Yeah if he's indeed repeating the same pattern with the national team then it's a definite worry
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- Thread starter Andy_Cole
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The reports are that Ineos is considering just two candidates for the head coach/ manager: Carrick and “a unicorn’.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_...k-every-box-manchester-united-michael-carrick
Perhaps this was leaked to Ogden as a way to test Luis Enrique’s resolve?
For me, so far (and this may change) my preference would be, in order:
Luis Enrique
Carlo Ancelotti (he is supposedly set to extend at Brazil)
Carrick
Obviously, if you go all out for immediate relevance, it’s Enrique. I feel like that would be an incredible summer, with Enrique and several major transfers in — which would undoubtedly be required by him to even consider coming. It’s an absolute long shot.
Another way to go would be to give Carrick a 1+1 deal and wait to see if Enrique leaves PSG after his contract is up?
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_...k-every-box-manchester-united-michael-carrick
Perhaps this was leaked to Ogden as a way to test Luis Enrique’s resolve?
For me, so far (and this may change) my preference would be, in order:
Luis Enrique
Carlo Ancelotti (he is supposedly set to extend at Brazil)
Carrick
Obviously, if you go all out for immediate relevance, it’s Enrique. I feel like that would be an incredible summer, with Enrique and several major transfers in — which would undoubtedly be required by him to even consider coming. It’s an absolute long shot.
Another way to go would be to give Carrick a 1+1 deal and wait to see if Enrique leaves PSG after his contract is up?
Not just his man-management. I want no part of another manager who thinks he can bypass midfield.
Just changed my vote to Carrick - so let’s hope he wins tonight
I care that we are winning games and as I mentioned, since he joined as interim in January, we are second in the form table.
Hopefully we have someone lined up
Moments counter attacking football which depends on scintillating genius amidst 30-60 minutes of relegation level play every 90 is not sustainable. If Carrick is to get this job, I need to see us dominate a team over 90 for at least one or two games before the end of the season
Don't think Carrick is good enough
Ruben Amorim would suit this set up - we should consider him
We are going to get slaughtered next season in the champions league if we get Carrick as a permanent manager.
So who should be appointed realistically?
No manager alive or dead would dominate with this squad.
We have played very well against CL level teams and currently have 3rd on lock. All this with a squad that we all know has deficiencies so a big part of how any manager will do will be determined by how we will strengthen the squad in the summer.
I think hiring Carrick is as risky as any other hire not named Enrique or Ancelotti. At least with Carrick we won't be tearing up the playbook to go on yet another rebuild, whose result we don't know.
I also share the concerns regarding style and tactical application, some doubt is beginning to crip into my mind that what we are seeing is as good as it will get but I also think that if we get a better midfield and improve our fullback positions, the quality we have upfront will see us through many games even if we won't be that exciting.
Yeah, but it's going to be really hard finding a replacement for Casemiro and getting two good quality full backs. Then integrate them and make the team tick.
I am hoping it works out.
I am hoping Enrique. Think if he wins the cl, he may want a new challenge. It's a very long shot so guessing it will be more or less Carrick but I am struggling to see how we improve to mount a title challenge and go deep in the cl.
That's the worry, improving on this Casemiro looks impossible as he has had a very good season and is in with a shout as the top DM in the league. But as good as he he has been we are lacking in that part of the field but finding a better defender there who is better technically will be a difficult ask.
It's not hard to see this falling apart, our right wing is becoming an issue and the reluctance to platform Lacey is worrying. The full backs are a painful watch with Shaw injured again but we needed to replace him anyway.
There is a lot of work to do on the training ground because players are individually playing well - Sesko has quietly had a good season, Bruno is a POTY candidate, Maguire looks back at his best, Heaven a revelation, Casemiro is arguably the best in the league and Mainoo is returning to form but we are not cohesive. And that's a coaching issue.
Who would you like to see appointed?
Spurs finished top 8 in the group this season.
We'll likely finish top 24 to make the play off round at least, there are weaker teams than us in the competition. It's really not the end of the world if we lose to a better side in the knockouts.
I think even if he wins CL again just look at the players he has at his disposal across the squad. He would have to be utter mad to give up that to come and manage us with nowhere near that quality available to him.
We won't replace Carrick with Glasner, Iraola. If we can't get Enrique or Nagelsmann, Carrick is staying. Which will happen in the end. Probably won't be announced until mid or late May. Maybe they announce it before Forest game on 17th which is our last home game of the season.
