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JPRouve

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And I was never arguing it doesn't work. I don't know if it works or not. What I'm saying is that I believe the concept to be fundamentally and in its very core unsportsmanlike. What I'm also arguing is that it's not necessary. So that 17th overall pick for Favre (thanks for clearing that up) is something that would be available for precisely the kind of teams you mentioned. So would the picks for Brady or Rodgers. Or those for Klay Thompson and Draymond Green. Now we can argue if that 7th overall pick fits that bill (I think so). But even if it doesn't, from the 2023 All Star Game alone, we have Donovan Mitchell picked at 13, Giannis was picked 15, De Rozan 9, Haliburton 12, Holiday 17, Adebayo 14, Siakam 27, Sabonis 11, Paul George 10, SGA 11, Jokic 41.
So yeah, it can be done. It can very well be done. All these picks are somewhat available for precisely the kind of teams you mentioned. And they are picks you can quite well acquire via trade. The kind of teams you mentioned could have drafted Giannis and Jokic without any trading whatsoever. Two top 5 players in the league.
There simply is no excuse for tanking. And I might add that there is no divine right for mediocre teams to become good. So being mediocre doesn't justify that sort of strategy. At least not in my view.
On the Favre trade there is a context that goes to my initial point about value. In 1990 and 1991 the Packers were bad and drafted in the top 5 or 6. In 1991 they traded down to get an additional first in 1992, that additional first became Favre.

And no one told you that it can't be done, the point is what is the best strategy, what is the strategy that is more likely to put you in a position to pick a superstar? If it was your job on the line, would you gamble on maybe picking an all NBA player in the second round or have the first pick in the draft? And if these teams that picked great players late seldomly do it more than once in a decade?

And of course there is no divine right for any team to become good but your argument is essentially that they shouldn't do anything to increase their odds, they should just be content with mediocrity and hope that luck land them someone because in both cases you hope.
 

HTG

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On the Favre trade there is a context that goes to my initial point about value. In 1990 and 1991 the Packers were bad and drafted in the top 5 or 6. In 1991 they traded down to get an additional first in 1992, that additional first became Favre.

And no one told you that it can't be done, the point is what is the best strategy, what is the strategy that is more likely to put you in a position to pick a superstar? If it was your job on the line, would you gamble on maybe picking an all NBA player in the second round or have the first pick in the draft? And if these teams that picked great players late seldomly do it more than once in a decade?

And of course there is no divine right for any team to become good but your argument is essentially that they shouldn't do anything to increase their odds, they should just be content with mediocrity and hope that luck land them someone because in both cases you hope.
I never said they should be content. Or that they should not increase their odds. I just think that they should not do it by purposely losing.
And as I said before, I have never seen evidence to suggest that it is as good a strategy as you suggest.
To be honest, I don't really get what you are trying to argue. I think it is wrong. It doesn't matter to me whether it works or not. Or why teams are doing it. I simply think it is wrong and extremely unsportsmanlike.
 

UweBein

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Something is truly wrong when a player can get shut down (B.Simmons) but is still allowed to earn the remaining millions of his contract. He's basically been robbing 2 franchises now.
I disagree. The cards were on the table early on. I argued back then that the 76ers should not have offered him that deal. But they did.
And amazingly other teams have traded for him. They need to pay for their stupidity.
 

charlton66

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Now if we use the Warriors as an example, the reasons teams tank is for that type of example. If you pick 15th, you don't have Curry, you don't have the best player in the draft. If you pick between 10 and 20th every single season, there far more chances that the teams with worse record overtake you due to better players joining them and you essentially gamble on those teams not picking the player that you need.
Jonny Flynn, Ricky Rubio. :wenger: :D
 

JPRouve

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Jonny Flynn, Ricky Rubio. :wenger: :D
If your point is that the Timberwolves were terribly run, I already said it. I don't know if if was ever confirmed but Curry didn't even want to be drafted by the Wolves. :lol:
 

ZDwyr

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You tank so you don't become the Washington Wizards. What a depressing franchise.
 

