Neville - ‘’no style of play’’

Maluco said:
No, he didn’t say that, you can hear it on his latest rant. He has been so disappointing on so many issues. It’s not silly to find him biased and clearly letting his own personal interests affect his opinions on TV (Superleague/City, his opinions on United and ownership depending on who is in charge, his relationship with England players etc…)

The latest is that suddenly United have too much structure and Bruno is the best player on the pitch, whereas before it was no structure and Bruno was wasteful.

He is on so many platforms that even he can’t keep track of his own opinions.

At the very least, he and Carragher need to be removed from their own clubs games. It’s tedious and they are overexposed as is.
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You're getting annoyed over nothing, my friend. Neville is a pitchman nowadays, nothing more and nothing less. He's got very little to do with context or nuance, he's all about the wisecracks and the big headlines.

I recall seeing online the thing i mentioned a few years back. It was all over the internet because that was his intention. He and JC also did a ranking of the PL managers last winter, and he picked SAF as his number one. I said the whole thing's silly because he's the ultimate "manager's player". Gary himself has acknowledged that. No matter what he says in the spur of the moment, i doubt he believes that this particular peak belongs to any other than Ferguson.

Maybe he rubs people the wrong way because he's such a negative Nelly. Fair enough. I don't watch our games on Sky. But even on NBC, i can count on the fingers of one hand the times i've heard positive things about United over the last decade.
 
M Bison said:
Thought he was right yesterday, a dull game from start to finish.
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It was a dull game but we would have been naive to play any other way.

These pundits do my head in because they are the first to claim how poor our players are when we play so badly but then question why we don’t look like prime Barcelona when we actually do okay.

Things are looking positive for once in the sense that we look nowhere near as bad as we did a couple of months ago yet it seems we are expected to go from relegation candidates to world class overnight.
 
I don’t see what the major issue is tbh.

We’re clearly a lot more difficult to play and score against. We’re also now creating plenty of chances. We’re just lacking a goal scorer which we can’t fix until the summer. We’ve had 36 shots in the last 2 games and failed to score. It’s not as dull as being made out. A few of those chances go in and we wouldn’t be hearing sounds of it being dull and boring.
 
Woodzy said:
It was a dull game but we would have been naive to play any other way.

These pundits do my head in because they are the first to claim how poor our players are when we play so badly but then question why we don’t look like prime Barcelona when we actually do okay.

Things are looking positive for once in the sense that we look nowhere near as bad as we did a couple of months ago yet it seems we are expected to go from relegation candidates to world class overnight.
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I know what you’re saying and not losing yesterday was important, but at the same time, it was disappointing to see such a lack of intent from both sides. Neither showed any desire and the game was so lacking in energy and fight.

I agree things are starting to look better though which is a relief, I thought against Forest we were starting to look like a team and a bit more cohesive, and yesterday was a bit more in that direction.
 
BorisManUtd said:
This City team won everything over last few years and actually needed a win yesterday as they're in the top 4/5 race and they were hugging with United players, does that mean they're mammy boys as well? Because they've certainly proven over the years that they're winners.

Maybe I'd get your point if we lost but it was a 0-0 draw. Decent result and performance for this United side at this stage of Amorim's reign.

It's 2025 not 2005 and it's not Wenger vs Ferguson. Pep and Klopp had few amazing title races and still showed respect to each other on most of the occassions.
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They’ll all be French kissing next, no excuse.
 
Sometimes Gary just talks so Gary stands out. It’s can have very little to do with reality.

Hes got the headlines he wants. I personally won’t give this fire anymore oxygen.
 
Chief123 said:
I don’t see what the major issue is tbh.

We’re clearly a lot more difficult to play and score against. We’re also now creating plenty of chances. We’re just lacking a goal scorer which we can’t fix until the summer. We’ve had 36 shots in the last 2 games and failed to score. It’s not as dull as being made out. A few of those chances go in and we wouldn’t be hearing sounds of it being dull and boring.
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Yeah I agree with this, I think there is clear progress in setting the team up to win matches. It's just when you have a front 3 with about 8 league goals between them by April then it's pretty difficult.
 
