Top 4 minimum.
No excuses.
No excuses.
Next Season Expectations
- Thread starter elnorte
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
£140m+ is being massively supported. It's as much a net spend as we've ever given any manager. We are the highest spending Premier League side so far and I don't expect that to change.
So yes, he has been massively supported. We're not going to address another two key positions in the same window when it would probably push us past £250m. Not happening, even for a more experienced manager.
I'm delighted with Wan-Bissaka & Maguire coming into defence, we now have a very good back 5, and I would expect our goals against column could be almost halved from last season's debacle.
I don't see Lukaku as being a particularly important loss, and I do believe that we don't need to sign a like for like replacement to score enough goals. I've got faith in Rashford & Martial to take their chance.
Very concerned about the lack of investment in our Midfield, but maybe a rabbit might be pulled out of the hat in the last couple of days.
Realistically, without a new MF, I think we are looking at coming up short in the top 4 race, and I'd expect us to finish 5th.
Get a quality signing in, and I'd be optimistic enough to believe that we could be finishing 3rd.
Not feeling that we'll do particularly well in the Cups or Europa, but again, one more quality signing, and my feeling could change.
I don't see Lukaku as being a particularly important loss, and I do believe that we don't need to sign a like for like replacement to score enough goals. I've got faith in Rashford & Martial to take their chance.
Very concerned about the lack of investment in our Midfield, but maybe a rabbit might be pulled out of the hat in the last couple of days.
Realistically, without a new MF, I think we are looking at coming up short in the top 4 race, and I'd expect us to finish 5th.
Get a quality signing in, and I'd be optimistic enough to believe that we could be finishing 3rd.
Not feeling that we'll do particularly well in the Cups or Europa, but again, one more quality signing, and my feeling could change.
Fans are expecting £200m plus support - that is not going to happen.
£140m is a big number, Ole has been backed by Ed Woodward. He has no excuse if he fails.
With the back 5, if we concede more than 30 goals this season that is just poor management.
£140m is a big number, Ole has been backed by Ed Woodward. He has no excuse if he fails.
With the back 5, if we concede more than 30 goals this season that is just poor management.
Given our transfer activity so far, and the way last season ended, the upcoming season should be about seeing a more solid defence, creating more chances, especially at home, and playing with better pace and pressing. If we do that consistently and someone steps up to put the goals away, we should be confident of beating at least 14 of the other 19 teams in the league, and we should be giving ourselves a chance against the others. The overall aim has to be top 4 and creating solid momentum for 2020/21, anything else for this club is a failure.
You have to remember the window isnt closed yet - If we sell Lukaku for 70 and thats likely and Darmain and possibly one other - CB probably then net spend will be 50-70. Everyone knows the team is not good enough. we were 6th! Most of last season everyone was saying lets stabilize and get to the transfer window and spend big. We fixed defense. Good work. But there is glaring holes in midfield and attack. Big ginormous holes! Our midfield was sht last year and now Herrera left and Matic has further regressed its even worse. All thats holding it together is hope in Mctominay and Pogba who doesnt want to be here. Right wing has been a shambles for how long! And we are on a wing and a prayer to see if Martial or Rashford can step up to score 20 goals. everything is ifs and buts. We are not some mid table team. This is Manchester United.
On top of all that we lose significant sponsorship money if we dont get Champions league next year. And we will further be in a hole of attracting players and it will cost more to get them. Why not spend that money now? Makes no business sense, no football sense, no any sense.
mandzukic 6-10 mill + 1 midfielder (Pick one - Eriksen, Le Celso, Ndomble(I know we missed him), Parety etc) for 60-80 mill would being spend to 230 max - After sales 150/160. Thats minimum of what this transfer should have looked like for a team in our situation. 200 should have been the target and we should have added Pepe or a RW. Yeah its a lot of money but if Villa can spend 110 plus then we can spend 200 easy.
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Lukaku is going so you can scrap 75 million of that net spend for a start, and the huge overspend on Maguire is the greatest part of it.
