No.1 for next season - De Gea or Henderson?

DoomSlayer

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You like to push that story, aren't you? Where is logic in that? Fans support English club but dislike English players? How fans don't have a problem with Greenwood, Shaw or Rashford (he is criticized by some fans but only because he is labelled as one of our best players so people want more from him).
Yes, I very much do like to push that story, because it's the truth.
Uses Twitter as the source to base his opinions on.
Calls people plastics when he's an international fan.
Makes sweeping statements with no real-world evidence.
Joke of a post.
People who support players over the club and wish the team to lose because others play instead are pathetic and indeed very plastic, which figuratively and literally speaking is bad for the environment.
 

Water Melon

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I see hundreds of Manchester United fans on Twitter wish that we lose games because of Henderson now. :lol: What a sad, plastic part of our fanbase, it's disgusting. Another player highly disliked by the plastics because he's from the academy and is English.
Are you serious or just wumming?
 

Rolaholic

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I see hundreds of Manchester United fans on Twitter wish that we lose games because of Henderson now. :lol: What a sad, plastic part of our fanbase, it's disgusting. Another player highly disliked by the plastics because he's from the academy and is English.
This is why the club almost always ended up extending deadwood annually out of sentiment instead of cutting bait like every serious club does in the post-Fergie years.

They know that a segment of the fanbase lap it up.

That's one of the main things I've been quiet happy with Ole about, he's made efforts to move away from that and look at things much more pragmatically with a view of the long term rather than short term romanticism.

If a keeper like Casillas who won every trophy imaginable can be cut loose by his club once passed his prime, De Gea most definitely can too without a fuss.
 

DoomSlayer

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Are you serious or just wumming?
I'm extremely serious. De Gea's time is up, fans need to accept the reality. That doesn't negate everything great he has given us, but we need to be more ruthless in our current situation, we can't afford to pay him almost 400k a week to parade his legendary status.
 

Andycoleno9

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Yes, I very much do like to push that story, because it's the truth.

People who support players over the club and wish the team to lose because others play instead are pathetic and indeed very plastic, which figuratively and literally speaking is bad for the environment.
So United fans (fans of club whos tradition is to have academy players) dislike English players and academy players? Wow, i don't know how it is even possible.
 

DoomSlayer

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So United fans (fans of club whos tradition is to have academy players) dislike English players and academy players? Wow, i don't know how it is even possible.
It's our new generations of fans, sadly, they have no clue about the traditions of the club.
 

Water Melon

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I'm extremely serious. De Gea's time is up, fans need to accept the reality. That doesn't negate everything great he has given us, but we need to be more ruthless in our current situation, we can't afford to pay him almost 400k a week to parade his legendary status.
What does this have to do with Deano being English and the so-called "plastics"? By the way, tons of fans have been saying that David has been well below his par for the last couple of seasons. However, calling people "plastics" or implying they do not like English players makes no sense whatsoever in my opinion.
 

DoomSlayer

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What does this have to do with Deano being English and the so-called "plastics"? By the way, tons of fans have been saying that David has been well below his par for the last couple of seasons. However, calling people "plastics" or implying they do not like English players makes no sense whatsoever in my opinion.
It doesn't make sense to wish your team to lose because a player you like doesn't play and a player you dislike plays instead. But then again, we've seen it happen quite a lot in our post-SAF era,
 

RkkMan

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Disgraceful the way we've handled this. We gave De Gea the big contract, knowing full-well that Henderson will want to be the number one. In fact, even Henderson is earning too much for a PL goalkeeper, let alone one that is unproven at our level.

Now, we've let Henderson take over the number 1 spot without any discernable improvement in performance against De Gea's (I personally think Henderson is slightly worse, granted he's younger). Not only that but Henderson has not been tested in front of a crowd with all the pressure that entails playing for Manchester United. Not only that but we've used De Gea having a child as an opportunity to (figuratively) stab him in the back and use the weak excuse Deano has been performing well, so he deserves his spot.

Funny though that the above logic does not apply to when our Captain Fantastic has a mare in Greece, has not played well all season or when McTominay has been subpar for games on end. Or it also doesn't apply when Tuanzebe/Bailly/Donny have had fantastic performances but never had a snowball in hell's chance of retaining their starting 11 spot. Just pure hypocrisy.


Personally, this looks like someone at the club feeling the heat and clearly taking the route of briefing against De Gea to turn public perception against him which by the sound of the gullible people in this thread has worked like a dream.

