Nicola Sturgeon and Scottish Independence

goalscholes

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Why? Provided the electoral system was vaguely proportional it would be the desire of the population. That's the whole point of democracy.
Democracy needs stability to work. It isn't undemocratic to have general election every 5 years, rather than every month, or every week, or every day. And general elections very rarely lead to genuinely difficult-to-reverse constitutional changes, so the time between referenda should be much greater.

People change their minds all the time based on unrelated political events, and you need a long period of time to assess impact and introduce policy. One day there might be a majority for independence. Even one decade. Then, like most populist ideas with little sound political or economic basis, it could, and will likely, fade.

I imagine support for Brexit is dwindling every year. Who knows what will happen in 5 years. Or 10. We could be in a full customs union, with the right to live, travel and work in EU countries, following a decade of centre left government and greater devolution to local areas around the whole UK. Or something could crash the Euro, gas prices could lead to more extreme populists winning elections, and even remainers might be glad we steered clear.

At the worst time for us since WWII, in the middle of a global oil/gas crisis, war in Europe and following a pandemic, focussing efforts on a vote now/ greater instability seems ludicrous. Add that we had a referendum in the last decade, the SNP don't get 50% of the votes in Scotland and there has been no consistent and clear majority opinion for Scoxit, makes the whole thing a farce.

If there is a consistent super majority for it though over a significant period, it will happen, judge ruling or not.
 

Honest John

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She's been bouyed in her views by disaffected Labour voters who, following the 2014 referendum, thought they could safely make a point.

The next GE should sort that out I reckon.
 

jojojo

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I'm kind of stunned. Compared to other major UK politicians she always seemed like someone whose heart was in the right place, even if I didn't buy into all her policies.

I don't know if she just got tired of fighting, because she has seemed like a lone voice on some big issues for a while now, or if something else is going on. No idea what impact this will have on the SNP or politics generally either. I'll be watching the news (and this thread) with interest and some trepidation.
 

Darkhorsez

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A source close to Ms Sturgeon - the longest-serving first minister - told the BBC that she had "had enough".
 

goalscholes

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The press have been clear to say ‘hastily arranged press conference’.

Which really makes it feel that her that hand has been forced by something.
 

hobbers

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She gave an interview 3 weeks ago where she said there was plenty left in the tank.

So obviously something has forced her out, either internal SNP fighting or something that will publicly come out and damage her.
 

Red Star One

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Few weeks back she was still claiming to have “plenty in the tank”. I’ve got a few friends from Scotland that respect SNP and Sturgeon, so I’m quite sad for her, from my limited knowledge she was a good leader.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Probably getting out ahead of something
Not just that but might also be this.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...y-fiasco-firm-costs-taxpayer-nearly-500m-far/

There's also national bargaining going on for support staff in colleges, a process that's already taken over three years of assessment. College lecturers, teachers across all schools and unis have standardised pay but not college support staff. Police are national, NHS is national, yet this particular group are not? The process has already cost millions and the government has failed to provide the additional funding needed to harmonize pay, even though they started the entire process in the first place and said they had the money. So colleges will now make local decisions (which defeats the entire purpose of national standards). It's been a total mess.
 

Darkhorsez

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Not just that but might also be this.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...y-fiasco-firm-costs-taxpayer-nearly-500m-far/

There's also national bargaining going on for support staff in colleges, a process that's already taken over three years of assessment. College lecturers, teachers across all schools and unis have standardised pay but not college support staff. Police are national, NHS is national, yet this particular group are not? The process has already cost millions and the government has failed to provide the additional funding needed to harmonize pay, even though they started the entire process in the first place and said they had the money. So colleges will now make local decisions (which defeats the entire purpose of national standards). It's been a total mess.
That is just such a shocking read. Unbelievable!
 

Jeffthered

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Wow. Plenty must be happening behind the scenes for her to do that, and we await the murky details.

In my opinion, she's been the best politician across all parties in the UK, by some distance, and for some time. Always felt that she should have been leader of the Labour party, if she could have managed her personal mission re Independance. She could be PM, and would embrace the role and world stage. This is a surprise, and I feel a bit of a shame, because we don't have many really, top quality politicians to choose from.

The tories will be happy.
 

Camilo

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Wow. Plenty must be happening behind the scenes for her to do that, and we await the murky details.

In my opinion, she's been the best politician across all parties in the UK, by some distance, and for some time. Always felt that she should have been leader of the Labour party, if she could have managed her personal mission re Independance. She could be PM, and would embrace the role and world stage. This is a surprise, and I feel a bit of a shame, because we don't have many really, top quality politicians to choose from.

