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2020-21 Performances


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Adam-Utd

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Played the match like he was too good to try hard and didn't care whether we won or lost.

Pogba puts in more effort than that :lol: ridiculous performance.

For somebody who's supposed to our only defensive midfielder he sure doesn't actually defend.
 

Cutch

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Surely we should have been after Partey to address this position. With Partey we could have basically played any 2 infront of him. Now we have either an immobile Matic leaving us wide open or Fred/McTominay which basically comes as a double act leaving room for only one creative player infront.
 

Devil may care

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You know, it's not coincidence that our defense was better with Fred & Scott instead of Matic. Normally the issue is we can't break the team down, well yesterday our defense was also the issue.

Matic provides no protection, lazy to drop back and ball watching and even worst he misplaced lot of passes especially in first half when he played in midfield, so I don't know what game you were watching about this solid performance. You must have watched different game.
I'm not Matic's biggest fan but to try and absolve Maguire of yesterday's farce is wrong, Matic was picked for his distribution and it was why he was kept on, the fact is we are constantly sacrificing midfield to hold the CB's hands, Matic isn't the answer but he's not the major issue either, just like last night, he wasn't brilliant but he was far from the worst of the bunch.
 

Kostov

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I'm not Matic's biggest fan but to try and absolve Maguire of yesterday's farce is wrong, Matic was picked for his distribution and it was why he was kept on, the fact is we are constantly sacrificing midfield to hold the CB's hands, Matic isn't the answer but he's not the major issue either, just like last night, he wasn't brilliant but he was far from the worst of the bunch.
And why is pointing out how shit Matic was, absolving Maguire of any blame actually? Matic was appalling last night, and was lucky to not cost us another goal or two just for playing like a 90 year old grandma.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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@Master Yoda

The first goal was clear Matic & Bissaka fault, I don't know why you are trying to deny that.

The 2nd goal we conceded (video below) is not something you can blame on Maguire & Axel. Both of them were being dragged over to our right side for 2v2 situation which leaves the left sides wide open (since Shaw was overlapping so far ahead) and this is where the job of defensive midfield Matic to drop back to cover.

Guess, what he did? He provided no protection as he didn't cover, he jog back instead of rushing back, in fact Shaw who was pushed higher actually beats Matic back to our box (Which you can see the difference in starting positions between Shaw & Matic from picture below).




Let me give you example how a proper defensive midfield who sense danger and not ball watching which the aim is to protect defense (watch McT & Matic in that clip):


This is how you provide protection for defense. What Matic did yesterday wasn't solid at all. We would have avoid at least both goals or at least one of them if Mct and Fred playing.
@Devil may care

Both goals were part of his mistake. Read that my post I just quoted and counter it if you disagree.

It’s just not coincidence how our defense was much better when the midfield was Fred or Scott. Don’t you think it should tell you that the biggest problem in our defense last night wasn’t the back four but actually the midfield that played in front of them.
 

Devil may care

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And why is pointing out how shit Matic was, absolving Maguire of any blame actually? Matic was appalling last night, and was lucky to not cost us another goal or two just for playing like a 90 year old grandma.
Maguire was as much to blame for both goals, that's what I'm saying, I don't give a shit about Matic for the record, I never wanted us to buy him let alone still be playing him 3 years on, but people are looking in the wrong direction for the issues, the problems begin with the CB's needing so much protection and it's a selection chain reaction from there.

@Devil may care

Both goals were part of his mistake. Read that my post I just quoted and counter it if you disagree.

It’s just not coincidence how our defense was much better when the midfield was Fred or Scott. Don’t you think it should tell you that the biggest problem in our defense last night wasn’t the back four but actually the midfield that played in front of them.
I already said he was partly to blame for the first goal, the second is Maguire's fault, he didn't need to come across and leave a gaping hole.

Of course they look better as all those two do is run around non stop, holding the CB's hands because they can't do their job properly, but then we sacrifice our on the ball side of the game as both are average at best in possession.
 