The truth is the Glazers and their puppets have given De Gea too high a wage that we cannot offload, so they want to push him to take a pay cut to save face.
I`m sorry but the bolded part is the most fugazy incoherent statement I`ve read on this forum. If you think we stabbed De Gea in the back you should have seen what Madrid did to Casillas or how Chelsea quickly discarded Cech for Courtois. We`ve stood by De Gea for 3 years of the worst form of his career and he`s still been making costly mistakes if you`re unable to call a spade a spade after such a long time then it shows your opinion is more sentimental than logical as you don`t stab someone in the back who you`ve been giving chance after chance for 3 years. If any manager in such a circumstance had Henderson in their ranks as an alternative to DDG after how poor he`s been they`d give him a chance as well he may have his weaknesses(all young GKs do) but with him the only way is up and attribute wise he`s a very solid all rounded GK. DDG is never going back to his old form him losing his place even for Spain needs to tell you everything and with the wages he has he no longer justifies the return on investment.
Also using other players is a lazy narrative considering Maguire`s incident in Greece actually points to him being innocent(and he`s currently innocent till proven guilty) and he`s been our best defender and one of the best CBs in the league this season. McTominay has been meh but who`s the alternative when Pogba has been out injured? A finished Matic? Fred? At least with DDG we have a solid alternative in Henderson
Except the PSG game which was a fluke considering we played a back 3 and 2 DMs when has Axel ever played well? He cost us 5 points vs Leicester and Sheffield and has generally been underwhelming whenever he`s played and whilst Bailly has been solid in some of the games he`s played Lindelof has just been better him especially in the big games.
Donny does deserve a few more games yes but he`s also been underwhelming for most parts but he`s still relatively new.
All in all your post was extremely generic to say the least
 

izec

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Divisive fanbase over this. Not sure about Dean myself, but De Gea needs to go and find happiness and form somewhere else.
 

Andycoleno9

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It's our new generations of fans, sadly, they have no clue about the traditions of the club.
You are putting things out of context. Ok, those who will want that club lose games are idiots of course but it is not situation "you are either with us or against us". Half of fans (including me) think that De gea is better gk and that it will be huge mistake to let him go. That doesn't mean hating Henderson.
That is trying to find agenda where there is no agenda at all.
 

KikiDaKats

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This situation is just wrong. Honestly I’ve always thought DDG is overrated anyway but that does not mean I see Henderson as the answer, not now nor the future of United. We can’t forcefully get Henderson playing because England need a decent keeper for the Euros. Ole should focus on being United manager and stop trying to be England’s saviour, just look at how he lets Rashford goes off to an England camp when everyone knows the lad should be staying at home. Having the media onside won’t keep him in a job but delivering for United will.

People complaining about DDG wages seem to forget that Henderson will also be looking for a pay rise the moment DDG leaves. Both keepers don’t even deserve the money they are on. How do we as a club keep putting ourselves in situations where we keep having a barrel over our head.

Henderson seems to be national choice for United right now till your agenda blows up in our faces. DDG will move on and playing at some top club in his prime the next 6 years. United will be scrambling around paying some outrageous sum for another keeper to come save us. Let’s hope it doesn’t end up like the years between Schmeichel - Van Der Sar.

Good Luck
 

KikiDaKats

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I'm extremely serious. De Gea's time is up, fans need to accept the reality. That doesn't negate everything great he has given us, but we need to be more ruthless in our current situation, we can't afford to pay him almost 400k a week to parade his legendary status.
The 400k argument is spot on, I can’t go against that.
Your “time is up” part is blatantly wrong. 30 yr old goalkeeper and 30yr old outfielder should never be categorised the same. Football has historically shown its a position for the experienced and matured. Lack of a proper descriptive “Fine Wine”.
 

Adnan

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De Gea needs to go IMO. Henderson may or may not be the answer long-term. But we as a club need to give Henderson the opportunity, and get De Gea's wages off our wage bill. If De Gea was a well rounded keeper then I could see the point in maybe keeping him. But with the way the game is going and the added requirements for the role, it would be good to see him leave, so we can finally start to modernise the role. Henderson can easily be moved on if he doesn't perform so for me it's a no brainer moving De Gea on.

It's also reported that we've been scouting keepers in the eventuality we have to move both players on.
 

lex talionis

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We would have up shit creek without De Gea during the Louis/Jose era, it must be remembered.
 

calodo2003

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We would have up shit creek without De Gea during the Louis/Jose era, it must be remembered.
This matters exactly as much as Rashford’s off field endeavors - precisely feck all.

The decision should be completely on who offers the club the best prospect of winning next year based off their current form.