JPRouve

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Huh?

Teams like the Cardinals and Saints were far more horrendous over their history. The Pats had been to two Super Bowls and multiple playoff appearances in the 80s and 90s.
I'm wrong because when I compiled the stats a few years ago, iirc it was the Bucs up until the mid 90s. It was a nonsensical comment.
 

Sarni

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You tank so you don't become the Washington Wizards. What a depressing franchise.
A few more losses and they’d be up there with Blazers and Magic challenging for 5th best odds but yet another season running they go all guns blazing for a play-in spot so they can just play depressingly against good teams in the postseason. Pointless, and none of their draft picks ever turn out half good.

That Beal contract is absurd too and you can just stake all your coins on them offering a hefty deal to Kuz this offseason as well.
 

charlton66

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If your point is that the Timberwolves were terribly run, I already said it. I don't know if if was ever confirmed but Curry didn't even want to be drafted by the Wolves. :lol:
No, actually I was just giving you a hard time. :)
 

JPRouve

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No, actually I was just giving you a hard time. :)
I will never understand this, people try to do that on twitter with Wolves fans, not realizing that it will never work. We all know how bad that franchise is, we embrace it. :D
 

kouroux

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The Nets knew who they were trading for. They gambled. They lost. They only have themselves to blame.
I disagree. The cards were on the table early on. I argued back then that the 76ers should not have offered him that deal. But they did.
And amazingly other teams have traded for him. They need to pay for their stupidity.
It goes without saying. It's too obvious that I didn't feel the need to mention it
 

ZDwyr

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A few more losses and they’d be up there with Blazers and Magic challenging for 5th best odds but yet another season running they go all guns blazing for a play-in spot so they can just play depressingly against good teams in the postseason. Pointless, and none of their draft picks ever turn out half good.

That Beal contract is absurd too and you can just stake all your coins on them offering a hefty deal to Kuz this offseason as well.
Yeah, I'd at least somewhat understand (but still disagree with) their approach if they had a knack for drafting well in the 8-13 range. But their picks are usually terrible.
 

Real Name

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Huge win by Clippers without Kawhi. Great game by Westbrook (36 points) and Covington stepped in, 27 points.
 

charlton66

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The Dubs really do like to make it tough for themselves and their fans. Build a double digit lead in the third but end going into the 4th down one. Then they score 43 in the 4th. Talk about a rollercoaster. Phew!!!
 

Charlie Foley

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The Dubs really do like to make it tough for themselves and their fans. Build a double digit lead in the third but end going into the 4th down one. Then they score 43 in the 4th. Talk about a rollercoaster. Phew!!!
Klay really exploded in that second half.

great to have GP2 back
 

SinNombre

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So finish 5th and play Suns in the first round, or 6th and the Kings. With some hopes of Wiggins returning soon, would rather play the Suns later assuming we can get through the bracket.
 

R'hllor

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Great, new lanes for trades, barelly understand current ones. Guess most will be happy with 65 games min but still think it should be few games higher, Looney eats 65 for breakfast
 

ZDwyr

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Not a fan of what I've read about the new CBA. The allowing players to invest in/promote betting companies is awful. Can see a range of issues arising from that.
 

Sarni

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Takes some doing for Wolves to lose to this Blazers team at home, in the middle of battling for seedings within the play-in which makes a ton of difference. :lol:
 

JPRouve

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Takes some doing for Wolves to lose to this Blazers team at home, in the middle of battling for seedings within the play-in which makes a ton of difference. :lol:
I was thinking about it yesterday but Finch is getting sacked within 14-15 months. I like him but at some point the lack of consistency needs to be fixed and he isn't doing it.
 

charlton66

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Another road loss. Thought we were going to pull it out but Klay missed the shot at the end.

Overall Steph and Klay just didn't have it tonight. Very disappointing in the end.
 

