They really are. I’m all for Scottish independence, and I’d love it if North West England could be an extension of Scotland if the achieve independence, but the SNP constituencies make it very hard to for a Labour majority in the commons. And there are plenty of English people who buy the ‘deal with the SNP’ propaganda touted out during election season by the right wing press; if they weren’t standing in GE seats, the election dynamics would be so much different
Nicola Sturgeon and Scottish Independence
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Labour are to blame for the lack of votes going their way. Spineless leadership towing the Westminster line up here despite that clearly not working for their English counterparts. It’s strange you think that we should (or would if the SNP didn’t exist) vote for that. The SNPs rise was born from us not being represented and let down by Labour. There’s no trust left there.
I do think that northern parts of England feel just as alienated from it all as we do and would gladly see those areas fight for more power too.
If every single SNP seat had gone Labour's way in 2019, the Tories would still have won. If every single SNP seat had done the same in 2017, the Tories would still have been 1st place and had their deal with the DUP. In 2015, the Tories would have again won an outright majority. Wouldn 't have made a difference again in 2010.
If some English people are genuinely so stupid to fall for that propaganda, that isn't the SNP's fault, especially after 13 years of this appalling party's shite.
Was true once upon a time. Don't think it's true anymore.
Oh absolutely, yeah, I can totally understand that. And I imagine I would probably vote SNP myself were I to live in Scotland, and clearly Labour have a lot to do to win that trust back. I still do think if those SNP constituencies went red it would bode better for all our sakes in the next GE than if they were to remain with the SNP.
It’s just a depressing shit show all round unfortunately
I think the anxiety created by the right wing press around Ed Miliband doing a deal with the SNP in the 2015 election definitely played into the results of that GE. While perhaps Labour might not have won a majority in that election, I think no SNP or no media line regarding a deal would definitely have meant there would have been another hung parliament; the Conservative majority was a surprise to absolutely everyone and the SNP/Labour Coalition line definitely caused that.
The Scottish vote has changed the outcome only four times since the end of the Second World War. FOUR!
- In 1964, the Conservatives would have been the largest party but would not have had a majority. Including Scotland, Labour won a House of Commons majority.
- In February 1974, the Conservatives would have been the largest party but would not have had a majority. Including Scotland, Labour was the largest party but did not have a majority.
- In October 1974, Labour would have been the largest party but would not have had a majority. Including Scotland, Labour won a House of Commons majority.
- In 2010, the Conservatives would have won an outright majority. Including Scotland the Conservatives were the largest party but without an overall majority; they formed a government in a coalition with the Liberal Democrats.
A tool to divide us up and create our own little bullshit country. No thanks. Enough with the nationalist, racist bollocks.
That's hilarious. The snp and their supporters are racist, meanwhile in reality they are the most progressive, welcoming, party in the uk. And the people who support them are like so. If you want to call standing up to racists, sexist and homophobes as "divide us", I'll happily wear that hat.
That's getting a bit too deluded for my blood.
20% of the SNP members on the books in 2019 voted for Yousaf. But fractionally under 20% voted for a conservative Christian. About 17% didnt vote. The other 43% had cancelled their memberships, unclear how many of them were because of policy decisions (gender reform etc) but definitely some.
Racists are everywhere. There seems to be no getting away from them. But are we really now going to suggest that the party and its supporters knowing full well that staying in the union would bring more immigration, are racists for voting to stay in the union?
Progressive my arse. Incompetent, dishonest and possessing a complete inability to take any responsibility. "It's all London's fault".
The rest of us in Scotland manage to not be racist or homophobic without all the divisive flag waving.
Funny, having grown up here I know that to not be true at all. The blue and white tracksuit wearing cnuts aren't at all shy of shouting "black cnut" or "paki" when the mood takes them. In fact, Racism in Scotland is so bad that every small shop in the land was called a "paki shop" like that was its actual name. Mark Walters getting bananas thrown at him. Sectarian violence being force fed to kids by dim witted tattooed feckwits with nothing better to do on a work day but down a super tenants chased by a bottle of Scotlands finest buckfast.
Take these fine gents as an example of anti SNP/independence movement. Rangers fans, never stop being cnuts.
