Television Netflix announces 3 new Dave Chappelle comedy specials

entropy

Full Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
10,428
Location
Where's my arc, Paulie?
Trans people (all people) deserve to be treated fairly and the same. Although that's not the world we live in that is what I believe.

Treating trans people fairly includes making fun of them, just like comedians make fun of everybody else. If you exclude them from that then you are giving them preferential treatment and are treating them (or everybody else) unfairly.
Yeah, I don’t think this is “fair” or the right thing to do tbh. We’ll never agree on this. I don’t see why you absolutely feel the need to make fun of someone. It’s just weird af.
 

Sweet Square

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
16,972
Location
The Zone
Get the feeling Chappelle talking about trans issues is a way of padding out what is another poor special.
 

Berbaclass

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
22,369
Location
Cooper Station
Like I said, I don’t necessarily agree with this premise. You can be a comedian without taking the piss out of someone who identifies as trans. It’s not that difficult.
Why is it such a big deal if you were to do that? They are just regular people like anybody else. Chappelle has been told and criticized that he's not allowed to make fun of them etc. and as a comedian, he's going to explore that boundary.
 

entropy

Full Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
10,428
Location
Where's my arc, Paulie?
Why is it such a big deal if you were to do that? They are just regular people like anybody else. Chappelle has been told and criticized that he's not allowed to make fun of them etc. and as a comedian, he's going to explore that boundary.
Well for starters trans people don’t have the same legal rights as you and me. They don’t have access to healthcare like you and me. They are constantly treated terribly by cops. As we speak, multiple states are looking for ways to ban them from accessing basic healthcare. The list is endless.
 

Berbaclass

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
22,369
Location
Cooper Station
Well for starters trans people don’t have the same legal rights as you and me. They don’t have access to healthcare like you and me. They are constantly treated terribly by cops. As we speak, multiple states are looking for ways to ban them from accessing basic healthcare. The list is endless.
Which is all bad. Obviously.
 

Eriku

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
15,136
Location
Oslo, Norway
Sure. As a parallell, there's this mantra a lot of online right wingers and centrists have at the moment that "racism has lost all meaning" because apparantly everything is racist nowadays. You'll find variants of takes here, some saying that being called a racist is a badge of honor (because the wokies and lefties are so stupid), etc. etc. These people often don't actually see themselves as racists, but what they're doing still says something about them.

Even if Chappelle doesn't believe that he is transphobic, calling himself a transphobe ironically isn't some neutral act. It illustrates what he thinks of the criticism he has gotten for his helicopter jokes and all the other stuff. He doesn't take it seriously, and he's laughing about it. Some people might think that's a bad thing, especially if some people have a dead friend that Chappelle is using as a shield.
Sure, it’s a spectrum and within it you find all sorts. What reaction do you expect from a comic who thinks he’s being unfairly labelled a transphobe though? Laughing it off is to be expected. And if someone critiquing him thinks he’s a transphobe, why would they be shocked and surprised to find such a person is laughing it off, or ironically using the label themselves?

I just find it puzzling that this was mentioned in the post, as it’s either missing the point, or it’s making a big deal of something totally expected, and that’s not really part of his punches, merelt a reaction to the reaction he’s been getting.

Anyway, I do agree that it’s disappointing that none of the feedback he’s been getting gives him pause, and that he’s gone out of his way to hold on to the subject matter. And it’s rich for him to say the trans community isn’t listening to him, and that he’s mainly mentioned them as a contrast to how black America is doing. That’s disingenuous. This all started as some sort of "aren’t they weird?!" bit on his part, so I definitely agree with him getting some pushback.
 

Sweet Square

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
16,972
Location
The Zone
He's just not that funny any more.
Yep. His basically too rich and famous to come up with anything decent anymore. The Chappelle show is his best work and it's still a pretty amazing sketch show but at least for me anyway he was never one of the best stand ups of all time or even of his generation.


This big debate people are having over it is a bit odd because the two sides arguing against each pretty much agree that it was a poor unfunny special. And if the clown isn't funny who gives a shit what he has to say.
 

nimic

have you watched hornblower yet?
Scout
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
22,881
Location
And I'm all out of bubblegum.
Yep. His basically too rich and famous to come up with anything decent anymore. The Chappelle show is his best work and it's still a pretty amazing sketch show but at least for me anyway he was never one of the best stand ups of all time or even of his generation.