Imagine one of the richest clubs in the world considering spending 250 million to turn us around from being a 6th place club?
The Glaziers have reduced expectations so far that many actually consider this summer as being "massively supported"
I'd stress that I am talking about what we have done so far, but you may turn out to be right depending on how much we get back.
If we sell Lukaku we could buy a player for a similar amount of money, so it's very up in the air until the end of August as to what our net spend actually is. However, some people just look at the money spent and not what came in. One more big money signing probably means we have 'spent' more than any other season, regardless of what we recoup from player sales, so he has been supported extremely well regardless IMO.
It makes some sense if your only interest is in dividend payments and servicing the mortgage you took out to "buy" the club.
we finally have a very solid defence, I recken if the attackers score around 10-15 each we can battle it out for 3rd if not I recken we will get 4th, cant see arsenal or chelsea getting top 4
If we had a top, settled squad like Liverpool or City then I would agree with you.
However the squad needed serious strengthening, we have done that in part for the defense tbf but have left the other gaps remain. Infact our midfield is significantly weakened.
I agree with what you are saying. We have glaring holes in CM and RW but you have to look at it in a realistic way. If we sell Lukaku and replace him with another CM then it's been a good window.
CM - there isn't much out there. A top player that will want to come to United? How many can you name? We want to avoid signing someone who will take a while to adapt or unproven. I.E Fred.
RW - again who is available that is the quality required? Sancho but he wont come without Champions League.
It is all well and good saying there are glaring holes, but reality needs to kick in that we are not in the correct space to attract players without paying over the odds.
We were 6th because of conceding 50 odd goals, and not having a style of football.
A new defence and some sort of idea what we want to play should be good enough to get top 4.
With Matic in his current form a back 6 might be needed.
I still maintain that spending £140m is huge support for any manager. It's very much possible that we spend the Lukaku money on a midfielder or forward of some kind (much like the Dybala swap would have been), so the spend could be around the same. If we do sign a player for well in excess of £40m then Ole has actually been supported by an initial outlay of more than Mourinho or Van Gaal received. I find it hard to see this as not being massively supported in a transfer window, especially for someone with Ole's record (or lack thereof).
If we were a team that consistently had a net spend of £150m+ maybe it could be a different story, but as it stands, he's been given enough for the board to say "finish 4th".
If we get a decent midfielder in before the window shuts i can see us getting top 4
Without a midfielder we'll struggle. The attack is also worrying, nothing ive ever seen from Martial or Rashford suggests they can stay #1 consistent and #2 score enough goals.
Without a midfielder we'll struggle. The attack is also worrying, nothing ive ever seen from Martial or Rashford suggests they can stay #1 consistent and #2 score enough goals.
No doubt the board will say exactly that, as it stands today I think that is a huge ask for the team.
The goals conceded also depends on the protection that the midfield gives and the attacking threat we possess.
You could drive a cart and horse through our DM so Maguire is going to get plenty of work to do.
Champions of England and win the Europa League.
Getting CL spot.
Whether it being winning EL or getting a top-4.
Don't have any expectations to our PL placement.
This season is gonna be a youngster transition season.
Whether it being winning EL or getting a top-4.
Don't have any expectations to our PL placement.
This season is gonna be a youngster transition season.
1 quality midfielder and we are ready to go. No top 4 if we don't bring midfielder in.
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Forget about what will happen by the end of the window. Yes if we get extra players then the story is different. Lets talk as it stands right now. Ole took over a club in free fall. Players that downed tools twice. Cant be arsed half the time. Finished sixth. Glaring holes all over the place. No consistent striker. Midfield a shambles. Right wing a joke. Best player Pogba wants out. I am 100 percent sure if you dragged Ole in a room behind closed doors or ask any football person what would it take to get that team to guaranteed 4th then they would say a lot more than a CB and a RB and a young up and coming winger from the championship. And the ridiculous thing is that our standards have been set so low we are targeting fourth! Fourth! Should I say it again fourth! Its like fourth is the new first.