Dve

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Your holding midfielder's job is to hold, Matic isn't a threat in the box and Maguire is the captain, how did he not tell anyone in the team to drop back? That's what leaders are supposed to do.
Matic as the tallest player on the field is not a threat in the box? And sometimes people make it sound like it´s the captain´s role to babysit the other players on the field. Normally, I believe it´s Bissaka´s job to cover on corners and that seemed to be case also yesterday.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Maguire was as much to blame for both goals, that's what I'm saying, I don't give a shit about Matic for the record, I never wanted us to buy him let alone still be playing him 3 years on, but people are looking in the wrong direction for the issues, the problems begin with the CB's needing so much protection and it's a selection chain reaction from there.



I already said he was partly to blame for the first goal, the second is Maguire's fault, he didn't need to come across and leave a gaping hole.

Of course they look better as all those two do is run around non stop, holding the CB's hands because they can't do their job properly, but then we sacrifice our on the ball side of the game as both are average at best in possession.
You have to explain why Maguire didn’t need to come across. I’m struggling to understand how you can blame Maguire to go towards Demba Ba, if he didn’t then Ba would have been one on one against Dean and I bet you would have blame Maguire if he’s didn’t come across towards Ba and Ba end up scoring that.

That was 2v4 situation against us. The duty of midfielders to help and both Donny & Matic failed to do so. Matic is supposed to be a defensive midfield and it should be his natural job to sense the danger, drop back and run but he only jog, ball watching, lazy and being out-runned by Shaw who was much further forward than Matic

Not the first time Matic done it and It wouldn’t happen if we have Scott or Fred instead like in this clip.

 
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Dve

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He's done as a top level footballer. Not switched on, not following runners from midfield, no pace or passion.
People said the same thing about him one year ago, but then he came back to deliver a good second half of the season. So I think it´s taking it too far to say he´s done as a top level footballer, but he hasn´t been good so far this season, I agree on that. And it´s a collective anyway; often everyone is having a good match, or no one is having a good match. When the team perform badly, this also reflects on the individuals.
 

Bilbo

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People said the same thing about him one year ago, but then he came back to deliver a good second half of the season. So I think it´s taking it too far to say he´s done as a top level footballer, but he hasn´t been good so far this season, I agree on that. And it´s a collective anyway; often everyone is having a good match, or no one is having a good match. When the team perform badly, this also reflects on the individuals.
I agree that fans are far too quick to write players off, however his regression in form since signing a new contract with us is really quite alarming.
 

Devil may care

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Matic as the tallest player on the field is not a threat in the box? And sometimes people make it sound like it´s the captain´s role to babysit the other players on the field. Normally, I believe it´s Bissaka´s job to cover on corners and that seemed to be case also yesterday.
Being tall doesn't mean you're good in the air, I can't recall a headed goal for us from Matic from a set piece, he's more use patrolling, and it is the job of the supposed leader of the team to be aware of our organization at a set piece and make sure younger, less experienced players are switched on, otherwise what is he Captain for? Organization and leadership are his duties, unless you're one of those Messi type captains where it's about inspiration.


You have to explain why Maguire didn’t need to come across. I’m struggling to understand how you can blame Maguire to go towards Demba Ba, if he didn’t then Ba would have been one on one against Dean and I bet you would have blame Maguire if he’s didn’t come across towards Ba and Ba end up scoring that.

That was 2v4 situation against us. The duty of midfielders to help and both Donny & Matic failed to do so. Matic is supposed to be a defensive midfield and it should be his natural job to sense the danger, drop back and run but he only jog, ball watching, lazy and being out-runned by Shaw who was much further forward than Matic

Not the first time Matic done it and It wouldn’t happen if we have Scott or Fred instead like in this clip.

Maguire let himself get pulled across negating his position, he's supposed to be the senior player back there but he couldn't organize a chuck raffle in Kentucky. Matic isn't good enough I'm not disputing that, but expecting him to be able to sprint back is like expecting a semi truck to handle like a Porsche, we know he's immobile and slow, this isn't news.

You keep going back to the dog soldiers, i get it, I mean they were both fecking trash against Arsenal but lets ignore that, for the most part when their job is simple and they just have to stand square of each other and hustle around they can do that, and it's Christmas for our incompetent CB partnership as it removes a chunk of their responsibility, it also means our use of the ball diminishes but that really sums it up with the inbalance in this squad, too many players who have gaping weaknesses in their game.
 