We need ruthlessness from management, not coddling.
 

lex talionis

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This matters exactly as much as Rashford’s off field endeavors - precisely feck all.

The decision should be completely on who offers the club the best prospect of winning next year based off their current form.

We need ruthlessness from management, not coddling.
Ruthlessness must not be used as an excuse for stupidity. If above all else we want to reduce wages to save money for the Glazers, by all means let’s sell De Gea. If we believe Henderson is today the superior keeper, by all means let’s sell De Gea.

But I seriously doubt anyone actually believes Henderson today is the superior keeper. 3-5 years from now, there’s little doubt he will be. But he’s not today and won’t be next season. And it’s next season we’re in the hunt for a PL trophy.
 

calodo2003

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Ruthlessness must not be used as an excuse for stupidity. If above all else we want to reduce wages to save money for the Glazers, by all means let’s sell De Gea. If we believe Henderson is today the superior keeper, by all means let’s sell De Gea.

But I seriously doubt anyone actually believes Henderson today is the superior keeper. 3-5 years from now, there’s little doubt he will be. But he’s not today and won’t be next season. And it’s next season we’re in the hunt for a PL trophy.
But DDG’s past with us should not play in at all regarding the choice the club has between the two. I love DDG, have been a backer of his since his first day with us, but I now think Henderson offers more to the team. I will always look fondly upon DDG’s time with us, but his past is just that.

SAF had no issue not being concerned with players’ pasts once they potentially had peaked, we should adopt the same mentality here. Look at the situation objectively, don’t get swayed by subjective emotions.
 

MadDogg

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This situation is just wrong. Honestly I’ve always thought DDG is overrated anyway but that does not mean I see Henderson as the answer, not now nor the future of United. We can’t forcefully get Henderson playing because England need a decent keeper for the Euros. Ole should focus on being United manager and stop trying to be England’s saviour, just look at how he lets Rashford goes off to an England camp when everyone knows the lad should be staying at home. Having the media onside won’t keep him in a job but delivering for United will.
It's got nothing to do with him being English. It's that De Gea has been poor for three seasons now and there's no reason to think he's going to pull himself out of it. Therefore we can make the strong call that De Gea is no longer the way forward, and we so happen to have the best young keeper who has come through our youth ranks in a very long time, who has already had a very impressive 12 months of loan experience in the PL and has done fairly well in his chances for us this year. What in Utd's history would tell you that we wouldn't look to give that keeper a chance to claim the spot that is rightfully up for grabs?

The 400k argument is spot on, I can’t go against that.
Your “time is up” part is blatantly wrong. 30 yr old goalkeeper and 30yr old outfielder should never be categorised the same. Football has historically shown its a position for the experienced and matured. Lack of a proper descriptive “Fine Wine”.
Keepers who rely purely on shot-stopping ability tend to decline a lot earlier than those who have strong all-round game. The player who De Gea has always been most compared with, Cassilas, started declining badly at the same age that De Gea now is.
 
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MadDogg

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But I seriously doubt anyone actually believes Henderson today is the superior keeper. 3-5 years from now, there’s little doubt he will be. But he’s not today and won’t be next season. And it’s next season we’re in the hunt for a PL trophy.
The issue is that we don't know if Henderson is the superior keeper. We simply haven't played him enough to know if he is still below, at the same, or already above the level that De Gea is now at (which is nowhere near where he was at his best). He may not be better than De Gea is. But he quite easily might already be better. We won't know until he gets a good run of games. Anybody who tells you he is definitely better or definitely worse is simply making that call way too early without enough evidence one way or the other.

My guess is he'll ultimately be better than De Gea at some things, worse at others, and overall about the same. That'll tide us over for a couple of seasons (much like De Gea has over the last couple) before we ultimately look to replace him. But obviously I'll hope he proves me wrong and he ends up being good enough to be our keeper for the next 10+ years.
 

copen1945

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I am glad that Solskjaer is looking out for the long term future of United. He has been promoting the youth, and this is no exception to his consistent policy.
 

RkkMan

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It's got nothing to do with him being English. It's that De Gea has been poor for three seasons now and there's no reason to think he's going to pull himself out of it. Therefore we can make the strong call that De Gea is no longer the way forward, and we so happen to have the best young keeper who has come through our youth ranks in a very long time, who has already had a very impressive 12 months of loan experience in the PL and has done fairly well in his chances for us this year. What in Utd's history would tell you that we wouldn't look to give that keeper a chance to claim the spot that is rightfully up for grabs?