I get people are fed up of the negativity but everything Neville said was true. I can never criticise someone telling the truth.

The games become a chess bored with our current tactics designed to have our fullbacks in 1v1 situations. It’s rubbish.. I’m sick of seeing Dalot as our furthers attacker advancing on goal.
 
Prince William is better pundit than him. And i am not even kidding now.
 
big_jeffstar said:
I sometimes feel like commentators think there’s only one team playing.. City won’t let you just do whatever you want.. they press high on purpose, they want you to pass it backwards, then they wait for the keeper to launch it upfield for a turnover.. Pep drills that stuff into them until they can do it in their sleep…
“be brave” is such a nothing comment.. what do you actually want them to do? There’s never any detail, just random sweeping statements… “everyone needs to be braver” .. but if the centre back went on a mad run, got tackled and then we conceded.. they’re the first people to rip them to pieces saying it was immature or whatever.. better off ignoring them
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I agree with most of what you’re saying but I think they have a point at times with regards to “bravery” on the ball. If they see it as I do, they’re probably referring to the players whose first instinct is to go backwards, when there’s options ahead of them. The first half against City was frustrating because we kept ignoring the diagonal when it was on all day. The second half you could see we’d been told to attempt it more.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
I get people are fed up of the negativity but everything Neville said was true. I can never criticise someone telling the truth.

The games become a chess bored with our current tactics designed to have our fullbacks in 1v1 situations. It’s rubbish.. I’m sick of seeing Dalot as our furthers attacker advancing on goal.
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How do you want us to play?
 
We’ve got about as much style of play as his Valencia team had. However we are and have improved in this aspect. We can see what Amorims trying to do at least. With more quality in the forward line we’ll be a threat next season
 
They were calling Amorim naive, for "sticking to his system", and now they dont want him to play pragmatic football.

Seems like an agenda to me
 
SuperiorXI said:
Prime United 2007/08 it seems. People need to realise we're nowhere near, Manager has to adapt or he loses his job.
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Getting Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez level of players or even somewhere near that level would help. Don't sort that forward line out, nothing much will change. We seem more organised defensively which great teams are built on. Just hope he gets the money other managers got and then wasted. If they hadn't we wouldn't be in this mess. The club needs a cultural change, footballers first, models and social media stars second.
 
I do think managers have disappeared up their own backsides a bit. Footballers know how to play football. They've been doing it all their lives. They don't need a puppet master on the sideline pulling all their strings. Just guide them but let their natural ability and instincts come in.

The current batch also seem to think they have access to information no managers before had. Which means they have to play a much larger role.

Amorim said for instance teams now know Garnacho likes to cut in on his right.

Ruben nobody needs an analysis department to work that out. Managers have been able to see stuff like that for decades. It's not that complicated.
 
If you listen to the latest podcast he is absolutely right having defenders and goalkeepers having the most passes in the league is dire and that's across the board, it's fecking boring if anything else having the least talented players have the ball the most
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Getting Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez level of players or even somewhere near that level would help. Don't sort that forward line out, nothing much will change. We seem more organised defensively which great teams are built on. Just hope he gets the money other managers got and then wasted. If they hadn't we wouldn't be in this mess. The club needs a cultural change, footballers first, models and social media stars second.
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That's the trick isn't it. Recruitment is the number one priority to yeild top-level football honours. Let's see how we get on in the summer.
 
Neville is just after the headlines and the clicks. Him and Keane go after them. Amorim is entirely consistent, he said this season would be difficult because it is setting us up for next season and so far he has been exactly right but that will not drive traffic to Neville's podcasts so he needs to keep hammering on at style of play.

Look at the fake argument that Carragher and he had over the last 2 Overlap episodes. Odd at the start of the Littler episode that they carried on the argument when on camera. Did they stop the discussion when the previous episode ended? It is all designed to provide entertainment so he can get a wedge from Heul and Linkedin
 
Gavinb33 said:
If you listen to the latest podcast he is absolutely right having defenders and goalkeepers having the most passes in the league is dire and that's across the board, it's fecking boring if anything else having the least talented players have the ball the most
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This was the Neville pundit from the pre-Valencia days. An excellent five minute segment, and his stuff about centre backs passing the most of the last 5 years in contrast to his last 5 years was an excellent point and a way of looking at the issue of fooball's "entertainment" value that I hadn't thought about.
 