Kostov

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Maguire was as much to blame for both goals, that's what I'm saying, I don't give a shit about Matic for the record, I never wanted us to buy him let alone still be playing him 3 years on, but people are looking in the wrong direction for the issues, the problems begin with the CB's needing so much protection and it's a selection chain reaction from there.
Maybe Maguire should have reminded his fellow 32 year old veteran for the basics of keeping track as the last man, as he was the closes left to keep an eye on Demba Ba, otherwise I don't know how is Maguire responsible for that first goal. Then Mata on the second goal is all you need to know about it.

And can you tell me who are these CBs that don't need protection? Liverpool give their best CB a Fabinho, Henderson and Wijaldum or whatever the feck his name is, Arsenal played with Partey and Elneny on Sunday. Maybe if we had half a brain in our management team, we would have gone for a proper CDM and not waste time on someone like Matic, or we have to play both Fred and McT in order to get one functioning CM pivot.
 

Dve

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Being tall doesn't mean you're good in the air, I can't recall a headed goal for us from Matic from a set piece, he's more use patrolling, and it is the job of the supposed leader of the team to be aware of our organization at a set piece and make sure younger, less experienced players are switched on, otherwise what is he Captain for? Organization and leadership are his duties, unless you're one of those Messi type captains where it's about inspiration.
No it doesn´t, but being slow means it will seldom be your job to cover on corners...

Yes, the captain should guide the younger players, but these days Maguire is blamed for whatever happens on the pitch, just because he´s the captain. People expect him to score from corners and organise the defence at the same time.
 

Foxbatt

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Both AWB and Matic along with Mata and Bruno are also responsible for the first.
AWB was the dedicated last defender. Everyone knows that. They have no business involving him in the short corner. Then they should know the basics of short corners. Which is maximum of three touches and the cross comes in.
Then AWB has no business in trying to join the attack there as he should see and know his responsibility at that moment in time is defend as the last man because both our CBs and left back is forward for the corner.
Matic was goal side when this started as he should be. As the play went on he moved closer to AWB in case AWB he wants to pass. AWB should have passed to Matic instead of trying to get forward.
Why did Matic move to the right? I have no idea. Is Matic going to get to Ba? No not even if he was level. It wasn't a pass. It was a kick upfield.
 

Adam-Utd

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Surely we should have been after Partey to address this position. With Partey we could have basically played any 2 infront of him. Now we have either an immobile Matic leaving us wide open or Fred/McTominay which basically comes as a double act leaving room for only one creative player infront.
Yep. We should have bought Partey with the DVB money and then could have happily played Fernandes and Fred alongside him, or Pogba instead.

This is what is odd with the club, they seem so blind to the obvious. I think they've pencilled Mctominay into that role so he'll forever be the CDM until they decide he's not good enough.
 

Devil may care

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Maybe Maguire should have reminded his fellow 32 year old veteran for the basics of keeping track as the last man, as he was the closes left to keep an eye on Demba Ba, otherwise I don't know how is Maguire responsible for that first goal. Then Mata on the second goal is all you need to know about it.

And can you tell me who are these CBs that don't need protection? Liverpool give their best CB a Fabinho, Henderson and Wijaldum or whatever the feck his name is, Arsenal played with Partey and Elneny on Sunday. Maybe if we had half a brain in our management team, we would have gone for a proper CDM and not waste time on someone like Matic, or we have to play both Fred and McT in order to get one functioning CM pivot.
Well Mata was given a dreadful ball and things went like a row of collapsing dominoes from there. I feel we are talking at cross purposes, I mean I'm debating with you who blames Matic and Dve who is defending Matic who I already said was partly to blame, so let me be clear, if we sold Matic and indeed Mata in January I'd be happy, but Maguire is a problem as well, moreso because he cost double his worth and has been made captain despite not displaying the attributes, so he's undroppable yet isn't anywhere near good enough to have that kind of spot at United. On the first goal Maguire as Captain should be telling AWB or Matic to get closer to Ba, that's what leaders do, they guide younger, less experienced players or bollock their peers.

Again cross wires, you've summed up what I've been saying, CB's need cover but it's heightened because we play a slow immobile combo and in order to protect them we need two dog soldiers who can't pass water, even with a worldie DM we'd still have issues as having two CB's with the exact same weakness requires double protection.

No it doesn´t, but being slow means it will seldom be your job to cover on corners...

