6 groups of 6 would have made more sense.
New champions league format
- Thread starter Rolandofgilead
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Goes against the point of what they're trying to do.
So making the quarter finals means you're in the CL next year?
So United could make the quarter finals of 2025. But finish in the league 15th
However they make CL the next season over 4th place team?
So England could have three quarter finalists which means position 2,3 and 4 don't make it?
Is that right? This sounds like total nonsense which needs to be rethought. It seems this was planned and done to stop the super league but they went ahead with it anyway. So how is this much better anyway?
Or am I totally misunderstanding that part of qualification?
So United could make the quarter finals of 2025. But finish in the league 15th
However they make CL the next season over 4th place team?
So England could have three quarter finalists which means position 2,3 and 4 don't make it?
Is that right? This sounds like total nonsense which needs to be rethought. It seems this was planned and done to stop the super league but they went ahead with it anyway. So how is this much better anyway?
Or am I totally misunderstanding that part of qualification?
UEFA really do need to look at the excruciating 10 "league" games to get rid of 1 in 3 teams.
Why? I struggle to see any problems with the current system. Why does it need to be changed?
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Goooooddd
Yes that has been the plan for 4 months
Can we just get back to a Champions format please..
Champions play other champions in a knock out comp.
I hate this new bullshit.
Champions play other champions in a knock out comp.
I hate this new bullshit.
Nobody snuck anything past anyone. They came up with that plan, told everyone about the plan, then brought the plan in. They didn't need subterfuge or (as the ESL did) a coup to make it happen.
That would be a tiny step in the right direction.
I'm not quite sold on the idea that 'the current group stages are tedious so let's make the group stage much longer and make it much harder to fail to progress'. Also all these extra games... the football calendar is almost full already.
Should be:
1-2 play CL
2-4 play EL
Bring back the cup winners cup
Have a 3 team summer tournament for the super cup.
A proper Swiss system would be a nightmare for fans though. Imagine finding out on Wednesday that your club is playing in Moscow next week. It would be impossible to plan away trips for the vast majority of fans.
If you had 6 groups of 6 you'd still have a greater chance of 'different' fixtures and facing bigger sides. You'd still get your 10 game minimum and better yet no completely confusing 36 team group where not everyone plays each other and less 'dead rubbers'.
I could be wrong but based on the clubs who've welcomed this. The idea is that with the 8 groups of 4 there isn't enough games, enough 'different' games and revenue. For English football with it's larger calendar, to us this is obviously insane but to Dutch, Belgian type nations they want to face more big clubs, more times and this gives them the opportunity to do this.
This method guarantees every team 10 CL games a season, some even 12 . I think UEFA are doing it for revenue but the less reputable leagues have been wanting a bigger piece of the pie for years and this gives them it which I think is ultimately a decent enough compromise if you're going to keep fecking them over and reducing the number of their teams who enter the CL.
UEFA are in a tough spot, they've got one side wanting more inclusiveness and then another who think they have a right to be in the CL and if they don't get in they'll make a new league....
They've given the top leagues 4 automatic spots, they've given them winning the Europa League to get in and it still isnt enough.
Within ten years I reckon the Europa League will go and the CL will feature 48 teams. This is where it's all heading to.
Stop talking sense please. Just stop it.
That's true. Proper Swiss would be a challenge for football logistically.
As a quick thought experiment, in the current CL knockout stages there tends to be 2 or 3 weeks notice between rounds. So it might be doable if you can organise the schedule to play roughly every 2 weeks, and even perhaps arrange 2 fixtures at a time (1x home, 1x away), before reassessing the bracket and working out pairings. To be honest part of me would love to see how it would go out of pure curiosity. You could potentially run a massive 128 team tournament like this and the cream would rise to the top. In this way there would be plenty of exciting matches between the strongest teams while also allowing for plenty of representation for the champions of all the smaller leagues. The tension would also gradually build up naturally as the tournament goes on.
Then youre back to having CL a closed shop which was the argument against SL anyway
Paving the way for an ESL under UEFA rules, nothing else.
It's on its way whether we like it or not
It's on its way whether we like it or not
Keep in mind that in the current CL group stage, each team plays six games. In the new format, each team would play 10 games and the sides finishing between 9th and 24th would play another two in the playoff round. That's literally twice as many games. It will be incredibly hard to fit it into the calendar, and almost impossible to guarantee two-week breaks between games. Unless UEFA are willing to keep it going throughout December and January as well, which, again is a potential logistical problem for a lot of the continent.