The tories will be happy.
It's easy to say the "right" thing when you have no power - there's always someone else to blame with the SNP. The things she has had influence over have been a shambles. It should really be a piss-easy job - the SNP have got strong support and no real responsibility.

And the one thing that stands in the way of their independence dream is......that the Scottish don't want independence. So how do you go about winning those people over? The SNP went with "blame Westminster" instead of trying "be competent". Same as every other government and politician.

Good riddance I say.
 

balaks

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Wow. Plenty must be happening behind the scenes for her to do that, and we await the murky details.

In my opinion, she's been the best politician across all parties in the UK, by some distance, and for some time. Always felt that she should have been leader of the Labour party, if she could have managed her personal mission re Independance. She could be PM, and would embrace the role and world stage. This is a surprise, and I feel a bit of a shame, because we don't have many really, top quality politicians to choose from.

The tories will be happy.
Not necessarily - it's a difficult job and perhaps she has just decided that she doesn't want to do it anymore.
 

Jeffthered

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It's easy to say the "right" thing when you have no power - there's always someone else to blame with the SNP. The things she has had influence over have been a shambles. It should really be a piss-easy job - the SNP have got strong support and no real responsibility.

And the one thing that stands in the way of their independence dream is......that the Scottish don't want independence. So how do you go about winning those people over? The SNP went with "blame Westminster" instead of trying "be competent". Same as every other government and politician.

Good riddance I say.
In many ways I agree, I think her political talents were wasted on her single-issue-idealogy, which has in fact, seemed to prevent a decent debate on the topic, rather than encourage.

But Nicola had an energy that was lacking from Scottish Politics, that's my view. Alex Salmond et al, were just happy to make a little noise, pass dismissive comments about Westminster, rather than energising what is a v v astute political demograpghy in Scotland.

Be interesting what happens next, because both Labour and the Tories are nowhere to be seen.
 

SilentWitness

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It's easy to say the "right" thing when you have no power - there's always someone else to blame with the SNP. The things she has had influence over have been a shambles. It should really be a piss-easy job - the SNP have got strong support and no real responsibility.

And the one thing that stands in the way of their independence dream is......that the Scottish don't want independence. So how do you go about winning those people over? The SNP went with "blame Westminster" instead of trying "be competent". Same as every other government and politician.

Good riddance I say.
Wouldn't say that. Since 2020 it's been fairly up and down in terms of opinion polls.
 

hobbers

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She was at her best during Covid when she couldnt bang the independence drum every 4 seconds.

Could have been a good leader if she had put a fraction of that indy energy into sorting the NHS and social care, or education, or social mobility, or tackling drug deaths.
 

Kinsella

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She was at her best during Covid when she couldnt bang the independence drum every 4 seconds.

Could have been a good leader if she had put a fraction of that indy energy into sorting the NHS and social care, or education, or social mobility, or tackling drug deaths.
Can those things be properly ‘sorted’ whilst part of the UK though? That’s the question.
 

Mr Pigeon

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They're marsh mallows.

I quite like Tunnock's caramel wafers though, I pack one in my rucksack on warm days when a kit kat would just melt.
They're tea cakes. It says so on the packet. National phrases override whatever regional pap you have, it's written into that Magma Carter thing.
 

whitbyviking

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That is extremely surprising news, probably the most surprising political news since Brexit. I really didn't see her quitting.

I'm not particularly a fan of hers or the SNP, and even though I would generally be in favour of independence (for the entire North), I don't think the SNP would have been my choice to lead Scotland into independence. I know a lot of friends north of the border think the same, and are lending them the vote in the hope that independence is won before getting rid of the SNP for somebody who can fix the country (easier said than done as they are too well ingrained into the landscape).
 

Ramshock

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That is extremely surprising news, probably the most surprising political news since Brexit. I really didn't see her quitting.

I'm not particularly a fan of hers or the SNP, and even though I would generally be in favour of independence (for the entire North), I don't think the SNP would have been my choice to lead Scotland into independence. I know a lot of friends north of the border think the same, and are lending them the vote in the hope that independence is won before getting rid of the SNP for somebody who can fix the country (easier said than done as they are too well ingrained into the landscape).
What exactly is wrong with the SNP?
 

goalscholes

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What exactly is wrong with the SNP?
They want to put ideology ahead of economic sense, like the Brexiteers.

Surely everyone’s had enough of the ‘ignore experts and just do it because the grass is always greener’ populism/ nationalism?
 

Ramshock

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They want to put ideology ahead of economic sense, like the Brexiteers.

Surely everyone’s had enough of the ‘ignore experts and just do it because the grass is always greener’ populism/ nationalism?
Thats just horseshit from start to finish. In what way would an independent Scotland be in any worse shape than Brexitland?