Keepers who rely purely on shot-stopping ability tend to decline a lot earlier than those who have strong all-round game. The player who De Gea has always been most compared with, Cassilas, started declining badly at the same age that De Gea now is.
It's funny how all these ABUs arguing a strong case for DDG go silent when we ramp up these debates with valid cold hard facts don't they? Deep down much as we all love De Gea they all know he's not and likely never will be same keeper of 17/18 and it's sentiment that's pioneering their belief instead of logic. I also find it funny how a forum that quite clearly saw Rooney who did FAR more for us than De Gea noticed very early that it was time for Rooney to go but they are having such a hard time to accept the same thing with De Gea even though it's been clear for 3 years he's on the wane
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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It is funny that so many in this thread are seemingly comparing Henderson to peak De Gea rather than the player who has disappointed for 3 years now. Based on performances this season, it’s been clear that Henderson is the better option, not only as an individual but the team has played collectively better in the games hes started.
 

Craig Ward

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Henderson has the shirt now, and there is no reason to drop him unless he gets injured or starts having calamity after calamity.

The GK is a position we need strength in, and Henderson is capable.

De Gea came to us young, grew into a world class keeper and kept us from lower table mediocracy for a long time. He was our only bright spark for a while.

Sometimes in football, you need a change to re-discover yourself. It's very, very rare a player stays at one club for 5+ years while maintaining world class form. it's so rare.

De Gea has been hit and miss for 2 seasons or so now, and he's not quite the keeper he has been. He's still bloody good, but his bar is so much higher than most because of how good he is. I was hoping De Gea would re-find himself because of the Henderson competition but he's stayed at the same level as the last 2 seasons.

I think long term - Henderson has the shirt and has the potential to improve more as he is younger, much like De Gea when he first joined. De Gea may find himself in better form with a move. One thing is for sure - it would be madness to have De Gea's wages on the bench and it would do him no good - he needs to play. I dont think Ole will play De Gea because of his contract so it's an interesting one.

De Gea is probably at the stage of his career where he needs a change to re-discover himself and we are left with an already established keeper with room for improvement
 

Mike Smalling

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From what we've seen from Henderson so far, he is just as error prone as De Gea currently. They have different strengths and weaknesses, of course, but I don't think Henderson is clearly a better keeper. Just off the top of my mind he gifted a goal against Sheffield United away, almost gifted one against Brighton this Sunday and probably should have saved the header against Milan (DDG would have). I'm sure there is more.

I would be fine with betting on Henderson next season, if it means we can get a transfer fee for De Gea and free up his wages to invest in other parts of the team. If we keep De Gea around, he should get a chance to re-establish himself as first choice.
 

Alemar

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But I seriously doubt anyone actually believes Henderson today is the superior keeper.
Not “superior”, but “on the same level” considering de Gea’s continuous lack of form. All stats show that de Gea doesn’t perform better than Henderson, unfortunately.

Everyone would agree that de Gea of 2017 would be superior - but we don’t have such de Gea, we have the current version, so Dean is actually on par.
 

KiD MoYeS

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I love de Gea, he is a club legend in my opinion, but it is Henderson's time. They are both very different keepers but I feel the defence looks a lot more assured with Henderson in goal - he is a lot more commanding and proactive.
 

MadDogg

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Donnarumma.
I do wonder. With us probably wanting to decide on Pogba's future one way or the other this summer, Donnarumma being available on a free (in which case we would probably need a #2 keeper as well so we could sign his brother for that role), and our obvious interest in Haaland...could we look to do another triple deal with Raiola's clients like we did in 2016? Obviously that Pogba/Zlatan/Mkhitaryan window didn't end up working out as well as we would have liked, but we have history there.

I doubt it, but it's interesting to think about.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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We would have up shit creek without De Gea during the Louis/Jose era, it must be remembered.
This is exactly how we ended up with a knackered burnt out Rooney stinking the place up at the end. It is remembered, he was paid for his time, that time is passed now. For me the loyalty was burnt out when after two seasons of below average performances he chickened out of the way of the ball vs Liepzig and got us dumped out of the CL. You simply cant have a GK who is afraid of physical contact, especially in the PL
 

sullydnl

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Once we decide that De Gea isn't good enough any more then loyalty stops being a factor. If he has to go he has to go. You might give proven players more time to regain form but De Gea has had quite a while and ultimately the team has to come first. If management's mind is made up then that's that.