I would agree with this. I've not really be in favour of Carrick, cannot argue with his results, they've been fantastic. But performances have been somewhat lacking, we rode our luck against Brentford last night for example.
But having said that, this is a game about results. Why would you replace Carrick unless we can bring in the best of the best? No point taking an educated gamble on a relatively inexperienced (at high level) Manager that may not actually turn out when you have a current Manager that's doing very well.
CL in general is a level below the PL, we would certainly struggle against a select few elite teams (PSG, Bayern in particular) but we've just seen Spurs, a club that might (hopefully) go down, easily make the knock out stages.
I think we know how Carrick wants to play in general - we have his stint when he and McKenna were leading training for Ole and now we have this small sample size. It can be quite entertaining if teams come at us but I think he's a results focused person first and foremost i.e. play to the team's strengths, keep players happy, most away games you set up to not get beaten, reliant on sitting off a bit to create counter attack space, I would say broadly risk adverse from what I have seen (none of these are negatives in honesty, it's all very sensible). I'd say he's a very safe bet for us to be good again next year without really upsetting the top of the table. Get him 2 x CM, some cover at FB and an LW and there's no reason we could not replicate this kind of league finish and have some 'ok' cup runs.
Question is what is the priority for Ineos - do they actually want an attacking manager? Do they simply want to stabilise after the Amorim debacle and somewhat hide themselves from the public eye for a bit. if they have balls, they go for a different coach who lines up with their way of thinking and aren't scared of making an error (and live with the decision). I suspect they will stick with Carrick though, it's a cushty job for Berrada/Wilcox and I think they are hesitant to put their neck on the line after how poorly Amorim ended up.
What's an attacking manager? We've scored 60 goals and could easily end up with 70+ by the season's end. That's more than we managed in some seasons with Fergie.
Stabilising with Carrick isn't a bad plan. Last season for us, Tottenham now and Chelsea for various seasons since 2022 have proven what can happen when things aren't stable.
The priority for INEOS is correctly Champions League qualification. This is something we haven't achieved consistently since 2013 so that is a good aim in the short-medium term
On a wider point, there's too much talk of philosophies/styles of play etc. Unless you are a top level elite side (say PSG now or Barca 2009-2011) you're always going to be more reactive than not. Even guardiola has had to routinely adapt this season to constantly changing circumstances.
Can't compare football now to 20+ years ago though. it's more about how a coach sets up, you can tell by watching a game for about 10mins if a team is going to make it fun or if it's going to be cagey. If you just look at total goals tally you would miss the context of how that was reached. For example, one of our previous highest goals totals was Ole second season (i think) but it forgets about 15 of those goals came from two games (that mental Soton game against 10 men when they decided to keep high pressing and Leeds under Bielsa) and is constantly referred to as proof we played attacking football which makes less sense the more you think about it.
Carrick so far has been sensible, solid and focused on counters, set pieces and generally playing to our team's strengths (good decisions all round this season). There's a reason Maguire and Case look good in this setup for example, because we are not opening up the CM as much deliberately being compact. We could play defensively and score 3 goals a game from corners + end up as the highest ever scoring PL team but that would not mean we are attacking for example.
I'd say attacking managers, real risk taking managers are dying out, but Iraola is one, Enrique is another (both playing very different ways), I think Emery is broadly someone who wants to play offensively as well. There's no real right answer to what is best, but as a fan watching for my own entertainment I would definitely rather see more risk than not + there's enough vulnerability in what I am seeing now with Carrick across almost all games (as good as results have been) that make me think the original idea of him leaving in the summer is probably right.
There are arguments to be made in favour of Carrick, but the assumption that he will at least provide stability and CL qualification is overplayed.
The possibility absolutely exists that results significantly deteriorate next season and we take a major step backwards from our current league position. And all that would take is some combination of the teams around us improving, the performances we're currently seeing proving more illustrative than the results we're seeing, the additional games proving difficult to manage, and Carrick's time at Middlesbrough ultimately proving more representative of his ability as a manager than this interim spell.
People seem to be framing Carrick as a high-floor, low-ceiling appointment. But all it would take for Carrick to prove to be one of the worst managers on the above list is for him to be the manager he appeared to be at Middlesbrough. Which isn't that unlikely. And if he is, he could absolutely bomb here, just as any manager at that level could. The floor isn't as high as some people seem to think.
The possibility absolutely exists that results significantly deteriorate next season and we take a major step backwards from our current league position. And all that would take is some combination of the teams around us improving, the performances we're currently seeing proving more illustrative than the results we're seeing, the additional games proving difficult to manage, and Carrick's time at Middlesbrough ultimately proving more representative of his ability as a manager than this interim spell.
