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Revan

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The main reason but not the only reason. He couldn't overcome Memphis without Westrbook in 2013. Westbrook also outplayed Durant in quite a few playoff games. Harden was also instrumental in getting to the finals in 2012.



As far as I can tell at least one of the FMVP's Durant got was essentially a toss-up and Curry would have been equally deserving. He also should have won the FMVP that went to Iggy. @Charlie Foley and @charlton66 can probably speak to that better than I can though. But any FMVP in the Durant-Warriors years are not that impressive IMO. Wouldn't have matter if Steph had won them. They were ridiculously superior talent-wise it wasn't a fair contest.
It wasn't exactly a toss-up. Durant won 7 votes compared to Curry getting 4.

Durant averaged 28.8 points, 10.8 rebounds, 7.5 assists, and two blocks per game, while shooting 52.6 percent from the field, and 40 percent from 3-point land. In game 3, when Steph (11 points in 3 out of 16 shooting) and Klay (10 points in 4 for 11 shooting) were not great, and Dubs were behind, Durant dropped 43 points, 13 rebounds and seven assists on 15-of-23 shooting.

Curry averaged 27.5 points, 6.8 assists and 6.0 rebounds, while shooting 40.2 percent from the field, and 41.5% from 3-point land.

----------------

LeBron James should have won the fMVP instead of Iguodala. He got 4 votes, but Iggy got 7. Steph got 0.
 

Bepi

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I think Curry does not need any individual/traditional award, really… in that he was more, that is the leader and the most inspired interpeter of a paradigm shift in the game as a whole, namely the 3-point extremisation. The “Splash Brothers” (Curry + Thompson) theoretical contribution easily makes them top 5 all time in the history of the game.
 

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Tarnished in what sense?
When you look at the top10-20 players you have pretty much everyone who led their teams to dynasties or at least multiple rings as comfortably the most important player and the one the team is built around. Warriors was, is and always be Steph's team and built around his qualities, outside of joining that team and playing under what was already one of the greatest teams ever (it's telling when your teammate in public says they didn't need you to win...) there's no other achievement in his CV.
 

Moby

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I think Curry does not need any individual/traditional award, really… in that he was more, that is the leader and the most inspired interpeter of a paradigm shift in the game as a whole, namely the 3-point extremisation. The “Splash Brothers” (Curry + Thompson) theoretical contribution easily makes them top 5 all time in the history of the game.
100%. A lot of players have a lot of awards, wins and great legacies but Curry's legacy is also shared by very, very few in the history of the sport. In a decade or two he will be remembered as the father of this transformation and rightly so.
 

Zen

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Steph not winning the FMVP in 2015 was a bit odd, and seemingly only happened because they didn't want to truly give it to a losing LeBron.... who definitely should of won it. Curry attracted so much more attention that of course his efficiency was going to be down, and Iggy stepped up, but it was hardly Kawhi levels of outshining the stars the previous year(LeBron was probably the true MVP that year too)

You should have to have an unreal series(Wade 2006) or the star have a truly horrendous series(Shaq 2006) for it to go the other way in my opinion. Modern voters would actually dish it to Rodman in the 1996 Finals, FYI Kemp was as close as LeBron in 2015 to winning that as a loser.+
 

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The main reason but not the only reason. He couldn't overcome Memphis without Westrbook in 2013. Westbrook also outplayed Durant in quite a few playoff games. Harden was also instrumental in getting to the finals in 2012.



As far as I can tell at least one of the FMVP's Durant got was essentially a toss-up and Curry would have been equally deserving. He also should have won the FMVP that went to Iggy. @Charlie Foley and @charlton66 can probably speak to that better than I can though. But any FMVP in the Durant-Warriors years are not that impressive IMO. Wouldn't have matter if Steph had won them. They were ridiculously superior talent-wise it wasn't a fair contest.
The story goes that in 2015, the finals voters who thought a Warriors player should win couldn't decide between Iggy and Steph but there were also a number of voters who wanted to give it to LeBron even though his team had lost. Supposedly, all the voters who were going to vote for Steph switched to Iggy to stop LeBron winning, so he got 7 votes and Steph got none. I think the final vote tally was 7-4 for Iggy over LeBron.

