Less is more.
New format proposed for 2024-27 Champions League
- Thread starter Uniquim
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I don't think it's meant to be a big new thing to rival the european championship, its just a way to replace the bulk of euro vs euro friendlies with something more meaningfully structured.
Looks awful. 16 and 32 are the ideal numbers for a tournament. Everything works out cleanly and equally. Group stage is two in, two out to a last 16 or last 8.
I have no idea of the obsession to ruin tournaments with these oddly numbered tournaments - 24 for the Euros, 36 for the CL and 48 for the World Cup. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Portugal should never have got out of their Euro group finishing 3rd with 3 draws in Euro 2016. Who wants to see a team go through from a group without winning a game? It's nearly impossible to do that in a 16 or 32 team format.
I have no idea of the obsession to ruin tournaments with these oddly numbered tournaments - 24 for the Euros, 36 for the CL and 48 for the World Cup. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Portugal should never have got out of their Euro group finishing 3rd with 3 draws in Euro 2016. Who wants to see a team go through from a group without winning a game? It's nearly impossible to do that in a 16 or 32 team format.
Quality over quantity for me.
Champions league would be better modelled to reduce predictability and increase competitiveness. As it stands, you can count on 1 finger which clubs are likely to make it to the final. You could argue FFP was supposed to level the playing field a little bit, but that has failed rather spectacularly.
Champions league would be better modelled to reduce predictability and increase competitiveness. As it stands, you can count on 1 finger which clubs are likely to make it to the final. You could argue FFP was supposed to level the playing field a little bit, but that has failed rather spectacularly.
Yeah, thought it was really boring, a complete slog. 2 group stages was just too much.
Remember the very early editions of it? The group stage came towards the end and was for the last 8 teams remaining. Win the group to make the final, everyone else gets knocked out. Think they binned it off because they didn't want dead-rubbers so late in the tournament. Got 1 or 2 points after 3 games and you're highly unlikely to win the group, looks bad teams giving up at the late stage of the tournament. Might have worked better in some other format, maybe if 2 teams qualified for semis, or if there were 3 teams in the groups instead of 4.
Edit: Just been looking, that format (last 8 in 2 groups of 4, winners through to the final) only happened once. The next year they still had the group stage for the last 8 but made it so that the top 2 went through to the semis. From 94/95 onwards the group stages came in the early rounds.
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I don´t know. If you want more teams wha not to just add more qualifying rounds. CL the main tournament should absolutely be only for the best.
I play in competitive video game tournaments where the Swiss model is used. It is definitely the best tournament format in most cases to determine the best and most deserving winner. I don't see why it can't work in football as well.
However, as many have said, fitting an extra 4-5 games on the calendar is going to be tricky. It should probably just be the top 8 that advance rather than top 16 if they're to make it manageable. Otherwise, we will at least have to lose the League Cup and maybe even scrap or shorten any winter breaks.
However, as many have said, fitting an extra 4-5 games on the calendar is going to be tricky. It should probably just be the top 8 that advance rather than top 16 if they're to make it manageable. Otherwise, we will at least have to lose the League Cup and maybe even scrap or shorten any winter breaks.
As others said, this is basically the revival of the second group stage. And there are very good reasons why that was scrapped after only four seasons.
Just have one fecking tournament for the entire continent, two-leg knockouts each round. No more Europa, just a single European Cup.
Wouldn't mind this to be fair. Limit to 3 clubs max from each country.
What is it with people constantly fecking around with football? Leave the damn game as it is. Between VAR, chopping and changing rules and now fecking about with the CL, seems they won’t rest until they ruin the game completely.
Swiss, can they do anything right?
Scrap this and just do 2 division European league.
Division 1 - 14 teams
Division 2 - 14 teams - bottom 3 gets relegated. Top 2 gets promoted, with another in a playoff.
Europa League - Winners and runner-up goes straight to division 2, whilst 4th place fight it out with 3rd place for EL place.
Domestic cups - Teams participating in EL should field the B team only/or void their participation/ or first team players for quarter final stage and above only.
Then we can have a competition at the highest caliber.
Now top clubs play at least 60+-70+ matches per season, with this it's around the same amount.
Division 1 - 14 teams
Division 2 - 14 teams - bottom 3 gets relegated. Top 2 gets promoted, with another in a playoff.
Europa League - Winners and runner-up goes straight to division 2, whilst 4th place fight it out with 3rd place for EL place.
Domestic cups - Teams participating in EL should field the B team only/or void their participation/ or first team players for quarter final stage and above only.
Then we can have a competition at the highest caliber.
Now top clubs play at least 60+-70+ matches per season, with this it's around the same amount.
I’ve always disliked it when two teams from the same country meet in the CL
defeats the purpose
defeats the purpose
If domestic competitions have a say, promotions and relegations have no sense in European competitions.
I really hate the "half league" or the "final playoff in a league" formats.
