Newsflash!! Ruben Amorim sacked

In form and healthy Martinez, yup.

De Ligt, no doubt.

Maz, absolutely.

Cas.. when he bought him yeah, especially alongside another good midfielder. Now it’s getting much harder.

Yoro.. eventually.

Højlund, was fecked the second Amorim arrived for me, as Sesko was also.

Either way, as I say, it’s a strange position I find us in because I think we’re in a much better position with regards to our playing squad then we were when Ole left.
ETH’s time gave us some good defensive signings which we desperately needed, Amorim’s saw us get some good attackers.

What we need now is a midfielder or two (starting with the one that should’ve been coming in alonside Cas 2 years ago, but now even his replacement) and a manager who isn’t stark raving bonkers.
I agree. In fact, in the summer, I had said that this may be the best squad on paper that we've had since 2013. I genuinely like all of our defenders as individuals and the attack with Amad, Mbuemo, Cunha, Mount, Bruno and even Sesko look quality on paper. I think Mainoo is decent, and even this version of Casemiro is better than any DM's we've had outside of Matic in 17/18. I think our issue is the physicality of the midfield, as the league has gotten more intense over the last decade, which, in addition to Amorim's set up, has made it hard for us to play well for long periods as a team.

This is why it amazes me when fans come along blaming INEOS for having the squad in such a bad state. I don't think that's true. I don't think Smalling, Bailly or Rojo sniff this team. I don't think the Darmian we had gets into this team nor Lingard. Yet we have some fans convinced that this team, with the players listed above, is actually a mid table team. The cult of the manager needs to go, its strong and irrational.
 
Yes, it's quite alarming that people don't understand the nuances of this. It's not that de Ligt and Maguire can't play in a 3 CB system or that Dalot or Dorgu can't play as wing backs, they absolutely 'can' as talented professional footballers; the issue is that under Amorim's coaching and team, they can't play it to a good enough standard and be competitive to opposition players, who are better in their respective positions (usually in a back 4). Now by 'can', I am not saying they can perform to the required standard that we need but it's not as simple as saying 'why can't they play in a different formation, when they are occupying the same areas and it's 11 vs 11 anyways?'.

I've already read some are saying the players' heat maps were similar when we've played in a back 4 or when it was 3 CBs and therefore there's no discernible difference to what the formation 'should' be. However, at this level, it's all about small percentages and details, platforming players' best attributes and reducing weaknesses. When people say 'Amad shouldn't play as a wing back', it's not 'he should never play there in that position because it's bad period', it's 'he shouldn't play there because we don't control midfield, have a deep defensive line and therefore, although he may operate in the same areas, his first contact with the ball is usually in (disadvantaged) situations where he has to be more involved in build up and defensive work'. The same can be said of all other players in this team and the issue with whatever bastard iteration of 3-4-3 Amorim wanted to play.

Martinez doesn't suddenly become a 'bad' player in isolation in a back 3 just because he now has to cover a wider 10-20 yards area of the pitch in the channels. No he's becomes a bad fit there because now he has to deal with wide players in the PL that have plied their entire professional life being speedy, dynamic demons.

Bruno doing a serviceable job at CM because he has lots of involvements on the ball, passing stats etc doesn't make him a 'bad' player now that he starts 10-20 yards deeper. No he's becomes a bad fit because now he has to seek the ball first from his defenders before he can affect the game and has to deal with CM players in the PL that plied their entire professional life being box-to-box demons, putting out fires and maintaining rhythm i.e the antithesis of Bruno's instinct.

Fletcher playing a back 4 isn't automatically going to elevate the players to a higher standard but it puts them 'back' in places that doesn't expose their weaknesses even more as it was under Amorim.
This is a really sensible post. It kind of odd that it needed to be said, but it was very succinctly put. The only thing I'd add, is how much the fundamentals of football affect systems and formations.

Take running, for example. United were able to play Scholes in a 2 man midfield because of Keane. Kante's stamina in the engine room won the title at Chelsea and Leicester. Rice's lung capacity is the glue holding together a midfield trio of himself, Zubimendi and Odegaard.

Or passing. Pep's teams have historically been defensively secure (fortunately, not so much this season). There are many reasons for this; excellent recruitment, intelligent pressing, tactical fouling. But the primary reason teams usually struggle to score against them is that they rarely have the ball.