Yes, the captain should guide the younger players, but these days Maguire is blamed for whatever happens on the pitch, just because he´s the captain. People expect him to score from corners and organise the defence at the same time.
He didn’t need to be fast to be aware of Ba and simply get tight to him or indeed instruct AWB to get closer to him.

I expect him to do something as simple as organize his teammates at set pieces if he's Captain, or he could give the armband to someone more suited and just focus on being a solid CB. I said when we bought him he's a decent CB, nothing more, the club have positioned him as world class and a leader when he's neither, so many are judging him as how he's presented by the English media and our club.
 

Foxbatt

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Well Mata was given a dreadful ball and things went like a row of collapsing dominoes from there. I feel we are talking at cross purposes, I mean I'm debating with you who blames Matic and Dve who is defending Matic who I already said was partly to blame, so let me be clear, if we sold Matic and indeed Mata in January I'd be happy, but Maguire is a problem as well, moreso because he cost double his worth and has been made captain despite not displaying the attributes, so he's undroppable yet isn't anywhere near good enough to have that kind of spot at United. On the first goal Maguire as Captain should be telling AWB or Matic to get closer to Ba, that's what leaders do, they guide younger, less experienced players or bollock their peers.

Again cross wires, you've summed up what I've been saying, CB's need cover but it's heightened because we play a slow immobile combo and in order to protect them we need two dog soldiers who can't pass water, even with a worldie DM we'd still have issues as having two CB's with the exact same weakness requires double protection.



He didn’t need to be fast to be aware of Ba and simply get tight to him or indeed instruct AWB to get closer to him.

I expect him to do something as simple as organize his teammates at set pieces if he's Captain, or he could give the armband to someone more suited and just focus on being a solid CB. I said when we bought him he's a decent CB, nothing more, the club have positioned him as world class and a leader when he's neither, so many are judging him as how he's presented by the English media and our club.
Not for the first goal. As probably planned he and Axel was arriving into the box for the corner. Matic was also on edge of the box and DVB was going inside. Rashford was not even lookin at what was happening at that time as no one expected what Bruno and Mata did. AWB who won the corner was back tracking to his position. They then made the basic mistake of even a short corner of fannying around there with everyone out of position. Especially the last defending player AWB. Then they made it worse by playing the ball to him and then he made it worse by not putting in a cross or simply playing back to Matic who was in a good position then. AWB then decided to go on a run with the ball into the right wing position with the two CBs in the opposing box and no one to cover in defence. He fecked it more by not putting in a decent cross.
Matic even if he was closer to Ba is not going to get the ball. Ba is quicker than him and it was a punt upfield.
Nothing much Maguire could do in that instant. It is all AWB's fault and Mata and Bruno.
 

Devil may care

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Not for the first goal. As probably planned he and Axel was arriving into the box for the corner. Matic was also on edge of the box and DVB was going inside. Rashford was not even lookin at what was happening at that time as no one expected what Bruno and Mata did. AWB who won the corner was back tracking to his position. They then made the basic mistake of even a short corner of fannying around there with everyone out of position. Especially the last defending player AWB. Then they made it worse by playing the ball to him and then he made it worse by not putting in a cross or simply playing back to Matic who was in a good position then. AWB then decided to go on a run with the ball into the right wing position with the two CBs in the opposing box and no one to cover in defence. He fecked it more by not putting in a decent cross.
Matic even if he was closer to Ba is not going to get the ball. Ba is quicker than him and it was a punt upfield.
Nothing much Maguire could do in that instant. It is all AWB's fault and Mata and Bruno.
Mata and Bruno were part of the problem for the second goal, not the first, unless I'm misunderstanding you, at this point we have that many takes on who's to blame it's like Rashamon. Bottom line is what the goal shows is no leadership in the team or from the sidelines, as Ole, Carrick and co didn’t yell at AWB or Matic despite Ba standing in acres of space. To me on a set piece the Captain isn't just a part of the play, he's organizing the others so the team he's leader of are on the same page, Maguire only look after his own game.
 

