Interesting player, doing great against psg, he's season has been amazing
Nicolas Pépé
- Thread starter LazyRed-Ninja
- Start date
Somebody at the club must have read the first original Nicolas Pepe thread which was written in december, 2018. Reports are that United are interested in him
Close to a move to Italy? Would like to see him at Napoli. Carlo likes an asymmetric 4-4-2 with one playmaker and one striker on the wings. I think, Pépé would fit well in a 4-4-2.
----------Milik-----------Insigne---------
Mertens-----------------------------Pépé
------------Ruiz-----------Allan----------
Ghoulam--Koulibaly----Manolas--Hysaj
--------------------Meret-----------------
----------Milik-----------Insigne---------
Mertens-----------------------------Pépé
------------Ruiz-----------Allan----------
Ghoulam--Koulibaly----Manolas--Hysaj
--------------------Meret-----------------
Has already looked better in two games than Lingard, Mata and any other right winger in two years. Will be another example of quality we have missed out on. The whole reservation for Sancho is nonsense.
Hope we get Sancho. Rather perplexing that we missed out on Bernardo Silva, Mahrez and now Pepe. It almost feels like self sabotage.
Don't forget about his passport.
Pepe has looked fast but not a lot else. All final product so far has been horrific. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Looked more Gervinho than Mane so far.
Our transfer policy in these past few years has been nothing short of comical.
If his last season in France is anything to go by, then Arsenal have some player, one that doesn't only do the "nice" things but a big goal threat too.
He might come good but wasn't really impressive last game. Again, Anfield is not a good place for debut.
I think people are going way overboard with him. I think the Gervinho comparison is a good one as both came from Lille having spent the same amount of time there (2 seasons), and both had/ have similar playing attributes.
Gervinho played 67 league games for Lille and scored 28 goals.
Pepe played 74 league games for Lille and scored 35 goals.
Both joined Arsenal aged 24. Worth noting than Gervinho had a slightly better career than Pepe pre Lille, and went on to score a hefty 9 goals in 46 league appearances for Arsenal. Also that Gervinho was the star of a team that actually won the French League a year after finishing 4th. I'm suggesting that he arrived with more pedigree than Pepe, and the £12m they spent on Gervinho in 2011 probably equates to around £72m in the new absolutely mental market.
People are talking as if they've plucked one of Europe's top stars from the clutches of all the big clubs. The reality is, nobody wanted him at that price, and in the end Lille let him go on a payment plan more generous than a student loan.
He may well turn out to be amazing, but I'm not convinced. I certainly have no idea why everyone round here is so angry we've missed out on him. I'm almost certain it's more in annoyance at our board than because they've seen this guy play every week. So far all glimpses of his final product have been poor, but granted he's only appeared in 3 games, and some off the bench. He's certainly no superstar. To what heights he arrives to yet to been seen.
People getting all excited over Pepe vs Arsenal in which basically all he did was miss an easy chance and show he can run fast was really weird.
I don't think he'll be bad for them or anything, and he'll likely score a hattrick vs us because of what I've said about him, but I've not seen anything *yet* from him that makes me thing he's a total game changer.
And people seem to forget/ ignore what a huge step up it is. France is a poor league, and you only have to compare the performances of Memphis with United to those he's put in with Lyon.
Madrid and Bayern are in absolutely desperate need for a right winger, and none of them went near him at that price, and in the end he had to opt for a club outside of the CL despite the fact he would have played in the CL had he stayed at Lyon.
Not suggesting there should be alarm bells, but nor should there be talk as if they've signed the Ivory Coast Kanchelskis.
Memphis is a very different player and improved a lot since United. You are not comparing the same player.
No, I'm comparing the leagues. France is a poor league and it's far easier to succeed there than in England.
Do you think that Pepe will turn into one of the league's top players? Do you think I've said anything unreasonable?
You would expect so when spending 70m..And he has looked no better than James so far...
No, you compared the performances of a player that is different, Memphis initially struggled and was the same player than he was with United but over time he has improved his consistency, decision making and technique. I have criticized him enough to admit that he put the work. He is pretty much doing a Salah, we will see if he can confirm it though.
The Lille team Gervinho played for was totally different to the one Pépé played for, they were a lot better and had the best player in the league aka Hazard.
And I don't know what Pépé will be, I'm not mystic meg, he has qualities but like all players of his age and small mileage he needs to improve.
