Nicola Sturgeon and Scottish Independence

[whitbyviking]

What exactly is wrong with the SNP?

They have failed at all the major elements of being a leading political party; economy and jobs, their health services (the drug deaths is a national disgrace for example), what they’ve done to the Scottish educational service (which used to be World leading, since the enlightenment times and is now failing on everything), their constant scandals brushed under the carpet, politicians who are utterly clueless and to be frank an embarrassment (the massive hypocrite Blackford, for example). The hate speech bill is eyewateringly bad, but they are/have bullying it through. They are generally bigoted towards England and have a genuine hatred of the English in many cases, and not even just the Tories. I could go on. It doesn’t take much scratching of the surface to

If they were an English party they’d be viewed like UKIP.

I’m not saying all SNP are like this, they aren’t, I know a few. But the core of the party is rotten and instead of spending the time since the referendum getting their house in order and using the advantages they do have to build a Scotland that leaves no doubt for a yes vote whenever the next referendum is they have spent the intervening years, whining , cutting out and bullying opposition and agitating for another vote. They lack any ideas, or plan, on how to build a positive future and instead snipe from the sidelines and appeal to base nature in the hope throwing enough sh@t eventually sticks and they get a yes vote. I genuinely fear for Scotland if they get independence, not because the Scottish people can’t succeed on their own, they would, but because an unfettered SNP would be a disaster.

 

[whitbyviking]

Thats just horseshit from start to finish. In what way would an independent Scotland be in any worse shape than Brexitland?

“Brexitland” there ends the debate.

 

[Ramshock]

“Brexitland” there ends the debate.

no it doesnt, why the feck would anyone want to be a part of that dumpster fire?

 

[whitbyviking]

no it doesnt, why the feck would anyone want to be a part of that dumpster fire?

Have you done any research on what a Scottish exit from the UK means in real terms while making up those hilarious names for the UK?

 

[Ramshock]

Have you done any research on what a Scottish exit from the UK means in real terms while making up those hilarious names for the UK?

Yes I have, give me your glowing economic figures and projections that would entice Scotland to stay hitched to Nigeltopia

 

[whitbyviking]

Yes I have, give me your glowing economic figures and projections that would entice Scotland to stay hitched to Nigeltopia

You can respond to my post above first on what the problems are with the SNP. Then maybe because you are so assertive that scoxit can’t be worse than brexit you could explain why?

I think when one of the main economic advisors to the SNP advises that scoxit would be “10x brexit” you know there are going to be problems. The other issue was the deeply suspect Scottish economic proposal was calculated using an astronomical oil price as the main pillar, which leaves a rather large hole now the SNP are no longer interested in the hydrocarbon industry.

Make no mistake, brexit is on life support, Scoxit will be worse, and I do believe they will get independence, I just hope it’s not under the SNP as they are now and that they have a proper go at making a success of it.

 

[Ramshock]

You can respond to my post above first on what the problems are with the SNP. Then maybe because you are so assertive that scoxit can’t be worse than brexit you could explain why?

I think when one of the main economic advisors to the SNP advises that scoxit would be “10x brexit” you know there are going to be problems. The other issue was the deeply suspect Scottish economic proposal was calculated using an astronomical oil price as the main pillar, which leaves a rather large hole now the SNP are no longer interested in the hydrocarbon industry.

Make no mistake, brexit is on life support, Scoxit will be worse, and I do believe they will get independence, I just hope it’s not under the SNP as they are now and that they have a proper go at making a success of it.

Wheres these figures that would entice a Scottish person to want to stay with Gammonaptra?

 

[whitbyviking]

Wheres these figures that would entice a Scottish person to want to stay with Gammonaptra?

 

[Ramshock]

Figured as much lad. Stick to ordering fish and chips and breeding whippets.

 

[Pexbo]

Just watching the BBC report on her and it’s a hatchet job. A massive imbalance of public interviewed who were critical of her without question. The ones that did say something positive were interrogated on why they feel like that.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

So is killing the Scotch. Although that might be the national anthem. Or both.

List of things that kill Jocks.

1) Jocks
2) Heart Attacks
3) Heroin
4) Jocks
5) Vegetables
6) Jocks
7) 11

 

[TheReligion]

Thats just horseshit from start to finish. In what way would an independent Scotland be in any worse shape than Brexitland?

no it doesnt, why the feck would anyone want to be a part of that dumpster fire?