Meanwhile, anyone Ive ever spoken to who was pro indy/snp had nothing like this kind of thought process going on. They want to be part of the EU. They want to be welcoming to others. They want to see LGBT rights and freedoms protected. But that doesn't fit your narrative does it? Got to move the talking points away from the actual issues and make it about something else. The classic tactic of the man with no real argument. Next you'll be calling us granny shaggers...
Funnily enough, having grown up here, I know what you say to just be an opinion (and the opinion of many independence supporters - the opinion that everyone else in Scotland is small minded/racist/half-wit rangers supporters). There are plenty of half-wits and racists supporting independence for the same reason brexit happened. Don't pretend.
I don't have a narrative. I have nearly 2 decades of the SNP being objectively shit. I haven't read or seen anything which makes me think Scotland has any idea of how it would run itself as a country. The idea of independence is a reflection of modern day thinking - surround yourself with like-minded people, and reject different opinions. "I don't agree with the current mindset of some people in England - let's start a new country". I think it's really sad.
Oooft catching strays jere
Two things, does the current UK government know how to run a country? And you wouldn’t be starting a new country, you’re already a country
We're no more a country than the north east of England is. Just because the UK government is shit doesn't mean you start a new country! You fix it. It's ours.
I can completely understand the latter sentiment, but the former I just don’t get, although I don’t need to so fair enough
Well I just find the idea of Scottish culture actually being a thing is silly. As silly as Newcastle declaring independence because they're currently a bit different to folk in London.
Insulting another member
Thanks for establishing you are a moron.
Maybe I should join the SNP
But Scottish culture is a thing. Haggis, Highland bagpipes, Robert Burns and Groundskeeper Willie, losing to Wales in rugby and football. Shelving the independence thing for a moment, but don’t you think England has its own culture, Wales? Like you may not think this is grounds for independence as is your right, but surely you have to admit these places have their own distinct culture?
I have a better view of the SNP than you do but that was pretty good
Wasn't pretending. I know fine well that not everyone who supports a cause is one thing. But when you spout a lot of shit about the SNP and their supporters being racists and homophobes despite evidence to the contrary, youre gonna get push back. And yes, THAT is your narrative.
You have nearly 2 decades of Scotland being better than it was. I would rather you just said thank you and went about your day. There is a reason that the SNP has enjoyed as much success as it has, and isnt due to how great they are. It's due to how shit labour and tories are. The SNP puts Scotland first, the others treat Scotland as a thing they can't scrape off their shoe. Even Johann Lamont said that the Westminster part was run by dinosaurs who treat Scottish Labour as some kind of branch office. They dont care about us. They only care about Westminster.
Whats really sad is people like you talking shit about things you clearly dont understand. The people of Scotland who support independence, for the most part, dont hate the English. They are just sick and tired or being second class and not having a voice in who gets elected in Westminster. For decades Westminster has been run into the ground by corruption, and the message is always the same "let's work together to break this bullshit.". Except that doesn't work, never has. Theres also the implication that Scotland and England can't continue to work together, something that pro indy people and the SNP have floated repeatedly and its been rejected and even scoffed at by red and blue tories time after time. Even the current Labour leader with all the charisma of drying paint wont work with the people of Scotland to better the UK. So how the feck is it us being racist? The message is clear, "Know your fecking place, jocks!". Well, feck that. They dont want to work with us, fine. We will feck off and continue our course of inclusion, tolerance and internationalism without the shackles tying us to the dinosaurs and the pantomime villains of Westminster. Everyone is welcome in Scotland. Black, brown, gay, straight, whatever. Fleeing a warzone? Come on, find a place by the fire. Fleeing a country that wants to kill you for being LGBT? Come on in, find a place by the fire. Meanwhile, in good ol Blighty, these same people are being shipped off to butt feck nowhere at the expense of taxpayers to the tune of millions. But we are the racists and homophobes???? Mate...
For the long and short of it indecencies is about just one thing. Holding our elected officials to account. We sat up here and have watched helplessly at one shit show after another down south. We can't do anything about the BoJos of Westminster. We just have to suffer them until England has had enough of the cnuts. Thats not good enough, not IMO. When the question of a luxury caravan was asked about the SNP, rightfully, an investigation was launched. When the question of billions of pounds going to companies with close ties to the government is asked, all of sudden it's a witch hunt. Again and again and again, they take from the poor and give to the already mega rich. The public account committee put out a report detailing BILLIONS lost in corruption and waste under the tory government. Lucky for them, none of it was spend on caravans...