Yes its possible we will make it. Who knows its football. Leicester won the league. But fourth is our first. It will take so many factors and good luck to get there. Thats not supporting the manager. Thats doing bare minimum and asking for a miracle.
We have one creator in the squad in Pogba and no goal scorers.
To early to say yet, I’ll wait until the window is closed!
I expect 4th.
I think we've done enough defensively to be a solid unit.
Going forward though, unless the younger lads step up, I do worry about us in attack.
Deflated by the lack of transfers going forward. I was expecting a top 3 challenge and a foundation made but just don't see that now
I think we've done enough defensively to be a solid unit.
Going forward though, unless the younger lads step up, I do worry about us in attack.
Deflated by the lack of transfers going forward. I was expecting a top 3 challenge and a foundation made but just don't see that now
Amount you've spent and expectations of the club = top 4 at least. Going for the title is a stretch right now but building a platform to challenge in 20/21 is needed. Yeah, you are light in the Striker and midfield positions and you should be looking to strengthen that before the window closes but even if you don't you need to be getting top 4 or CL football next year.
Similar to us in how we have spent. Although we only have -20m net spend atm due to our outgoings we need to be top 6 this season or at least pipped to the post. European football is a must as I wouldn't be surprised if we brought in two more signings.
Similar to us in how we have spent. Although we only have -20m net spend atm due to our outgoings we need to be top 6 this season or at least pipped to the post. European football is a must as I wouldn't be surprised if we brought in two more signings.
Well the midfield with McT and Pogba could do a job against 60% of teams at home, maybe Ole will have to think of different formations V top teams and away from home to home matches?
The thing I noticed last season was the distance between our defence and ST was way too big, any half decent footballer can exploit that space.
Right now I'm expecting to be 5/6th. We have no doubt improved the defence. I don't know how good Lindelof is - still wonder if he only looked good in comparison to the dross around him. But either way Maguire and Wan-Bissaka look tremendous additions.
But we've completely neglected the midfield. Pogba doesn't want to be here and Matic is so far beyond his best, which may not have been good enough or fitted Oles play style anyway. The quality and depth of that midfield is frightening. Nowhere near good enough. Honestly, looking at the midfield - we're mid table.
And there is no one in the attack that can be prolific - in fact nevermind prolific - no one is reliable, consistent, talented or driven enough.
The more I consider our squad 6th is about right for us.
But we've completely neglected the midfield. Pogba doesn't want to be here and Matic is so far beyond his best, which may not have been good enough or fitted Oles play style anyway. The quality and depth of that midfield is frightening. Nowhere near good enough. Honestly, looking at the midfield - we're mid table.
And there is no one in the attack that can be prolific - in fact nevermind prolific - no one is reliable, consistent, talented or driven enough.
The more I consider our squad 6th is about right for us.
If we get two more players then it has been recognised and he has been supported.
If that's our lot then we will have more the last 5 seasons again.
I truly believe a dm is so crucial to our season that a good purchase could see us aim top 3 and see what happens , but none will see us finish 5 or 6 again, possibly worse depending on how well wolves, Everton and Leicester progress.
A right winger has been needed for years but Gomes ,greenwood, lingard and James are workable options once other areas sorted, we simply cannot patch up our midfield.
In fantasy land, were we to sign a midfielder plus eriksen, I’d honestly hold out home for staying in the mix for title until late in season.
A right winger has been needed for years but Gomes ,greenwood, lingard and James are workable options once other areas sorted, we simply cannot patch up our midfield.
In fantasy land, were we to sign a midfielder plus eriksen, I’d honestly hold out home for staying in the mix for title until late in season.
The problem with considering 4th place as a successful target then anything below is a complete failure. You have to aim to be first so that it cuts you some slack if you come 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. As a team of such wealth, history and expectation I would say we are setting the bar too low. We certainly have not done enough to make me feel very confident about the new season. Teams who finished just below us last season will quite rightly be aiming for top six and if one of them gets fourth they would consider it a great success. Just because we might consider City and Pool to be beyond us at the moment that does not mean other clubs look at us as being out of reach. We will have a hell of a job fighting off the likes of Wolves, Leicester and Everton and possibly another "rogue" outfit.