Yes I have, give me your glowing economic figures and projections that would entice Scotland to stay hitched to Nigeltopia

Wheres these figures that would entice a Scottish person to want to stay with Gammonaptra?

Figured as much lad. Stick to ordering fish and chips and breeding whippets.

Stop being such a weirdo

 

[Ramshock]

Stop being such a weirdo

To the poster who rounded up all my posts like a weirdo. No!

 

[TheReligion]

To the poster who rounded up all my posts like a weirdo. No!

Oddball

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Just watching the BBC report on her and it’s a hatchet job. A massive imbalance of public interviewed who were critical of her without question. The ones that did say something positive were interrogated on why they feel like that.

Hardly surprising. The BBC is nothing but a Tory mouthpiece these days.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Thats just horseshit from start to finish. In what way would an independent Scotland be in any worse shape than Brexitland?

We'd be fecked if we're being honest. Granted, we're fecked because our oil has been wasted by successive Westminster governments propping up the Frankenstein that is London "Capital of Britain for Everything, whether it makes sense or not" and stuffing their pals' pockets with as much cash possible. But the SNP haven't sent the world alight with their prowess; they've just been less shit than all of the alternatives.

Rejoining the EU is a massive selling point though, that's a given. But administratively, national and local, we need a major upheaval. Untethering ourselves from the shitshow down South is a good selling point, but when the outlook for an Independent Scotland is built on a party focusing on national identity rather than actually, and reasonably, showing how they would make things better it gives me pause for thought.

 

[Ramshock]

Oddball

thanks mate

 

[Fluctuation0161]

It's easy to say the "right" thing when you have no power - there's always someone else to blame with the SNP. The things she has had influence over have been a shambles. It should really be a piss-easy job - the SNP have got strong support and no real responsibility.

And the one thing that stands in the way of their independence dream is......that the Scottish don't want independence. So how do you go about winning those people over? The SNP went with "blame Westminster" instead of trying "be competent". Same as every other government and politician.

Good riddance I say.

Why do you assume the Scottish don't want independence?

If you are referring to the last independence vote, a he'll of alot has changed since then - BREXIT, successive Tory governments with questionable ethics and policies, Westminster not enabling Holyrood to have the power it was promised etc. If I was Scottish I think I'd want independence !

 

[RoyH1]

So, how is the procedure to replace Sturgeon? Does the SNP just choose a new leader and that person is automatically it?

 

[horsechoker]

So, how is the procedure to replace Sturgeon? Does the SNP just choose a new leader and that person is automatically it?

Whoever shall pull the deep fried mars bar from the fryer is crowned leader

 

[altodevil]

We'd be fecked if we're being honest. Granted, we're fecked because our oil has been wasted by successive Westminster governments propping up the Frankenstein that is London "Capital of Britain for Everything, whether it makes sense or not" and stuffing their pals' pockets with as much cash possible. But the SNP haven't sent the world alight with their prowess; they've just been less shit than all of the alternatives.

Rejoining the EU is a massive selling point though, that's a given. But administratively, national and local, we need a major upheaval. Untethering ourselves from the shitshow down South is a good selling point, but when the outlook for an Independent Scotland is built on a party focusing on national identity rather than actually, and reasonably, showing how they would make things better it gives me pause for thought.

Yes pretty much this. Escaping the vitriol of Westminster is one of the few tangible benefits. It's a big one though.

Irrespective of politics or policies I've always rated Sturgeon as a person of good integrity and heart. She will be sorely missed as leader of this country.

 

[Camilo]

Why do you assume the Scottish don't want independence?

If you are referring to the last independence vote, a he'll of alot has changed since then - BREXIT, successive Tory governments with questionable ethics and policies, Westminster not enabling Holyrood to have the power it was promised etc. If I was Scottish I think I'd want independence !

You'd want to compromise your financial stability? Your future security? For what? Politics in Scotland will diverge just like the rest of the world once independence is taken off the table.

And then what? Separate Scotland into the Highlands and Central belt because their politics differ?

