The cavs without him were good but they were not the second best option, they were one of the few good teams.There is no way he would come back if Love and Kyrie weren't there. He knew it would give him a big chance. They became pretty much the favourites, but no one saw Warriors coming.
Not sure about Kyrie leaving, Pippen was also supposed to be traded at one point, but Jordan stopped it. Kevin Love looks a shadow of a player he was. Anyway, in all this debate, I just can't put together him going to the best possible option and ending up with no help talk.
Think they were bookies favourites at the time. Certainly a top 3 team, people forget how good Love was.The cavs without him were good but they were not the second best option, they were one of the few good teams.
You mean this series? None. That's why he is leaving. Again.Again if you think he did not have help, point out two cav players who had a good series without deflecting to events which happened four years in the past.
They were the bookies favourites before Lebron joined? Yeah, I would like to ask for a source for that.Think they were bookies favourites at the time. Certainly a top 3 team, people forget how good Love was.
You mean this series? None. That's why he is leaving. Again.
So you are sick and tired of the narrative he doesnt have support but also think no other cav player had a good series? That makes sense.Whichever he chooses, sick and tired of the narrative he doesn't have support. Spent last 8 years picking a team which will give him the best chance.
http://bookmaker-info.com/en/2014-2015_nbaThey were the bookies favourites before Lebron joined? Yeah, I would like to ask for a source for that.
I am questioning how this team end up so bad from bookies favourites or whether he elevates them enough. Don't know what is so hard to get. Jordan had better support, he never faced Warriors, etc... Well, he also didn't pick another team which could give him a better chance.So you are sick and tired of the narrative he doesnt have support but also think no other cav player had a good series? That makes sense.
Before lebron joined, not after.http://bookmaker-info.com/en/2014-2015_nba
Google it. Not the only page.
I am questioning how this team end up so bad from bookies favourites or whether he elevates them enough. Don't know what is so hard to get. Jordan had better support, he never faced Warriors, etc... Well, he also didn't pick another team which could give him a better chance.
They became bookies favourites when Love and LeBron joined in. No Love, no LeBron. The year before the favourites was Heat, but Wade and Bosh also declined.Before lebron joined, not after.
They were second best with kyrie, fhay trade screwed the team over and love declined. What's so hard to get ahout that.
Well it's not strange if you believe that he is a major reason why they look so good.They became bookies favourites when Love and LeBron joined in. No Love, no LeBron. The year before the favourites was Heat, but Wade and Bosh also declined.
Seems to me everyone looks shit after he lefts them and great before that. That's not hard to get, it's just a bit strange.
I am questioning the state of the team left behind him.Well it's not strange if you believe that he is a major reason why they look so good.
Can you explain this a bit? Don't know much about it. Gilbert was afraid of LeBron leaving anyway as a free agent this year, so he made the trade because of that? Irving looked to me like the guy who wanted the move and not play with LeBron anymore.Then the Kyrie trade happened -entirely because of Dan Gilbert being afraid of LeBron leaving next season-, bombed, and he was back to having no support
Nobody was talking about LeBron fighting against the odds after he went to Miami. And the 2014 finals, we only found out how bad that supporting cast had become by then because LeBron was the best player in those finals and the heat got wiped off the face of the earth.@giorno that are all fair points, but still that Heat team didn't suppose to decline so quickly. He personally screamed in the air about 5,6 championships or some other bollocks when he joined them (made them looked pretty stupid when they lost to Dallas the very next season). Spurs kept going with most of their main stars well over 30. Jordan Bulls weren't so young anymore in 1997 and 1998. You could see how Pippen looked the season after in Rockets.
And if Kyrie and Love don't get injured or Durant doesn't go to the Warriors, LeBron probably would have won 3 or 4 titles in a row. LeBron wasn't always lacking support. He was in first stint on the Cavs, and he was the final year in Miami, and he was this seasonHe is changing the team now for the third time to get optimum conditions of winning the title and for that reason, I don't buy the whole narrative about him fighting against the odds or not having so much support. Those two things just don't go together.
