This happens routinely with different good quarterbacks when they go down with injury etc. This isn't something specific to Brady. Don't be silly.
NFL 2020
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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According to you he’s the most overrated player to have ever played. It’s obvious you have a disdain for him, for whatever reason, but the idea he’s “good” at best is laughable. Good QBs might have a few seasons of success, not 10 SB appearances in 19 years.
He is very good, arguably the best but also very fortunate. He essentially spent the entirety of his career under a very competent GM which isn't a given in the NFL even when you are a very talented QB, that situation allowed him to continuously have above average to very good supporting casts. He then picked a team that was pretty good but had a QB that couldn't/wouldn't take care of the ball and caused a lot of misery to his own team.
He's due an OC job after the job he did developing Allen and Cam Newton during his SuperBowl year.
Pete Carroll apparently interested as well....
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I think that’s a fairer assessment. I would say that Gronk & Moss aside, he never had elite receivers at NE (Moss one year, Gronk for a few years but he was injured every other year). He did have a bunch of good/very good players that he elevated (the likes of Branch, Welker, Edelman, Amendola) to perform at a consistently high level and the team was successful as they all bought into the “Patriot Way”.
As a Pats fan, I have an obvious bias towards Brady so he’s currently the best ever IMO (I actually think Mahomes will eventually be considered better if he can stay injury free & win a few more SBs). If someone else views Montana or Elway or Peyton as better then that’s their opinion & fair enough. I’d put them all in the conversation. However, to devalue Brady’s successes to such a level where he’s only a “good QB”, so that it’s implied he shouldn’t even be in the GOAT conversation & anyone could’ve had his success, is something I completely disagree with.
Mad.
Here's a fantastic Manning stat - he's the all-time leader in "one-and-done" losing nine times (9!) in his side's opening playoff game, six of them in front of his home crowd, and twice as the top seed. He lost the first three playoff games he started.
His combined stat line in those nine losses: 202 - 348, 58.05, 2286 yds, 11-6 td-int, 6.425 any/a, 81.18 rtg. Maybe had he performed better and got his side the next round he'd have won more conference title games and played in more SBs.
GOATs don't lose in the opening playoff game more than they win, Manning is 6-9 in his side's opening playoff game.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/post/
His combined stat line in those nine losses: 202 - 348, 58.05, 2286 yds, 11-6 td-int, 6.425 any/a, 81.18 rtg. Maybe had he performed better and got his side the next round he'd have won more conference title games and played in more SBs.
GOATs don't lose in the opening playoff game more than they win, Manning is 6-9 in his side's opening playoff game.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/post/
It's interesting this is never said about golden boys Favre, Manning, Montana.
We cycle this debate every single year. The level of entrenchment and polarisation in this debate says it all. Typically the winning team is always hated. The fact that the hate moved with Brady when he left, and didn’t stay with the Patriots, says it all.
I dont follow any particular team and probably dont have the NFL knowledge that most of you have on here but going into the championship games i didnt mind who got to the SB. There was a part of me that thought Rodgers deserves more than one SB ring. But as Osi pointed out on the NFL show all season, that the packers defence isnt that great.
The Billls getting to the SB would have been a nice story that would have ended in tragedy once again as they would have lost the SB being the weakest team of the four in my opinion.
Tampa have been fascinating as a neutral all season. Brady finally having a proper receiving core and a offense line that protects him in the pocket has made me appreciate him more. I was never a huge fan as hes an old school QB who doesnt move out of the pocket and scrambe like the young pretenders do. But i see his ability more now at Tampa. He is a coach on the field and in training apparently.
Anyway as i cant stand the glazers, i dont want tampa to win. Though it would be funny if Brady won as it would ignite the Bilicheck/Brady debate again.
I think the chiefs will be too strong and Andy Reid too wiley for Bruce Arians. I think it will be a close game but Mahomes and Hill will get them across the line.
Anyway thats my own opinion. Never posted in this thread before.
The Billls getting to the SB would have been a nice story that would have ended in tragedy once again as they would have lost the SB being the weakest team of the four in my opinion.
Tampa have been fascinating as a neutral all season. Brady finally having a proper receiving core and a offense line that protects him in the pocket has made me appreciate him more. I was never a huge fan as hes an old school QB who doesnt move out of the pocket and scrambe like the young pretenders do. But i see his ability more now at Tampa. He is a coach on the field and in training apparently.
