural, cultural and ability levels rolled into one. You’re quite possibly the club with the biggest problems but also the biggest opportunities as well.

The lower points tally is because we had like a week off in between seasons that season that resulted in an understandably slow start from us and City. We had the first game postponed but that didn’t do us any good. Then we had second wrapped up with a good few games to go sacked off from the 3 games in 5 games mindfeck and focused on getting in Europe which we reached the final in. I’ve always said City and Utd played a lot better than the points rally showed.
my point is it wasn’t the season of madness that it’s made out to be here. Teams finished where they pretty much would every other season. It’s just that we relied on the ability to destroy teams who came on to us with pace and Bruno being unbelievable with a front 4 who scored almost 80 between them in all competitions.
Until Martial gave up, Greenwood arrested and Cavani fecked off in a huff. Added in the Shaw plus Rashford combo that was sensational that has disappeared due to injury and form. Now we have no right side, a striker who doesn’t run in behind and Sancho who comes short for the ball. It’s two different teams now which means pretending it isn’t from last year is propositions. If we had last years team in their form we wouldn’t have finished 6th imo

 

[Galactic]

The best tactic in a war is the one where no one saw it coming

 

[SWE-Chucky]

The best tactic in a war is the one where no one saw it coming

Yes, and defense.

 

[Daengophile]

I saw that about a month ago in an article as well. i look at newsnow so cant state specifically what the media source was.

That's about as clear a message as you can give.

Kitbag in the departure lounge

 

[tenpoless]

Squad bery good. We go again.

 

[roseguy64]

If ETH continues the narrative that the sqad has some kind of great potential then he is inviting even greater scrutiny if things don't go well next season (which I think most probably won't). Better to lower the expectations from the current squad and go from there.

He himself said he expects top 4 next season. So I don't think he's taking your advice.

 

[roseguy64]

I also wouldn't look too deep at quotes from the same wastemen that built this team. Of course they think what they built is mint. There's also the fact that he can't actually buy 11 first teamers. Whether or not Ronaldo, Bruno, DDG are his type of players is irrelevant, he has to use at least some of them for a year.

None of Arnold or Murtough were responsible for signing anyone currently in the first team except Murtough with Hannibal.

 

[roseguy64]

You'd think that was the case, but the club seemed to have purposefully kept them apart from meeting face to face after the Palace game. There must have been other opportunities as well but now Rangnick has left for Austria so they will have to do it over zoom.

If ETH wanted to meet Rangnick right after the game he would have.

 

[roseguy64]

The Celtic team that won the league this season had 9 starters in January who were not at the club last season. It can be done if the will is there, and Celtic spent a pittance while doing it, winning the league ahead of a Rangers side that made the Europa league final.

Sorry but it's much easier to find players of the quality needed for Celtic to compete in Scotland than it is for Man Utd to do the same in England. One big sale for Celtic can probably fund 5-8 players whereas a big sale at Utd can only get 2 players of the requisite quality.

 

[roseguy64]

I don’t think we can? While Arsenal and Spurs might have generally weaker squads than we do, neither of them are losing up to ten players in one window.

Hopefully the manger makes a difference, but a miracle worker he is not.

They don't have to lose players. We in the meanwhile have at least 32 first-team players.

No. Pos. Nation Player 1 GK ESP David de Gea 2 DF SWE Victor Lindelöf 3 DF CIV Eric Bailly 4 DF ENG Phil Jones 5 DF ENG Harry Maguire (captain)[211] 6 MF FRA Paul Pogba 7 FW POR Cristiano Ronaldo 8 MF ESP Juan Mata 10 FW ENG Marcus Rashford 11 FW ENG Mason Greenwood 14 MF ENG Jesse Lingard 17 MF BRA Fred 18 MF POR Bruno Fernandes 19 DF FRA Raphaël Varane 20 DF POR Diogo Dalot

No. Pos. Nation Player 21 FW URU Edinson Cavani 22 GK ENG Tom Heaton 23 DF ENG Luke Shaw 25 FW ENG Jadon Sancho 26 GK ENG Dean Henderson 27 DF BRA Alex Telles 29 DF ENG Aaron Wan-Bissaka 31 MF SRB Nemanja Matić 36 FW SWE Anthony Elanga 39 MF SCO Scott McTominay 46 MF TUN Hannibal Mejbri

No. Pos. Nation Player 9 FW FRA Anthony Martial (at Sevilla until 30 June 2022)[212] 15 MF BRA Andreas Pereira (at Flamengo until 30 June 2022)[213] 16 MF CIV Amad Diallo (at Rangers until 30 June 2022)[214] 28 MF URU Facundo Pellistri (at Alavés until 30 June 2022)[215] 33 DF ENG Brandon Williams (at Norwich City until 30 June 2022)[216]

No. Pos. Nation Player 34 MF NED Donny van de Beek (at Everton until 30 June 2022)[217] 37 MF ENG James Garner (at Nottingham Forest until 30 June 2022)[218] 38 DF ENG Axel Tuanzebe (at Napoli until 30 June 2022)[219]

We can ignore Pellistri and Garner from the list. I've also not included Shoretire and Garnacho. Lee Grant was also not included in the list making it 33.