In 2018, the finals MVP was also close. In all four games Durant was pretty good. Steph on the other hand probably outplayed him in three of the four games but had an absolute stinker in the other. I think the vote count finished either 7-4 or 6-5 for KD. Can't remember exactly.

In hindsight, I think it's become fairly obvious that KD needed the Dubs a lot more than the Dubs needed KD. They won in 2015 without him, got to the finals in 2019 without him (and probably would have won that if Klay hadn't got hurt in game 2 and then again for good in game 6) and here in 2022 they're on the verge of getting to the finals again - without him.
 
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elmo

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Then why couldn't Steph Curry get a FMVP against that apparently useless Cavs team (who made it to 4 straight finals)?

(I don't say this to put down Curry, just highlight the inconsistency in your post in downplaying that Cavs team)



Tarnished in what sense?

Warrior win or not, Durant still goes down as one of the best SFs we have ever seen. MVP, multiple clutch performances in the playoffs (for OKC, Warriors, Nets), and 2 rings. And regardless of what he does from right now, he's not passing LeBron. I doubt he can catch Bird. Otherwise he is clear of the rest. So what changes in his resume if the Warriors win out? He becomes worse than Baylor or Pippen? Or people on the internet rate him less?
Because the people who picks the FMVP are idiots.

fecking Igoudala getting FMVP over Steph ffs. :lol:

Steph outplayed KD one year in the Finals as well except for one bad game but they awarded it to KD instead.
 

Revan

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The story goes that in 2015, the finals voters who thought a Warriors player should win couldn't decide between Iggy and Steph but there were also a number of voters who wanted to give it to LeBron even though his team had lost. Supposedly, all the voters who were going to vote for Steph switched to Iggy to stop LeBron winning, so he got 7 votes and Steph got none. I think the final vote tally was 7-4 for Iggy over LeBron.

In 2018, the finals MVP was also close. In all four games Durant was pretty good. Steph on the other hand probably outplayed him in three of the four games but had an absolute stinker in the other. I think the vote count finished either 7-4 or 6-5 for KD. Can't remember exactly.
Steph outperformed Durant in the first and fourth match. He was also very good in the second match, and had an absolute stinker in the fourth match.
Durant outperformed Steph in the second match, was quite good in the first match, was very good and had a triple-double in the fourth match, and had a historic game in the third one.

The voting went 7-4 in favor of KD.

Stat-wise and re-watching the games, KD was by far the better player. Just that Steph was so good on the fourth match that made some people think that he deserves the award. If matches 3 and 4 were swapped, for example, no one would have been claiming that Steph should have won it.

----

With regards to the 2015 finals, are the 11 voters actually allowed to speak to each other and do tactical voting?
 

charlton66

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Steph outperformed Durant in the first and fourth match. He was also very good in the second match, and had an absolute stinker in the fourth match.
Durant outperformed Steph in the second match, was quite good in the first match, was very good and had a triple-double in the fourth match, and had a historic game in the third one.

The voting went 7-4 in favor of KD.

Stat-wise and re-watching the games, KD was by far the better player. Just that Steph was so good on the fourth match that made some people think that he deserves the award. If matches 3 and 4 were swapped, for example, no one would have been claiming that Steph should have won it.

----

With regards to the 2015 finals, are the 11 voters actually allowed to speak to each other and do tactical voting?
The general consensus after game 2 was that Steph was odds on favorite to win fmvp. The bookies certainly thought so and also had him odds on. In game 3 he was poor and Durant probably had his best game. In game 4, Steph was once again better. The award could have gone either way.