It's daft. It's divisive and nasty. And if you actually judge the SNP like your would an actual political party, they've been utterly useless for years and years. If it wasn't for independence they wouldn't exist, because nobody would vote for such a bunch of incompetents.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

You'd want to compromise your financial stability? Your future security? For what? Politics in Scotland will diverge just like the rest of the world once independence is taken off the table.

And then what? Separate Scotland into the Highlands and Central belt because their politics differ?

It's daft. It's divisive and nasty. And if you actually judge the SNP like your would an actual political party, they've been utterly useless for years and years. If it wasn't for independence they wouldn't exist, because nobody would vote for such a bunch of incompetents.

If you try to answer a question with 5 more questions it really shouldn't qualify as a answer.

Scotland has scope for financial security through natural resources and economic growth, also to rejoin the EU once independent and to gain the economic benefit of that.

The UK is currently the worst performing economy in the OECD because of our incompetent government and ideological fools. And that's before you even get into the Brexit economic impacts.

Of course politics in Scotland would evolve after independence. But ultimately Scotland is more left leaning than most of the idiotic voting patterns in England, and would ultimately go for a social democratic / socialist government. Which would be in line with most successful governments in Europe. It's only, again, the English based media which frames any kind of progressive politics as fecking communism.

 

[Camilo]

If you try to answer a question with 5 more questions it really shouldn't qualify as a answer.

Scotland has scope for financial security through natural resources and economic growth, also to rejoin the EU once independent and to gain the economic benefit of that.

The UK is currently the worst performing economy in the OECD because of our incompetent government and ideological fools. And that's before you even get into the Brexit economic impacts.

Of course politics in Scotland would evolve after independence. But ultimately Scotland is more left leaning than most of the idiotic voting patterns in England, and would ultimately go for a social democratic / socialist government. Which would be in line with most successful governments in Europe. It's only, again, the English based media which frames any kind of progressive politics as fecking communism.

I disagree with a lot of what you say. I don't think Scotland is particularly left leaning - I think the whole independence thing has skewed the image of the country. An awful lot of people are "independence leaning" - that's all they want. Tories bastards this, English that. I know my evidence is only anecdotal, but it's 10+ years of evidence now, talking with hundreds of people... I'm yet to really hear of a good reason for independence, other than negative ones. The positive ones are things like "we can rejoin the EU", and that's fine and everything, but that's not going to help me pay the bills.

Scotland has scope for financial security through economic growth?! Seriously, what do we actually have? We don't make anything, we don't do anything, and our education system is shit... But despite that I believe Scotland could be successful in it's own way, but there's nothing - absolutely nothing - stopping us from realising that success right now. Instead the government continues to pass the buck and blame London.

A competent Scottish government would prove time and time again, through their endless great successes, that independence could be a great thing . Instead we all pretend it's being hamstrung by the Tories, and that our endless failings as a nation aren't our own fault.

 

[Maticmaker]

The problem for Scotland is that to become a fully independent country it needs;
a) More people; its greatest resource is its people, but too many have left (via the 'low road') and whilst in smaller numbers, they do still continue to leave, taking their skills and energy with them.
b) About 3-5 decades to fully harness and then develop its natural resources, to the extent needed to support true independence;
c) Also to have to put the country in hock to the money markets in order to raise the billions needed to finance this grand scheme, and without the benefit of ever decreasing North Sea oil income, this would be a massive task to shoulder.
However for many in Scotland this may be possible/desirable but it is the equivalent to Mao's ..." journey of a thousand miles beginning with the first step"... Those taking the final steps (heading towards the 22nd Century) will reap some benefit and of course Scotland will be fully independent; however those currently (over the age of 30) living in Scotland will be those 'taking the first step' and the ones who will be paying the piper and carrying the largest burden well into their old age and with out the safety net, either of Westminster or Brussels.

Each generation has to live in its 'own moment' and make its own decisions, we only go around once!

 

[MoskvaRed]

After the Brexit shambles, I’d be surprised if voters of one of the constituent nations of the UK voted to tear up long-standing arrangements without first having a thoroughly detailed and costed road map as to what comes next. While I get the appeal of being an independent country after 300 years and potentially joining the EU, I’ve yet to hear convincing answers on what currency Scotland would use or how it would deal with the economic consequences of a hard border with England. I feel sorry for them but I also feel sorry for all the non-Tory, pro-EU English like myself. It’s a mess and unfortunately I don’t see Labour coming up with a transformational vision for a genuinely federal UK (involving regional devolution in England as well) built around a fairer voting system (and not least a fairer economic and social model).