Too soon to say anything. I wanted us to sign him so won't suddenly call him a crap player or anything. Only time will tell if he is worth 72m or is another Gervinho. One thing he has on his side is he plays for Arsenal, so less pressure. Imagine if he was playing for United and had missed one on one chance, media would have eaten him alive.
He did very well against Liverpool, a team where he had space on the counter. Still questions if he can break down a team that sits back and he has smaller spaces to work in.
Obviously talented and an exciting player.
Obviously talented and an exciting player.
Can I ask what makes you say this? His pace will always get him into positions if given space but against Liverpool (and Burnley) his final ball and finishing has been really bad. Not sure what he did against Liverpool for it to be considered that he did "very well."
No I didn't, I compared the leagues in order to explain the difference in performance. I've tried to engage in a conversation with you but you've just been a bit arsey and dismissive in your post rather than offering some insight as to why I might be wrong.
Considering you're located in France and are labelled a "scout," I thought you might be able to offer a bit more.
He’s a slightly worse version of Obertan but better than Bellion marginally.
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I told you why Memphis was a different player than when he was at United. You used the difference of performances of two different players in two different leagues as a way to judge the two leagues. It's fundamentaly flawed.
You could swap Memphis for De Bruyne or Salah and it would be as flawed because these players evolved.
Of course it's not. Put Aguero/ Martial/ Kane in the French league and they'll immediately get an extra 10 goals a season due to the drop in quality. Likewise, Zlatan had scored 38 league goals in 31 games the season before joining United, and he then scored 17 league goals in 28 games in the Premier League the following season. Why? Because of the increase of quality in the players he was up against. A Memphis who had scored 2 league goals in 33 games for United went on to score 19 league goals in 36 games in his first full season in France? Why? Due to the drop in quality of the players he was up against. Did he develop in this time? I'm sure he did. Was he a drastically different player to the one United had sold? Nah.
Can't really believe I'm having to spell this out to be honest. Comparing stats between players from one season to a next when they change leagues and using this as a barometer of the transition between leagues is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Whilst not always 100% accurate, it's certainly a way to gauge how a player may perform swapping one league for the other.
Pepe hardly blew France away. He'll be up against it playing in English. Does this mean he'll fail? Not necessarily. Does it mean at £72m it's a monumental risk, and one that could have serious repercussions for Arsenal should it not pay off? Absolutely.
I'm personally more than happy that we passed on this one.
The boy is rapid.
I don't think that I argued in favor of Pépé or that Ligue 1 was the equivalent of the PL. I simply made the point that you compared a player at two different point of his career which is very flawed, you also seemingly didn't watch these players because Memphis was for example terrible against every good Ligue 1 team that he faced until last season and extremely inconsistent. Now the good thing when you play for Lyon or PSG is that both teams easily create chances which is good for attacking players from a statistical standpoint.
As for comparing stats, the general trend is that good Ligue 1 players score the same roughly the same amount of goals or more when they leave the league, a big factor in that is the fact that they are generally young when they leave.
Arsenal have good examples of that with Aubameyang, Lacazette and Giroud.
Also I'm not and have never been in favor of purchasing Pépé for that type of fee but that's a different point to the one I made. First I wouldn't advise to use stats to judge players when you don't watch a league like Ligue 1 because if you don't know the league you will badly judge players in both directions, secondly you can't really judge a league by comparing a player at different stages of his career in a different environment and thirdly you can't use that flawed judgement
when you try to evaluate an other player.
Lacazette scored 28 goals in 30 games (and had scored 21 and 27 in the two seasons prior) the season before he joined Arsenal and then scored 14 in 32 followed by 13 in 35. His scoring level has dropped dramatically since leaving France.
Giroud scored 21 in 26 before joining Arsenal and then scored 11 for Arsenal in 34 league games and has averaged 9.75 league goals a season since being in England (8 full seasons).
Both these strikers went from being a goal every 2 games in Ligue 1 to being a goal in every three and a half games in England.
Even Aubamayang suffered an initial drop having joined the Bundesliga (he scored 19 in 37 for Saint-Etienne followed by 13 in 32 in his first season in Germany) before developing into a top level striker, just below world class.
Sorry, but what you're saying just isn't true.