I assume it will be some sort of proprietary system that will use Swiss to some extent. As you say the logistics of doing pure Swiss wouldn't work because matches for the next game week can only be agreed after all the previous ones being completed. They could develop a system to schedule matches in batches, probably with seeding based on coefficients early on. Maybe matches 1-4 drawn first, once they are all played, matches 5-8 drawn, and then matches 9-10 drawn. Some Scrabble tournaments use similar systems (see page 44). As per Wikipedia you can search for "modified Swiss", "Portland Swiss", "Fontes Swiss" or "speed pairing".
It's possible that they just draw it all up front by ranking teams based on coefficients and deriving a schedule based on that. That might be underwhelming.
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Yep there'd certainly be a lot of stuff they'd have to figure out. Reducing from 10 to 8 games would probably be the first step if I was put in charge of making it work. Anyway it's fun to think about but it isn't going to happen any time soon.
Yeah something like that could be the next step if they adopt it and keep developing on it.
How is it closed shop? That would require the same 2 teams to finish top the PL every year.
This would give us 3 great tournaments to watch. The EL would be actually worth something.
It would be though. City plus 1 other of the top 6. Its shutting the rest out. West Ham have the best chance outside of the Leicester miracle and they're currently 5th.
Its only fractionally better than SL in a moral sense.
How will they draw which 10 teams a club will play?
For example United play 10 of the other 35 teams, how they determine opponents for other clubs. All this doesn’t make any sense. If there were 4 groups of 9 Clubs each, they could have had 8 matches with each other but as I understood there are no groups either.
It is all very confusing
For example United play 10 of the other 35 teams, how they determine opponents for other clubs. All this doesn’t make any sense. If there were 4 groups of 9 Clubs each, they could have had 8 matches with each other but as I understood there are no groups either.
It is all very confusing
They should rewrite the whole thing, excised of all the concessions made to stave off the super league threat. The toxic 12 have been exposed as powerless now.
Those smaller sides would get battered and it would be a constant battering in the swiss model if im understanding it correctly?
I think they should increase the places that you qualify to six in the Uk, Spain, Germany and Italy. I think this whole debacle with the european super league was because only four teams in those countries can qualify, especially in the UK.
Maybe have the 5th and 6th placed teams go through the qualifying rounds. I think they really have to do something, or else the super league will linger.
Maybe have the 5th and 6th placed teams go through the qualifying rounds. I think they really have to do something, or else the super league will linger.
Well It is the Champions League...if City always finish top 2 then fair play to them.
Besides there's the EL and winning the FA cup.
West Ham would always have a chance to qualify for CL based on their own results. In SL they'll still have to pass the judgment of The Shitty Fifteen to be deemed worthy of being one of the five new clubs allowed. Miles better I'd say.
So.. we got the ESL format after all - Only with a watered out expanded version with 36 teams. Disgraceful and the greed we saw in expanding the World Cup continues.Who's gonna stop this money-driven circus? Governments act, please
Make Cups Great Again. CWC would seriously restore some greatness to Cups everywhere in the Europe. It would be amazing.
Love that format. Add seedless random draws with no restrictions.....ummmmm.
Lots of people saying they don't like this 2 free passes for big clubs. However, I like the idea. Yeah it is probably motivated by generating more income, but it means that we get more big clubs in the competition (and the size of the club is dependant on the coefficient so it is dynamic). This is exactly the same thing which happens in Tennis, if a player has been injured for a long time they may get an invitational or wild card. I don't really see why there is so much hate with this.
This - 100%.
It would be a cryin' shame if anything else happened.
Part and parcel of the reaction to this "super league" shite is that people - regular football fans - clearly do not want a format which is designed to minimize risk for a favoured few.
But they were not injured, they were shit.
If the NIFL champions got into the group stages, I think they'd take an 18-0 battering x 6 for the payday, it'd be a decades worth of revenue for some mildy bruised pride, hell if they kept it under double figures or scored a goal they'd be talked about as legends for the rest of time.
Should throw it back to champions only, that'd give the rest a huge kick in the face.
I personally think the top six in England, Spain, Italy and Germany should be able to qualify. Especially England where you have a big six (big seven if you include everton). Maybe have the 5th and 6th placed teams go through qualifying rounds. The whole debacle of the last few days was hugely influenced by the Big 6 wanting to be in the champions league every year.
Edit: This will only replicate itself in Spain, Germany and Italy in twenty years time, where you will have a big six in each league.