I want to see cnuts like BoJo held to account for their actions. Not years later after the fact with a slap on the wrist. While it's happening. While they are being caught red fecking handed with cookie crumbs everywhere and broken fecking jar laying at their feet. I can't get this being part of the union. So the answer is clear, we break it up and try again as EQUEL partners. Two countries working together, rather than one country dictating to another. Im a Scot that supports an English club. I can hardly be accused of hating the English. And the fact we have been in the toilet for the past decades mean I can't be accused of glory hunting either. Independence isnt about hate. It's about self determination. It's about moving forward and being free to succeed or fail on our own terms. No more blaming the English for continuing to vote for cnuts because rags like The Sun said so.
The UK doesn't work anymore, if it ever did. It's time for a change. A clean break. Some time apart will be good for us, and then we can work together for the betterment of the children. Just like any good divorce. We dont want to be the battered wife anymore. We dont want to be told to be quiet because we are embarrassing Westminster. Shouted down, dismissed, called names, made fun of. These people are supposed to represent all of us. And they dont. So feck um. It's time to take our old ass country(not new) out of the union and start a fresh chapter. "How Scotland got its grove back, and learned to love the unicorn.".
Better at what?
Also, go do some door to door canvassing in the heartlands of the independence movement, i.e. housing estates around Glasgow and Dundee, and see if they have the same views on immigration and EDI as you do.
Hobbers do you think everyone on a council estate is a raging racist?
Nothing to do with racism. It's about what the motivations are for independence. Support for independence is concentrated most in the most impoverished parts of the country. Not because these places care particularly about immigration and LGBT rights, but because these are the parts that have been most spectacularly failed by consecutive Holyrood and Westminster governments.
It's no mistake or accident that Kate Forbes got half the SNP members vote.
Everything. Healthcare staffing, education costs and access, child benefits, access to free period products, LGBT support, apprenticeships, investment in rail and bringing it back under public ownership, ended right to buy, productivity has increased 10% compared to the UKs 3% since 2007, etc etc etc. Life isnt perfect, but at least we can say that for the most part we feel heard. Before that, not so much. We might as well have been on the moon for all the fecks Westminster gave about us.
Cool, let me just step outside my fecking door and talk to my neighbours. Just because some loud mouthed cnuts spout racist shit, doesn't mean they speak for the whole. Anymore than the "fans" calling Rashford a n***** on social media after missing a pen represent England fans.
Waiting times in A&E. Waiting times to see a GP (now usually measured in months). Waiting times for elective surgery. Waiting times for mental health treatment. Wards dangerously understaffed. GP surgeries understaffed and closing. Social care system on life support....
Attainment gap growing not shrinking. Teachers leaving in droves. One in four children still in poverty. Rising deprivation. Social mobility decreasing. Drug deaths sky rocketing. Opioid crisis at its worst ever.....
Yeah, it's all the SNPs fault. Not at all anything to do with a massive pandemic that just fecked the world over. Not anything to do with the massive drop in Budget from Westminster. Nope, it's all SNP bad. However, before those things it was better. It was moving forward. Where as in England, Westminster is pushing to get private American style healthcare pushed through.
You can piss over anything without the proper context. As has been said, Scotland is not perfect. But we are trying to move towards making things better and progress has been made. But I guess it's all or nothing with you, huh? It's either perfect now or it's a waste of time and a stick to beat them with.
Better doenst mean perfect. It means better than it was. No more, no less. But feck it, better to shit over everything than see the value in what's been achieved so far.
Scotland is near the top of the list of places to live when climate change kicks in. A good reason for the English to keep Scotland in the union so they have residence rights up there.
Do you not know any nurses doctors or teachers?
The SNP have been failing the country long before covid. In areas they have full control over.
Once again, it's not perfect, so it's shit. Bin it all. You're totally right, mate. What was I thinking?
Just be thankful support for the daft nationalist nonsense is fast dwindling.