2015 was a joke. The irony was that Iggy got the award for stopping LeBron which he really didn't and then of course Steph finished with no votes because of the collusion. I don't know if people remember this but Iggy was rarely in the game at the end because Steve Kerr had to keep taking him out because the Cavs kept deliberately fouling him. I think he finished somewhere around 35% from the free throw line for the series or something ridiculous like that. All that being said, love Iggy and even though IMLTHO he didn't deserve the award he did play a great series.
 

adexkola

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The main reason but not the only reason. He couldn't overcome Memphis without Westrbook in 2013. Westbrook also outplayed Durant in quite a few playoff games. Harden was also instrumental in getting to the finals in 2012.
I can't hold that Memphis series against Durant. Westbrook going out allowed our entire defense to zone in on Durant (especially Tony Allen). He had no chance. Very few players would in that case.

What you say regarding Westbrook and Harden is true, but in every deep run OKC had, Durant was pivotal (as opposed to being carried).

Because the people who picks the FMVP are idiots.

fecking Igoudala getting FMVP over Steph ffs. :lol:

Steph outplayed KD one year in the Finals as well except for one bad game but they awarded it to KD instead.
They are idiots, yes, but a dominant performance from Steph in the finals would have left the voters with no choice. You can't simultaneously downplay that Cavs team and ignore the fact that Curry struggled at parts against them, to the point that the FMVP award was even a discussion (yes, for the idiots that voted)
 

Revan

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The general consensus after game 2 was that Steph was odds on favorite to win fmvp. The bookies certainly thought so and also had him odds on. In game 3 he was poor and Durant probably had his best game. In game 4, Steph was once again better. The award could have gone either way.

2015 was a joke. The irony was that Iggy got the award for stopping LeBron which he really didn't and then of course Steph finished with no votes because of the collusion. I don't know if people remember this but Iggy was rarely in the game at the end because Steve Kerr had to keep taking him out because the Cavs kept deliberately fouling him. I think he finished somewhere around 35% from the free throw line for the series or something ridiculous like that. All that being said, love Iggy and even though IMLTHO he didn't deserve the award he did play a great series.
Iggy winning it was a farce. Saying that, Dubs outscored Cavs by 50 something points when Iggy was playing, and got outscored by 30 or so points when he was not playing. Also, LeBron's shooting went from mid fourties when Iggy was out, to high thirties when Iggy was in. So, he didn't stop LeBron (no one can stop peak LeBron), but he made him less efficient, and Dubs played much better when Iggy was playing.

I think that 2015 should have gone to LeBron. He essentially lead the series in points, assists and rebounds, averaging 9 or so more points than Steph. All this while the second-best player on his team being Dellavedova, and still managed to get 2 wins, and made it quite difficult for Dubs who had prime Steph, Klay, Green, and Iguodala.

With regards to the 2018, despite Steph having by far his best game in the last one, he only got 35% of the votes.
 

Revan

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Steph outplayed KD one year in the Finals as well except for one bad game but they awarded it to KD instead.
Durant averaged 28.8 points, compared to Steph's 27.5.
Durant averaged 10.8 rebounds compared to Steph's 6.
Durant averaged 7.5 assists compared to Steph's 6.8.
Durant averaged 0.8 steals compared to Stephs's 1.5
Durant averaged 2.3 blocks compared to Steph's 0.8.

Durant shot 52.6% compared to Steph shooting 40.2% from the field (Steph was better on free throw line though, 100% vs 96.3%).

In total, Durant scored 115 points from 76 shots. Steph scored 110 points, from 92 shots.
Durant went to the free-throw line 27 times, converting 26 of them. Steph went 14 times, converting them all.
Durant had in total 9 turnovers, Steph had 11.

Durant averaged a ± of 21.5, Steph averaged a ± of 11.8.

At the end of the day, Durant scored more, from far fewer shots, went more to the free-throw line and was as efficient, made more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, had fewer turnovers, and averaged double the ±, despite playing on Steph's team. Yet, Steph outplayed Durant apparently, and people who voted KD were idiots.