Where loyalty (and affection built through years of service) should come into it is how his departure is handled. Not just by the club but by the fans too. The posters who have described De Gea as a coward or a cnut over recent times are the problem, not those who think he needs to be sold.
 

lex talionis

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This is exactly how we ended up with a knackered burnt out Rooney stinking the place up at the end. It is remembered, he was paid for his time, that time is passed now. For me the loyalty was burnt out when after two seasons of below average performances he chickened out of the way of the ball vs Liepzig and got us dumped out of the CL. You simply cant have a GK who is afraid of physical contact, especially in the PL
I said it must be remembered, not that De Gea should never be sold. All footballers have to meet the end at OT, whether their name is Keane, Rooney or De Gea. It’s clear as day Keane and Rooney were well into their decline by the time we cut them loose, and I was one who was pissed off at Rooney for holding us hostage to outrageous wage demands and threatening going to Chelsea...which I was actually ok with (but understood why Moyes was terrified of that prospect).

But De Gea is not in decline and he’s clearly the superior keeper today, and he was clearly world class not that long ago. Henderson has never been world class, nowhere close to De Gea’s level three seasons ago.

We have to decide where we think United will be next season. If we’re in rebuilding mode to set us up to compete for the PL trophy two seasons from now then I completely agree with cutting Dave loose this summer and going with Dean, but if we’re going for major trophies next season — genuinely committing to it by keeping Pogba and bringing in top talent this summer — then we’d be out of minds to get rid of the keeper who has vastly greater experience and is the better keeper.

We’ll find out this summer whether the Glazers are willing to make the investments required to compete for major trophies or if they are happy enough owning a top four club.
 

Rolaholic

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I do wonder what people have been watching the last 2-3 seasons if they don't think Dave has been showing continuous signs of decline...

We've quite literally been knocked out of Europe and missed out on CL football off the back of keeper errors.

Maybe Deano is the long term answer, maybe he isn't. We haven't gotten to see him in the role enough to make a definitive claim either way.

What has been made clear though is that Dave isn't the short or long term answer anymore. Maybe a change of scenery might be what he needs
 
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Devil81

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Donnarumma.
How come his contract situation isn't get much media attention?

I thought he was fantastic in the two games against us, looked a top draw keeper. The only issue being it's Raiola again!!
 

Djemba-Djemba

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It is funny that so many in this thread are seemingly comparing Henderson to peak De Gea rather than the player who has disappointed for 3 years now. Based on performances this season, it’s been clear that Henderson is the better option, not only as an individual but the team has played collectively better in the games hes started.
Exactly this!

De Gea at his peak would obviously be number 1, it wouldn't even be a debate. But this isn't peak De Gea anymore, it's a De Gea prone to terrible mistakes who refuses to come off his line and is seemingly terrified of any contact.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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I said it must be remembered, not that De Gea should never be sold. All footballers have to meet the end at OT, whether their name is Keane, Rooney or De Gea. It’s clear as day Keane and Rooney were well into their decline by the time we cut them loose, and I was one who was pissed off at Rooney for holding us hostage to outrageous wage demands and threatening going to Chelsea...which I was actually ok with (but understood why Moyes was terrified of that prospect).

But De Gea is not in decline and he’s clearly the superior keeper today, and he was clearly world class not that long ago. Henderson has never been world class, nowhere close to De Gea’s level three seasons ago.

We have to decide where we think United will be next season. If we’re in rebuilding mode to set us up to compete for the PL trophy two seasons from now then I completely agree with cutting Dave loose this summer and going with Dean, but if we’re going for major trophies next season — genuinely committing to it by keeping Pogba and bringing in top talent this summer — then we’d be out of minds to get rid of the keeper who has vastly greater experience and is the better keeper.

We’ll find out this summer whether the Glazers are willing to make the investments required to compete for major trophies or if they are happy enough owning a top four club.
Where we fundamentally disagree is that I dont see us competing for top honours with a goalkeeper who shits himself if it looks like he might get a knock, or even a ball in the face. He almost single handedly cost us top four the season before last, has gotten us knocked out of the CL by being a complete fanny, and is just not mentally good enough for a top side any more.
 

Samrat Mazumdar

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Disagree. I've always believed his biggest weakness is his inability to distribute the ball wisely to keep possession or start counters.
In the early years, his physical presence or the lack of it, did lead to instances where he was outjumped or outmuscled by rival players. I guess once he worked on his physique, his reflexes which are his biggest asset were amplified. Distribution, I feel, is more of an issue now where the GK job description has changed in football today with the GK/ sweeper role is the 'in' thing. I agree with you that distribution is also something that would give an edge to the entire team, but for the mistakes he's made, it is more around incorrect positioning and not being able to organize his defenders, especially from set-pieces