No I understand that, I'm aware of GS's history, but now that you're so successful, this 'woe is us, we've been suffering for four years" is a bit jarring to listen to for those of us who haven't actually seen our teams win a chip yet
NBA 2021-2022
- Thread starter elmo
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
That's nothing to brag about ffs. He has a ring I guess, and if fully fit he was at some point arguably a top 5 player in the league, but never for a consistent period of time. He has absolutely no business being anywhere near a top 20 list at this point. The only current players I'd consider are LeBron, Curry, Durant, Giannis.
Until last night it would have been "the guy who makes a lot of 3s".
I swear that wasn't intentional!I don't know where you've seen "woe is us it's been 4 years" from Dubs fans on this site. Personally, I'm just glad to be in a final again and of course I hope we win.No I understand that, I'm aware of GS's history, but now that you're so successful, this 'woe is us, we've been suffering for four years" is a bit jarring to listen to for those of us who haven't actually seen our teams win a chip yet
No not on this site. The Dubs fans on here a good bunch.
It is, I don't think he's overrated at all, unless someone is claiming he's the undoubted best player ever, which no one is; he's the best perimeter shooter ever by far, an unstoppable scorer otherwise too, has 3 rings and could very well pick a 4th in the next few days, and has had the most dramatic impact on the game in decades (probably since peak Shaq). I won't go into all that top whatever nonsense as if that were somehow objectively quantifiable, I'm too old for that, he simply is one the very few best and greatest players ever, and that's pretty much it, and I'm far from his biggest fan (but I wish him...), but it is what it is.
The top 5 is most definitely not fixed. People generally agree on the top 3, with Jordan as the consensus greatest and LeBron and Kareem swapping places depending on whose list it is. But after that, there have been tons of lists who have placed everyone from Magic, Russell, and Wilt there.
For every list that has Wilt on there, another penalises him for playing in the pre-merger. Ditto with Russell.
https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Warriors-Fake-Klay-Thompson-Chase-banned-him-17239337.php
This has pushed me back onto the fence, and now I'm hoping for a Game 7 unless this ban is revoked
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
This has pushed me back onto the fence, and now I'm hoping for a Game 7 unless this ban is revoked
It also depends on how you quantify things. Wilt and Bill Russell are prime examples. If you do the list by awards, legacy etc... then Bill wins hands down. If you do it by records, talent etc.. it's Wilt. I've had similar thoughts about Steph and Magic. Magic has the greater legacy and is a better point guard but apart from his passing ability I'd choose Steph every time as the better overall player.
Kareem top 3? Idk, I'm definitely inclined towards Russell.
Chamberlain was not a team player. One season he decided he would prove he could pass and got 7.8 assists per game! Who does that? He may have been the most talented center ever, but for me that's not all there is to it.
But I only saw old Kareem, not the guy who was so good they outlawed dunking.
The things current players can do is amazing. No one back in the day would take the fade away leaning 3s that Curry and others take. They'd be benched for taking that shot. Who knows what Magic or Bird would look like coming up in this era. Magic as a shoot first point guard asked to shoot 10 3s a game? I bet he would have been amazing.
I prefer 80s and 90s style, but I do see some incredible offensive still in the league now. If course it does help if you can take an extra step now. Imagine Jordan with 3 steps allowed...
Shooting like anything else in basketball is a skill. Magic didn't have it. Before anyone tells me that they didn't shoot as many 3s back then you could still tell who was a good shooter and who wasn't. Bird of course could shoot, Mark Price, Dennis Scott, Craig Hodges etc... Magic no. His greatest skill was his passing ability. Turning him into a bad shooter instead of the greatest pure point guard ever. Just No!
Different era, Magic never focused on 3 point shooting, until his last 4 seasons, he shot 31.4% the first season he took more than 0.8 3s per game, next season it was 38.4, then 32.0, and 37.9 in his last shortened season. Certainly suggests he could have been a good 3 shooter if he ever put his mind to it.
Plenty of players have gone from being mediocre from 3 to deadly after spending a few seasons focusing on it. Maybe Magic isn't the best example, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying. If Jordan came into the league now he'd focus more on 3s, and I suspect he get very good at it.
I find that take interesting, during his last season at age 41 Kareem averaged 15.9 points per 36 and 7.1 rebounds. That's not far from some recent All star players careers average.
Magic
Jordan
James
Duncan
Kareem
This is still the GOAT starting 5 for me.
Jordan
James
Duncan
Kareem
This is still the GOAT starting 5 for me.
I think you probably have the best player by position on that team but you have little to no 3 point shooting. I'd replace Magic with Curry and have LeBron play point in the same way Draymond does for the Dubs.
I'd rather have the younger version of LeBron and Magic running the offense. With the likes of Jordan James and Kareem I'm not worried about scoring.
You mean as an actual starting 5 or as a fantasy one. I ask because I noticed that people tend to not care one bit about complimentarity, to me it's pretty obvious that a range of starting 5 would beat the breaks of this team, not enough shooters and too many ball handlers.
For example I would be confident to face your team with this despite the fact that I believe you have the best group of players individually.
