I can't quite decide if Carrick is a poor man's Southgate or Southgate is a poor man's Carrick.
Next Manager Poll
- Thread starter Andy_Cole
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Or maybe Holland being the commonality is the biggest influence on how we play. Our first few games under Carrick were not like this. Suddenly Holland gets media acclaim as the ‘tactical guru’ and we resort to this bland, timid unimaginative style.
The 1st half against Liverpool was reminiscent of the City game at Old Trafford, which was our best performance?
Players did their best to try throw it away 2nd half but not sure how today can be called timid and unimaginative.
Oh would be absolutely phenomenal achievement, mind you I'm not sure Villa look capable of winning Europa League on last 3 games
List of reasons and number of managers who should replace Carrick are getting fewer and fewer the more games he manages.
I still believe it's going to be entirely different when there are expectations and CL games to deal with. The squad still lacks physical qualities though, we're not particularly strong or fast or seem to have a lot of stamina, which is disappointing as we're playing fewer than a game a week. We should be running like Bayern & PSG players.
Still don't trust this group of players to keep showing up for the manager, especially when things get physically demanding. Not sure how that can change though.
I still believe it's going to be entirely different when there are expectations and CL games to deal with. The squad still lacks physical qualities though, we're not particularly strong or fast or seem to have a lot of stamina, which is disappointing as we're playing fewer than a game a week. We should be running like Bayern & PSG players.
Still don't trust this group of players to keep showing up for the manager, especially when things get physically demanding. Not sure how that can change though.
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A lot of this can be addressed in the transfer market. Signing the correct type of profile who fight for the club and stay away from bad mouthing on social media etc. also the traits that the new signings have… we need physical midfielders who can run a lot.
If Carrick doesn’t get the gig full time now and whoever comes in makes a mess of it then Ineos will be on a hiding to nothing.
It has to be Carrick. He’s done an amazing job. All the stats have exceeded expectations, he’s got us champions league again playing decent football, the players love him, he’s made the team functional again despite glaring weaknesses in several areas.
This isn’t some emotional decision. Every metric points to him doing such a fantastic job so it would be insane to get someone else in unless that someone else is Enrique. Everyone else is a downgrade at this point.
This isn’t some emotional decision. Every metric points to him doing such a fantastic job so it would be insane to get someone else in unless that someone else is Enrique. Everyone else is a downgrade at this point.
I think the reason that there's still some reticence from some fans and that this isn't a done deal is that it's the metrics that actually say otherwise. The metrics tell us that Carrick isn't doing as well as our results would suggest.
I'm no fan of XG and would rather follow the eye test, but someone in another thread mentioned that his XG is considerably worse than Amorim's (I googled, he's right) and Amorim was quite literally the worst manager we've ever had. I love Carrick and I love what joy he's brought me this season (and not for a moment am I comparing him to Amorim ... I'd take the latter any day of the week and would like to erase Amorim from memory), but football needs more than just feelings and emotion.
There’s clearly been something — some ineffable quality, whether it’s Carrick himself, variance or dumb luck — that’s allowed United to outperform what the underlying numbers suggest should be happening. But that kind of overperformance isn’t something you can sustain indefinitely. Statistically, everything drifts back toward its baseline. It’s like hitting black five times in a row on a roulette wheel — you don't immediately assume that you're going to roll black for the next five times and that's what we're hoping by betting on Carrick. The only way to know whether Carrick is the exception or whether this is just a hot streak is to keep going… which is exactly what makes giving him the job such a risk.
But, I'm playing devil's advocate. Because I really, really want to believe that he can do it. While logic is nudging my shoulder and telling me not to get too excited.
I've changed my mind from Enrique. I think the bigger risk is in not giving Carrick the job. Will be very interesting to see how we finish now that CL is assured. If he can keep the team motivated and performing then I think he's got to get it. Several big names have come and faultered. He is getting results, playing good competitive football.
Yes, it could be similar to Ole, but I would rather Carrick stay and fail, than someone else come in and barely succeed. He deserves the chance, he has dug us out of what had become a hopeless season, with no shot at CL...
Yes, it could be similar to Ole, but I would rather Carrick stay and fail, than someone else come in and barely succeed. He deserves the chance, he has dug us out of what had become a hopeless season, with no shot at CL...
I hope we get the new manager announcement as soon as possible now CL football is confirmed, we shouldnt wait until the summer when they'll be a number of other clubs looking or managers as well
Would you keep Carrick then?
No, I would rather us appoint a manager with more experiance at this level
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I've made my peace with Carrick being manager for next year despite my scepticism.
The players like him which might seem a minor thing, but they have a tendency to not really like managers too much as we've seen over the last 13 years, and if they don't take to a new manager that can derail our season.
Secondly I'm not sure this squad will be in a place where it's ready to transition to truly progressive brand of football that we want to see. The technical level in terms of ball retention isn't there, the attacking quality of the full backs isn't there, the pace in defence isn't there for a high line, the legs in midfield aren't there - and I don't think we can resolve all of that in one summer for the new manager. A manager coming in trying to achieve a play style with this group that they aren't capable of is another way our season can get derailed.