This big debate people are having over it is a bit odd because the two sides arguing against each pretty much agree that it was a poor unfunny special. And if the clown isn't funny who gives a shit what he has to say.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
24,219
Location
Moscow
My main beef with him is that comedians like Dave Chappelle — who made their name by discussing difficult and controversial topics in the form of a stand up, simply have to do their due diligence on that topic. He clearly didn't, so he comes across as lazy and ignorant even if not really malicious — and, to add insult to injury, his special simply isn't that funny either (just like any stand up that still does generic bits on cancel culture nowadays).

Acaster though :drool:
 

Eriku

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
15,136
Location
Oslo, Norway
My main beef with him is that comedians like Dave Chappelle — who made their name by discussing difficult and controversial topics in the form of a stand up, simply have to do their due diligence on that topic. He clearly didn't, so he comes across as lazy and ignorant even if not really malicious — and, to add insult to injury, his special simply isn't that funny either (just like any stand up that still does generic bits on cancel culture nowadays).

Acaster though :drool:
Indeed. Confusing gender and sex certainly undermines the notion that his opinion should be heard.
 

Berbaclass

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
22,369
Location
Cooper Station
I mean if you don’t find Dave Chappelle funny or aren’t interested in what he has to say then just don’t watch him :lol:
 

Sweet Square

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
16,972
Location
The Zone
I mean if you don’t find Dave Chappelle funny or aren’t interested in what he has to say then just don’t watch him
Tbh you kind of have to watch him to find out if he isn't funny or hasn't anything interesting to say.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
24,219
Location
Moscow
I mean if you don’t find Dave Chappelle funny or aren’t interested in what he has to say then just don’t watch him :lol:
Well, he was very funny at some point. Less so, but still funny after that. I wasn’t watching it knowing that I wouldn’t like it obviously.
 

rotherham_red

Full Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
7,244
Yeah, getting worked up about him saying she bombed is a bit silly. It was her 6th, 7th time onstage? I’m in the stand-up scene, and becoming good enough to do well for 45 mins takes YEARS. Hardly a surprise.

Getting worked up about him calling himself a TERF and transphobic…obviously a comedic device, really weird thing to latch on to.

I’m someone who thinks he would have done well to limit it to one special, and I have qualms with how much he pushes Daphne ahead of him for credibility, but that write-up is missing the point to a large extent. At any rate what is clear is that Dave is toying with the emotions of one of the most vulnerable minorities out there today. Is he that hard-up for material?
It's really sad that this seems to be the hill he wants to die on.

I literally grew up on Chappelle and he was my first, and perhaps only comedic idol. Like, I knew of him from his Def Comedy Jam days and the appearances in Blue Streak and Nutty Professor in the late-90s. I saw Killin Em Softly and For What It's Worth multiple times, I would torrent Chappelle's Show the day after it was aired in the US back in the early-noughties, heck I even bought Seasons 1 and 2 of it on DVD from Amazon despite me knowing I didn't have a region-free DVD player. And when I was old enough and he started touring internationally again, I've been to 2 of his shows and will be going to the 3rd one next week.

But his Netflix specials haven't been of the same level. The closest and only genuinely good-great one was 8:46 and that wasn't even on Netflix.

The worst thing is, I know the old Dave is there, deep inside. The one who was funny, insightful, and melancholic in one package. Who wasn't afraid to put his head above the parapet even if it cost him materially. The old Dave wouldn't have bothered with at least half of the material he's put in these Netflix specials. And yet, this Dave has.
 

sebsheep

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
6,323
Location
Here

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2021/oct/09/dave-chappelle-letter-trans-comedian-netflix

Came across the youtube video in a comments section and felt it was there was some pretty decent criticism of the show as well as talking about some of the context around the reef stuff. Personally felt she was a bit too easy on him for his lack of understanding around the issue and how he went about it, Chapelle pointing out that he's been getting criticism for around 16 years for some of his jokes but is still using jokes he doesn't need to.
Some interesting points about discussions that need to be had and around lbtq+ issues and non-white voices not necessarily being heard as much.
Guardian article was linked in the comments section which went in on him just a little bit harder. :lol:
 
Last edited:

rotherham_red

Full Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
7,244
I'm not personally offended by anything Chappelle said in his specials, it wasn't directed at me. However I was uncomfortable that such big chunks of his recent shows were aimed squarely at belittling a minority that already faces verbal and physical abuse on a daily basis. Same with the likes of Glinner and J.K. Rowling using their platform to undermine. Its not shining a light on a social issue, its bullying.
Yeah, this is where I stand. It's just so unnecessary and unbecoming of him.
 