LeBron wanted Griffin to get a new contract, Griffin had apparently succeded in trading for George(don't remember why that didn't happen in the end), then rumors got to Kyrie that 1) the cavs were open about trading him and 2) LeBron might leave anyways, which would have left him stranded on a team with little upside. So he pushed for a trade. LeBron felt like the relationship between them wasn't irreparable, Griffin(by then out of the organization) has gone on record saying the same. Instead Gilbert was so afraid of LeBron walking and of getting nothing that the moment the #8 pick got offered, he decided to go through with it instead of waiting and see whether it was possible to either change Kyrie's mind, or maybe get a better offer. The cavs has 6 months to deal with the Irving situation, but Gilbert choose to deal him away at the first offer because he could get a post-LeBron building piece(#8 pick) in exchangeCan you explain this a bit? Don't know much about it. Gilbert was afraid of LeBron leaving anyway as a free agent this year, so he made the trade because of that? Irving looked to me like the guy who wanted the move and not play with LeBron anymore.
They shouldn't be wiped off. The reasoning in which Duncan and Ginobili at 38/37 are not declining, but Bosh, Wade just over 30 are doesn't make any sense. They lost the competitive drive and hunger. It is damn hard to win 3 in a row, only a few teams could. That team should have won more and for a longer period of time considering it's supporting cast. Those were expectations when they came together after all.And the 2014 finals, we only found out how bad that supporting cast had become by then because LeBron was the best player in those finals and the heat got wiped off the face of the earth.
And if LeBron is on the West for his whole career he goes to a lot fewer finals. But, it is what it is. Anyway, I give you that first stint in the Cavs and this last season, but no way that last year in Miami.And if Kyrie and Love don't get injured or Durant doesn't go to the Warriors, LeBron probably would have won 3 or 4 titles in a row. LeBron wasn't always lacking support. He was in first stint on the Cavs, and he was the final year in Miami, and he was this season
Basically, if LeBron made assurances he would stay and opposed to Kyrie leaving the trade wouldn't happen?LeBron wanted Griffin to get a new contract, Griffin had apparently succeded in trading for George(don't remember why that didn't happen in the end), then rumors got to Kyrie that 1) the cavs were open about trading him and 2) LeBron might leave anyways, which would have left him stranded on a team with little upside. So he pushed for a trade. LeBron felt like the relationship between them wasn't irreparable, Griffin(by then out of the organization) has gone on record saying the same. Instead Gilbert was so afraid of LeBron walking and of getting nothing that the moment the #8 pick got offered, he decided to go through with it instead of waiting and see whether it was possible to either change Kyrie's mind, or maybe get a better offer. The cavs has 6 months to deal with the Irving situation, but Gilbert choose to deal him away at the first offer because he could get a post-LeBron building piece(#8 pick) in exchange
Yes, the expectation was that that team would last longer, but it didn't. Why is that LeBron's fault? And keep in mind the first game was competitive until the faulty AC caused LeBron to cramp up ans forced him to sit out the last 5 minutes. In those 5 minutes without LeBron, the Spurs blew the Heat off the court. Without a faulty AC, the heat might taken game 1, and given they won game 2, it might have been a completely different seriesThey shouldn't be wiped off. The reasoning in which Duncan and Ginobili at 38/37 are not declining, but Bosh, Wade just over 30 are doesn't make any sense. They lost the competitive drive and hunger. It is damn hard to win 3 in a row, only a few teams could. That team should have won more and for a longer period of time considering it's supporting cast. Those were expectations when they came together after all.
It shouldn't have, but it was, and LeBron was the only Heat being as good as he was supposed to beAnd if LeBron is on the West for his whole career he goes to a lot fewer finals. But, it is what it is. Anyway, I give you that first stint in the Cavs and this last season, but no way that last year in Miami.
Had LeBeon given assurances he would have stayed on, Kyrie might have been traded anyways, but Gilbert probably doesn't bite on that offer, they wait to see how the situation evolves. That said, Gilbert is a notoriously poor owner who meddles too much while being an incompetent foolBasically, if LeBron made assurances he would stay and opposed to Kyrie leaving the trade wouldn't happen?
LeBron should have been good since his ass was unbelievably saved by the lucky rebound and crazy Allen 3-point shot the year before. The year where he wasn't that great in the final. If LeBron is the leader of that team and he is (although funny enough there was a legitimate debate about Wade or LeBron being the leaders of the team considering it was Wade who most of the time took the ball when there was a deciding shot) then he should have done more for the dynasty. You know like other great players (Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe) did.Yes, the expectation was that that team would last longer, but it didn't. Why is that LeBron's fault? And keep in mind the first game was competitive until the faulty AC caused LeBron to cramp up ans forced him to sit out the last 5 minutes. In those 5 minutes without LeBron, the Spurs blew the Heat off the court. Without a faulty AC, the heat might taken game 1, and given they won game 2, it might have been a completely different series
The heat traded for Dragic miseason and won 37 games, missing the playoffs, the following season. Why is that LBJ's fault?