Gavinb33 said:
If you listen to the latest podcast he is absolutely right having defenders and goalkeepers having the most passes in the league is dire and that's across the board, it's fecking boring if anything else having the least talented players have the ball the most
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Yeah, really good insight that bit and something they should do more of on the podcast actually.



From c. 40mins for anyone wanting to listen.
 
SilentWitness said:
Yeah, really good insight that bit and something they should do more of on the podcast actually.



From c. 40mins for anyone wanting to listen.
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I think he misses the point though, the fact that when he played the top 5 players on the ball were deep CM/DM and now versus CBs isn't necessarily an issue, or likely even that different in terms of where they were on the pitch. The issue comes from the evolution of pressing. He mentions it at the end very briefly but doesn't make the connection.

People keep mentioning Pep, but it's not solely his influence. No clubs try and emulate what Pep used to do because it's a pipedream, even Arsenal who have a good budget quickly moved away from Arteta's original plan because the initial spend needed is insane. Think of how he uses Rice for example. It's big teeth. Klopp showed how to build an unbelievable press on a budget, to have a workhorse midfield without necessarily a real creator think of the difference in profile of Henderson/Fabinho, by no means bad technically but much more physical, aggressive, fit compared to the names G Nev mentioned from his time (Cesc, Scholes, Alonso) the knock on effect is that it has become too high risk for teams to play out and move the ball forward quickly which is Gary says he wants to see. That's the cause of the GK/Defender waiting tactic to drag teams forward, that is the big issue from an entertainment perspective, the ball is in play but it's basically dead.

The only realistic solution I can think of is to shrink the GK box to increase the risk for the defensive team passing out/encourage more direct play. Think it might also help attacking teams in general and also take away at least some of the stupid hand ball penalties.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I think he misses the point though, the fact that when he played the top 5 players on the ball were deep CM/DM and now versus CBs isn't necessarily an issue, or likely even that different in terms of where they were on the pitch. The issue comes from the evolution of pressing. He mentions it at the end very briefly but doesn't make the connection.

People keep mentioning Pep, but it's not solely his influence. No clubs try and emulate what Pep used to do because it's a pipedream, even Arsenal who have a good budget quickly moved away from Arteta's original plan because the initial spend needed is insane. Think of how he uses Rice for example. It's big teeth. Klopp showed how to build an unbelievable press on a budget, to have a workhorse midfield without necessarily a real creator think of the difference in profile of Henderson/Fabinho, by no means bad technically but much more physical, aggressive, fit compared to the names G Nev mentioned from his time (Cesc, Scholes, Alonso) the knock on effect is that it has become too high risk for teams to play out and move the ball forward quickly which is Gary says he wants to see. That's the cause of the GK/Defender waiting tactic to drag teams forward, that is the big issue from an entertainment perspective, the ball is in play but it's basically dead.

The only realistic solution I can think of is to shrink the GK box to increase the risk for the defensive team passing out/encourage more direct play. Think it might also help attacking teams in general and also take away at least some of the stupid hand ball penalties.
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I agree with both really. Evolution of pressing and the attempt to emulate Pep but it comes back to the same point which is that there is an almost robotic structure to football which arguably puts the so called 'less exciting' players on the ball more than the exciting players, or at least that's how it appears or feels to the masses currently.
 
Glorio said:
Rio speaking the truth here:
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Agree this is where I am at.

For me, Amorim has slowly started to make United better, but there’s an obvious lack of quality in the final third which is difficult for the manager to do anything about.