Something not matching up.
 

Zen

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The counter will be he had one bad game...

Those other 3 games - 33PPG, 7APG, 1.5SPG, .483 on 3's.

Take out KD's worst game - 31.7PPG, 6.7PPG, .474 on 3's while being vastly superior on overall efficiency, and rebounding.

So yeah, given how tight it is, that one bad game swung it in a 4 game series.
 

Charlie Foley

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Durant averaged 28.8 points, compared to Steph's 27.5.
Durant averaged 10.8 rebounds compared to Steph's 6.
Durant averaged 7.5 assists compared to Steph's 6.8.
Durant averaged 0.8 steals compared to Stephs's 1.5
Durant averaged 2.3 blocks compared to Steph's 0.8.

Durant shot 52.6% compared to Steph shooting 40.2% from the field (Steph was better on free throw line though, 100% vs 96.3%).

In total, Durant scored 115 points from 76 shots. Steph scored 110 points, from 92 shots.
Durant went to the free-throw line 27 times, converting 26 of them. Steph went 14 times, converting them all.
Durant had in total 9 turnovers, Steph had 11.

Durant averaged a ± of 21.5, Steph averaged a ± of 11.8.

At the end of the day, Durant scored more, from far fewer shots, went more to the free-throw line and was as efficient, made more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, had fewer turnovers, and averaged double the ±, despite playing on Steph's team. Yet, Steph outplayed Durant apparently, and people who voted KD were idiots.

Something not matching up.
Do you have the stats game by game handy by any chance? I think a counter argument could be that Steph outscored KD in 3 games (despite being double teamed) and KD’s much better game 3 skews the average statistics, even though, at least PPG, Steph was ahead of him in more games, so contributed more to more wins. I don’t know the other statistics though, and I am too lazy to look it up, although Steph it seems had more assists in games 1 and 2.
 

Revan

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Do you have the stats game by game handy by any chance? I think a counter argument could be that Steph outscored KD in 3 games (despite being double teamed) and KD’s much better game 3 skews the average statistics, even though, at least PPG, Steph was ahead of him in more games, so contributed more to more wins. I don’t know the other statistics though, and I am too lazy to look it up, although Steph it seems had more assists in games 1 and 2.
Sure.

Steph: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/steph-curry-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Stephen Curry averaged 27.5 points,what you're looking for?
KD: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kevin-durant-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Kevin Durant averaged 28.8 points,what you're looking for?

Steph was better in the first and fourth game, although KD was pretty good in those 2 games. In the second game though, KD was better. Sure, Steph scored 7 more points (33 vs 26), but he also took 12 more shots (26 vs 14). Essentially KD went 10 from 14, while Steph went 11 from 26. That is much better by KD (who also lead in most of the other stats).

Steph got double-teamed, but KD gets double-teamed as much as him. Essentially KD to Steph was similar to Shaq with Kobe. 1A and 1B but one clearly better.
 

charlton66

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Do you have the stats game by game handy by any chance? I think a counter argument could be that Steph outscored KD in 3 games (despite being double teamed) and KD’s much better game 3 skews the average statistics, even though, at least PPG, Steph was ahead of him in more games, so contributed more to more wins. I don’t know the other statistics though, and I am too lazy to look it up, although Steph it seems had more assists in games 1 and 2.
They're probably on basketball reference. If I remember rightly the site usually gives the stats on a per game basis and also a series basis. Just type in "warriors v cavs 2015 finals stats" and you should be golden.
 

charlton66

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Sure.

Steph: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/steph-curry-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Stephen Curry averaged 27.5 points,what you're looking for?
KD: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kevin-durant-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Kevin Durant averaged 28.8 points,what you're looking for?