It shouldn't have, but it was, and LeBron was the only Heat being as good as he was supposed to be
I think 76ers with him have an outside chance of matching Warriors if everything goes right for them and by that I mean Embiid stays healthy, Simmons learns to shoot mid-range at least, Fultz remembers how he used to take jumpers correctly and their rotation players don't make stupid mistakes (see Covington's shot selection in playoffs). They'd still be like 1/4 underdogs against Warriors though, easily.As for LeBron, I'd really like that his move makes his new team a genuine contender. 76ers and Spurs seem ideal from this point of view. Some time ago Cowherd made a good point that had Durant gone to the Wizards we'd have had 6-7 teams going for the title rather than 2-3. If Lebron goes to the Celtics or Rockets nothing will really change in terms of competition.
Nah. Not for the next year.I think 76ers with him have an outside chance of matching Warriors if everything goes right for them and by that I mean Embiid stays healthy, Simmons learns to shoot mid-range at least, Fultz remembers how he used to take jumpers correctly and their rotation players don't make stupid mistakes (see Covington's shot selection in playoffs). They'd still be like 1/4 underdogs against Warriors though, easily.
He won't go to Boston, I don't even consider that as possibility. They'd probably need to send Kyrie Irving back to Cavs for that to work under the cap.
Really? I'd say he would make (almost) every team in the East a contender, i.e. going to the Finals.I think that the only team he will make a contender are San Antonio (Houston already are), and Lakers if both George and one of CP3/Boogie joins them too.
Losing 4-0 in the finals is hardly becoming a contender.Really? I'd say he would make (almost) every team in the East a contender, i.e. going to the Finals.
Stricly talking about the West, he'd be on par with Houston if he went to Portland or Utah for example, I'd say. He's just that good.
I think if Sixers get LeBron they will also bring Kawhi. They have so many assets to throw at Spurs that nobody can compete with them.Nah. Not for the next year.
Simmons shat his pants on the playoffs, and while he will improve, he isn't really (yet) a Championship level player, and to some degree the same stands for Embiid. And Fultz won't be that good in his first season.
I think that the only team he will make a contender are San Antonio (Houston already are), and Lakers if both George and one of CP3/Boogie joins them too.
That changes the discussion. Those two + Simmons and Embiid are Golden State level.I think if Sixers get LeBron they will also bring Kawhi. They have so many assets to throw at Spurs that nobody can compete with them.
Now that would be a contender. How does that work out cap wise, though?I think if Sixers get LeBron they will also bring Kawhi. They have so many assets to throw at Spurs that nobody can compete with them.
No problem at all. They will need to match Kawhi's salary. He will make $20M next year. If this trade is made then Covington definitely goes the opposite direction ($10.4M) and probably Fultz gets used as another asset, he makes $8.3M. Then they either offer whoever they pick at 10 (Mikal Bridges, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton?) and the salaries match, or offer future picks plus one of the fringe players (Holmes, TLC, Anderson) and it also works under the cap.Now that would be a contender. How does that work out cap wise, though?
And adding LeBron on a max on top of that is no problem either? Wow. That's the process for you!No problem at all. They will need to match Kawhi's salary. He will make $20M next year. If this trade is made then Covington definitely goes the opposite direction ($10.4M) and probably Fultz gets used as another asset, he makes $8.3M. Then they either offer whoever they pick at 10 (Mikal Bridges, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton?) and the salaries match, or offer future picks plus one of the fringe players (Holmes, TLC, Anderson) and it also works under the cap.
Basically they are in perfect situation to acquire Kawhi via trade.
Will SA want Fults at $8.3M?No problem at all. They will need to match Kawhi's salary. He will make $20M next year. If this trade is made then Covington definitely goes the opposite direction ($10.4M) and probably Fultz gets used as another asset, he makes $8.3M. Then they either offer whoever they pick at 10 (Mikal Bridges, Wendell Carter, Collin Sexton?) and the salaries match, or offer future picks plus one of the fringe players (Holmes, TLC, Anderson) and it also works under the cap.
Basically they are in perfect situation to acquire Kawhi via trade.
Not a problem at all, they need to find a buyer for Bayless last year of contract and they'll have cap space for max player.And adding LeBron on a max on top of that is no problem either? Wow. That's the process for you!