Another season of Oleball is probably about as good as it will get for this group of players.
My main concern though is around recruitment. Are the recruitment team recruiting to play an enhanced version of Oleball because that's what the manager will be playing, or are they conscious that they need to be recruiting players that the next elite manager will be happy with?
If it's in our mind that eventually an elite attacking manager takes charge after Carrick steadies the ship for a year or two, you actually have to hand over a squad he'll be happy with. So no more £130m on Bissaka and Maguire for example (yes I know that was under previous regime), and no Ugartes.
The players like him which might seem a minor thing, but they have a tendency to not really like managers too much as we've seen over the last 13 years, and if they don't take to a new manager that can derail our season.
Secondly I'm not sure this squad will be in a place where it's ready to transition to truly progressive brand of football that we want to see. The technical level in terms of ball retention isn't there, the attacking quality of the full backs isn't there, the pace in defence isn't there for a high line, the legs in midfield aren't there - and I don't think we can resolve all of that in one summer for the new manager. A manager coming in trying to achieve a play style with this group that they aren't capable of is another way our season can get derailed.
Another season of Oleball is probably about as good as it will get for this group of players.
My main concern though is around recruitment. Are the recruitment team recruiting to play an enhanced version of Oleball because that's what the manager will be playing, or are they conscious that they need to be recruiting players that the next elite manager will be happy with?
If it's in our mind that eventually an elite attacking manager takes charge after Carrick steadies the ship for a year or two, you actually have to hand over a squad he'll be happy with. So no more £130m on Bissaka and Maguire for example (yes I know that was under previous regime), and no Ugartes.
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Who have you got in mind realistically?
Who is that, that is available?
I‘m changing my vote to Carrick. If not him, Farioli.
Another poster made this point that I think was spot on: If Carrick has no relation with United and done this exact same job, people would be 100% wanted him to stay without hesitation.
That's not true. If Southgate had achieved the same results not everyone would want him to stay, and he's got a far more impressive cv than Carrick.
There are going to be question marks over anyone without experience of winning trophies, whether they have history with United or not
You have a point regarding Southgate.
I loved Carrick as a player and think he is a promising manager...but I can't shake the reality that the most logical candidates (waiting until after the world cup for anyone is a horrid idea) are Iraola and Carrick. In that head to head matchup, it's very hard for me to look past Iraola.
I just also can't shake the feeling that the job might be too big for Iraola, however feeling very torn
It's unfortunate but it has been a long time since a new signing or anyone for that matter came to the first team and improved their physical attributes.
We're playing 1 game a week, less than that, I want to see us run like they ran in the PSG Bayern game. Nothing to do with tactics or how technical the players are, just improving speed strength and stamina will see us get 8-10 additional points every season.
Something that needs to be addressed internally too apart from the player profiles.
Changing my vote to Carrick, since Enrique doesn't seem likely. I'd keep Carrick and have INEOS continue to build a squad they feel fits what United needs rather than chasing a guy like Tuchel for example or whoever who will have their own particular wishes and needs. We've done that already. It never works out for us. Carrick seems content with the 'head coach' role. It's low risk, but I like that at this point in time. He's also the best fit out of any remaining names left, we know how he's going to play.
I don't see Carrick transforming this team into some footballing machine like Bayern or PSG next season, but I don't see any manager who's available at this time who will do that either. Iraola is a capable manager, but it's a bigger gamble and if we move on from Carrick I'd rather see them go for someone more proven than Iraola. I'd rather keep Carrick on a shorter deal than seeing them give Iraola a massive contract and him potentially shitting the bed because the job is too big. The football we're playing now isn't glamorous but Carrick has shown us he's able to get results.
Build a solid squad this summer and if they feel there is a better option available next summer take the manager who is a good fit for whatever the squad looks like after next year (no 3 or 5 at the back or married to a system nonsense). And hell, if Carrick proves he's capable of more than what he's shown us thus far (improving the actual product on the field, not just the results) that would be an even better outcome.
I don't see Carrick transforming this team into some footballing machine like Bayern or PSG next season, but I don't see any manager who's available at this time who will do that either. Iraola is a capable manager, but it's a bigger gamble and if we move on from Carrick I'd rather see them go for someone more proven than Iraola. I'd rather keep Carrick on a shorter deal than seeing them give Iraola a massive contract and him potentially shitting the bed because the job is too big. The football we're playing now isn't glamorous but Carrick has shown us he's able to get results.
Build a solid squad this summer and if they feel there is a better option available next summer take the manager who is a good fit for whatever the squad looks like after next year (no 3 or 5 at the back or married to a system nonsense). And hell, if Carrick proves he's capable of more than what he's shown us thus far (improving the actual product on the field, not just the results) that would be an even better outcome.
If Carrick gets the job, what changes would we like to see to his assistant coaches?
Ideally add that Danks guy from Bayern as they worked together at Middlesbrough, would be nice to pick up someone from one of our rivals too.