Steph was better in the first and fourth game, although KD was pretty good in those 2 games. In the second game though, KD was better. Sure, Steph scored 7 more points (33 vs 26), but he also took 12 more shots (26 vs 14). Essentially KD went 10 from 14, while Steph went 11 from 26. That is much better by KD (who also lead in most of the other stats).
You keep doing this, quoting stats at me and telling me they prove a player was better. KD was more efficient because Steph kept getting double teamed and blitzed. The Cavs defended him in the exact same way as they did prior to KD getting there. If you're getting open shots all the time, of course you're going to be more efficient.

We got a look at how KD is doing without Steph v Boston. Not quite as efficient there.
 
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Revan

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You keep doing this, quoting stats at me and telling me they prove a player was better. KD was more efficient because Steph kept getting double teamed and blitzed. The Cavs defended him in the exact same way as they did prior to KD getting there. If you're getting open shots all the time, of course you're going to be more efficient.
Let's pretend that KD is Giannis and teams just leave him shoot from the field, and you then have an argument. Back on reality, he is one of the best shooters ever, and they were trying to stop him as much as they can. Every time Dubs were in trouble, they were passing the ball to him, cause he was their best player, and can make his own shots better than any other player in the league (or at least this was the case, until he faced Celtics).

I watched the games (several times) and I think that KD was better. Stats are overwhelmingly in favor of KD. And voters voted KD.

Yet, Steph was better :lol: :lol: :lol:

NB: I also quoted stats to the poster who asked me to.
 

Zen

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Out of curiosity, why would watch them 4 games...."multiple times" ?

Do you do this with every finals? The actual decent ones?
 

charlton66

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Let's pretend that KD is Giannis and teams just leave him shoot from the field, and you then have an argument. Back on reality, he is one of the best shooters ever, and they were trying to stop him as much as they can. Every time Dubs were in trouble, they were passing the ball to him, cause he was their best player, and can make his own shots better than any other player in the league (or at least this was the case, until he faced Celtics).

I watched the games (several times) and I think that KD was better. Stats are overwhelmingly in favor of KD. And voters voted KD.

Yet, Steph was better :lol: :lol: :lol:

NB: I also quoted stats to the poster who asked me to.
No you quoted a bunch of stats prior to the post with the statmuse url.

In all honesty, I was leaning towards Durant at the time and from memory actually posted that on here. The original point though was that Steph had never won a finals MVP and the answer was that he quite easily could have won both in 2015 and 2018 and that is still true.
 

Revan

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No you quoted a bunch of stats prior to the post with the statmuse url.

In all honesty, I was leaning towards Durant at the time and from memory actually posted that on here. The original point though was that Steph had never won a finals MVP and the answer was that he quite easily could have won both in 2015 and 2018 and that is still true.
Well, he won 4 out of 22 combined votes in those 2 seasons, so obviously it never was true.
 

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Well, he won 4 out of 22 combined votes in those 2 seasons, so obviously it never was true.
You can’t seriously use box stats in one season and not in others. I know that’s what the voters did but that’s besides the point.
 

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Well, he won 4 out of 22 combined votes in those 2 seasons, so obviously it never was true.
Once again you're quoting numbers at me. I'm not going to say as @elmo did that the voters are idiots, but it appears they did have an ulterior motive as to why Steph got 0 votes in 2015.

....and since it appears you love your stats; in 2015 Steph was 26.0/5.2/6.3 from the field, Iggy was 16.3/5.8/4.0 shooting 35.7% from the line. When you look at that based on the almighty statistics, who do you think should have won from those two?
 
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Revan

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You can’t seriously use box stats in one season and not in others. I know that’s what the voters did but that’s besides the point.
For what is worth, I think that Steph deserved it more than Iggy, but then, I think that LeBron should have won it. He was far and away the best player in that series, and so the half-century tradition of fMVP going to the winner should have ended there.

I do not think there was much debate in 2018 except the first 10 mins when the last game is fresher in the mind.
 

SinNombre

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And just to put the 2018 finals in perspective,


There is always some contention on how these numbers are counted but the point remains that the Cavs were double teaming Steph and not KD.

