No Sancho, no Top 4... Really?

rotherham_red

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I think everyone needs to chill on the notion that the prospects of the team in the coming season are negative if we don't get Sancho.

Last season was no doubt a lucky escape but you have to remember the context: the likes of Pereira and Lingard were among the most played players last season and that damn well isn't happening this time round. Fred will be a squad player, likewise McTominay and James. Greenwood will be starting games rather than taking 6 months to be eased in like last year and Bruno will be here the whole season. Hopefully Pogba, Martial and Rashford will be more resilient as well.

Above all, I think what we have to remember is that the best elements of our best starting XI/squad are almost all very young, or are yet to hit their individual peaks, and who will naturally improve in their consistency and decision-making as they progress. They've had one season together starting consistently and we saw the marked improvement by the end of that season and it'll be a similar story this year as well, except it'll start from a much better base line than last year.

I think we'll improve on last year irrespective of whether Sancho comes, but the margin of our improvement would increase significantly if Sancho came. That is why the inertia surrounding the deal is so frustrating to me. He could be a further catalyst to the progression of this young and very exciting team that Ole is building here, just like Bruno was, and if we didn't get him, it would be a massive missed opportunity. However, if we don't get him, it doesn't mean that the team is a write-off. This team we have right now is very exciting even without Sancho.

With the squad as is, I'd have us comfortably 4th, challenging Chelsea for 3rd.

With Sancho, I'd have us easily 3rd and with luck giving 2nd a run for its money.

Irrespective however, I'd have us playing CL footy next season.
 

Mibabalou

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Oh I didn't know we were arsenal and top 4 was seen as a good season?

I thought we were Manchester United and winning the title was the goal every year.



We'll cling to top 4 without him but the outside chance of even a title challenge is dead without a player of his quality.
 

rotherham_red

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We will make top 4 comfortably without a Sancho. But it’s a good job we are signing Sancho!
Oh absolutely mate, I'm sure it'll happen this summer as well - I just don't get the wailing and the gnashing of teeth because we haven't delivered their new shiny shiny this summer. It's pathetic. What happened to developing players and enjoying what's on the pitch? I wonder if half of the present forum members were around in 2006/7 when our only signing was Carrick?
 

Cassidy

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We will make top 4 comfortably without a Sancho. But it’s a good job we are signing Sancho!
It most certainly wont be comfortable. There are 3 teams clear Pool City and Chelsea that we have to worry about. Then we are in a fight with the others Arsenal, Wolves Leicester and possibly Spurs if they get Bale etc
 

Plant0x84

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Afraid we are probably going to get relegated again, like last season. :rolleyes:


We will make top 4 comfortably without a Sancho. But it’s a good job we are signing Sancho!
Isn’t it just ! :drool:
 

romufc

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Oh I didn't know we were arsenal and top 4 was seen as a good season?

I thought we were Manchester United and winning the title was the goal every year.



We'll cling to top 4 without him but the outside chance of even a title challenge is dead without a player of his quality.
There is a clear difference between fans ambition and the clubs ambition.

Club want top 4 for revenue
Fans want title
 

Chief123

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Oh I didn't know we were arsenal and top 4 was seen as a good season?

I thought we were Manchester United and winning the title was the goal every year.



We'll cling to top 4 without him but the outside chance of even a title challenge is dead without a player of his quality.
It’s all about progression my friend. Top 4 again this season would be progression. We’ve failed to get top 4 in consecutive seasons since Fergie left. We strengthen again next two windows and push for the title in the next 2-3 years.
 

rotherham_red

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Oh I didn't know we were arsenal and top 4 was seen as a good season?

I thought we were Manchester United and winning the title was the goal every year.



We'll cling to top 4 without him but the outside chance of even a title challenge is dead without a player of his quality.
Only the clinically insane ever thought we were going to challenge for the title, ffs :houllier:

We are in the middle of a long rebuild, where the team comes in to its own just as Liverpool's current team starts to fade. In order to ensure that continues, it is imperative that we at least get CL every season in order to attract the quality of player needed. This team as is will not be the team in a year's time, even if it is predominantly made of the same players because those same players will naturally progress and develop. It's why we won the league in 2006/7 despite our only signing being Michael Carrick.
 

Chief123

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It most certainly wont be comfortable. There are 3 teams clear Pool City and Chelsea that we have to worry about. Then we are in a fight with the others Arsenal, Wolves Leicester and possibly Spurs if they get Bale etc
I say comfortably not because of the first 3 teams you mentioned but because of the latter teams. I do not see any challenge from Wolves or Leciester simply because of the ridiculous fixture schedule this season. It’s the most congested ever. They have incredibly thin squads for a top 4 challenge.
 