Anyway as i cant stand the glazers, i dont want tampa to win. Though it would be funny if Brady won as it would ignite the Bilicheck/Brady debate again.
I think the chiefs will be too strong and Andy Reid too wiley for Bruce Arians. I think it will be a close game but Mahomes and Hill will get them across the line.
Anyway thats my own opinion. Never posted in this thread before.
Tampa Bay was a good football team last year, even with a bad quarterback. They were a very competitive team and about five or six games were one possession losses. But this year their draft picks from the previous year came true, Evans was healthy, and of course they got one of the best QBs ever. Arians is a great head coach and Todd Bowles is a very good coordinator. Tampa's defense has improved immensely and if Winfield Jr is healthy for the SB, probably should be, then it'll make the game obviously much better. They can pressure any QB with just their front four and just as effectively stop the run.
Brady chose Tampa because he knew they had a very good chance at making the playoffs and making a run. It was very apparent and wasn't some blind choice. On the flip side, this was one of the worst Patriots teams in the past decade, even without Brady because of player opt outs from Covid and injuries. They just didn't have a good team yet they managed to get 7 wins in a competitive division paced by the Bills.
As for the Super Bowl, don't really care but Mahomes not having Eric Fisher to protect his blindside is a bit concerning. JPP or Shaq Barrett will always lineup against Fisher's replacement. It's great matchup for sure.
Brady chose Tampa because he knew they had a very good chance at making the playoffs and making a run. It was very apparent and wasn't some blind choice. On the flip side, this was one of the worst Patriots teams in the past decade, even without Brady because of player opt outs from Covid and injuries. They just didn't have a good team yet they managed to get 7 wins in a competitive division paced by the Bills.
As for the Super Bowl, don't really care but Mahomes not having Eric Fisher to protect his blindside is a bit concerning. JPP or Shaq Barrett will always lineup against Fisher's replacement. It's great matchup for sure.
But you agree with it and would apply it to them too, right? In fact that remark is even more obvious when you consider Montana and Young.
If I was to make a point based on that observation is that NFL observers tend to give too much credit to individuals including when it comes to QBs because the ultimate winners generally are in the better context. The regular winners have in common to be among the very best but they also went into very good situations. But you can see what happens when someone as talented doesn't get the same support, Rodgers has been largely impaired by the Packers and could have had way more rings and SB appearances if it wasn't for McCarthy and his GMs giving him subpar defenses for the better part of the last decade and sometimes little skill players on offense.
It's a crude demonstration but none of the Patriots SuperBowl winning teams under Brady were below the 8th position in points conceded and under Bellichick the defense has for the most part been above average and generally top 10. The one Superbowl won by Rodgers was with the 2nd defense in points conceded after that the majority of his defenses have been average to below average often below the 20th place. Same thing with Brees during his prime.
Even if you look at advanced stats you can see that only one Patriots SB team had a below average defense, I think that it's the 2016 one.
And I'm not making an argument against Brady, they don't win without him and he is arguably the best QB ever. I just think that it's fair to give some context and try to make the argument that only one individual is the reason behind a team success.
tampa was 12th in dvoa last year, ahead of the 10-6 texans
I'm looking forward to seeing what the Bucs pass rushers can do against Mahomes.
Honestly in their case, you didn't even need stats to see that they were good and unfortunate to be in a very difficult division. Despite Winston.
Not sure I’d classify Arians as a great head coach @edcunited1878
If the Chiefs establish a run game early, then that opens up the field for Kelce and Hardman...then vertical shots to Hill. I'm sure Andy Reid knows how to account for his team's weaker o-line and trying to get matchups for his playmakers, yet make sure Mahomes is up right and has enough time to let it rip downfield.
Brady has generally had good OLs though. Dante Scarnecchia was NE's OL coach from 2000-2013 and from 2016-2019, and is generally regarded as one of the greats when it comes to being an OL coach.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/ne...ine-coach-dante-scarnecchia-super-bowl-51-nfl
Fantastic job when he stepped up at Indy. Took the Cardinals to the playoffs and made them competitive after Palmer left. Then he's improved the Bucs. Terrific motivator and teacher, commands respect.
