NBA Draft - R1 - Beam vs Onenil

With players in their peak, who would win?


  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .

Šjor Bepo

Zlatan is love, Zlatan is life — all hail Zlatan!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
11,761

vs




Team Beam

Playing all game:
Larry Bird & Bill Russell

Tactics: the idea was to build a team or players who will function as a collective and not a group of individuals with an immense winning mentality. Every player was also known for his passing and not ball hogging. Also, to build an attack who will give multiple defensive problems for the other defense with:

- Chris Paul as a dying type of PG who is there to keep the team ticking on the offensive side with his playmaking and assisting ability, penetration into the paint while also possessing brilliant shooting ability if you leave him open;

- Dražen Petrović as one of the best shooters during his time in NBA with one of, in not, the quickest releases of the ball in the game. He will go out of the blocks and take the shots hurting the opponent from the outside while they concentrate on bigger names;

- Larry Bird being Larry or all-around threat on the floor. His basketball intelligence was through the roof whether it was about scoring outside, inside or about finding his teammates around the court. Simply said one of the greatest players of all time and you could even put solid case for him being the most complete player in NBA history if you look at his peak;

- Giannis Antetokounmpo soon to be reigning league MVP at the age of 25! The player with pretty much never seen combination of size, speed, and ball-handling skills. While Petrović stretches the floor, Giannis will take massive advantage of Bird, Paul's, and even Russell's playmaking abilities. His numbers are absolutely insane playing with what is pretty much a bit above an average team without him, so in theory here it should go through the roof;

- Bill Russell as the greatest winner of all time, one of the greatest centers the league has ever seen, a rim protector, the rebounding magnet, and the perfect teammate. Oh, and most importantly a fitting answer for great Wilt Chamberlain on the other side whom he was able to slow down many times during their most important/playoff deciding games. It was common knowledge that Wilt was the more talented of the two, but Russell always gave his team a better chance to win and usually prevailed in those high stake games that decided NBA championship. Wilt was the better player in the regular season, whereas Russell flourished in the playoffs. Wilt was very often non-existent in the clutch or key situations, whereas Russell thrived in the intense situations. In short, Wilt was more about stats, while Bill was all about winning.

To add to his game, Bill was a competent scorer and a brilliant passer.

Russell's Assists Averages After Bob Cousy Retired

1963-64:
4.7

1964-65: 5.3

1965-66: 4.8

1966-67: 5.8

1967-68: 4.6

1968-69: 4.9

In short, Bill was all about the team in his game often initiating fast counter attacks after a rebound or finding an open man on a setup defense. He also averaged 22.5 rebounds per game along with 15 points during his 14 years long career.



Substitutions:



From the bench: Lou Williams, Andre Iguodala and Lamar Odom will give breathing space for Paul, Petrović, and Giannis.
Iguodala will have an especially important part coming off the bench with a mission to slow Magic as the game goes on. There are no many players who can slow Magic, but Iguodala is one of the best defenders in the league and with his quickness and size can poses problems for Magic on the offensive end like he already did to Lebron in NBA finals 2014/15 which earned him NBA finals MVP, especially as the game goes on.
Williams is one of the best players ever coming from the bench while Odom is a player who above all valued the concept of the team, playing unselfishly, so he fits this team brilliantly. Odom could score from the inside, outside, could dribble, and was an excellent rebounder, so it is pretty much perfect to rest Giannis with the team not losing much.


Team onenil

Retro-Modern Showtime


Point Guard - Magic Johnson
Greatest point guard of all time. Leader of Showtime and the greatest no look passer in NBA history. This side was built to maximize his passing skills and put on a show

Shooting Guard - Sidney Moncrief
Defensive beast and all-around player. Hounded Jordan and earned plaudits early in his career. Two time defensive player of the year. Great shooter and all-around star. Complements Magic with great defense and all-around play

Small Forward - Elgin Baylor
Monster scorer from the 1960s. In his peak he averaged 34.8, 38.3 and 34.0 points per game. Had a 71 point game. Perfect to finish off many of Magic's passes and a team player to complement Magic

Power Forward - Chris Webber
An underrated all-around star that "redefined" the power forward position setting the stage for the 2000s revolution in basketball style. A great all-around player that complements Magic by being able to dunk with the best and also hit a clutch 3-point shot, blocking shots and stealing the ball. A winner and a great all-around.

