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elmo

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Harden > Luka

It's not even close. Harden is basically doing what Luka does and more. There's no real argument at all that Luka deserves MVP over Harden.
 

elmo

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Trae is a fantastic player but his ceiling is much lower than Doncic's. It's really sad that that trade will loom over him for his entire career because he's easily a top 10 point guard at 21 yet everytime he's mentioned, the Doncic trade comes up.

Doesn't help that Atlanta seem to have blown the Dallas pick they received as compensation to trade down. Reddish is abysmal and I'm actually not sure anymore he will really improve to a degree where he is a serviceable rotation player. It would have helped Trae massively if they picked someone good with that and it became Trae + someone for Doncic rather than Trae + crap for Doncic.
He'll be alright, people will be laughing at us for picking Ayton as the first pick.
 

Sarni

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He'll be alright, people will be laughing at us for picking Ayton as the first pick.
Ayton will be fine though three players who went 3-5 will be better. Kings were fools taking Bagley too. Grizzlies taking JJJ over Trae was fine. Drop off after 5th is rather huge, until we get to SGA who is amazing then it's basically nothing until the end of first round (though they are all in second year so most of them will still measurably improve their game).
 

giorno

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Only because the best scorer is injured this season.
I'm not sure actually...in the playoffs yeah, KD is the best scorer in the world(in fact, a reminder that before the injuries KD was playing at very close to peak MJ levels last playoffs)
 

giorno

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Ayton will be fine though three players who went 3-5 will be better. Kings were fools taking Bagley too. Grizzlies taking JJJ over Trae was fine. Drop off after 5th is rather huge, until we get to SGA who is amazing then it's basically nothing until the end of first round (though they are all in second year so most of them will still measurably improve their game).
Ayton might be fine in the future but he was picked first in a draft including an MVP contender and an All-Star in just their second year, and right now is like the 5th best player in the draft at best and when you look at Mitchell Robinson might not even be the 4th best pick of the draft going forward...

Bagley looks even worse right now

Grizzlies picking JJJ over Trae only looks good now because they got to redo and got Ja
 

Sarni

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Ayton might be fine in the future but he was picked first in a draft including an MVP contender and an All-Star in just their second year, and right now is like the 5th best player in the draft at best and when you look at Mitchell Robinson might not even be the 4th best pick of the draft going forward...

Bagley looks even worse right now

Grizzlies picking JJJ over Trae only looks good now because they got to redo and got Ja
Nah, JJJ by himself is very good. He's not the sort of player you want to have as your best player when you are competing but is perfect for that 2nd/3rd best player role. He does everything.

Ja is incredible though. What a talent.
 

Sarni

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With Nets struggling that 8th place in the East is going to be brutal. They are all basically playing for the privilege of getting spanked by the Bucks so I doubt there's really that much willingness for those team to really go after that 8th seed.

Not much better in the West where 8th seed also seems like the only one available with lots of teams capable of getting there just to get battered by Lakers. At least there you may have the odd chance of Davis getting injured again and then it's a game.
 

RobinLFC

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With Nets struggling that 8th place in the East is going to be brutal. They are all basically playing for the privilege of getting spanked by the Bucks so I doubt there's really that much willingness for those team to really go after that 8th seed.

Not much better in the West where 8th seed also seems like the only one available with lots of teams capable of getting there just to get battered by Lakers. At least there you may have the odd chance of Davis getting injured again and then it's a game.
I'm kinda hoping the Spurs get in just so they continue their playoff run. A Lakers-Spurs (if we get the #1 seed) would be very nostalgic as well, even if it's not evenly matched when everyone is fit.
 

Sarni

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I'm kinda hoping the Spurs get in just so they continue their playoff run. A Lakers-Spurs (if we get the #1 seed) would be very nostalgic as well, even if it's not evenly matched when everyone is fit.
And Spurs are going to be a tough outing for anyone to be fair... Even when they are very ordinary they can still be a threat to those better teams. They matched Nuggets last year.
 

elmo

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Ayton might be fine in the future but he was picked first in a draft including an MVP contender and an All-Star in just their second year, and right now is like the 5th best player in the draft at best and when you look at Mitchell Robinson might not even be the 4th best pick of the draft going forward...

Bagley looks even worse right now

Grizzlies picking JJJ over Trae only looks good now because they got to redo and got Ja
Yeah, nobody honestly thinks that Michell Robinson is anywhere near close to being better than Ayton.

Ayton's worst case scenario is being the 3rd best player in his draft.
 

Sarni

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Yeah, nobody honestly thinks that Michell Robinson is anywhere near close to being better than Ayton.

Ayton's worst case scenario is being the 3rd best player in his draft.
Jackson Jr can comfortably be better than him. SGA too.
 

giorno

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Yeah, nobody honestly thinks that Michell Robinson is anywhere near close to being better than Ayton.

Ayton's worst case scenario is being the 3rd best player in his draft.
I think Ayton's worst case scenario might be 6th best player in the draft. Unless he becomes one of the league's best defenders or a KAT/Embiid/Jokic level of attacking player, JJJ and Robinson project as quite simply more useful players
 

elmo

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I think Ayton's worst case scenario might be 6th best player in the draft. Unless he becomes one of the league's best defenders or a KAT/Embiid/Jokic level of attacking player, JJJ and Robinson project as quite simply more useful players
I'm curious to know when's the last time you watched Ayton play before you reach the conclusion that Robinson will be more useful than Ayton.
 

giorno

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I'm curious to know when's the last time you watched Ayton play before you reach the conclusion that Robinson will be more useful than Ayton.
Last season, yeah. Missed 25 games in this one....