While it's all relative, I consider great coaches to be the likes of Tomlin, Payton, Carroll, Harbaugh, Reid, etc. I wouldn't put Arians on that tier. If I was a NFL GM starting a team, I'd rather have Stefanski, McVay, Shanahan over him as well.
Let me put it this way, if the Chargers (I'm a Bolts fan) hired Arians I'd be slightly disappointed.
I’d take Arians over Carroll.
Yah now maybe. But there's no arguing Carroll is/was a great head coach. My brother knows a couple coaches on the Seahawks and one told him that Pete is lucky he's got his sons on the staff. The insinuation being at this point in his career, he's not going to kill himself and be logging in many extra hours. Funny thing is, his oldest Brennan just left this offseason to become U of A's offensive coordinator.
Aaron predictably throwing water on the comments from Sunday. Florio says he wants to talk about his contract.
I was a Chargers fan, so the fact is it doesn't matter who is their head coach, as long as the Spanos family owns the team and has Spanos children in important positions within the front office...the Chargers will do jack shit and just disappoint and look like donkeys.
Those coaches you mentioned are great coaches as well. One thing I'd point out is that Tomlin, Harbaugh, and Reid are supported by great NFL franchises. Payton is a top offensive mind as is Reid. Arians has his second competent QB who is a GOAT and he's in the SB.
The entire segment was great as usual. Fair play to him for coming on again after that loss & discussing some of the issues from the game.
Aaron is the no bullshit, no drama guy and it's refreshing. Telling it like it really is and it's up to the media to spin it and feed it into the 24/7 cycle.
They drafted Love and they have Jones who is unrestricted and then after next season is Davante. The championship window is still open for Rodgers and the Packers, especially if they re-sign Jones but they have to structure his contract and potentially re-structure Aaron's contract if they plan to sign Adams long term.
WAS!Two chargers fans in the same location?
Yikes..
Headline: SEAHAWKS’ CHAD WHEELER ARRESTED ON SUSPICION OF ASSAULTING GF FOR NOT BOWING TO HIM, ‘DISLOCATED ARM & BLEEDING’
https://www.totalprosports.com/2021...sf_pkJjYX5tP-RyMcSCVqYHymWi9v1_LaBBtPCiyMei_Y
Headline: SEAHAWKS’ CHAD WHEELER ARRESTED ON SUSPICION OF ASSAULTING GF FOR NOT BOWING TO HIM, ‘DISLOCATED ARM & BLEEDING’
https://www.totalprosports.com/2021...sf_pkJjYX5tP-RyMcSCVqYHymWi9v1_LaBBtPCiyMei_Y
What a fecking nutjob. Seems like he's got a history of some mental instability.
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Losing that many staff is going to disrupt any team.
Happening to an extent with the Niner’s too. I wish someone would extend it to the rest of the NFC West and take Kingsbury.
It's not Adam Gase, thank feck. Actually seems like a pretty damn good hire, assuming he's given full autonomy to build his own offence I'm very happy about this. Rams passing game always looks as though it would be great if it wasn't for Goff being Goff.
Can see why it would annoy you though, that's a lot of coaches to lose. Does make it ever better in my view
There should probably be a rule limiting the number of staff hired from one team. It's a bit unfair.
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So many differing opinions on Justin Fields, Zach Wilson and Trey Lance online and in the media.
One of them is gonna be end up as the Trubisky to someone's Watson, you just know it. I hope it's the Jets that pick the wrong one.
One of them is gonna be end up as the Trubisky to someone's Watson, you just know it. I hope it's the Jets that pick the wrong one.
He just keeps making leading statements. "Nobody knows the future" isn't something he needs to say after a loss, if he just meant it at literal face value.
I’ve been reading through the convos between the amateur scouts on reddit that have “seen every throw” and I feel like I knew less than when I started.
He's more than that, but I understand what you're saying. He's an NFL QB and is very media trained so he's not going to say something to a national broadcaster or the national media that overly 'revealing' especially just after a playoff loss. But the writing has been on the wall with Love being drafted and two very important pieces of the GB offense coming to free agency in consecutive years. You can have a serviceable QB or at least build a playbook around a QB, but you can't build around a QB without playmakers like Jones and Adams.
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