While City and Arsenal tend to line up in a some variation of 4-3-3, both teams spend large portions of their games in a 3-2-4-1 shape

CB CB CB
CM CM
RW AM AM LW
CF

One of the defenders steps into midfield (either an inverting FB or ball playing CB) and one the CM focuses on dribbling / box crashing. In success, Pep and Arteta's 4-3-3 and Amorim's 3-4-3 operate quite similarly. So I actually agree with Amorim when he reiterates the point that the media (and fans) fixate on formations too much.

However... Amorim's 3-4-3 was rarely successful. So instead of building up in 3-2-4-1, it often devolved into a a 3-4-2-1...

CB CB CB
RWB CM CM LWB
AM AM
CF

or even a 5-2-2-1...

RB CB CB CB LB
CM CM
AM AM
CF

Like against Wolves. At home. Or against a 10-man Everton. Which should have been a sackable offence on it's own.

TLDR - If you excel at passing and moving as a team, your wide players are wingers. If you're competent at it, they are wingbacks. If you're incompetent, they're fullbacks.
 
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There is a lot of conflicting information to be fair. It does seem very coincidental the noise coming out now that Wilcox never liked Amorim all along.

For me it's the opposite, the noise is now that he supported the hire. The noise that he was skeptical was around Ashworth departure. The current reporters don't really talk about the hire but about how things have evolved and how a number of executives have been questioning Amorim since the end of last season.
 
Why is this thread still going?! I think for the better of the club and the fans is to quickly totally forget that this con man was a coach here..
 
Anyways, I've said what I've wanted to say, so I'm glad I've got that off my chest.

We are all entitled to a opinion, I personally believe sacking the manager now was a scandalous decision and just makes Ratcliffe and co look inept, especially after his recent comments in that interview.

Time will tell I suppose, although I would be interested in the Amorim out brigade's minimum expectations for the remainder of the season ?
I'm not that fussed on a set league position if I'm honest.

My minimum expectations would be to see the team win more games against relatively poor teams instead of drawing them all.

Not struggling so much at Old Trafford.

That we play as many players as we can in positions that they are comfortable in.

That we continue trying to attack with a proper intensity once we have a lead, actually trying to put games to bed instead of becoming extremely passive, effectively inviting pressure and goals from the opposition.

The same level of application during two halfs of the same match, not just starting fast then becoming completely flat, not starting slow and only bothering to play because we have to chase a game, essentially some consistency in application.

If we can do these things, I feel the league position would take care of itself and we'd have a good chance of being in Europe.
 
He's in Portugal:


Translation: Ruben Amorim has returned to Portugal. The Portuguese coach landed this afternoon at the Humberto Delgado Airport, in Lisbon, five days after being sacked by Manchester United.

Journo: Good evening gaffer, was Manchester [United] a disappointment? When are you returning to work? Do you have any suitors? What about [in] Portugal? Are you returning to Portugal [to work] any time soon?

I hate seeing reporters do things like this. I get it's their job and it happens in most places but never like to see it.
 
Oh I thought you were saying later signings had nothing to do with Ten Hag. My bad.

Well there’s an argument to be made that later signings had less to do with Ten Hag, given the fact that INEOS took over footballing operations in Feb 2024 and looked to install a recruitment structure that was less driven by the manager, but no. My point was that our team under Ten Hag, especially the midfield, did not have the requisite pace or physicality to compete in the PL. An issue we now seem more inclined to address.
 
Or passing. Pep's teams have historically been defensively secure (fortunately, not so much this season). There are many reasons for this; excellent recruitment, intelligent pressing, tactical fouling. But the primary reason teams usually struggle to score against them is that they rarely have the ball.

While City and Arsenal tend to line up in a some variation of 4-3-3, both teams spend large portions of their games in a 3-2-4-1 shape

One of the defenders steps into midfield (either an inverting FB or ball playing CB) and one the CM focuses on dribbling / box crashing. In success, Pep and Arteta's 4-3-3 and Amorim's 3-4-3 operate quite similarly. So I actually agree with Amorim when he reiterates the point that the media (and fans) fixate on formations too much.

TLDR - If you excel at passing and moving as a team, your wide players are wingers. If you're competent at it, they are wingbacks. If you're incompetent, they're fullbacks.

I get why the media and fans are 'fixated' on the formations because it's easy to point out the obvious tactical shape difference and perhaps, maybe I'm giving too much benefit of the doubt here, they are talking about it in the way I mentioned without needing to go on a pedantic long explanation. It's not so much '3-4-3 is bad mmkay' but more 'whatever Amorim is doing in this 3-4-3 is bad'. I agree with your final summary line. The truth is that if Amorim had us playing good effective football, there wouldn't be as much noise regarding his formation but he wasn't just 'not good', he was absolute terrible.
 
feck that ego maniac one trick pony fake haired bastard.
 