In this case you are ranking teams in a single table that played very different opponents. Makes no sense.
Imagine you get 2 teams on the limbo, one will qualify the other won't, both need to win the last game, they are equal in goals, and both are seeded.
One will play a good team that rarely gets into the CL because the league is super competitive (something like Everton or Athletic) and win 2-0, the other team will play a small team that qualified magically and will trash them 5-0.
Basically one team will be eliminated with the same set of results in this "half-group" stage simply because it is playing a different opponent. Note please that both team had the same exact results except this last game.
So the draw is basically is hitting your luck twice: you will play teams better or worse from other tiers at random but ALSO you need to look out to what other rivals are getting in the draw.
After getting the same limbo results you can do nothing but watch what stuff outside your control is doing.
This is also why i don't like "some best second places" and stuff like this because you're comparing different opponents.
In this case you are ranking teams in a single table that played very different opponents. Makes no sense.
Imagine you get 2 teams on the limbo, one will qualify the other won't, both need to win the last game, they are equal in goals, and both are seeded.
One will play a good team that rarely gets into the CL because the league is super competitive (something like Everton or Athletic) and win 2-0, the other team will play a small team that qualified magically and will trash them 5-0.
Basically one team will be eliminated with the same set of results in this "half-group" stage simply because it is playing a different opponent. Note please that both team had the same exact results except this last game.
So the draw is basically is hitting your luck twice: you will play teams better or worse from other tiers at random but ALSO you need to look out to what other rivals are getting in the draw.
After getting the same limbo results you can do nothing but watch what stuff outside your control is doing.
This is also why i don't like "some best second places" and stuff like this because you're comparing different opponents.
Firstly, it was shit.
The beginnings of a good format. I've always thought this is how the Champions League will end up. However...
The top tier not playing each other is shite though and the opposite of what should happen. You look at the NFL - the top teams actually have a harder regular season than the weaker teams. Its ridiculous to prevent the top tier from playing each other. This is a perfect time to force the top teams to play each other in the "regular season/group phase." It would be far better to have 5 groups of 8 than 6 groups of 6.
See comparison
UEFA are going to be trying to sell 180 "regular season/group games" matches without actually having any interesting ones!
180 games to sell, without any of these (assuming this seasons rankings):
Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid
Barcelona vs Man City
Liverpool vs PSG
Man Utd vs Atletico
PSG vs Real Madrid
Bayern vs Liverpool
Man Utd vs Barcelona
Man City vs Atletico
We didnt see these matches in the current group system either, but then that was only 96 matches UEFA had to sell. Not 180.
If UEFA want to keep the 36 team system, they could do it so that Tier 1 teams don't not play against Tier 6 teams, and tier 2 don't play against Tier 5, and so on.
Similar to the NFL, that would give the best teams the hardest route.
The top tier not playing each other is shite though and the opposite of what should happen. You look at the NFL - the top teams actually have a harder regular season than the weaker teams. Its ridiculous to prevent the top tier from playing each other. This is a perfect time to force the top teams to play each other in the "regular season/group phase." It would be far better to have 5 groups of 8 than 6 groups of 6.
See comparison
UEFA are going to be trying to sell 180 "regular season/group games" matches without actually having any interesting ones!
180 games to sell, without any of these (assuming this seasons rankings):
Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid
Barcelona vs Man City
Liverpool vs PSG
Man Utd vs Atletico
PSG vs Real Madrid
Bayern vs Liverpool
Man Utd vs Barcelona
Man City vs Atletico
We didnt see these matches in the current group system either, but then that was only 96 matches UEFA had to sell. Not 180.
If UEFA want to keep the 36 team system, they could do it so that Tier 1 teams don't not play against Tier 6 teams, and tier 2 don't play against Tier 5, and so on.
Similar to the NFL, that would give the best teams the hardest route.
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More games, more meaningless games. At this rate teams will “use their squad” in the CL like they do in the FA Cup.
The problem with group stages of any description is they are *so boring:
You keep the best teams apart. You aren't directly competing against the best teams so losing the odd game doesnt matter.
If Liverpool lose to Brighton in the League, it's devastating as it gives the other big teams a chance to move past them.
If Liverpool lose to Atalanta in the Group Stage, it doesn't usually matter. Sometimes it does matter, but most of the time it doesn't make a difference come February
You keep the best teams apart. You aren't directly competing against the best teams so losing the odd game doesnt matter.
If Liverpool lose to Brighton in the League, it's devastating as it gives the other big teams a chance to move past them.
If Liverpool lose to Atalanta in the Group Stage, it doesn't usually matter. Sometimes it does matter, but most of the time it doesn't make a difference come February
Load of shit, someone on here mentioned a straight knock out, think that could be good, over 1 leg anything can happen, hmm I'd have no seedings at all, only rule is you can't be drawn against someone from your home country in the first round,,
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Interesting discussion. The draw would be like watching a spaghetti chart. I assume there are no protections vs having intraleague rivals meet in the group stage, but maybe in the next stages?