BD

technologically challenged
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
17,894
Having never seen anything from Dave Chapelle before, I thought I'd give this a go so I can get more background for all this controversy.

Firstly, I'm 20 minutes in and it's terrible.

Secondly, which is nearly just as annoying as Chapelle slagging gay people (I haven't even gotten to the transgender parts yet), how 'easy' is this audience? They're cracking up at every half sentence he speaks, with someone in the crowd wailing with laughter each time. I guess that comes with being one of the most famous comedians in the world, but my god is it annoying.
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
14,191
Location
And Solskjær has won it!
Having never seen anything from Dave Chapelle before, I thought I'd give this a go so I can get more background for all this controversy.

Firstly, I'm 20 minutes in and it's terrible.

Secondly, which is nearly just as annoying as Chapelle slagging gay people (I haven't even gotten to the transgender parts yet), how 'easy' is this audience? They're cracking up at every half sentence he speaks, with someone in the crowd wailing with laughter each time. I guess that comes with being one of the most famous comedians in the world, but my god is it annoying.
You find it annoying that people are laughing at a comedy show?
 

BD

technologically challenged
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
17,894
You find it annoying that people are laughing at a comedy show?
Yeah I realise it sounds thick - I guess it's mostly cause I'm not finding it funny, so these people cracking up with his every utterance grates a bit.
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
14,191
Location
And Solskjær has won it!
Yeah I realise it sounds thick - I guess it's mostly cause I'm not finding it funny, so these people cracking up with his every utterance grates a bit.
Fair enough mate, I see what you mean.

I can't watch stand-up for more than 10-15 minutes if I'm not finding it funny.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
15,535
Location
Inside right
It's really sad that this seems to be the hill he wants to die on.

I literally grew up on Chappelle and he was my first, and perhaps only comedic idol. Like, I knew of him from his Def Comedy Jam days and the appearances in Blue Streak and Nutty Professor in the late-90s. I saw Killin Em Softly and For What It's Worth multiple times, I would torrent Chappelle's Show the day after it was aired in the US back in the early-noughties, heck I even bought Seasons 1 and 2 of it on DVD from Amazon despite me knowing I didn't have a region-free DVD player. And when I was old enough and he started touring internationally again, I've been to 2 of his shows and will be going to the 3rd one next week.

But his Netflix specials haven't been of the same level. The closest and only genuinely good-great one was 8:46 and that wasn't even on Netflix.

The worst thing is, I know the old Dave is there, deep inside. The one who was funny, insightful, and melancholic in one package. Who wasn't afraid to put his head above the parapet even if it cost him materially. The old Dave wouldn't have bothered with at least half of the material he's put in these Netflix specials. And yet, this Dave has.
What seats do you have?

To your second bolded: you should be in for a very interesting show as he'll no doubt address the outcry.
 

Sweet Square

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
16,972
Location
The Zone
Or people need to understand he's aware no-one should be taking what he says seriously? As a comedian in his act since its literally meant as a joke, or outside of his act because his opinion is worth no more than any other.
I agree with you that no one should take anything Chappelle says seriously
And if the clown isn't funny who gives a shit what he has to say.
but sadly Dave disagrees.

8 46 pretty much has zero jokes, it's not a stand up show and there's plenty of times in this show where Chappelle stops telling jokes and instead puts forward social commentary and wants the audience to take him seriously. The biggest problem with his recent specials isn't the conservative social views(He's a very rich famous guy after all) but his piss poor jokes. To the point where it seems like a lot of social commentary of the last few years has been padding to make up for the lack of good material.

