Also even in the 80s and early 90s and even in Europe, didn't many of the Belgian international players play for clubs in Belgium, many of the Yugoslavia international players play for clubs in Yugoslavia etc. A completely different landscape then, but I agree it's utterly ridiculous to criticise Pele for not playing in Europe, when that ignores the context of his era.
My feelings and sadness towards the europeans' disdain for the Club World Cup
- Thread starter matbezlima
- Start date
The standard of teams the European Champions play against in the CWC is why people don't give a feck about it (unless it's you're team in it).
Yeah and then it's fecking pointless...
Fun fact most people might not know, several of those early Santos title wins were in something called the Taca Brasil, which was effectively a knockout tournament, and Santos entered at the semi final stage in at least the first two of their run of title wins. The first one (1962), they only played 5 games and one of those was a playoff after Santos and Botafogo had won a leg each. They have only in recent times used away goals frequently across South America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_Campeonato_Brasileiro_Série_A
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_Campeonato_Brasileiro_Série_A
I was going to add a comment but I think you covered it all here. Might as well close the thread now
The competition is nothing more but FIFA stroking their ego and competing in it is the price you pay for winning the Champions League.
Why should clubs care about it? They're forced to travel to Asia in December which means their schedule gets shifted which is more fatigue. Why should the competition have any prestige? Europe and S-America play two games to win, Asia and N-America have to win 3 games and Oceania (CAF doesn't allow me to use the acronym) 4 games, starting with a match against the host who've done nothing to earn a place in the competition. Possible champion of the world because Qatar bribed FIFA the most?
It's hands down the worst competition there is out there. Nothing more than FIFA using clubs as a plaything.
Why should clubs care about it? They're forced to travel to Asia in December which means their schedule gets shifted which is more fatigue. Why should the competition have any prestige? Europe and S-America play two games to win, Asia and N-America have to win 3 games and Oceania (CAF doesn't allow me to use the acronym) 4 games, starting with a match against the host who've done nothing to earn a place in the competition. Possible champion of the world because Qatar bribed FIFA the most?
It's hands down the worst competition there is out there. Nothing more than FIFA using clubs as a plaything.
Everyone outside Europe would notice and be insulted by its cancellation. It has always been highly valued here, did you read everything that I wrote?
Very good comment. Some of us south-americans should stop putting the CWC as being even more important than Libertadores. Winning Libertadores is already fantastic and doesn't need more.
It's sad that south-american clubs not only can not keep their best players as they used to, but are also increasingly tactically behind aside from coaches such as Marcelo Gallardo or foreign coaches such as Jorge Jesus. The problem of european clubs stripping south-american clubs of their best talents started in the mid 80s, but throughot the entire 90s the top south-american clubs could still give the top european clubs a great game and win, such the amazing São Paulo that dominated and beat Barcelona's Dream Team in 1992 and received high praise by Cruyff after the match, calling São Paulo deserved world champions. Vélez in 94 too. Virtually all the Intercontinental Cup finals in the 90s were tight and close, many great players still stayed playing in South America for a good time of time before going to Europe. I'm honestly baffled that United supporters here don't care about their 1-0 victory over a great Palmeiras team in the 1999 Intercontinental Cup, the top south-american teams back then were still strong!
But things quickly worsened in the 2000s until in the 2010s the games between the top european teams against the top south-american teams became almost always men vs. boys.
CWC has a nice badge and gets publicity around the world for European clubs that win it which in turn brings in money. Money used to keep or buy players for a good CL run. In five or less years I wouldn’t remember who Liverpool beat in the final sorry to say. It was nice to win and to watch after years without winning it but it wouldn’t bother me at all if it was dropped or we didn’t win it. Sorry
You can be sure that if Flamengo had won it, there would be many of people on the streets of the capitals celebration, surely millions of people in Rio de Janeiro would euphorically celebrate the trophy with the players and it would be regarded as one of the greatest victories and trophies in the club's history. We still sing and celebrate all the time the 3-0 victory over Liverpool in 1981. Bob Paisley recognized Flamengo as a great team and deeply disliked his own players' performances. But I admit that those were other times. Flamengo probably was truly the best team in the world in 1981. Flamengo's players were also angry at the Liverpool players disdain for the competition and, above all, at Liverpool's players saying that they didn't know Flamengo. This really got under Flamengo's skin and they played the match determined to destroy Liverpool and make Liverpool's players know Flamengo, as it happened. Liverpool was very badly outplayed and outclassed and Zico had a masterclass, he was probably the best player in the world in 1981.
Perhaps the Club World Cup is not taken seriously because of the gap in quality among the teams.