I am sure the signings so far will improve us a lot but I am nervous about our ability to score goals regularly and also I am concerned that the overall strength of the squad is not good enough. One or two injuries to key players could prove to be disastrous even over a short period. Even without injuries we have little ability to rotate players to rest when needed.
We have let the gap between us and the top two become too great and we are impatient to close that gap but at the same time we are becoming unable to hold our nerve when needed and also make adjustments to the squad without paying top whack for just about every player we sign. As has been said many times before we will not turn this around overnight but we should never settle for fourth as anything but the the least we should achieve. Anything less is FAILURE and we need to recognise that.
1. Man City - Still the team to beat, and my tip to win the Champions League as well. They've got mega rich owners, a top manager and players to boot. Unstoppable.
2. Liverpool - The only team capable of challenging City for the title, getting 96 points and still not winning the title is incredible. Have loads of firepower and a good defense and midfield as well.
3. Tottenham - Same as the last few years, just not quite consistent enough to win PL. But, unfortunately, they are better than we are ATM. Like Liverpool, have plenty of goals in them, but not as good in defense or midfield.
4. Chelsea - Hazard will be impossible to replace, Pulisic and the young player (whichever ones Frank gives an opportunity to) step up to the plate.
5. Man United - Just a bunch of individuals rather than a team. Pogba is a joke, Wan Bissaka isn't what he is cracked up to be and Harry Maguire is just a fat version of Rio Ferdinand. The manager isn't great either.
6. Arsenal - Like Man United, just a bunch of individuals either than a team. The keeper isn't particularly great, the midfield is unbalanced and their defense is a disaster waiting to happen. Their forwards are good though, but they can't keep carrying the team.
7. Everton - Will have their ups and downs, but with the right signings and a bit more consistency can be the best of the rest outside the top six.
8. Wolves - Neat and tidy side, but lack a bit of firepower at times, and being in the Europa league might hinder rather than help their chances of improving on last years' fine effort
9. C Palace - Depends whether they can keep Zaha, but with Roy Hodgson at the helm, they are in safe hands.
10. Leicester - Not sure what to make of them. The one worry for them is Jamie Vardy isn't getting any younger, and not exactly watertight at the back either. Lots of creativity in the team though.
11. West Ham - Same old, same old. Arnoutovic is no great loss though, he's more trouble than he's worth Should have no problems about a relegation battle.
12. Watford - Form faded badly at the end of lat season, and that cup final hammering by Man City will still be fresh in the mind. Mind you, they're manger Javi Gracia is a shrewd operator and will keep them afloat for another season at least. Only worry is Troy Deeney is the wrong side of 30, how many more seasons will they get out of him?
13. Bournemouth - Full of goals in attack, but also full of holes at the back. For me, it's the former category that will be the reason they survive once again, they play good football unlike several other teams I could mention.
14. Norwich - For me, the best equipped of the promoted teams to survive. Play fearless attacking football, if Teemu Pukki can score 15 goals or more, they'll be fine. A bit leaky at the back though.
15. Southampton - Ralph Hassenhutl did well to keep them up last season, he made them better organized at the back but they struggled to score goals. Danny Ings was too injury prone, Shane Long is a willing worker but not a good finisher, and Charlie Austin has been a huge flop thus far. They will be hoping Che Adams can remedy the chronic lack of goals,
16. Burnley - Would love it if they went down, horrible team and manager to boot. But will probably stay up again, with their cynical tactics. Lack of goals again could be the problem, Ashley Barnes and Chris Wood don't score too many goals.
17. Newcastle - The fat one has gone, but the other fat one (Mike Ashley) is still there, so that means more doom and gloom for the Geordie faithful. Whatever you think of Steve Bruce, he's in a lose-lose situation. Both strikers Rondon and Perez have gone, and be given buttons and beads as cash to replace them. The only reason I feel they'll survive is there are 3 worse teams than them.