Lynty

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We've still got a great squad. Even with Chelsea's shiny new players, I'd still take our starting 11 any day of the week.
 

Dirty Schwein

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People forget proper squad depth.

Last year, we ran some of our top players into the ground.

Donny can help here a bit but I never feel comfortable with some of our bench options to come in and change the tide of a fixture.

Greenwood is a young lad and his minutes should be protected.

Whether we get Sancho or not, we should be replacing doofus players like Pereira and JLingz.
 

The Cat

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We need progression year on year - anything more would be desperate privilaged entitlement.

We have a young improving side we can get behind - one or two class additions year on year then next year or the year after it might be realistic.
 

Cassidy

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I say comfortably not because of the first 3 teams you mentioned but because of the latter teams. I do not see any challenge from Wolves or Leciester simply because of the ridiculous fixture schedule this season. It’s the most congested ever. They have incredibly thin squads for a top 4 challenge.
Have you seen our depth in the wide departments? I would say our depth isn't that great either except for CM
 

Siorac

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Oh I didn't know we were arsenal and top 4 was seen as a good season?

I thought we were Manchester United and winning the title was the goal every year.



We'll cling to top 4 without him but the outside chance of even a title challenge is dead without a player of his quality.
I don't think anyone suggested clinging on to top 4 would be a good season; it's just that not signing Sancho shouldn't mean we can't do it. The expectation still has to be that we significantly improve on last season's points total.

As for the title... after seven seasons without even a challenge, it's hard to see that happening any time soon. I fully expect us to be hovering around 3rd to 6th for the next decade unless the club makes some significant changes in how it operates.
 

rotherham_red

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It most certainly wont be comfortable. There are 3 teams clear Pool City and Chelsea that we have to worry about. Then we are in a fight with the others Arsenal, Wolves Leicester and possibly Spurs if they get Bale etc
I remain to be convinced on Arsenal. I see nothing from them which tells me that they aren't any different to the Wenger vintage. Wolves and Leicester are decent and will give us a tough game on any given day, but they just don't have the consistency required to break Top 4. While Spurs will implode under Jose. There's literally nothing of substance there, have you forgotten how horrid we were under him? He could have the World XI and he'd still have them play the same way, ffs.
 

Chief123

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Have you seen our depth in the wide departments? I would say our depth isn't that great either except for CM
Some of our backup players would get into Spurs and Arsenal teams. Spurs can’t even field a creative midfielder in their starting line up as they don’t have one since eriksen left. We have 3 top class ones. You can go through both arsenal and spurs squads and you’ll realise our depth is actually not as bad as theirs. Leciester and wolves certainly don’t have depth.
 

Ballache

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I think everyone needs to chill on the notion that the prospects of the team in the coming season are negative if we don't get Sancho.

Last season was no doubt a lucky escape but you have to remember the context: the likes of Pereira and Lingard were among the most played players last season and that damn well isn't happening this time round. Fred will be a squad player, likewise McTominay and James. Greenwood will be starting games rather than taking 6 months to be eased in like last year and Bruno will be here the whole season. Hopefully Pogba, Martial and Rashford will be more resilient as well.

Above all, I think what we have to remember is that the best elements of our best starting XI/squad are almost all very young, or are yet to hit their individual peaks, and who will naturally improve in their consistency and decision-making as they progress. They've had one season together starting consistently and we saw the marked improvement by the end of that season and it'll be a similar story this year as well, except it'll start from a much better base line than last year.

I think we'll improve on last year irrespective of whether Sancho comes, but the margin of our improvement would increase significantly if Sancho came. That is why the inertia surrounding the deal is so frustrating to me. He could be a further catalyst to the progression of this young and very exciting team that Ole is building here, just like Bruno was, and if we didn't get him, it would be a massive missed opportunity. However, if we don't get him, it doesn't mean that the team is a write-off. This team we have right now is very exciting even without Sancho.

With the squad as is, I'd have us comfortably 4th, challenging Chelsea for 3rd.

With Sancho, I'd have us easily 3rd and with luck giving 2nd a run for its money.

Irrespective however, I'd have us playing CL footy next season.
That's not good enough...we can push on and challenge for titles with a couple of signings.
 

altodevil

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Who cares about top-4, we should be competing for the title. No way that is happening without further signings, this year or in those to come. The depth just isn't there.
 

rotherham_red

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That's not good enough...we can push on and challenge for titles with a couple of signings.
Of course it isn't but those signings aren't forthcoming, are they?

This thread was in response to the numerous posts saying we won't get Top 4, and not a way of saying Top 4 is our trophy. I thought that would be obvious.
 

rotherham_red

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People forget proper squad depth.