It would be no loss if the tournament was scrapped personally.
It would be no loss if the tournament was scrapped personally.
After Utd won this competition in 2008, I'm seem to remember Ronaldo saying that he had then won everything with the club, suggesting that he thought it was a worthwhile competition.
In 2008/2009, when Utd were top the of league, had already won the league cup and had their FA Cup and Champions League semi-finals approaching, I'm sure the media were talking about them possibly winning a quintuple (counting the Club World Cup win) rather than a quadruple.
In 2008/2009, when Utd were top the of league, had already won the league cup and had their FA Cup and Champions League semi-finals approaching, I'm sure the media were talking about them possibly winning a quintuple (counting the Club World Cup win) rather than a quadruple.
well it’s never been anything more than a friendly in my lifetime.
when Utd took the season off of the FA Cup, that was meant to be some sort of restart, but it turned out to be a damp squib.
it might be important outside of Europe. But all the best teams and the best players play in the CL, and that’s the pinnacle - this competition is no more than an exhibition match. It’s not exciting, and it has no prestige.
I completely agree!Now, this I agree with. I love the Club World Cup! One of my first thoughts after United winning the CL in 2008 was that FINALLY I was going to see United compete for the World Champions title
Love the competition, loved competing in it, loved winning it and loved being able to call ourselves the world champions. Back in 2008, Fergie and the rest of the team took it seriously at the time as well.
Oh, and I loved the badge we got to wear for winning it, too:
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When Argentina won the world cup in 1978, only one player in the squad played in Europe. (Kempes).
In that era, if you didn't play in South America, you virtually had no chance of playing for the national team. Even Falco (Roma) was only brought into the Brazilian squad late as Cerezo was suspended for the first game of game of the 1982 world cup.
I agree with the general consensus from posters here. Another thing, in England in particular, is that December is already way to busy for the teams. When Spanish teams win the Champions League at least they enter the tournament knowing that it is the last games they play that year. Liverpool had to fly back to England and have two games during Christmas after winning the CWC. The intensity of the Premier League makes the tournament especially redundant in England.
Didn't Liverpool take their full first team to Qatar and play a shadow side against Aston Villa in order to do so, getting smashed 5-0. Or have I got it mixed up? Feels like it all happened about ten years ago already...
Surely if they did, that represents taking it very seriously. There was a massive hoo-ha over them essentially throwing a domestic game, and they risked getting into real trouble for it.
Speaking for myself, I'm a European (sadly now only in a footballing and geographical sense) who would bloody love to watch my team play in a Club World Cup again. It's obviously not as significant as the Champions League. But I think the very difficulty of getting there in the first place, and the chance to play teams which you cannot meet in any other competition and could easily never play again, make it really special.
Surely if they did, that represents taking it very seriously. There was a massive hoo-ha over them essentially throwing a domestic game, and they risked getting into real trouble for it.
Speaking for myself, I'm a European (sadly now only in a footballing and geographical sense) who would bloody love to watch my team play in a Club World Cup again. It's obviously not as significant as the Champions League. But I think the very difficulty of getting there in the first place, and the chance to play teams which you cannot meet in any other competition and could easily never play again, make it really special.
The difference was in that the quality was more evenly spread throughout different continents (alright, only between Europe and South America). Players like Pelé, Garrincha, Figueroa, Zico etc. used to stay in their home league until the 80's, when suddenly Serie A became the pinnacle of the world's football. There were some exceptions like Tele Santana's São Paulo with Cafu and Cerezo that beat Barca & AC Milan in 2 respective finals, but that was probably the last time where it held any real significance for Europeans. And it's not going to change until you'll manage to get the best South American players to stay at their home leagues.
They were already a million points clear in the league. If they were neck and neck with someone for the title, I would think they'd have sent the kids to Qatar.
For me, Club world cup sits in the same area but slightly above as Charity Shield or Super Cup. nice to win it but I don't really care all that much.
I'd rather win the League Cup.
You are being generous at least the Charity Shield and Super Cup are evenly matched.
I don't care about it because it's just not being broadcast or given much PR in Europe.
That being said, I would have absolutely loved a Team World Cup in the identical format of the World Cup. Including qualifying runs over a full calendar year, once every 4 years over 14 days in a host country. I would have watched that just as hard as i watch the world cup.
Unfortunately it's just not practical since the schedules are already way full.
That being said, I would have absolutely loved a Team World Cup in the identical format of the World Cup. Including qualifying runs over a full calendar year, once every 4 years over 14 days in a host country. I would have watched that just as hard as i watch the world cup.