Get the right profile of players in this summer (striker is essential) and I’ll be very confident about next season, which I haven’t been in about 5 or more years now
 
SilentWitness said:
I agree with both really. Evolution of pressing and the attempt to emulate Pep but it comes back to the same point which is that there is an almost robotic structure to football which arguably puts the so called 'less exciting' players on the ball more than the exciting players, or at least that's how it appears or feels to the masses currently.
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I think there simply are less exciting players in general as well.
Something needs to be done though, my worry given the US influence in the PL now is people start talking of shot clocks.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
Get our attackers in 1v1 situations. I mean what was complex about what I said?
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Yeah our tactics don't exist within a vacuum ie the other team has a say in that. If they play a low block then how do you get these 1 v 1s? I think we're doing fine with what we have. There's only Garnacho in attack with pace to stretch a defence and create these 1 v 1s. If it was as easy as you seem to naively think, wouldn't every coach just say 'yeah go out there lads and look for those 1 v 1s'? Unfortunately for you it apparently is a bit complex to understand the nuance behind these things and the issues we have.
 
pocco said:
Yeah our tactics don't exist within a vacuum ie the other team has a say in that. If they play a low block then how do you get these 1 v 1s? I think we're doing fine with what we have. There's only Garnacho in attack with pace to stretch a defence and create these 1 v 1s. If it was as easy as you seem to naively think, wouldn't every coach just say 'yeah go out there lads and look for those 1 v 1s'? Unfortunately for you it apparently is a bit complex to understand the nuance behind these things and the issues we have.
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Agree with this, its a bit silly to say.. wingers get one on one with your full backs when most teams now double up on wingers.

Managers usually do this, they overload one side of the pitch and look to switch the play... usually a player is one v one.

What fans dont understand is, regardless of the skill level of a player, going one v one is a risk, you will not get past the player all the time... if you keep trying and fail 50% of the time, it means there is a counter opportunity and the team is not set.
 
pocco said:
Yeah our tactics don't exist within a vacuum ie the other team has a say in that. If they play a low block then how do you get these 1 v 1s? I think we're doing fine with what we have. There's only Garnacho in attack with pace to stretch a defence and create these 1 v 1s. If it was as easy as you seem to naively think, wouldn't every coach just say 'yeah go out there lads and look for those 1 v 1s'? Unfortunately for you it apparently is a bit complex to understand the nuance behind these things and the issues we have.
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I think we definitely could play more direct, that seems to be Amorim's influence in reigning in the madness of ETH's play, which was better for chance creation but also put us under huge defensive strain. Personally, I think that's why Garnacho and Hojlund have struggled so much for goals this season, both of their styles suit more direct play, running off a defensive line or between FB/CB. Plus they're very young and still learning the game to a degree.

Re pace though, if we take the risk and push Dalot and Dorgu up there is a real threat in behind once again if you play Garnacho and Hojlund and then enough trickery/creativity in the middle with Bruno coming forwards and Zirkzee lurking in weird positions to do well against most teams in my opinion. It's hell for the WBs, I can see why Quenda reportedly wants to just be a winger, but in Dorgu/Dalot we have two guys who seem to accept the lactic acid burn without complaint.
 
romufc said:
Agree with this, its a bit silly to say.. wingers get one on one with your full backs when most teams now double up on wingers.

Managers usually do this, they overload one side of the pitch and look to switch the play... usually a player is one v one.

What fans dont understand is, regardless of the skill level of a player, going one v one is a risk, you will not get past the player all the time... if you keep trying and fail 50% of the time, it means there is a counter opportunity and the team is not set.
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For me, Ten Hag tried to create these situations last season by having the team so stretched and playing directly. But look at the outcome, teams sussed us out and picked us off at will, having 20+ shots per game. Fans complained that we had no control over games, so now we do have that control (to a better extent) they complain that we're not direct enough essentially. A don't think any coach can win with our fans until they win trophies, then no matter what football they play, it will probably be the best thing ever in their eyes. They just won't be happy to go through the process of getting there as they can't deal with the short term pain.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I think we definitely could play more direct, that seems to be Amorim's influence in reigning in the madness of ETH's play, which was better for chance creation but also put us under huge defensive strain. Personally, I think that's why Garnacho and Hojlund have struggled so much for goals this season, both of their styles suit more direct play, running off a defensive line or between FB/CB. Plus they're very young and still learning the game to a degree.