Last year, we ran some of our top players into the ground.

Donny can help here a bit but I never feel comfortable with some of our bench options to come in and change the tide of a fixture.

Greenwood is a young lad and his minutes should be protected.

Whether we get Sancho or not, we should be replacing doofus players like Pereira and JLingz.
I agree to an extent, but the board seemingly haven't done their end of the bargain. Still, we have a bit of time to get some of those out and new players in, so all hope isn't lost on that front for me.

I do think some of the squad players we have been denigrating could surprise a few if they stayed, however.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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I think we will improve even with no additional signings and I’ve thought that for ages but new players could be the difference between minor improvement and going right after the title. I still think our first 11 is better than people realise and they will prove that this season but any major injuries and the wheels could quickly come off. We just have to pray for a Liverpool like freak season where everyone is fit and firing all year.
 

Kaos

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I think we'll retain top 4 if we get lucky with injuries. But we'll be in trouble if a couple of our key players face a period being sidelined and have to rely on our non existent squad depth.

But as already mentioned here its depressing we're now settling for top 4 as the aspirational norm. Feckin Glazers.
 

Hawks2008

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We're still good enough to make top 4 on paper, shame that's the summit of the club's ambition.
 
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Depends on a variety of things. It’ll be a battle though.

What’s clear is this board have zero ambition of challenging for a league title any time soon, if ever.

But hey, as long as those juicy dividends are healthy. That’s all that matters.
 

jackal&hyde

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Only Liverpool and Cheaty are better imo. and Chelsea got some good players but whether it works out or not it remains to be seen, i certainly was not impressed with their opening game, they badly need a new keeper and the defensive organization by Englands golden boy doesn't look good to me.

Sancho or not, the team will improve organically by having much better players available from the start and on an individual level many of the players will continue to develop. It's exiting times for United.
 

El-Manos

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I was never expecting us to sign 5-6 players like Chelsea did but a RW and LB are an absolute necessity. The club is showing its utter incompetence once again. If we don't get Sancho, fine but at least move on to another realistic target and don't be chasing a player we apparently can't afford for 2-3 months. It's a bloody joke. We should have moved on in July since it's been evident since then Dortmund wouldn't lower their £108m valuation.

In regards to making top 4 - providing our key players stay fit i'm sure we'll be up there. But that's the million dollar question: will they? We won't make top 4 playing the likes of Lingard, Williams and Pereira.
 
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TsuWave

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I wonder what United does throughout the year. It seems like we wait until the transfer window opens to start talking to clubs/agreeing deals. Not saying that's what happens, but from the outside looking in it seems like it.
 

Godfather

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Some proper Arsenal mentality. Feck this and Feck our board and it's utter incompetency.
 

Eli Zee

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The fixtures destroyed us last season at the end... were really gonna go through all that again without depth for any of our front 3 coming in?
 

KennyBurner

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Couldn't you just fight the urge not to make another panic thread? We will comfortably make top 4 without Sancho.

Only thing we should be worried about is injuries.
 

bsCallout

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Other teams have improved more than us. Arsenal were already improving and have added a couple of good players. Chelsea have strengthened massively.

We have added VDB who is likely a sub.

We will struggle. We need a RW.
 

Annihilate Now!

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the likes of Pereira and Lingard were among the most played players last season and that damn well isn't happening this time round.
They had the 13th and 15th most minutes respectively... and the vast majority of Jesse's minutes were in the LC and EL
 

DomesticTadpole

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Until Saturday we don't even know how the off field publicity has affected Maguire and Greenwood. Rashford is a worry. I still think he is having problems either physically or mentally with that stress fracture. There are other issues before we even get to the depth of the squad. Think the best we can hope for is 4th. If we do go out of the CL please make it when it does not involve the EL.
 

Ballache

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Of course it isn't but those signings aren't forthcoming, are they?

This thread was in response to the numerous posts saying we won't get Top 4, and not a way of saying Top 4 is our trophy. I thought that would be obvious.
Aha my bad.
Very frustrating summer so far though.
 

Cassidy

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Some of our backup players would get into Spurs and Arsenal teams. Spurs can’t even field a creative midfielder in their starting line up as they don’t have one since eriksen left. We have 3 top class ones. You can go through both arsenal and spurs squads and you’ll realise our depth is actually not as bad as theirs. Leciester and wolves certainly don’t have depth.
The likes of Lingard and Pereira wouldn't get in ahead of Saka, Pepe etc. Not saying our depth is as bad but its not a lot better so treating them as teams who don't pose a very good risk to us doesn't make sense.