Unfortunately it's just not practical since the schedules are already way full.
Surely you understand that this will always be the case for teams with less quality. For example, winning the Cup winners Cup is still seen as a massive moment in United’s history, despite us going on to win far greater trophies.
But the Villa game was a League Cup match, not a PL match, and they got (spectacularly) knocked out as a result, no? Effectively Klopp prioritised the CWC over the LC. Which would seem to refute the OP's allegation that they didn't take the CWC seriously.
Interesting, anyway. Personally I would place the CWC above the League Cup (although obviously well below the FA Cup), just because it is so rare to even get the chance to compete in it.
Say what you want on the matter, there's no excuse for the contempt shown by Real Madrid towards Grêmio in 2017.
That was the most disgusting display of arrogance for a competition I've ever seen. It was like "we are so superior to you that we'd be ashamed to celebrate this trophy". In fact, most players took their medals right away and didn't even smirk.
And all that display of superiority in a game that they won in a fluke set piece.
Nobody in their right mind thinks the South American teams are better than the Europeans, but they deserve a chance to defeat the Europeans for the title of World Champion, simple like that. Many European teams tried their best and eventually lost because this is football we're talking about.
The title has worth and yes, the arrogance displayed by (not all) European clubs is a win win situation. If they win, it was because they're just too good. If they lose, it's because they didn't care. Childish and anti sportsmanship attitude really.
That was the most disgusting display of arrogance for a competition I've ever seen. It was like "we are so superior to you that we'd be ashamed to celebrate this trophy". In fact, most players took their medals right away and didn't even smirk.
And all that display of superiority in a game that they won in a fluke set piece.
Nobody in their right mind thinks the South American teams are better than the Europeans, but they deserve a chance to defeat the Europeans for the title of World Champion, simple like that. Many European teams tried their best and eventually lost because this is football we're talking about.
The title has worth and yes, the arrogance displayed by (not all) European clubs is a win win situation. If they win, it was because they're just too good. If they lose, it's because they didn't care. Childish and anti sportsmanship attitude really.
São Paulo defeated giants from Spain, Italy and England in the world finals.
Also has a positive record against Real Madrid.
As far as I'm concerned, we're the best club in the world.
I love the idea of this competition although sadly it's probably redundant now due to Europe hoovering up the world's talent.
Not too long ago it was reasonably competitive. When Man Utd and Real Madrid went to the first one, we ended up with an all Brazilian final. We've also seen Barcelona, Liverpool and Chelsea all lose to Brazilian opposition in the final and a number of occasions where the European side has needed extra time to win (including Barca scoring a last minute equaliser against Estudiantes to force ET if I recall correctly).
Granted it took Liverpool ET to beat Flamengo by a solitary goal, I think now the gap between Europe and the rest is too big. In fact we have seen the south American sides losing to African and Asian sides in recent years.
To truly call yourself the world's best though I can't help but think you should still do it on the pitch in a competition that is potentially open to everyone. It's probably the best solution and it's ok as it is since there is minimal impact on the European team - they only have to play 2 games. I actually would like to see it hosted in Europe to get two European teams in it.
When Man Utd withdrew from the FA Cup, I've always thought they should have done what Liverpool did and at least sent the kids - with it being the 3rd round chances are they'd have won anyway if they drew a lower league side.
Not too long ago it was reasonably competitive. When Man Utd and Real Madrid went to the first one, we ended up with an all Brazilian final. We've also seen Barcelona, Liverpool and Chelsea all lose to Brazilian opposition in the final and a number of occasions where the European side has needed extra time to win (including Barca scoring a last minute equaliser against Estudiantes to force ET if I recall correctly).
Granted it took Liverpool ET to beat Flamengo by a solitary goal, I think now the gap between Europe and the rest is too big. In fact we have seen the south American sides losing to African and Asian sides in recent years.
To truly call yourself the world's best though I can't help but think you should still do it on the pitch in a competition that is potentially open to everyone. It's probably the best solution and it's ok as it is since there is minimal impact on the European team - they only have to play 2 games. I actually would like to see it hosted in Europe to get two European teams in it.
When Man Utd withdrew from the FA Cup, I've always thought they should have done what Liverpool did and at least sent the kids - with it being the 3rd round chances are they'd have won anyway if they drew a lower league side.
European teams are so much better then the South American and asian or African teams that it gives them no motivation to really win. Even the league cup has more value for them and I don't blame them. Its a Micky mouse cup that takes place in the middle of the season and if a team is in the middle of a title fight they have no reason to care for it.
The gap is way too big atm and for the foreseeable future.
The gap is way too big atm and for the foreseeable future.