Like a ton of other comedians he has just got old, grumpy, out of touch and boring.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
24,219
Location
Moscow

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2021/oct/09/dave-chappelle-letter-trans-comedian-netflix

Came across the youtube video in a comments section and felt it was there was some pretty decent criticism of the show as well as talking about some of the context around the reef stuff. Personally felt she was a bit too easy on him for his lack of understanding around the issue and how he went about it, Chapelle pointing out that he's been getting criticism for around 16 years for some of his jokes but is still using jokes he doesn't need to.
Some interesting points about discussions that need to be had and around lbtq+ issues and non-white voices not necessarily being heard as much.
Guardian article was linked in the comments section which went in on him just a little bit harder. :lol:
Great video that (unsurprisingly) worded the issues that I've had with this special way better than I did.
 

stepic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
7,857
Location
London
Black people, native Americans, Muslims, Chinese, Jews and countless other groups have the piss taken out of them in stand ups, DC didn't start it. Whether you think that should be off limits is a different argument.
how many modern comedians make racist, homophobic or antisemetic jokes these days? Do we not cringe when we see this kind of humour from comedians from the 70s and 80s?
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
1,271
how many modern comedians make racist, homophobic or antisemetic jokes these days? Do we not cringe when we see this kind of humour from comedians from the 70s and 80s?
I can’t remember who but I still hear race and religious jokes. Not a big thing, if it’s funny audience laughs and move on.

This dictation about what we can and can’t find funny or joke about is what needs to get cancelled. Humour is what separates us from other animals and the ability to appreciate dark or offensive humour and detach it from reality is a great gift that I won’t be allowing an ignorant minority to deprive me of.
 

stepic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
7,857
Location
London
I can’t remember who but I still hear race and religious jokes. Not a big thing, if it’s funny audience laughs and move on.

This dictation about what we can and can’t find funny or joke about is what needs to get cancelled. Humour is what separates us from other animals and the ability to appreciate dark or offensive humour and detach it from reality is a great gift that I won’t be allowing an ignorant minority to deprive me of.
so you’re saying racist jokes are ok?
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
1,271
so you’re saying racist jokes are ok?
If it’s part of a diverse standup act then yes. I think most people have the intelligence to realise when a person is making stereotype jokes due 1) to his/her experience 2) area they grew up in and friends 3) Current news vs when someone is simply being a jerk and expressing what they think.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
25,119
If it’s part of a diverse standup act then yes. I think most people have the intelligence to realise when a person is making stereotype jokes due 1) to his/her experience 2) area they grew up in and friends 3) Current news vs when someone is simply being a jerk and expressing what they think.
What is it’s not diverse and just 3 specials beating us over the head about the same thing?
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
26,564
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/dave-chappelle-the-closer/620364/

Nice article from the Atlantic attempting to be the voice of reason.
I suspect the a lot of people in the transcommunity will be unsurprised at Helen Lewis' defence of Chappelle on his trans comments and sceptical as to the idea of her being "the voice of reason" given she has previously:

- Been repeatedly accused of transphobia.
- Written columns about attending meetings of Woman' Place UK (an organisation who have variously been described as a "hate group", "a clearly transphobic organisation", "the most well-known grassroots anti-trans feminist group".)
- Claimed that acceptance of transgender people’s right to self-identify means that women are unable to “challenge someone with a beard exposing their penis in a women’s changing room”.
- Strongly criticised proposed reforms to the Gender Recognition Act as “gender’s version of Brexit” and a “radical rewriting of our understanding of identity”, asserting that “a man can’t just say he has turned into a woman”.
- Described the transgender rights movement as "the imperial overreach of a handful of trans activists, in trying to rewrite widely accepted ideas about gender by stealth,”.
- Said trans activism “has done nothing to improve the lives of trans people.”
- Claimed the word "TERF" was a glorification of misogyny.
- In an interview with Jordan Peterson stated: “I don’t believe you can be a man born in a woman’s body or a woman born in a man’s body. What I believe is that there are some people who feel alienation towards their bodies”.
- Was removed as a voice actor from the Ubisoft game Watch Dogs: Legion for her remarks about gender identity.

I'm gonna say she has a dog in this fight already.