18. Brighton - The decision to sack Chris Hughton will come back to bite them on the backside. OK, they slid down the table towards the end of last season, but Graham Potter as Hughton's replacement? What did he do at Swansea that was so great I ask? If you gave me a choice between Hughton or Potter to manage my team, I would pick Hughton every time. Glen Murray can't go on forever, and there is a lack of creativity in the team as well. They're going down.
19. Aston Villa - A welcome return to the PL, but Jack Grealish apart, none of their players are top flight standard. A long, hard season beckons., and it will end in relegation.
20. Sheff Utd - Chris Wilder has worked miracles there, and he'll have to work another one if the Blades are to survive in the ruthless world of the Premiership. Unfortunately, I think they will come up well short.
Predictions:
EPL: Man City
Europa League: ?
FA Cup:Chelsea
Carabao Cup: Tottenham
League 1: Sunderland
League 2 Plymouth
2. Liverpool - The only team capable of challenging City for the title, getting 96 points and still not winning the title is incredible. Have loads of firepower and a good defense and midfield as well.
3. Tottenham - Same as the last few years, just not quite consistent enough to win PL. But, unfortunately, they are better than we are ATM. Like Liverpool, have plenty of goals in them, but not as good in defense or midfield.
4. Chelsea - Hazard will be impossible to replace, Pulisic and the young player (whichever ones Frank gives an opportunity to) step up to the plate.
5. Man United - Just a bunch of individuals rather than a team. Pogba is a joke, Wan Bissaka isn't what he is cracked up to be and Harry Maguire is just a fat version of Rio Ferdinand. The manager isn't great either.
6. Arsenal - Like Man United, just a bunch of individuals either than a team. The keeper isn't particularly great, the midfield is unbalanced and their defense is a disaster waiting to happen. Their forwards are good though, but they can't keep carrying the team.
7. Everton - Will have their ups and downs, but with the right signings and a bit more consistency can be the best of the rest outside the top six.
8. Wolves - Neat and tidy side, but lack a bit of firepower at times, and being in the Europa league might hinder rather than help their chances of improving on last years' fine effort
9. C Palace - Depends whether they can keep Zaha, but with Roy Hodgson at the helm, they are in safe hands.
10. Leicester - Not sure what to make of them. The one worry for them is Jamie Vardy isn't getting any younger, and not exactly watertight at the back either. Lots of creativity in the team though.
11. West Ham - Same old, same old. Arnoutovic is no great loss though, he's more trouble than he's worth Should have no problems about a relegation battle.
12. Watford - Form faded badly at the end of lat season, and that cup final hammering by Man City will still be fresh in the mind. Mind you, they're manger Javi Gracia is a shrewd operator and will keep them afloat for another season at least. Only worry is Troy Deeney is the wrong side of 30, how many more seasons will they get out of him?
13. Bournemouth - Full of goals in attack, but also full of holes at the back. For me, it's the former category that will be the reason they survive once again, they play good football unlike several other teams I could mention.
14. Norwich - For me, the best equipped of the promoted teams to survive. Play fearless attacking football, if Teemu Pukki can score 15 goals or more, they'll be fine. A bit leaky at the back though.
15. Southampton - Ralph Hassenhutl did well to keep them up last season, he made them better organized at the back but they struggled to score goals. Danny Ings was too injury prone, Shane Long is a willing worker but not a good finisher, and Charlie Austin has been a huge flop thus far. They will be hoping Che Adams can remedy the chronic lack of goals,
16. Burnley - Would love it if they went down, horrible team and manager to boot. But will probably stay up again, with their cynical tactics. Lack of goals again could be the problem, Ashley Barnes and Chris Wood don't score too many goals.
17. Newcastle - The fat one has gone, but the other fat one (Mike Ashley) is still there, so that means more doom and gloom for the Geordie faithful. Whatever you think of Steve Bruce, he's in a lose-lose situation. Both strikers Rondon and Perez have gone, and be given buttons and beads as cash to replace them. The only reason I feel they'll survive is there are 3 worse teams than them.