So what's new about Ayton? Besides the fact he's currently a less useful player to his team than Aaron Baynes?
 

SportingCP96

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Nah, JJJ by himself is very good. He's not the sort of player you want to have as your best player when you are competing but is perfect for that 2nd/3rd best player role. He does everything.

Ja is incredible though. What a talent.
I love watching JA play! He Isa really fun player to watch and hopefully Memphis get the right pieces around him and build something.
 

Sarni

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I love watching JA play! He Isa really fun player to watch and hopefully Memphis get the right pieces around him and build something.
They already have two of them in JJJ and Clarke (great piece). They might actually make the playoffs this year, they have almost zero reason to tank as they owe the pick to Celtics unless it's top 5 and if it is then they owe them unprotected 2021 pick (I think), so they'd probably actually prefer to send it over this year as no. 15 or something.
 

elmo

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Last season, yeah. Missed 25 games in this one....

So what's new about Ayton? Besides the fact he's currently a less useful player to his team than Aaron Baynes?
:lol:

Yeah, you're talking shit despite knowing nothing about our team and players like everyone else.
 

giorno

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:lol:

Yeah, you're talking shit despite knowing nothing about our team and players like everyone else.
Illuminate me. (Also not true i know nothing about your team or players. I do know Booker's been pretty amazing this year and Baynes was awesome earlier in the season)
 

elmo

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Illuminate me. (Also not true i know nothing about your team or players. I do know Booker's been pretty amazing this year and Baynes was awesome earlier in the season)
Ayton's outplayed Baynes is all his games so far and it's all down to his much improved play on the defensive end.

He's finally using his speed and length to start altering shots and he's not just guarding the paint but also starting to cut off defenders from the perimeter. We look like a potential playoff team with him on and a tanking team with him off.
 

hasanejaz88

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Dallas' season is tanking without KP. They seriously need him back to keep their playoff position.
 

adexkola

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Quick rebuild for Memphis really. Ja and JJJ are great pieces to build around. @adexkola playoffs in the near future maybe? Maybe even this season...
It's a long shot methinks for this season. I think we are still projected to finish the season with a losing record, and it's been a while since the West would allow for such a team to make the playoffs.

In the near future, absolutely. And Ja is entertaining enough in the short term to fill seats up at the forum. I've circled Memphis' visits to Boston and New York to see them live.
 

Sarni

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It's a long shot methinks for this season. I think we are still projected to finish the season with a losing record, and it's been a while since the West would allow for such a team to make the playoffs.

In the near future, absolutely. And Ja is entertaining enough in the short term to fill seats up at the forum. I've circled Memphis' visits to Boston and New York to see them live.
I am pretty sure the 8th seed is going to have a losing record this year. All teams 8-15 are dump. Portland probably the only ones capable of hitting over .500 but it’s a long shot.

Anyway it’s best for Memphis to hand over that pick to Boston this year. Next two drafts will be better and you don’t want to owe anything then. Also very impressive how the rebuild has been conducted so far.
 

adexkola

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I am pretty sure the 8th seed is going to have a losing record this year. All teams 8-15 are dump. Portland probably the only ones capable of hitting over .500 but it’s a long shot.

Anyway it’s best for Memphis to hand over that pick to Boston this year. Next two drafts will be better and you don’t want to owe anything then. Also very impressive how the rebuild has been conducted so far.
Yeah ever since Chris Wallace was demoted it's been night and day.
 

Moby

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MVP? Maybe there are some better PER per game and other stat figures. Come playoff who would you take though?
If the remaining season keeps going the same way, Bron will win. His leadership in getting this Lakers unit together and play like contenders has been great, and he's formed a great 1-2 punch with AD.
 

Moby

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Playoffs are irrelevant when it comes to MVP. If things keep going as they are then I hope Giannis wins it. The Lakers hype machine might sway people though.
That's what I think as well. They already have a strong narrative behind the whole resurgence led by Bron, and that will only grow unless some terrible injuries happen.

To be fair Bron is definitely in the conversation just based on his performances anyway, he's been putting up excellent numbers, is leading the league in assists, looks really good in terms of athleticism and energy.
 

Jim Beam

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Playoffs are irrelevant when it comes to MVP. If things keep going as they are then I hope Giannis wins it. The Lakers hype machine might sway people though.
Of course. I was just saying that he is still the best player in the league imo and that this season is really impressive from him. And if I had to put money at this point in time on who will win it, I would go with the Lakers.
 

adexkola

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Ayton might be fine in the future but he was picked first in a draft including an MVP contender and an All-Star in just their second year, and right now is like the 5th best player in the draft at best and when you look at Mitchell Robinson might not even be the 4th best pick of the draft going forward...

Bagley looks even worse right now

Grizzlies picking JJJ over Trae only looks good now because they got to redo and got Ja
We still had Conley at the time. Plus PGs in Trae's mold are a dime a dozen.
 

Bubz27

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That can't be true because Harden takes 73 free throws a game.