What do we reckon then?
Keir Starmer currently the bookie’s favourite, I’m inclined to agree.
Keir Starmer currently the bookie’s favourite, I’m inclined to agree.
Next Labour leader - Starmer and Rayner win
- Thread starter Kaos
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Bit late for that now, ah well
Give it to Jess Phillips.
(This won't happen, but her and Starmer are a couple of the only politicians I can stand.
(This won't happen, but her and Starmer are a couple of the only politicians I can stand.
Kier Starmer. Has enough credibility to carry both sides of the party.
Momentum crew hate her.
If it isn't Starmer I'm done with them.
I find it unbelievable they hid him away during the campaign like he was Labour's Jacob Rees-Mogg.
I find it unbelievable they hid him away during the campaign like he was Labour's Jacob Rees-Mogg.
I think it will be Keir Starmer, I'd probably throw Rebecca Long Bailey and Angela Rayner too.
The media would destroy her. A former single mother and pregnant teenager, the Daily Mail will love that.
Angela Rayner
Sad indictment of the country that so many people would see that as a negative thing.
Had to google him.
He's a white man, so that's a good start in the rural areas. He's posh looking, so that'll appeal to Tory voters too (he's also knighted). You can read his voting record here - https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25353/keir_starmer/holborn_and_st_pancras/votes
Not that it matters for the British voting public. The key questions are, is he full of shit and comfortable lying?
He's a white man, so that's a good start in the rural areas. He's posh looking, so that'll appeal to Tory voters too (he's also knighted). You can read his voting record here - https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25353/keir_starmer/holborn_and_st_pancras/votes
Not that it matters for the British voting public. The key questions are, is he full of shit and comfortable lying?
Even better, Jess Phillips for me.
The system is gamed against Labour, particularly with Scotland gone, so you need to be very good indeed to succeed. It is essential they get some who comes across as moderate and with gravitas. Much as I admire Rayner, it has to be Starmer.
If momentum hate Phillips, then her. Because whoever they pick is likely to be another inept puppet.
She gave a great speech last night on why Labour lost, and didn't even knife Corbyn.
She gave a great speech last night on why Labour lost, and didn't even knife Corbyn.
Against Labour? You meant to say against the Greens, Lib Dems and other small parties? Please don't mistake incompetence with a rigged system. Labour's been reaping the benefits of this system for the entire last century along with the Tories.
But in this case, Labour just screwed up their massive electoral system design flaw advantage over other parties on the left and center, by putting the perfect incompetent boogieman in charge. I mean, all the tabloids had to do was bring up his pro-Soviet period to scare the living daylights out of every moderate in the country. And then he did the rest with lacking leadership, pushing through his hidden agenda against the democratic party processes, tried to strongarm potential allied parties instead of coordinating with them (social skills and solidarity my arse) and basically pushed all the wrong buttons. And not just in the last three years, but for the last decades, as his voting record always disagreed with the majority of Labour MPs, it was impossible for him to pretend he represented the "actual" Labour voter.
As much as I like his approach, Starmer would be a mistake. London MP, remain campainer, grammar school, Oxford University (I know, I know, 11-plus, post grad at Oxford, son of proper working class parents).
I kinda think Jess Phillips would be a good choice, as someone not tied to the current leader, and not really a big voice on either side of the brexit debate. Also, her experience before politics would be a good basis from which to argue for Labour priorities on protecting the vulnerable. She'll never get it though.
I kinda think Jess Phillips would be a good choice, as someone not tied to the current leader, and not really a big voice on either side of the brexit debate. Also, her experience before politics would be a good basis from which to argue for Labour priorities on protecting the vulnerable. She'll never get it though.
I don’t understand this logic either. I get the frustrations people have with momentum, but isolating what’s essentially the most mobilised and active support base is hardly a step forward. No one is suggesting giving it to Richard Burgon, last I checked Starmer has a 66% approval rate amongst grassroots activists.
IDK, like I said earlier, i had to google him and have never heard him speak, but he has the look of a posh, wealthy, white man, which is the look that is popular for voters in this country. They don't seem to like women in charge. The maybot made it because all the other tories were busy stabbing each other in the back and nobody wanted to vote for JC because they think he's a jew hating commie spy.
The aesthetics and soundbites matter in an election much more than policies. Is he part of Labour Friends of Israel?
Ideally, Labour really need a female leader. I'm not sure who though. Not so keen on Long-Bailey.
As a supporter of Corbyn and most of his policies, I'm not against Phillips. I do wonder if she's just a bit too common and combative for the electorate.
Starmer I like, but I think he's too wooden to be a leader.
Anyway, I think the dust needs to settle a little before rushing into a change. It doesn't really matter if Corbyn stays on for a few months now, the damage is done and with a large majority there's not much the opposition can do. Better to get the internal conflicts sorted and find a leader that the whole party can actually get behind this time.
As a supporter of Corbyn and most of his policies, I'm not against Phillips. I do wonder if she's just a bit too common and combative for the electorate.
Starmer I like, but I think he's too wooden to be a leader.
Anyway, I think the dust needs to settle a little before rushing into a change. It doesn't really matter if Corbyn stays on for a few months now, the damage is done and with a large majority there's not much the opposition can do. Better to get the internal conflicts sorted and find a leader that the whole party can actually get behind this time.
Because Momentum is an extension of the politics that has lost this election. The reason it exists is as a proponent of (comparatively) far left policies. A step forward for the Labour party now is a step back. Back to New Labour.
Momentum are mobilised, yeah, but maybe you should ask @Ultimate Grib how much that mobilisation helped in this election.
Well considering the millions of working class Labour types were willing to lend their vote to a silver spooned Etonian toff, I really don’t see this being an issue. If anything he‘s a more genuine poster child for meritocracy than any Tory can claim to be.