Lingard, Cavani, Grant and Matic are definitely gone. Pogba and Mata look to not be renewing. Bailly, Jones, Henderson, Tuanzebe, Pereira and Martial apparently want out. And we know Greenwood's issue.

That's 13 players and we still have 20 first team players left not including Garner who will likely be included to make it 21. Without signing anyone.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Depresses me that some around the club think because we finished 2nd 2 seasons ago it means we’re capable of doing amazing things with the current squad.

As if last season can just be put down as a fluke and under-performers are allowed yet another chance.

If we sit on our hands this summer and don’t reinforce meaningfully, it’s the clearest indication yet of how things won’t actually change until the owners go.

 

[elnorte]

Well said. Also the only way to get there in the long term if you're not on cheat code transfer budgets. He needs to spend his budget wisely. Identify two or three targets beforehand (Frenkie, Timber) and then work with the squad to see which players are actually worthwhile using and where more improvements are needed and then spend the remaining budget + hopefully some added budget from players sold.

I am pretty sure Ten Hag will identify least 2/3 players that are only youth players now or already written off by the majority, that will play a much bigger role than people anticipate. I don't know which ones, could be anyone of Rashford, Dalot, Elanga or McTominay for example. Not saying they will be, but some of those players that people don't rate right now will have a bigger role under Ten Hag than expected.

Yep, and they'll still be shite.

 

[Kag]

They don't have to lose players. We in the meanwhile have at least 32 first-team players.

No. Pos. Nation Player 1 GK ESP David de Gea 2 DF SWE Victor Lindelöf 3 DF CIV Eric Bailly 4 DF ENG Phil Jones 5 DF ENG Harry Maguire (captain)[211] 6 MF FRA Paul Pogba 7 FW POR Cristiano Ronaldo 8 MF ESP Juan Mata 10 FW ENG Marcus Rashford 11 FW ENG Mason Greenwood 14 MF ENG Jesse Lingard 17 MF BRA Fred 18 MF POR Bruno Fernandes 19 DF FRA Raphaël Varane 20 DF POR Diogo Dalot

No. Pos. Nation Player 21 FW URU Edinson Cavani 22 GK ENG Tom Heaton 23 DF ENG Luke Shaw 25 FW ENG Jadon Sancho 26 GK ENG Dean Henderson 27 DF BRA Alex Telles 29 DF ENG Aaron Wan-Bissaka 31 MF SRB Nemanja Matić 36 FW SWE Anthony Elanga 39 MF SCO Scott McTominay 46 MF TUN Hannibal Mejbri

No. Pos. Nation Player 9 FW FRA Anthony Martial (at Sevilla until 30 June 2022)[212] 15 MF BRA Andreas Pereira (at Flamengo until 30 June 2022)[213] 16 MF CIV Amad Diallo (at Rangers until 30 June 2022)[214] 28 MF URU Facundo Pellistri (at Alavés until 30 June 2022)[215] 33 DF ENG Brandon Williams (at Norwich City until 30 June 2022)[216]

No. Pos. Nation Player 34 MF NED Donny van de Beek (at Everton until 30 June 2022)[217] 37 MF ENG James Garner (at Nottingham Forest until 30 June 2022)[218] 38 DF ENG Axel Tuanzebe (at Napoli until 30 June 2022)[219]

We can ignore Pellistri and Garner from the list. I've also not included Shoretire and Garnacho. Lee Grant was also not included in the list making it 33.

Lingard, Cavani, Grant and Matic are definitely gone. Pogba and Mata look to not be renewing. Bailly, Jones, Henderson, Tuanzebe, Pereira and Martial apparently want out. And we know Greenwood's issue.

That's 13 players and we still have 20 first team players left not including Garner who will likely be included to make it 21. Without signing anyone.

Nice list. The issue is that the existing 21 aren’t good enough.

 

[Jibbs]

He's hardly going to come out and say 'All my players are shite except Ronaldo is he?

This is why Ragnick left. They simply don’t want to shake things up here.

 

[Orange Tree]

This is why Rangnick left. They simply don’t want to shake this up here.

Pretty much. They don't see eye to eye.
Rangnick pointed out how shit our squad is, and the board replied, that we got second last season, squad can't be that bad.

Board will push Ronaldo and Rashford to ETH, just like how they pushed Ronaldo to Ole. Let's just hope that ETH can make it work.