People seem to be framing Carrick as a high-floor, low-ceiling appointment. But all it would take for Carrick to prove to be one of the worst managers on the above list is for him to be the manager he appeared to be at Middlesbrough. Which isn't that unlikely. And if he is, he could absolutely bomb here, just as any manager at that level could. The floor isn't as high as some people seem to think.
Yep, we can't expect Liverpool and Chelsea to have such poor seasons next year. City will likely sort themselves out somewhat so if we genuinely want to make a title challenge any time soon we need more than stability. I think CL will be more competitive/harder next season.
This is what I can't get past. We have a smattering of top top players that will win us games. Thats what all the top teams have. Thats why the top teams have a propensity to play poorly and still get results. Thats entirely unsustainable though when you are reliant on that coupled with the opposition having a stinker in front of goal.
For the past 6-8 games, we're rarely looked comfortable or in control for any serious parts of the game. We've regularly scabbed results we didn't really deserve. Last night was a prime example. That could have been a battering and not in our favour. How we came away with a win is utterly baffling. Eventually results follow performances and we aren't performing well.
Perhaps in the summer we sign 2 top CMs a LW and LB and we are transformed and Carrick has a much easier job. I don't think I believe that though. I think hes a decent enough manager but we need someone who is capable of giving us a proper identity. For all Amorims faults (some of which are entirely his own and some were simply the result of the situation with the squad composition) he was trying to give us an identity. All the top sides have an identity outside of perhaps Real Madrid who largely just assemble a team of top talent and ask the manager to try and cobble something together. We need that. If we don't get that, we will be asking the same questions at the end of next season and the season after.
Who's that?
Chelsea have had one decent Premier League season since 2021. This year isn't the exception.
Liverpool have had as many poor/inconsistent seasons as great ones in the last few years.
There's only really city and Arsenal since 2022 that have have challenged for the title consistently.
I've also changed my vote to Carrick. Reasons being the continued positive results and the lack of a world class managerial certainty to come in.
Yes, I know there's probably no such thing as a certainty but we're not getting a Pep, Klopp, Ancellotti or Conte are we?
Enrique is the only one I would prefer at this moment in time and that's unrealistic. There's no way we are taking him off PSG.
Nagelsmann was my choice when Amorim was appointed but I don't think waiting until the World Cup has finished, makes any sense with a coach needing time to bed in his ideas with a new squad.
Carrick on a maximum of a 2 year contract seems to be the sensible, logical appointment right now. If it goes tits up in 6 months then there's always the chance that Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Ancellotti and the like may be out of a job or fancy a new challenge.
Yes, I know there's probably no such thing as a certainty but we're not getting a Pep, Klopp, Ancellotti or Conte are we?
Enrique is the only one I would prefer at this moment in time and that's unrealistic. There's no way we are taking him off PSG.
Nagelsmann was my choice when Amorim was appointed but I don't think waiting until the World Cup has finished, makes any sense with a coach needing time to bed in his ideas with a new squad.
Carrick on a maximum of a 2 year contract seems to be the sensible, logical appointment right now. If it goes tits up in 6 months then there's always the chance that Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Ancellotti and the like may be out of a job or fancy a new challenge.
It's Carricks isn't now? Especially with CL qualification and the big names being unavailable
Not a manager that’s only managed Middlesbrough in his career. And our style of play hasn’t changed much since he’s come in. We’ve been boring.
I’ve kind of accepted that Carrick will be our head coach next season but I hope that he’s given a 2 year contract at most or even a 1 year with us having the option of the second year contract and I hope he’s given a strong coaching team around him that have experience at the highest level.
Watching PSG v Bayern, this is the football we have to aspire to, Carrick is not the man to do this. I would like to see Iraola as he plays a high speed pressing game even if he fails it sets astandard for a succesor. Carricks anti football is not for me.
How many players are required to play that football from the current squad we have.
Answer that question and you’ll see why Carrick makes sense.
Break the bank for Enrique. There's a potential opportunity to do something next season, with questions over pep and the charges, Liverpool seemingly sticking with slot, and arsenal being arsenal.
That tells me that we should find the right manager and get started!
Why waste time building towards something below where we want to be?
Carrick at his best plays a similar style to Bayern tonight.
They're currently 5-2 down so make of that what you will
Enrique would need years to build something like this PSG team here sadly. As brilliant as Casemiro was yesterday and throughout the season and as good as Shaw or Maguire have been at times they benefit from set ups to protect them. It would not translate well.
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