Re pace though, if we take the risk and push Dalot and Dorgu up there is a real threat in behind once again if you play Garnacho and Hojlund and then enough trickery/creativity in the middle with Bruno coming forwards and Zirkzee lurking in weird positions to do well against most teams in my opinion. It's hell for the WBs, I can see why Quenda reportedly wants to just be a winger, but in Dorgu/Dalot we have two guys who seem to accept the lactic acid burn without complaint.
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We could be more direct, and it's something his Sporting team did against against bigger teams like City. But I think he's trying to achieve other things first rather than going for the easy but unsustainable things, eg being better in possession, being more compact defensively, trying to implement his WBs to stretch teams horizontally and create openings in other areas. He could probably easily set us up in a low block and counter, that takes zero thought to implement really.

But other than this, I think the players are responsible for our issues at times too. They shirk playing tougher passes (apart from Bruno). Countless times each game, we will have our wingback in a lot of space and open for the diagonal ball, but our players seemingly bottle it. If they hit these passes then we'd maybe see more overloads/1v1s. But also, teams are aware of this and are coming back in numbers to defend against us. Basically it will take time and more quality to get this working well, but if and when we do, we will be a far better team for it. How many years now have relied chaos football to try to win games - both Ole and ETH were largely playing this way and hoping our pace and quality would win out in end to end games. And quite often it actually didn't. We all wanted a more measured approach and it definitely feels to me like we are starting to look like a well organised football team, for the first time in many years.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I think there simply are less exciting players in general as well.
Something needs to be done though, my worry given the US influence in the PL now is people start talking of shot clocks.
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It's largely not encouraged imo to be maverick these days, everything is about the system which is why football has gotten very boring to watch at times, I'd argue it's easy to keep the ball if you're not playing aggressively and quickly to get forward because they'll always be safe pass option a lot of the time, United have been massively guilty of this in Amorim's reign its getting better but the football is still dull as dishwasher
 
Gazza said:
Sky must be advising their pundits incessantly on what they can do to keep engagement high; this PL season is their absolutely nightmare in terms of lack of intrigue, and the best they can do is get their pundits to dance. Quite sad, really.
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I think that's the way things have gone with social media. CBS sports does loads of stuff like this. It's becoming the norm.
 
He’s basically become a shill, a glorified social media influencer for Sky Sports and his own personal interests.

It’s funny to listen to him know bemoan modern football when for the last decade he did nothing but praise Pep and City for their style of play and insisting we do the same. He did it to prop up the Premier League as "the best in the world" but now that City are no longer top dogs, he finds issue with their style of play.

As for United, we were saying for years about the ruin the Glazer's were causing and he didn't speak out against them until they got involved with the European Super League because it would effect the Premier League and Sky Sports. We're in worse position now, but now that the Super League is dead and buried, and we are facing challenges off the pitch, he's remain silent and did a puff piece on Ratcliffe.
 
manutddjw said:
He’s basically become a shill, a glorified social media influencer for Sky Sports and his own personal interests.

It’s funny to listen to him know bemoan modern football when for the last decade he did nothing but praise Pep and City for their style of play and insisting we do the same. He did it to prop up the Premier League as "the best in the world" but now that City are no longer top dogs, he finds issue with their style of play.

As for United, we were saying for years about the ruin the Glazer's were causing and he didn't speak out against them until they got involved with the European Super League because it would effect the Premier League and Sky Sports. We're in worse position now, but now that the Super League is dead and buried, and we are facing challenges off the pitch, he's remain silent and did a puff piece on Ratcliffe.
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The opposite of this is true, he’s largely always said Utd shouldn’t sacrifice their traditional speed, wingers, risk and counter attack to go down the possession route. It’s weird he’s always maintained this considering he’s also stated Utds best ever Anfield performance was under LVG.

And he’s still praising Pep, he says on the podcast he’s not knocking Pep, just all the crap imitations of him the game is flooded with.
 
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