Would be ideal if he managed to keep hold of Steve Holland as well
Yeah I hope he pushes to keep him
I’d really like the rumours about bayerns assistant being true. Danks is meant to be an highly rated coach and very good attacking wise. He could transform our attack.
It’s not an infallible quality if you also look at the defensive underlying metrics.
I’ve always been hesitant about us going for Carrick. The main reason being we’ve particularly struggled in short weeks/mid week fixtures. Also, statistically, we’ve way over achieved.
But it got me thinking. This isn’t roulette like someone above compared it to as an analogy. It isn’t pure odds. Teams create their own luck at times because there are immeasurable dynamics at play. Simply having the belief you can turn a match around actually means something. It’s doesn’t boil down to the statistics of how often you have or haven’t done it in the past. And that’s just one example.
Carrick seems to being the right attitude. He’s calm, he provides stability, and he seems to lead by example in how he carries himself. He seems unfazed, simple, and grounded.
So why can’t we keep him and instead invest in a proper support structure around him in terms of coaches? Almost (try to) capture the best of both worlds?
But it got me thinking. This isn’t roulette like someone above compared it to as an analogy. It isn’t pure odds. Teams create their own luck at times because there are immeasurable dynamics at play. Simply having the belief you can turn a match around actually means something. It’s doesn’t boil down to the statistics of how often you have or haven’t done it in the past. And that’s just one example.
Carrick seems to being the right attitude. He’s calm, he provides stability, and he seems to lead by example in how he carries himself. He seems unfazed, simple, and grounded.
So why can’t we keep him and instead invest in a proper support structure around him in terms of coaches? Almost (try to) capture the best of both worlds?
Luis Enrique is the standout but can't see it happening so how do they go for anyone else other than Carrick.
This shall never be forgiven
there's too much gravity
getting results
"knows united"
no need to pay big fee
not likely to cause a shit storm
So you are saying they are taking cheap option
I am leaning towards Carrick, but I hope that when the club supports him with new signings, the players are signed for the club, not for Carrick, we need players that can work in systems where a different manager can do with them good work too.
Carrick himself is evidence that a good coach should be able to get the best out of a squad filled with good players, and to be fair to INEOS, they are signing players that they deem to be good enough for any coach (Cunha, Mbeumo, Sesko, Yoro, Dorgu, Heaven and Maz), these are players that are either good starters or good bench options, Ugarte and Zirkzee are the exception as both are not good enough even as squad options.
They (INEOS) also need to be ruthless and get rid of players that bring zero value, Ugarte & Zirkzee are the obvious shouts, luckily Sancho & Malacia are leaving when their contracts expire, we are getting money for Hojlund and we are likely to sell Rashford, but players like Mount, MdL who I like a lot, and even Martinez should be moved on if possible, they are not bad players at all and Martinez is actually a quality player, but their injury issues are detrimental to team, especially considering that next season we will play at the very least anything between 50-60 games next season and they didn't even manage to play many games in a season where we played only 40 games!! the club renewed for Maguire simply because they do not trust them to stay fit for long term and Yoro & Heaven are good youngsters but not ready to be made as starters for a team trying to compete for trophies.
Carrick himself is evidence that a good coach should be able to get the best out of a squad filled with good players, and to be fair to INEOS, they are signing players that they deem to be good enough for any coach (Cunha, Mbeumo, Sesko, Yoro, Dorgu, Heaven and Maz), these are players that are either good starters or good bench options, Ugarte and Zirkzee are the exception as both are not good enough even as squad options.
They (INEOS) also need to be ruthless and get rid of players that bring zero value, Ugarte & Zirkzee are the obvious shouts, luckily Sancho & Malacia are leaving when their contracts expire, we are getting money for Hojlund and we are likely to sell Rashford, but players like Mount, MdL who I like a lot, and even Martinez should be moved on if possible, they are not bad players at all and Martinez is actually a quality player, but their injury issues are detrimental to team, especially considering that next season we will play at the very least anything between 50-60 games next season and they didn't even manage to play many games in a season where we played only 40 games!! the club renewed for Maguire simply because they do not trust them to stay fit for long term and Yoro & Heaven are good youngsters but not ready to be made as starters for a team trying to compete for trophies.
I still think we should go for Iraola. If we don't go for him there's a risk he ends up at Chelsea or Liverpool.
If we let Carrick go, his next realistic move would be somewhere like a Burnley or West Ham. He's done a brilliant job but his football reminds me too much of Solskjaer. I don't think its ever going to be league and or Champions League winning stuff.
Iraola feels more like Klopp style football.
If we let Carrick go, his next realistic move would be somewhere like a Burnley or West Ham. He's done a brilliant job but his football reminds me too much of Solskjaer. I don't think its ever going to be league and or Champions League winning stuff.
Iraola feels more like Klopp style football.
that's just one factor. im saying there are multiple reasons for their decision, but one of them isn't because he's a highly respected tactician.
Yeah I couod definitely get on board with that idea