Anyone posting Tryna make out weve made a mistake with Amorim needs their heads checking. Do not forget this guy failed to beat West Ham, wolves, Leeds, Bournemouth and ten man Everton in his last month here.
A heads up but we’re gonna lose a shit loads of games between now and the end of the season and probably finish in the bottom half.

But make no mistake about it his terrible coaching, management and dropping of standards are what you’re seeing the continuation of. His reign was blighted by an acceptability of this club of not winning games of football and losing games with no consequence. Players aren’t going to snap out of that overnight, let alone with part time managers coming in.

We gave up on this season in the summer when we kept him on. Then further gave it up when we sacked him and chose to go for an interim.
 
Those who think they're being witty by implying we were better off with Amorim, because we've not magically transformed into an amazing team overnight, are irritating as feck
 
Those who think they're being witty by implying we were better off with Amorim, because we've not magically transformed into an amazing team overnight, are irritating as feck
Genuinely insufferable.
 
Those who think they're being witty by implying we were better off with Amorim, because we've not magically transformed into an amazing team overnight, are irritating as feck
I think there's a fair bit between an amazing team over night and simply being a better team under amorim.
 
Those who think they're being witty by implying we were better off with Amorim, because we've not magically transformed into an amazing team overnight, are irritating as feck

The same people who were saying needs a full pre season and £300m before judging a manager
 
:lol: Desperate how you've all got into this thread quick smart to try and quell the inevitable.
 
Those who think they're being witty by implying we were better off with Amorim, because we've not magically transformed into an amazing team overnight, are irritating as feck
Well it’s the other side of the coin to all the people who clamoured for 4 at the back after we were largely poor against Newcastle but ground out 3 points but then ignored the fact we played really well against Arsenal, Fulham, Villa etc but didn’t get points
 
Back to being shite again. Jolly good. Anyone else remember beating these 4-2 in October?
 
The formation narrative was so easy to play our fanbase with. Wouldn't have worked at any other club.
 
Those who think they're being witty by implying we were better off with Amorim, because we've not magically transformed into an amazing team overnight, are irritating as feck
The problem is that this club is run by such morons that they picked the worst timing to make a decision that should've been made 6 months ago.

They should've clearly given him till after AFCON and then kicked him out. Now, they're destroying the morale of the squad and possibly a couple more interims.
 
The formation narrative was so easy to play our fanbase with. Wouldn't have worked at any other club.
No it wouldn’t have.

In the history of the PL, how may teams have won with this formation?

The real issue however was the utter rigidity, it meant every team knew how to play against us.
 
Please come back, all is forgiven
No it's not.

This coward of a manager put us in this situation. Him and ten Hag have set us back years.

We're a genuine midtable club now thanks to Amorim.


He'll be remembered alongside De Boer in the Premier League history books.
 
No it's not.

This coward of a manager put us in this situation. Him and ten Hag have set us back years.

We're a genuine midtable club now thanks to Amorim.


He'll be remembered alongside De Boer in the Premier League history books.

We wouldnt be losing 2-0 today with Amorim and his back 3/5.
 
Those who think they're being witty by implying we were better off with Amorim, because we've not magically transformed into an amazing team overnight, are irritating as feck

Why? No different to all those wanking themselves silly cos we had 30 shots away to Burnley and drew

He was sacked cos he fell out with the board, not results (though could have been fair earlier in season) or creating a horrible dressing room where players hated him etc. like Mourinho/ETH

Wilcox sacked him cos of an argument about systems it seems, and back 4 was the answer to it apparently

All we've now done is just start the cycle again but only benefit is that we've seen those above are incompetent
 
We wouldnt be losing 2-0 today with Amorim and his back 3/5.
How do you know? We lost to Grimsby. We lost to 10 men Everton. We lost loads of games.

Any exercise in trying to prove we'd be better off keeping him is futile, because his abysmal record speaks for itself
 
He is a shit manager and deserved to go but funny that I think he won't lose to Brighton. We beat Brighton 4-2 recently under him and in his final month, we actually looked harder to beat. Not convincing but far more resilient. Lots of draws, fewer collapses, and we kept finding ways to come back after going behind. There was a slight upward in form but the ceiling was already so low.