Would those assets be good enough for Spurs to accept, though? Or are they just happy to get rid at this point?
Why not? He's a no. 1 pick who was rated extremely high out of college. He's had mental issues which ruined his first year but he's still a huge talent.Will SA want Fults at $8.3M?
It's the East.... They're weak as shit that LeBron moving teams within the conference is the ultimate decider on who gets to the Finals.Really? I'd say he would make (almost) every team in the East a contender, i.e. going to the Finals.
Stricly talking about the West, he'd be on par with Houston if he went to Portland or Utah for example, I'd say. He's just that good.
Not sure it is that clear. If LeBron goes to LA then it is almost a definite that George will go also. If LeBron doesn't go then I think PG will stay in OKC or go to the Cavs in a sign and trade. That's just my read on it though. I think he wants to play with LeBron but he also enjoys playing with Westbrook in OKC.Free agency:
LeBron’s move is basically the most important one here. I think the only realistic destinations are Cleveland, Lakers, Philly and maybe Houston (I have no idea how they are supposed to find cap space to do this but Morey is great at facilitating such moves). I am obviously hoping for Philadelphia and I think they have a great chance here but recently it seems like the Lakers have pulled ahead - not worried over this as he never went to bookies favourites in free agency anyway. Then there’s Paul George status but I think he pretty clearly goes to Lakers.
LeBron’s not going to the Spurs. He praises Pop a lot out of respect to him, but he’s not going to play for Pop and lose his freedom to pad stats for his legacy. That’s the only argument he has for being GOAT, give that up and that argument is done and he’s out for the running.Put LeBron and Kawhi together anywhere half competent and they are probably better than Warriors. Forget trying to match this "big 4" shenanigans, Rockets proved you don't need to truly do that. Just might be handy if one of your big 2 isn't a bit injury prone.....which Kawhi could be also, but then again, so is Curry.
I hope wherever decision LeBron makes leaves a bit of parity instead of overpowering the league at the top. We are almost close to getting over this 2 year Warriors overpowered farce....we just had two conference finals where the losing teams had a few things happen to disadvantage them, and with the exception of Toronto, the losers from the semi's should only improve....so for me wanting a good league, stay at Cleveland.
For himself and an easy ring....well whatever out of the Sixers, Spurs or anywhere with Kawhi, or Rockets....though maybe not, not sure how he and Harden work, him and Paul, yes.
They also have no cap space to sign him into.LeBron’s not going to the Spurs. He praises Pop a lot out of respect to him, but he’s not going to play for Pop and lose his freedom to pad stats for his legacy. That’s the only argument he has for being GOAT, give that up and that argument is done and he’s out for the running.
LeBron is better than Durant, but not a big difference, and the same can be said for Embiid with Green (in fact, considering the experience and Green's ability to raise his game in the playoff, I would say that when it matters, Green is comfortably better than Embiid). Kawhi and Klay is the dealbreaker, Kawhi is so much better. But then, Curry is far superior to Simmons, and let's not forget that for all his ability, Simmons was garbage in the playoff, with Tatum looking three times the better player.I think Sixers with LeBron and Kawhi are actually comfortably better than Warriors. LeBron is better than Durant, Kawhi is better than Klay, Embiid is better than Green and Simmons is not better than Curry now but would be a nightmare match up for them anyway and is an amazing player. They’d take some time to gel but I’d be surprised if they didn’t get to the Finals easily and gave Warriors a great series there.
Nah I think Embiid at his best is on a different level compared to Green at his best. He’s basically the best center in the league. Green is a great hustle player, he passes the ball very well and he can sometimes shoot but Embiid is just amazing talent - he can kill you inside, is an amazing defender and he can get the crowd going just as much if not more than Draymond.LeBron is better than Durant, but not a big difference, and the same can be said for Embiid with Green (in fact, considering the experience and Green's ability to raise his game in the playoff, I would say that when it matters, Green is comfortably better than Embiid). Kawhi and Klay is the dealbreaker, Kawhi is so much better. But then, Curry is far superior to Simmons, and let's not forget that for all his ability, Simmons was garbage in the playoff, with Tatum looking three times the better player.
There is also the matter of chemistry which Dubs have, and probably 76ers won't have adding two massive superstars in the same season. And who knows how would James, Leonard and Simmons play together, all three of them need the ball to be at their best (unlike Durant and Klay for example). Would say that they are close, but still would have Dubs as favorites.