It looks to me a way to have more games so milk more money.
Best format for me was the final eight from last year. It looks like a World cup and I like it !
Knock out are the best in Europe and if you want a league just watch the league. I like the league but Europe should be different otherwise boring...
Would like what we had last year. One round knockouts played from the last 16 and in a small space of time and the same country at the end of the season to keep the excitement !
I know many will say you can't watch your team on your own stadium but it can be counter balanced if every big League can organise it every 6 year or so on home soil and smallers one from time to time. It will feel like a world cup when you organise it.
The home and away knockout format we have now are kind of boring, too much chess about it in games I think...teams can be scared to conced at home and too much round are won the first game which makes it boring.
Nothing feel more exciting then a knockout where everything is played in one game. That has some kind of magic.
Best format for me was the final eight from last year. It looks like a World cup and I like it !
Knock out are the best in Europe and if you want a league just watch the league. I like the league but Europe should be different otherwise boring...
Would like what we had last year. One round knockouts played from the last 16 and in a small space of time and the same country at the end of the season to keep the excitement !
I know many will say you can't watch your team on your own stadium but it can be counter balanced if every big League can organise it every 6 year or so on home soil and smallers one from time to time. It will feel like a world cup when you organise it.
The home and away knockout format we have now are kind of boring, too much chess about it in games I think...teams can be scared to conced at home and too much round are won the first game which makes it boring.
Nothing feel more exciting then a knockout where everything is played in one game. That has some kind of magic.
The only issue is they’d end up hosting the finals in random locations for cash like Saudi or New York.
If there was a way we could guarantee having it England every 5/6 years I’m for it. Otherwise no thanks. Wouldn’t want to sacrifice having a big European Old Trafford night.
I don't understand the people thinking this would be better with the cut-off at 16th. It would defeat the most redeeming quality of this proposal, which would be that almost every game counts.
To make an analogy with a CL group stage... This means the 1st place skips a round of knockout as a prize, which is a huge incentive to finish first instead of just a seeding advantage, which guarantees nothing. And 3rd place would go through.
The incentive to finish top 8 is huge. The incentive to avoid bottom would also be huge.
Except since you are competing with every team in every group, the chance of dead rubber games in the final rounds is rather slim.
I quite like this on paper but it seems a bit convoluted compared to the usually straightforward nature of football competitions though.
To make an analogy with a CL group stage... This means the 1st place skips a round of knockout as a prize, which is a huge incentive to finish first instead of just a seeding advantage, which guarantees nothing. And 3rd place would go through.
The incentive to finish top 8 is huge. The incentive to avoid bottom would also be huge.
Except since you are competing with every team in every group, the chance of dead rubber games in the final rounds is rather slim.
I quite like this on paper but it seems a bit convoluted compared to the usually straightforward nature of football competitions though.
I'd rather they did more to balance out the quality and finances of the Europa League compared to the Champions League. The split should be like 60% - 40%, not the something like 80% CL like it is now.
It would be horrific to play Europe in Saudi or New York, which will put away all the meaning of Europe.
I think every big league as : England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France should organise it and letting in some as Portugal, Netherlands, an agragation of scandinavian coutries or so have it from time to time.
But that is the problem here, people will not be able to watch it in there stadium.
Or lets say, you can do it as now, all across Europe with the home team being drawed. But clubs will not see that as fair and home advantage will be huge.
It is kind of fantasy, but what we had was really good last year from football perspective I think...too bad there was no people in stadiums. But there was a feeling of world cup in Portugal as you could see supporters from all around Europe drinking in bars and streets and cheering there team.
It's a boring competition full of boring teams, who cares. This sounds even more boring though, so good work.
Oooo, but it's Europe, oooooo. It's like that shite nightclub your mates always dragged you to "because it's Saturday night". Aye, but it's shite.
Oooo, but it's Europe, oooooo. It's like that shite nightclub your mates always dragged you to "because it's Saturday night". Aye, but it's shite.
The format with the most money will become prevalent.
They should be made to watch full 90-Minutes of the most boring matches with the most boring managers. ENDLESSLY.
An even longer group stage.
The rich are getting richer. Football has lost it's soul. While I love united, teams from small countries have no chance of winning this competition give the financial power that big western clubs have. Heck even Russian teams have no chance.
Kyiev, Valencia getting into the semis was fun.
Kyiev, Valencia getting into the semis was fun.
Platini had the best suggestion for ages which was the replacement of the Champions League and Europa League with a single 128 team double legged knockout tournament. Leagues in European competition are boring
Current format is just fine if they ditch seeding and various restrictions.
Mix them all up.
Everything would be way more entertaining and exciting, even fecking draws.
Mix them all up.
Everything would be way more entertaining and exciting, even fecking draws.