Foxbatt

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Mata and Bruno were part of the problem for the second goal, not the first, unless I'm misunderstanding you, at this point we have that many takes on who's to blame it's like Rashamon. Bottom line is what the goal shows is no leadership in the team or from the sidelines, as Ole, Carrick and co didn’t yell at AWB or Matic despite Ba standing in acres of space. To me on a set piece the Captain isn't just a part of the play, he's organizing the others so the team he's leader of are on the same page, Maguire only look after his own game.
No you don't understand what I am saying. Short corners are not taken and then play around there with everyone up in the box.
They should have seen that when they took the short corner. They should not have got AWB involved in the short corner knowing that he is the last defender. What I am saying is that they should have crossed it earlier and they should not have passed the ball to him.
Once they got him involved AWB should have crossed it or passed to Matic who was in a good position to receive the pass.
Then AWB made it worse by trying to go outside of the defender and messing his cross.
The only fault of Matic is not realizing that Ba has moved forward. But the bigger mistake was from AWB and then Bruno and Mata.
The second goal was Mata for me. That ball was not such a bad ball that a PL player can't control.
To me Axel and Maguire had no choice. Maguire had to go to Ba. Or else Ba would be clear. Where was Shaw for that goal? Or Matic?
 

SAFMUTD

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Im so glad we gave him a new contract that runs out until June 2023 just because he play well for 3-4 months last year smart decision that will pay off.
 

ManU Irish

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Matic never looks like he cares on the pitch, Daniel Harris said on Irish Radio on Monday that Ole will get the sack if he continues to pick two players Matic and Pogba and I would agree 100%, neither should be anywhere near a starting 11 against any opposition.
 

Kostov

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Well Mata was given a dreadful ball and things went like a row of collapsing dominoes from there. I feel we are talking at cross purposes, I mean I'm debating with you who blames Matic and Dve who is defending Matic who I already said was partly to blame, so let me be clear, if we sold Matic and indeed Mata in January I'd be happy, but Maguire is a problem as well, moreso because he cost double his worth and has been made captain despite not displaying the attributes, so he's undroppable yet isn't anywhere near good enough to have that kind of spot at United. On the first goal Maguire as Captain should be telling AWB or Matic to get closer to Ba, that's what leaders do, they guide younger, less experienced players or bollock their peers.

Again cross wires, you've summed up what I've been saying, CB's need cover but it's heightened because we play a slow immobile combo and in order to protect them we need two dog soldiers who can't pass water, even with a worldie DM we'd still have issues as having two CB's with the exact same weakness requires double protection.
Maguire is undropable because we have no one better not because we paid 80m pounds. And despite everything he was one of the few better players yesterday.

Also matic is a 32 year old veteran, if it is required to tell him what to do in that situations then the lord help us. Maguire was waiting on a cross in order to help us score. Maguire is obviously a player with limitations, but he’s one of the best CB in the league. We struggle to score goals no matter who plays in midfield, I think it’s more than the CB protection that limits our attacking play.

A wordie DM would transform that midfield, it’s one of the most crucial roles in a team. It’s been neglected for years.
 

RayK47

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People said the same thing about him one year ago, but then he came back to deliver a good second half of the season. So I think it´s taking it too far to say he´s done as a top level footballer, but he hasn´t been good so far this season, I agree on that. And it´s a collective anyway; often everyone is having a good match, or no one is having a good match. When the team perform badly, this also reflects on the individuals.
This should be his phasing out season if McTominay takes his chances.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Maguire let himself get pulled across negating his position, he's supposed to be the senior player back there but he couldn't organize a chuck raffle in Kentucky. Matic isn't good enough I'm not disputing that, but expecting him to be able to sprint back is like expecting a semi truck to handle like a Porsche, we know he's immobile and slow, this isn't news.

You keep going back to the dog soldiers, i get it, I mean they were both fecking trash against Arsenal but lets ignore that, for the most part when their job is simple and they just have to stand square of each other and hustle around they can do that, and it's Christmas for our incompetent CB partnership as it removes a chunk of their responsibility, it also means our use of the ball diminishes but that really sums it up with the inbalance in this squad, too many players who have gaping weaknesses in their game.
You need to explain why do you think Maguire should let Ba to be in one on one situation against Dean? It doesn’t make sense to let a striker to be one on one against keeper, Maguire did the right thing to do since it was 2v2.

The other two players that decided to push forward were next or on the similar line as Matic when Mata about to lose the ball. Matic has to take the blame decided to be ball watching not rushing back and following his man.



The clip I showed you wasn’t mean to tell you players need to be dog soldiers. Midfield need to do his job to follow his man, that’s basic. If midfield doesn’t do that then our centre back will be in the situation of 2v4 like against Istanbul. When it’s in 2v4 situation, it means fecked already.
 