 

[altodevil]

Best to wait another 5 or so years and see if Hydrogen takes off. We are seeing massive demand from Germany. Biggest stumbling block to this is the UK investment into ScotWind. Otherwise could have been a real goer.

 

[Bwuk]

Find it utterly staggering that Humza Yousaf is likely going to become the next first minister, after failing at every role he's had in government.

I've also met and worked with him. Pr*ck of a man.

 

[hobbers]

Find it utterly staggering that Humza Yousaf is likely going to become the next first minister, after failing at every role he's had in government.

I've also met and worked with him. Pr*ck of a man.

He is without doubt the Matt Hancock of the SNP.

 

[altodevil]

Find it utterly staggering that Humza Yousaf is likely going to become the next first minister, after failing at every role he's had in government.

I've also met and worked with him. Pr*ck of a man.

He is incredibly full of himself

 

[Bwuk]

He is incredibly full of himself

He is without doubt the Matt Hancock of the SNP.

Correct on both. He's useless. Wouldn't last a year.

 

[Bwuk]

Todays the day we get Humza no doubt.

A title change will be needed!

 

[Tincanalley]

Have you done any research on what a Scottish exit from the UK means in real terms while making up those hilarious names for the UK?

Independence for the City of London!

 

[Semper Fudge]

Correct on both. He's useless. Wouldn't last a year.

Somehow better than the mad religious one and the other that I can't remember. Poor selection.

 

[hobbers]

Somehow better than the mad religious one and the other that I can't remember. Poor selection.

Nah he's the worst of the 3. An incompetent snake.

Happy to take shots at Forbes for sincerely held religious beliefs but deliberately missed the gay marriage bill himself.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

I always thought it was likely that a quite a few of the people who told opinion pollsters that they supported independence when there was no prospect of it happening, when push came to shove would vote to remain in the UK if Indy Ref 2 if actually happened, reality set in and they were faced with serious discussions about borders, currency, fiscal transfers etc. The case for Indy Ref 2, with the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum and voting trends in every Scottish counting area, plus the fact that each of the last 3 Scottish elections have resulted in the majority of MSPs in Holyrood supporting independence, was always a different kettle of fish and much easier to make than the case for independence itself.

I always sympathised with the argument that Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against their will though. For me it was clear that the best thing for Scotland was remaining part of both the UK and EU, and that was how the majority of people at the ballot boxes / Scottish ballot boxes voted in both 2014 (in 28/32 counting areas) and in 2016 (in 32/32 counting areas).

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I always thought it was likely that a quite a few of the people who told opinion pollsters that they supported independence when there was no prospect of it happening, when push came to shove would vote to remain in the UK if Indy Ref 2 if actually happened, reality set in and they were faced with serious discussions about borders, currency, fiscal transfers etc. The case for Indy Ref 2, with the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum and voting trends in every Scottish counting area, plus the fact that each of the last 3 Scottish elections have resulted in the majority of MSPs in Holyrood supporting independence, was always a different kettle of fish and much easier to make than the case for independence itself.

I always sympathised with the argument that Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against their will though. For me it was clear that the best thing for Scotland was remaining part of both the UK and EU, and that was how the majority of people at the ballot boxes / Scottish ballot boxes voted in both 2014 (in 28/32 counting areas) and in 2016 (in 32/32 counting areas).

I think that's broadly true. The overwhelming driver for sentiment towards independence, it seems to me, is to escape the eternal Westminster right wing hegemony and not really based on a genuine nationalist impulse in the truest sense and they may well result in voting patterns in a second referendum that don't represent the current opinion polls.

 

[hobbers]

52% Yousaf 48% Forbes after Regan was eliminated.

So in the end a split party led by a clown.

 

[Bwuk]

52% Yousaf 47% Forbes after Regan was eliminated.

So in the end a split party led by a clown.

Absolutely wild that Humza failed in all his previous roles and has somehow ended up FM.

 

[Wilt]

Congratulations SNP on electing Humza “where are all the men?” Yousaf.