18. Brighton - The decision to sack Chris Hughton will come back to bite them on the backside. OK, they slid down the table towards the end of last season, but Graham Potter as Hughton's replacement? What did he do at Swansea that was so great I ask? If you gave me a choice between Hughton or Potter to manage my team, I would pick Hughton every time. Glen Murray can't go on forever, and there is a lack of creativity in the team as well. They're going down.
19. Aston Villa - A welcome return to the PL, but Jack Grealish apart, none of their players are top flight standard. A long, hard season beckons., and it will end in relegation.
20. Sheff Utd - Chris Wilder has worked miracles there, and he'll have to work another one if the Blades are to survive in the ruthless world of the Premiership. Unfortunately, I think they will come up well short.
Predictions:
EPL: Man City
Europa League: ?
FA Cup:Chelsea
Carabao Cup: Tottenham
League 1: Sunderland
League 2 Plymouth
If Ole has the guts to bench experienced but past it guys like Matic, top 4 won't even be a question. Defence is sorted for now, in attack I have faith in Martial, Rashford, and one or two of the younger boys to make the next steps. Midfield needs work of course, and all bets are off if no Pogba.
If we can get top four, that'd be an excellent season in my book.
Our defence is up to scratch at this point, but beyond a Pogba who doesn't want to be here, we have a midfield that's barely good enough for a top half finish. And up to, we're relying on at least one of Rashford or Martial to step up a level to have any chance of being good enough.
Our defence is up to scratch at this point, but beyond a Pogba who doesn't want to be here, we have a midfield that's barely good enough for a top half finish. And up to, we're relying on at least one of Rashford or Martial to step up a level to have any chance of being good enough.
If Martial is our No 9, Lingaard takes the next step, and we sign a top, top class midfielder - top 4. Failing that we'll finish 5th/6th.
In the mix for a top 4 spot and going deep in the Europa League. I'm happy with the players we've brought in, but there are still holes in the squad that need filling. Unfortunately, when you have to pay upto £80m for players, there are only so many holes you can fill in one window.
Our hopes rely on some talented young players, who are more than capable on their day, finally being able to produce the goods consistently over the course of a season.
Our hopes rely on some talented young players, who are more than capable on their day, finally being able to produce the goods consistently over the course of a season.
This is my thought as well. We've seen Pepe go to Arsenal for in excess of £70m. If we want a right sided forward/winger then we are probably going to be paying in excess of this amount as well. I don't see a massive amount of players available for this position and while we technically could fill it with the sale of Lukaku this season, I don't think we will do that. My expectation is that we try very hard to go all-in on Sancho next summer, but obviously it is a big ask to pull off such a deal. You have to think we're capable assuming we look stronger after a full season under Ole and are in the Champion's League. I'd hope that after two years of Ole, we have our RB, CB, CM, and RW positions finally looking powerful and are just a better team than the last few years in general.
Even if we pull off a #10 purchase in the next two days the midfield is terrible and will cost us top 4 unfortunately IMO, I think anywhere from 5th to 8th depending on if Rashford and Martial perform well.
The 3 signings will strengthen the team. But. We still lack sufficient creativity.
Stretch target - 3rd.
Realistic - 4th.
Stretch target - 3rd.
Realistic - 4th.
I think Bissaka and Maguire are excellent signings, our problem is the midfield.
There's only so much our defence can do when you're midfield keeps getting overrun. Take Pogba out of that midfield and Leicester got a better midfield.
Fred, McTominay and Pereira. Does that strike fear into anyone?
If we don't sort out our midfield i sadly expect no higher that 6th
There's only so much our defence can do when you're midfield keeps getting overrun. Take Pogba out of that midfield and Leicester got a better midfield.
Fred, McTominay and Pereira. Does that strike fear into anyone?
If we don't sort out our midfield i sadly expect no higher that 6th