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He'sRaldo

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Mata and Bruno as much as to blame for the feck up. Yes there is no business for AWB to be in that postion.
This is what happend. AWB and Mata combined and AWB crossed the ball and it was headed out for a corner. AWB was back tracking to his defensive position and Matic had run into the edge of their box. Axel and Maguire was just arriving into their box. None of our players was ready when Bruno and Mata combined to take a short corner. AWB had not reached even close to the centre line when they took the short corner. We had only three players in the box. Martial, Rashford and DVB who was just arriving.
To me the fault lies with Bruno and Mata. They should have never taken that short corner because it was too quick. They should have never passed it back to AWB. When the whole thing started Matic was goalside of Ba. By a decent bit. But as the game moved Ba started moving forward and Matic started moving to the right. When AWB received the ball he had the time and space to put a cross in. He decided against it and tried to beat his man outside and he failed to put in a cross. He fell as he put in the cross. Before he decided to beat his man he could have passed it back to Matic who was free and behind him. Matic was at the edge of the box and as the short corner was taken he moved back.
To me the mistake Matic made was not bringing back AWB. There was no way Matic was going to beat Ba to the ball as it was not a pass but a clearance up field.
The question is, was that set piece even rehearsed if no one expected it or knew what was going on? Why did AWB go to join in if it was rehearsed? Logically on the training ground it would be pointed out that AWB should stya back no matter what, so did he just forget? Or was it all off the cuff from Bruno and Mata?
 

Adam-Utd

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Be honest: do you really think that he does?
Honestly? in that game no he didn't looked fussed at all. Probably thought we've won our first 2 already and we will be better than these lot so it didn't really matter.

Watching his effort in the 1st half was frankly a joke. 2nd half he was better where he didn't have to run - but this is the issue, we're playing midfielders who can't run anymore.

On the 2nd goal especially he should have been busting a gut to get back and help the defence, even Shaw made it back before him and he was even higher up the pitch!
 

Bestietom

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Surely we should have been after Partey to address this position. With Partey we could have basically played any 2 infront of him. Now we have either an immobile Matic leaving us wide open or Fred/McTominay which basically comes as a double act leaving room for only one creative player infront.
Agree, Partey, Soumare, or Zakaria....
 

Foxbatt

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The question is, was that set piece even rehearsed if no one expected it or knew what was going on? Why did AWB go to join in if it was rehearsed? Logically on the training ground it would be pointed out that AWB should stya back no matter what, so did he just forget? Or was it all off the cuff from Bruno and Mata?
I would say from the reaction of the players it was off the cuff. AWB was back tracking when suddenly the ball was passed to him.
The set piece can't be practised because there was no covering at all. Rashford was not even looking at the corner when it was taken.
This was a school boy error by Bruno and Mata.
They should have put the cross in even if they took a short corner.
AWB had a couple of options left to him even after he received the ball. He could have put a cross in. He could have passed it to Matic. He didn't do either. He took the worst option there. Which was to try and take the defender on the wing when all our CBs are in the opposition box with the two slowest players and one slow player defending. It's utter madness. It's AWB's fault ultimately with Bruno and Mata and Matic involved.
 
Man Utd 1:0 West Brom New

el3mel

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Oct 23, 2016
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Maybe he'll discover his form later on this season like the last one, but so far he has been mostly poor whenever he played. Looks shot physically.

Always loved him but might be the time to move on from him by the end of this season.
 

#07

makes new threads with tweets in the OP
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Oct 25, 2010
Messages
18,496
Matic worried me this evening. There were no standouts on our side in a positive sense. However, in a negative sense I thought Matic was worryingly bad. Definitely not anywhere near his best right now.
 

Red00012

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Jan 18, 2018
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Can’t believe he played 90mins , presumely because he won’t be starting Tuesday night
 

Santos J

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Dec 8, 2013
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Thought he was shite today. There's definitely games where he can still be useful for us but West Brom at home isn't one of them.
 

R'hllor

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Jun 6, 2013
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12,848
Now now, dont forget what was said when he got his contract extension.
 

slored1

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May 15, 2016
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Played like he discovered what football is for the first time. Took about 4 touches too many every time and got dribbled past 10293993 times.