Center - Wilt Chamberlain
100 points in a game and a massive offensive threat in the front court.

BENCH
Jason Terry - Hit 9 3-pt shots during a playoff gamge, a record. 7th most 3-pt shots over his career. Terry will come off the bench for distance shooting
Bill Walton - 1978 NBA Most Valuable Player turned in the best Sixth Man of the Year for the Boston Celtics. Able to fill in for PF or C roles. Wildman. Fun guy.
Ron Artest - pre-Meta World Peace, Artest was a defensive monster winning the NBA best defensive player and then helping the Lakers to an NBA Championship. Will absolutely hound any opposing player and brought in for defense.
 

Jim Beam

The Joker
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
9,422
Location
All over the place
Larry "Legend" Bird; Don't let the legend be forgotten

The game has improved, players shot from the distances they never dared to do before. Yet, Larry is still considered by many as the greatest shooter of all time.



The famous story about him going into the locker room before 3-point shootout in 1986 looking at all opponents and asking out loud "Who's coming second? You all know who is gonna win this" and then walking out without even taking his warmup jacket winning the damn thing is well-known NBA legend story. But, to paint Larry as simply outstanding shooter would be totally wrong. He had it all.



But, now we go into how amazing he was in his prime.


Larry Bird career stats




Bird career stats are impressive, yet misleading. This is Bird at his 9-year peak where he was, well, judge for yourself...


Bird never from his rookie year finished lower then 4th in MVP voting (only once in his rookie year), won 3 consecutive and finished 2nd four time



His impact on Celtics.... Now am not putting anything away from Magic, but the fact is that Lakers were already a very good team. Celtics were bad and when Bird came they were brilliant.


After Bird joined Celtics, Celtics were never worse than 3rd in overall NBA ranking (once!), while joining them being 20th
"Larry, you only told me one lie. You said there will be another Larry Bird. Larry, there will never, ever be another Larry Bird."

-Magic Johnson, as quoted at Bird's retirement party.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

We mean it man, We love our queen!
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
4,241
Like the graphics way more than the football drafts (Never watched a game, so don’t understand what it means)
 

Baneofthegame

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2019
Messages
981
Great lineups by both teams:

- Feel Giannis is wasted in this matchup and actually clogs the middle for Chris Paul’s penetration.

- Beam has no one to guard Magic (In the starting 5), I assume Moncrief would be on Paul on the defensive end.

Personally feel Beam would have to pick and roll in a two man game with Paul with either Russell or Giannis to open up the floor for Bird and Petrovic to shoot effectively.

Shame Wilt ran into Russell in the first round, but that’s the luck of the draw.

Personally think it’s close, but I might edge it to Beam, Paul/Petrovic/Bird is good enough shooting to make up for Giannis, people underestimate how good prime Webber was in Sacramento, he could do everything.

Great matchup, tough to decide.
 

Jim Beam

The Joker
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
9,422
Location
All over the place
Thanks for the comments Bane. Will address some thoughts.

Great lineups by both teams:

- Feel Giannis is wasted in this matchup and actually clogs the middle for Chris Paul’s penetration.
One of Chris Paul's favorite moves is alley-oop or penetrating and then feeding the big man in the paint. If the defense tries to close him down he has 3 brilliant options (Petrovic at 3, Bird all around and Giannis for his favorite move). He also isn't half-bad for a shooter. Remember that Paul made Blake Griffin an All-Star in 5 out of 7 seasons in Clippers and without him Griffin only has one appearance. Giannis is on another level compared to him and I think Paul would send Giannis stats through the roof here considering how Griffin thrived playing with him.
Petrović was an important part in a sense I had to get another genuine 3-point shooter (along with Bird) to stretch the defense. I know that Petrović is generally a bit underrated, but he was an immense shooter. Am genuinely not sure if you want Moncrief on Paul all the time.
In his four-year career Dražen had the best shooting (50.6%) and 3-point percentage (43.7%) of all guards, even Michael Jordan and Reggie Miller were behind him.

His 43.7% puts him as the 4th best career percentage from 3-point in NBA history. Above Steph Curry.

