Investors are betting on Robotics/Optimus.
Musk
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Investors are betting on Robotics/Optimus.
He’s not really a trillionaire though, is he? He’s not going to sell his stocks so it’s meaningless
And he if did, it wouldn't sell for that value. Nowhere near. Estimating stock value based on the last share sold is meaningless at such large scale.
Does that matter that much when he can still borrow against it? While it’s unrealised gains he doesn’t have to pay a capital gains tax, and instead can borrow against it with far lower interest rates. Didn’t the Glazers borrow against their own assets to buy Manchester United? Or maybe I got that confused I’m too lazy to look into it. Obviously he could never sell all of his stocks at once without crashing the price, but how many billionaires have their billions in cash and not assets?
Certainly no one approaching Musk levels of wealth are ever going to have it that way, it’s too ridiculous a number. You could spend a million every hour of every day and still need more than a century to blow through it.
Even borrowing is still not free money though, is it? Lower interest rates or not, it's something that he must pay back, no?
It depends how you define free money. I want to avoid paying those nasty capital gains taxes, the money is mine, mine. So I take out a loan against my assets with said far lower interest rate. All I have to do is make the interest payments. I don’t have to pay off the principal. I don’t even have to pay it off during my lifetime. Buy, borrow, die. In the US upon your death any unrealised capital gains are wiped out for CGT purposes.
With the assets I have, my credit line can always be expanded. I can even take out another loan to pay off my initial loan if I want. If I feel like buying a huge social media company, I can borrow billions to do so.
Not paying the principal seems funky to me. If I loan 100k I also still have to give back 100k after interest payments.
Is what you are describing genuinely how the US system works?
Eventually the 100k needs to be paid back, but the goal isn’t to not pay back the loans, it’s to avoid CGT. With regards to the 100k, after fulfilling the die in buy, borrow, die, my heir gets something like 20 million which is exempt from an estate tax (I think it’s around that number) so they can pay off the principal. There’s ways to avoid the rest of the estate tax too.
If the appreciation and interest on his assets are higher than his borrowing rates (which they will be by some distance), he's in the realms of negative real interest.
Once you accumulate a certain amount of wealth, all the rules which apply to the rest of us either cease to exist or go into reverse. It's like leaving the atmosphere in a rocket, ironically. The laws of nature that apply to the rest of Earth's population stop affecting you.
Bolded: why borrow then? He'd earn more by not taking out a loan and having to pay a borrowing rate. His assets are already making money.
Avoiding capital gains tax seems more relevant here. Interesting topic, I'll try to dive into it a bit deeper later.
@VorZakone - Money work differently once you raech a certain level of wealth.
How The Buy, Borrow, Die Strategy Helps The Wealthy Cut Taxes
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidr...row-die-strategy-helps-the-wealthy-cut-taxes/
How The Buy, Borrow, Die Strategy Helps The Wealthy Cut Taxes
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidr...row-die-strategy-helps-the-wealthy-cut-taxes/
Its not just avoiding captial gains tax, although that is a big part of it, its never paying tax on appreciating assets so that offsets the borrowing rate.
https://dcfpi.org/all/how-wealthy-h...egy-to-avoid-taxes-on-their-growing-fortunes/
I appreciate it's slightly different on personal money, but companies deliberately go into debt all the time to offset gains and save a lot of money on profit taxes by doing so. At a personal level, it's the same but savings on different taxes. It's why declared profits / gains are meaningless as they do everything they can to minimise them.
More censorship. Is there a genocide that Elon Musk recognises? apart from the forever "white genocide" obviously.
spacex now almost half its peak..currently at 115, down from its post IPO peak of 225 a month ago.
Morningstar put the fair price at 60-70 before the IPO. Could possibly be the only analysts that may come out of this with some credibility intact
Who'd have seen that coming???!!!!!
If I knew how to short it, I would.
google SSPC - its an ETF that shorts SPCX.
Yeah, I've heard about them. I'm a little bit uneasy about how they work, because they reset daily, so a long-term decline in SPCX may not translate cleanly into a gain for the ETF. Wouldn't put that much into it, but maybe an amount I wouldn't be uncomfortable losing.
tesla down 15%....looks like the dodgy accounting to inflate its worth using spacex shares is now biting them on the arse.
Toyota trades at a PE of 10, Tesla shouldn't be valued at 300+. Musk promises the moon and doesn't deliver near to the promises. Been promising FSD for about 10 years at this point.
He's the biggest bullshit artist of all time.
Plus BYD and other Chinese companies are killing it. Better cars in pretty much every aspect.
Just seen the interview with The Economist where she calls him out on his civil war bullshit.
He then, without any sense of irony, accuses HER of living a privileged life! Just pathetic.
He then, without any sense of irony, accuses HER of living a privileged life! Just pathetic.
Another car crash interview, he comes accross extremely stupid or it's all the drugs taking its toll.
The bloke is an idiot.
Does he believe the shit he says? Zero. Zero point Zero.
Journalists give him too much credit. He’s as intelligent on these topics as a single braincell incel. That line of questioning was good.
He will shortly start rumors to merge SpaceX and Tesla to inflate the stock prices.
Can this turd just overdose already
This is what happens when someone other than Joe Rogan "interviews" him.
I can’t fecking stand his voice and face.
He’s such a sad little loser. One of the most revolting people I’ve ever seen.
I just saw a "conservative" content creator state that Musk owned that british reporter. Elon Musk is one of the dumb sounding orator that I have ever been "forced" to hear, he has never said anything remotely insightful.
The reason he is loathed is because in the same interview he claimed that money would become meaningless due to abondance of resources created by robots. Now the question is who is owning these robots and do they operate these robots at zero cost? And do they intend to subsidise the product of these robots and share it for free? Why was it a big deal when he became a "trillionaire"? Why is he hiding the full extent of the debt of his current activities alongside the rest of the Big 5 tech companies?
The reason he is loathed is because in the same interview he claimed that money would become meaningless due to abondance of resources created by robots. Now the question is who is owning these robots and do they operate these robots at zero cost? And do they intend to subsidise the product of these robots and share it for free? Why was it a big deal when he became a "trillionaire"? Why is he hiding the full extent of the debt of his current activities alongside the rest of the Big 5 tech companies?
Money will only have a chance to become meaningless when and if we’re able to combine ai and robotics with effectively limitless energy.
Even then, a huge question mark on how to transition to such a society.
Scarcity of other resources will probably keep capitalism in play.
Even then, a huge question mark on how to transition to such a society.
Scarcity of other resources will probably keep capitalism in play.
"and look at that guy with his turkish hair plugs and laminated face"
Odious little prick. I didn’t like him even when he was in his peak respectability era meeting with Obama and appearing in Rick and Morty, Iron Man, etc. Always thought he was a fraud. Never heard anything intelligent come from that edgelord’s mouth.
Just a shame that a man like that is the richest human in history.
Just a shame that a man like that is the richest human in history.