RobinLFC

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So tight right now for those last two automatic playoff spots in the West. Gonna be a great last week.
 

RobinLFC

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Did you see the Wemby ball skills before attempting a 3 and then doing a putback slam on his own attempt? :lol:

A 7'4 guy isn't supposed to be moving like that.
 

adexkola

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If UConn wins tonight they'll have won the most NCAA titles in the past 25 years. Didn't sound right so I had to check it and yep: more than Duke, more than NC, Kansas, Kentucky... in that period.

And they're not considered blue bloods!
 

Lay

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Did you see the Wemby ball skills before attempting a 3 and then doing a putback slam on his own attempt? :lol:

A 7'4 guy isn't supposed to be moving like that.
Yeah, was crazy to see. What's the rumours regarding where he's headed in the NBA?
 

RobinLFC

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Yeah, was crazy to see. What's the rumours regarding where he's headed in the NBA?
He's a lock for whoever picks first, yeah - I think with Scoot Henderson also pretty much a lock at #2, at least last time I checked.

Odds are 14% for the first 3 teams, then 12.5% for 4th and 10.5% for 5th. Looking at the current standings, looking like Pistons, Spurs or Rockets have the best chances at the moment.
 

Sarni

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Yeah, was crazy to see. What's the rumours regarding where he's headed in the NBA?
It’s a lottery. Nobody will trade out of that first pick for certain.
 

Sarni

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He's a lock for whoever picks first, yeah - I think with Scoot Henderson also pretty much a lock at #2, at least last time I checked.

Odds are 14% for the first 3 teams, then 12.5% for 4th and 10.5% for 5th. Looking at the current standings, looking like Pistons, Spurs or Rockets have the best chances at the moment.
Even below 5th you still get 9% and then 7.5% odds so he may well go to one of those teams.
 

Sarni

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Hope he goes to the pistons. That would make them a scary young team.
Cade has barely been healthy and Ivey has been good but not great. Duren has done well but he’d see his minutes limited with Wemby. I don’t think they’d be that great even if they get him.

Blazers aside (which is obvious) I wouldn’t mind seeing him next to LaMelo in Charlotte. He would be perfect next to Haliburton in Indiana too. He’d be lovely in OKC but they will have like 2% chance. I definitely don’t want him to go to the Rockets or Wizards.
 

charlton66

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It seems like every Dubs game I watch they have to come from behind. Fortunately, they were able to do it again.

Big win!
 

RobinLFC

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Stressed out for tonight's game against the Clippers.
 

Real Name

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Stressed out for tonight's game against the Clippers.
I think Lakers are favorites for this one. Clippers have beaten the Lakers 3 times this season but this will be different Lakers. Couple that with Clippers inconsistency and the'll probably end up in playin tournament. Although I guess they might end up out of it even with defeat tonight?
Too many calculations.
 

ZDwyr

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Cade has barely been healthy and Ivey has been good but not great. Duren has done well but he’d see his minutes limited with Wemby. I don’t think they’d be that great even if they get him.

Blazers aside (which is obvious) I wouldn’t mind seeing him next to LaMelo in Charlotte. He would be perfect next to Haliburton in Indiana too. He’d be lovely in OKC but they will have like 2% chance. I definitely don’t want him to go to the Rockets or Wizards.
Agree with almost all of this.

My preference for Wemby

1. OKC, obviously
2. Charlotte
3. Indiana
4. Portland

Then anyone but the Rockets or Pistons.
 

Bubz27

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I think Lakers are favorites for this one. Clippers have beaten the Lakers 3 times this season but this will be different Lakers. Couple that with Clippers inconsistency and the'll probably end up in playin tournament. Although I guess they might end up out of it even with defeat tonight?
Too many calculations.
Lakers on the 2nd of a back to back, went to overtime and big minutes for LeBron on his way back to full fitness. Think Clips are favourites for tonight.