I also don’t think him historically being a remainer will work against him in the future. Pretty much the entire country has conceded to Brexit happening and I’d expect the Tories make a mess of it in the next 5 years anyway.
Regardless of what you think of their politics, Momentum are the reason we’ve seen record numbers of people, young or otherwise join Labour. Do you not think it’s best to keep them on board while creating a movement with broad appeal instead of isolating them and then wondering why the youth turnout regresses to its usual levels of apathy.
I was referring to the media, particularly the influence of The Sun and The Mail. I have no arguments with your views on the FPTP system.
They'll vote for Johnson because at least it appears honest for a posh moron to be leader of the Conservative party. That's what the Conservatives are. The Labour leader is held to a different standard - the feeling that some posh boys from their London bubble are playing at socialism, patronising the working class, is a real problem for Labour.
The best active and mobilised support base?
They've called everything wrong and have lost every election. If there's anything to not understand, it's this culture of staying in place. They were humiliated last night. That's not a base to build upon, it's absolutely baffling people refuse to see that.
Now taking their policies and putting them in the hands of people who will use them properly and get us out of this culture of keeping to their own and putting their acolytes in the top position, now that's ideal. A pipe dream I guess though.
But Labour cannot stand still, not after that. They stick with Momentum amd put another crony in charge and we are having this same debate in 5 years 100%
It didn't seem to bother them in 1997.
Honestly they need someone that the Northern voters feel that they could have a beer with and isn't looking down on them. Not sure if Starmer is that man even though he seems like it a good bloke overall.
It’ll be another momentum mouthpiece because they’ve taken over the party.
I'm not suggesting using their policies as the ideological pillars to build on for Labour going forward. I'm questioning the wisdom of attempting to completely isolate and washing your hands off them. The party should align itself as a centre left broad church that's able to garner the loyalty of their grassroots while tempting the moderate ground or those otherwise disillusioned by the Tory vision. It makes more sense to keep the record numbers of young voters engaged and have them knock on doors and canvas en masse, especially as a buffer to the increasingly compromised pro-Tory media.
I think Sadiq Khan would be a good option, but he's got no chance.
As much as I hate to say it, this country is no where near ready to willingly accept a Muslim PM.
The most electable is probably Dan Jarvis. Former British Army Officer. Parachute Regiment. MBE. Served in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq. Former Mayor of Sheffield. MP for Barnsley. 47 years old. Lost his first wife to cancer. Born in Nottingham. Went to comprehensive school.
No idea if he's any good or not. And he has no chance with the current Labour membership, being a centrist and member of Labour Friends of Israel.
No idea if he's any good or not. And he has no chance with the current Labour membership, being a centrist and member of Labour Friends of Israel.
Do you think they'll keep that anyway? And why are you suggesting that someone completely new and fresh will not engage in the youth anyway?
There's a lot of pissed off canvassers, one on here too, who were literally lead up the wrong garden path. They have proven themselves inept time and again.
As I said before, we get another momentum mouth piece, we get the same conversation in 5 years.
What about David Lammy?
Or are we not ready?
Or are we not ready?
He was talked about strongly in 2015 but didn't run in the end.
Stamer for me. I agree on being not sure on whether he has the "personality" to connect with wider electorate but to me he does have the gravitas given some of the exchanges he had in all those Brexit debates over last few months.
Of the females only Angela Raynor really convinces me. Jess Phillips would be a refreshing change given how she speaks her mind but given I'm from Brimingham I honestly think the right wing papers in the run up to next election would produce pull outs in how you couldn't just have a PM with a brummie accent so I'd prefer not to give them that ammunition as the region generally gets enough stick from the media.
Not sure he has the appetite for it.
No, I'm suggesting that shifting all the way to the other end of the spectrum is hardly going to galvanise young voters. I'd trust Starmer in being able to command a broad appeal, Jess Phillips not so much.
He would a good pick, hes very genuine and actually cares unlike most politician's.What about David Lammy?
Or are we not ready?
Think he would be a disaster. I like him in some ways, but he's an obvious Londoner who won't connect with the rest of the country.What about David Lammy?
Or are we not ready?
Pochettino if Ole keeps it up.
Edit: More seriously, Starmer. You need to fight fire with fire and at this point what appeals to me personally isn't what's good for the party.
Edit: More seriously, Starmer. You need to fight fire with fire and at this point what appeals to me personally isn't what's good for the party.
Again those are not just gamed against Labour. A lot of the media you refer to are non-UK, non-EU foreign, if not British "I-want-lower-taxes"-billionaire owned. It's kinda amazing nobody pointed out consistently that they've got huge foreign interests in driving a wedge between the UK and EU. That's one of the things I'm surprised about with regards to Brexit, virtually nobody is exploring the motives of these companies to stimulate it so strongly because they assume they're just "right wing media, thus pro-conservatives".
I mean, look at this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom
The Daily and Sunday Telegraph are owned by Press holdings (British billionaires)
The Sun, The Sun on Sunday, Times and Sunday Times are owned by News Corporation (Australian billionaire)
The Financial Times is owned by Nikkei (Japanese)
The Daily Mail, The Mail on Sunday, Metro, the i and i Weekend are owned by Daily Mail (a company which once lauded nazi practices like the annexation of Czech regions by Nazi Germany)
The Independent is owned by Saudi's and Russians
And so on and so forth.
Only The Guardian and Observer are somewhat independently ran, but actually seem to favour Labour in their coverage, not so much the other parties (with the topic of Brexit being a slight diversion due to Corbyn being an anomaly on the fence).
It's pretty messed up, but the liberals suffer more, since where a left wing paper may support Labour, a liberal paper won't actually promote liberal parties: actual liberals let people decide for themselves, after all.