Lacazette scored a goal every 189.4 minutes in Ligue 1(excluding penalties) while he has scored a goal every 184.3 minutes in the PL. Giroud has scored a goal every 168.5 minutes in the PL and every 218.4 in Ligue 1, again excluding penalties. As for Aubameyang during the seasons that you mentioned with ASSE he scored a goal every 169 minutes and the following season with Dortmund a goal every 150 minutes, he was also used totally differently with Klopp almost exclusively playing him wide.
His first start in England at Anfield, I think you have to take that into consideration when judging his performance. He showed decent strength, control and dribbling. Absolutely some things to work on, but he looked a big enough threat that Liverpool were wary to him.
He looked selfish as feck against Liverpool, he looked skillful but ruined many decent counter attacks by deciding to dribble past everyone and completely ignore the fact that he actually had some teammates on the pitch. But maybe it was down to the instruction from his manager, but it would annoy the feck out of me if I was in his team.
The minutes per goals stats surprise me (although they swing a bit if you include penalties) but I'm far more interested in appearances to goals. If you're on the bench, why aren't you starting? If you're coming off the bench, what for? Usually to get a goal. Lacazette's arrival at Arsenal has also coincided with them staying out of the CL despite him being bought for huge money to get them back in and Giroud was very much apart of that process materialising in the first place.
When you get a gem from France admittedly they are great, but players like Lacazette and Giroud have been poster boys of Arsenal's decline. B Level arrivals from France trying to replace A Level players that were previously at the club. I've seen or heard nothing about Pepe to suggest he will be any different. B Level player trying to get the club back up to A Level (my opinion of course, I could be wrong).
As this article (below) documents in far more detail than I'm willing or frankly capable of going into, generally speaking arrivals from France are very hit and miss (and lean towards miss). I personally would question people like Lacazette being considered a "HIT" given that he arrived for £55m PRE Neymar (would literally cost £80-90m now - people forget just how costly Lacazette was) as a guy to score 20 goals a season and get them back into the top 4 and challenging at the top. In reality he's not been a regular starter and has never even hit 15 league goals. As previously stated, his arrival has also coincided with the club staying out of the top 4 and getting further away from the top of the table. Whilst this clearly isn't all on him, he's clearly implicit considering his astronomical fee and the reason for which he was bought. I would also question Martial and Aurier being considered "HITS." In the case of Martial, the jury is still out. Again, his fee was astronomical at the time but has been forgotten post Neymar. Aurier for me is a flop. He's never been a regular, and he can't even get a game now they've sold Trippier.
So, in summery, the article has been pretty kind to some players in my opinion, but the tendency still leans towards players from France failing to have the desired impact. (Again, I repeat, when they do hit, they hit big time, but this is the same as signings from any country I suppose).
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-transfer-nicolas-pepe-french-11855479
Well the problem is that almost all the misses mentioned weren't good in Ligue 1 in the first place.
Once again, thanks for the insight.
Better feet but more raw (decision making and feel for space is not good) than I expected.
Lacazette doesn't start though. If his managers don't pick him despite him scoring pretty regularly then what is he supposed to do? I actually think he's their best striker and it's bizarre they don't start all 3 of him, Auba and Pepe.
Three of the last five PFA Player of the Year winners came from Ligue 1. It's been a great export of talent for well over a decade now. The argument that success there can't be replicated in England is obsolete.
It's like Lukaku.
His minutes to goals last season was again actually very good, but as we know that's only half the story. Two managers now, Wenger and Emery have not fancied Lacazette to start every week. His overall game just isn't that good, he's a guy who's pretty good at everything, but has no standout/ lethal trait.
For the money they paid (again, considering it was pre Neymar and would equate to £80-90m in the current market), he's been underwhelming. Not a complete flop, but certainly not a success.
I think it's more the fact him and Auba together is actually quite problematic for Arsenal in terms of overall play, both are extremely clinical but Arsenal haven't created a great deal of chances in games since getting both.
Balance wise they would have been better of getting one and a class winger.
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If they have created tons of chances since getting both and they are both so clinical, why have they achieved sod all with them at the club? I'm not saying that Lacazette isn't a good player, I'm just saying that compared to the money they paid for him he's not delivered what was expected. Let's not forget, he's hardly got any caps for France either. Giroud has 90 caps compared to Lazacette's 16. There is a reason for all of this, and it's not that Lazazette is some misunderstood footballing titan.
Sorry that was a typo, i was meant to put haven't instead of have.
Interesting, as all the experts in here said he was a great dribbler, but lacked speed...