- Beam has no one to guard Magic (In the starting 5), I assume Moncrief would be on Paul on the defensive end.
True. But then again, Danny Ainge was the one who was often on Magic during those matches with Celtics. The key to stopping Magic is to stop fast transition and penetration (you can't get tougher than going through Giannis and Russell in the paint). You allow him a bit more freedom from 3-point range and try to stop transition/penetration. Petrovic did a very good job against Jordan in every single matchup, he can't stop Magic, but he will not dominate him the same way Jordan never could. And then there is Iguodala off the bench to take over. I genuinely think (of course I do it is my team :wenger:) there will be more problems in stopping Bird and especially stopping various different problems that my attack can cause.

I love Webber with Magic and think it is great pairing. But, am not so convinced about Wilt though and he runs here against Russell of all people.
Butch van Breda Kolff - former Lakers coach
"The difference between Russell and Wilt was this: Russell would ask, 'What do I need to do to make my teammates better?' Then he'd do it. Wilt honestly thought the best way for his team to win was for him to be in the best possible setting. He'd ask, 'What's the best situation for me?' "

Jerry West
"I don't want to rap Wilt because I believe only Russell was better, and I really respect what Wilt did. But I have to say he wouldn't adjust to you, you had to adjust to him."
 
Last edited:

Baneofthegame

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2019
Messages
981
Thanks for the comments Bane. Will address some thoughts.



One of Chris Paul's favorite moves is alley-oop or penetrating and then feeding the big man in the paint. If the defense tries to close him down he has 3 brilliant options (Petrovic at 3, Bird all around and Giannis for his favorite move). He also isn't half-bad for a shooter. Remember that Paul made Blake Griffin an All-Star in 5 out of 7 seasons in Clippers and without him Griffin only has one appearance. Giannis is on another level compared to him and I think Paul would send Giannis stats through the roof here considering how Griffin thrived playing with him.
Petrović was an important part in a sense I had to get another genuine 3-point shooter (along with Bird) to stretch the defense. I know that Petrović is generally a bit underrated, but he was an immense shooter. Am genuinely not sure if you want Moncrief on Paul all the time.





True. But then again, Danny Ainge was the one who was often on Magic during those matches with Celtics. The key to stopping Magic is to stop fast transition and penetration (you can't get tougher than going through Giannis and Russell in the paint). You allow him a bit more freedom from 3-point range and try to stop transition/penetration. Petrovic did a very good job against Jordan in every single matchup, he can't stop Magic, but he will not dominate him the same way Jordan never could. And then there is Iguodala off the bench to take over. I genuinely think (of course I do it is my team :wenger:) there will be more problems in stopping Bird and especially stopping various different problems that my attack can cause.

I love Webber with Magic and think it is great pairing. But, am not so convinced about Wilt though and he runs here against Russell of all people.
Yeah, agree with your points, hence why I felt the pick and roll on the weak side with Paul would be great, but would probably be better with Russell to move Wilt away from the basket as Webber isn’t as good as a help side defender imo.

If I was Onenil I’d probably run as many PnR’s with Magic and Wilt, stretch the floor with Webber to move Giannis away from the basket.

With regards to Paul, he needs a high usage, I’m also not sure he made Griffin an all star as his production is fairly similar in Detroit he just plays on a garbage team and can’t stay healthy.

Also, Moncrief was a two time DPOY, id want him on Paul at all times as he’s a phenomenal player and Artest is on the bench who can come in on Drazen/Bird if necessary.

Baylors being slept on slightly as he’s a top 10 at worst SF of all time, I just have a slight issue with the spacing on onenils team to be honest.
 

Jim Beam

The Joker
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
9,422
Location
All over the place
1-1 :lol: First of all, I want to thank everyone who voted. If it wasn't for you two we would never achieved such a feat.

@Šjor Bepo what now? Shall we run P-nut game as a decider.

@oneniltothearsenal do you agree? Not too fussed about it, so if you have anything else to suggest, no problem.
 
Last edited:

crappycraperson

"Resident cricket authority"
Scout
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
37,111
Location
Interweb
I would have voted for one-nil
 

P-Nut

fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
17,873
Location
Oldham, Greater Manchester
It will need everyone to submit their teams to that website, and then figure out how to get them to play against each other. Once all teams are submitted I don't mind giving it a go though
 

Šjor Bepo

Zlatan is love, Zlatan is life — all hail Zlatan!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
11,761
think its best someone neutral does it as i didnt do it :lol:
@Synco you do the honours