Stockton
Curry
Bird
Garnett
Olajuwon
Well you can be super confident and still get battered to bits.
That's why there was an "imo" after the statement
MJ and LeBron are in a mini tier of their own for me.At least you take the defeat positively.
But that's hardly top 3 all time territory. Maybe he is 3rd best ever, but I've heard more talk about Wilt and Russell in my lifetime. Kareem seems to be less interesting on camera than either of those 2, fighting Bruce Lee aside.
At 41 years old he was indeed not playing like a top 3 all time player. At his pick he was definitely close to it.
Don't know where Steph ranks compared to the players from decades ago. But I know I will never stop laughing when someone suggests Durant is the better player.
I do it all the time and cringe when I realize that I forgot Curry. For me Curry is a forgettable great which I can't explain.
Which is even funnier considering that his influence on the game can be felt and seen even in games without him.
Couldn't agree more.
True but beyond influence, I can't give you any reason to not rate Curry as a superior offensive player. Who else in the league can score in the mid range, play-make, drive, finish at the rim, shoot 3s and play off-ball as well as Curry. Some players can do some of these things better but who can do all of these things at a similar level in all aspects of the offense?
That's why I find my own bias against Curry ridiculous, he should be the first name I think about but isn't. My way of rationalizing it, is that unlike every other future HOFers he acts normally all the time.
Maybe it's because he doesn't have self aggrandizing stuff like "King" and "Chosen1" tattooed all over his body.
Andrew Bogut said it best "he is one the few superstars I've been around that doesn't act like a superstar."
That's one aspect I've always disliked about Lebron, not the tattoos per se but the self aggrandizing
As Tywin Lannister said: any man who must say "I am the king" is no true king
Kareem is less interesting but he was so dominant that even when they banned dunks in NCAA, he just rolled out the skyhook.
Kareem is one of the most interesting men in all of sports. He's smart, erudite, well spoken, knowledgeable about numerous subjects, and an excellent writer and speaker.
Compared with a lot of the idiots that we have to listen to today, Kareem is top notch.
I think a lot of folks on here are mixing up the words "interesting" and "controversial." Kareem just did his job, won titles and moved on.
Kareem's a potential nobel prize winner who played basketball instead. But he was also the best to ever do it until Mike showed up
Tbf KD is the better scorer of the two though
I think it's because of how he looks and how his game looks. Simply put, KD looks like he should be unstoppable, and then he is. Steph doesn't look like he should be unstoppable, so everytime he has a poor shooting game we rationalize it as "normal" whereas with KD a bad shooting night is "stop the press! KD has bad shooting night!!!" material
Tbf KD is the better scorer of the two though
I thought about that angle after writing the post and you are right. And yes KD is the better scorer statistically but he isn't as versatile and he isn't covered the way Curry is, of course we are talking about the pinnacle of Basketball offense so they both have a lot of tools but something that people tend to brush away is that because Curry is a great ball handler, driver and finisher at the rim, you can't let him play 1v1 and teams rarely do that, iirc he is the most double and triple teamed player in the league and it's not due to his 3 points shooting but because he will cook you in the paint and then he is also arguably the best 3 points shooter of all times and close to the best free throw shooters.
So what I mean is that Curry stats don't even show how much he influences his team offense or the opposition defense because he systematically takes defenders away from the ball or teammates at all levels. And when teams don't respect that, like the Celtics did during the previous games, then he destroys the second best defense in the league and he does it without even pushing too hard.
Here you have a small example.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Exactly, KD is, no matter what you may think of him personally, an all-time scoring machine. But everyone is simply terrified of Curry as he simply is a better basketball player who has many more resources to dominate games at any level, including, of course, the highest.
In talking about Curry, this is what happens when you shut him down. Excellent analysis of game 5
Interesting stat on Steve Kerr's tenure with the Warriors.
In the post season, if the Dubs are leading at HT they are 61-4 under Kerr.
In the post season, if the Dubs are leading at HT they are 61-4 under Kerr.
Yeah, Steph is arguably the most impactful offensive player of all time in terms of how much his presence destabilizes defences
FMVP or not at this point i don't see an argument against him being a top 10 player all time
FMVP or not at this point i don't see an argument against him being a top 10 player all time
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
This got me smiling, in my early years following the NBA back then - I remember vividly where I was and how involved I was in this game. First time I had to follow the playoffs without the Lakers involved as well.
I loved Robert Horry though.
There is one. Who do you leave out? But yeah he is in the same tier as those players. He is definitely ahead of durant though. I remember watching those kd warriors final, cavs were terrified of him and the entire defensive plan was focused on him. Dont think durant has done anything in the post season which can compare to all time greats. Maybe his last season run was the most impressive.
Steph is the greatest ceiling raiser of all time is how I would describe his impact. Maybe tied with prime Shaq.
He is a great floor raiser as well but at the same level as KD or Giannis at that. Lebron obviously is a much superior floor raiser.
He is a great floor raiser as well but at the same level as KD or Giannis at that. Lebron obviously is a much superior floor raiser.