Also Kawhi deservedly won in 2019 but if you purely went off box stats, there was very little between him and Steph.
 

Revan

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Once again you're quoting numbers at me. I'm not going to say as @elmo did that the voters are idiots, but it appears they did have an ulterior motive as to why Steph got 0 votes in 2015.

....and since it appears you love your stats; in 2015 Steph was 26.0/5.3/6.8 from the field, Iggy was 16.3/5.8/4.0. When you look at that based on the almighty statistics, who do you think should have won?
The guy with 35.8/13.3/8.8, obviouly.

Iggy won fMVP from essentially stopping LeBron go 40/13/10 or something ridiculous like that. Which of course I think was stupid. Should have been LeBron.

And if for whatever reasons, it must have been one from the winning team, then I think Steph deserved it more than Iggy, although it was closer than stats show cause Iggy was an awesome defender, while Steph a mediocre one.
 

SinNombre

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In the end, the reality is that Steph makes his teammates better and his gravity makes the team better.

Both Klay and Draymond weren’t included in the NBA-75 list and hardly anyone cared about their exclusions. They are only considered greater players to bash Curry.

And for this iteration of the Warriors if they end up doing well, we will see narratives of having all-star Wiggins and Poole when the former was considered the worst contract in the NBA and a joke, and the latter was considered the worst player in the NBA in his first season.
 

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Bottom line in all this, KD needed the Dubs far more than the Dubs needed KD.

....and Steph should have at least one fmvp.
 

Charlie Foley

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Sure.

Steph: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/steph-curry-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Stephen Curry averaged 27.5 points,what you're looking for?
KD: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kevin-durant-2018-finals-stats#:~:text=Kevin Durant averaged 28.8 points,what you're looking for?

Steph was better in the first and fourth game, although KD was pretty good in those 2 games. In the second game though, KD was better. Sure, Steph scored 7 more points (33 vs 26), but he also took 12 more shots (26 vs 14). Essentially KD went 10 from 14, while Steph went 11 from 26. That is much better by KD (who also lead in most of the other stats).

Steph got double-teamed, but KD gets double-teamed as much as him. Essentially KD to Steph was similar to Shaq with Kobe. 1A and 1B but one clearly better.
Thanks, I’ll look at those individual game links later.
the bolded Part doesn’t really make sense when discussing who should have won fmvp, though I guess it does if we’re just comparing the players. But the conversations are getting mixed up then
 

Moby

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Bottom line in all this, KD needed the Dubs and Steph far more than the Dubs and Steph needed KD.
As good as KD was Dubs didn't need him at all. They only lost the 2016 series because of Draymond being a moron. If he plays Game 5 that series is done there. And they only needed someone better than Barnes and there were plenty of decent options there. Other than that KD was just a luxury insurance policy in case Steph went off, nothing more.

Steph created the dynasty, showed how the sport needs to be played and changed the whole of it and is still running the dynasty. Different level.
 

Moby

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Never seen a so called "Most valuable player" being asked to feck off like this. :lol:

Green called Durant a “bitch” multiple times, sources said. In a summarized version, sources said Green shouted, “You’re a bitch and you know you’re a bitch.” The rhetoric, sources said, continued even when Kerr attempted to direct the team’s attention to his whiteboard.
Green blurted to Durant something along the lines of, “We don’t need you. We won without you. Leave,” sources said.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/11/1...nt-we-dont-need-you-we-won-without-you-leave/
 

charlton66

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Folks… live ahead… will Mavs win tonight??
If there is no let down then they probably should. However, I think keeping the same intensity when you're up 3-0 is hard. I think there's only been 1 sweep these entire playoffs. @Revan if you want to remind me again who that was. ;)

Bottom line, if the Dubs play well, I think they win, if not we'll probably see a game 5.
 

giorno

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Folks… live ahead… will Mavs win tonight??
The law of averages says yes

But no. They're cooked and they know it. Luka will go for something silly like 50/15/10 with 7 steals and they'll still lose by 10