No Sancho, no Top 4... Really?

justsomebloke

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Oh I didn't know we were arsenal and top 4 was seen as a good season?

I thought we were Manchester United and winning the title was the goal every year.

We'll cling to top 4 without him but the outside chance of even a title challenge is dead without a player of his quality.
Are you serious? Anyone who thought we'd win titles this year, or last, or the year before that, or the year before that, is just delusional. No chance. And no, that's not a question of "standards". You don't maintain standards by doggedly ignoring reality. If you want standards, then demand commitment and investment until we have a team that is actually good enough to compete for the title. Once we have that, you can start talking about that as a goal.
 

Zen86

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It is no mini debate. Jose has had teams that counter attacked, he has had teams that scored 100 goals, he has had reactive teams, he has had teams that set up with organization and relied solely on the individuals talent and moments to win him games etc

your head is in the clouds
I suggest you go back and watch Jose 2018, since that’s what you so confidently labelled our current football as.
 

Bobade

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Are you serious? Anyone who thought we'd win titles this year, or last, or the year before that, or the year before that, is just delusional. No chance. And no, that's not a question of "standards". You don't maintain standards by doggedly ignoring reality. If you want standards, then demand commitment and investment until we have a team that is actually good enough to compete for the title. Once we have that, you can start talking about that as a goal.
Absolutely spot on. So many on here will claim that having standards must mean we win everything every time. No.

Having standards is expecting improvements each year and demanding more from the team as they grow. This year we have seen a positive league performance, the ability to bounce back from losing positions countless times showing great mentality, the improvement of several players etc. There are standards here, we are seeing the return of our club identity. If it doesn't yield a trophy in the next couple of years then I think you can talk about standards.
 

rotherham_red

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Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of the biggest proponents of us not making Top 4 this season within this thread, are the same people who are now saying that Ole isn't doing well enough in the job, or that he's barely meeting expectations (which they ironically didn't have at the outset of the season if this thread is anything to go by). Which presents quite the logical fallacy, doesn't it? :lol:
 

Keefy18

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Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of the biggest proponents of us not making Top 4 this season within this thread, are the same people who are now saying that Ole isn't doing well enough in the job, or that he's barely meeting expectations (which they ironically didn't have at the outset of the season if this thread is anything to go by). Which presents quite the logical fallacy, doesn't it? :lol:
Yep I've put this to many of our supporters saying Ole isn't doing good enough.

I'm on a few different Facebook United forums and at the start of the season, majority had us dead to rights after a shambles of a transfer window and Chelsea signing every Tom, Dick an Arry!

Argued at the time Chelsea's reckless spending meant little, they bought players that needed not be invested in as they had talents already in those positions and failed to adequately invest in the weak areas and that Frank wouldn't amount to much either.

I've a Liverpool supporting mate and it was part tongue in cheek but I predicted they'd have a dip in form and injuries would play a big part in that... didn't think it'd be quite this bad, had them fighting with us for 2nd, but I'm happy enough to see them in our rear view mirror this season.

The sad reality is the vast, vast majority of football supporters sit somewhere between right here, right now and short term memory. It's instant gratification and glory hunting.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Crazy part is we are likely going to finish 2nd place with basically the same team as last year. Sure, we made some signings this past summer, but they haven't really helped out in our PL campaign

Telles: 6 starts 511 minutes
VdB: 2 starts 323 minutes
Diallo: 0 minutes
Cavani: 11 starts 1093 minutes

Cavani has played the most out of all of them, but still doesn't have a ton of minutes under his belt. Rashford for example has 2.5 times as many minutes as him in the PL. So yes, we are in 2nd place with pretty much the same team as last year, even with Martial having an off season...
 

amolbhatia50k

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I do agree and worst part is how much Sancho is overrated /hyped
I don't think so. He'd be brilliant for us and is a top class talent. But that doesn't mean we have an average squad without him.
 

rotherham_red

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Yep I've put this to many of our supporters saying Ole isn't doing good enough.

I'm on a few different Facebook United forums and at the start of the season, majority had us dead to rights after a shambles of a transfer window and Chelsea signing every Tom, Dick an Arry!

Argued at the time Chelsea's reckless spending meant little, they bought players that needed not be invested in as they had talents already in those positions and failed to adequately invest in the weak areas and that Frank wouldn't amount to much either.

I've a Liverpool supporting mate and it was part tongue in cheek but I predicted they'd have a dip in form and injuries would play a big part in that... didn't think it'd be quite this bad, had them fighting with us for 2nd, but I'm happy enough to see them in our rear view mirror this season.

The sad reality is the vast, vast majority of football supporters sit somewhere between right here, right now and short term memory. It's instant gratification and glory hunting.
Absolutely. Agree with every word here. Though I didn't think Liverpool would drop off quite to the extent they did. I thought we'd end up closer to them and City, but that they would be the team who would be closest to City.

My target for us this season (on the proviso that Sancho was signed) was that we'd get 75+ points and be in the Top 4 with a cup win or two. As it turns out, we're on course for that target and we didn't end up buying him, and I'd actually go further and say, like @SadlerMUFC said, we've done it with essentially the same First XI that we had last season.

Of course, it's not all been plain sailing, and I think since that Everton equaliser hit us like a dagger (and pretty much ended any semi-realistic hopes we had of winning the title), we've not been the same team that we were when we really got into our groove during November to January. But in spite of that, we've been getting the results by and large, that our play deserved. Playing a game every three to four days, almost non-stop since June, having had no preseason and a shocker of a transfer window where literally none of our first team priorities were resolved, I think this drop off was bound to happen. The good thing is, rather than it being a string of losses, it was a string of draws, which points to some backbone being apparent in this team.
 

justsomebloke

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Absolutely. Agree with every word here. Though I didn't think Liverpool would drop off quite to the extent they did. I thought we'd end up closer to them and City, but that they would be the team who would be closest to City.

My target for us this season (on the proviso that Sancho was signed) was that we'd get 75+ points and be in the Top 4 with a cup win or two. As it turns out, we're on course for that target and we didn't end up buying him, and I'd actually go further and say, like @SadlerMUFC said, we've done it with essentially the same First XI that we had last season.

Of course, it's not all been plain sailing, and I think since that Everton equaliser hit us like a dagger (and pretty much ended any semi-realistic hopes we had of winning the title), we've not been the same team that we were when we really got into our groove during November to January. But in spite of that, we've been getting the results by and large, that our play deserved. Playing a game every three to four days, almost non-stop since June, having had no preseason and a shocker of a transfer window where literally none of our first team priorities were resolved, I think this drop off was bound to happen. The good thing is, rather than it being a string of losses, it was a string of draws, which points to some backbone being apparent in this team.
However, there was good reason to expect significant improvement even without a strengthened squad - we were two completely different teams before and after the January transfer window last season. Following Brunos arrival, we went undefeated in the PL. The team we ended last season with should absolutely do significantly better over a whole season compared to last season as a whole. My expectation, without Sancho, was the same as you describe with him: 75+ points in order to claim real progress. That's where we are now, so I'm happy.
 

jackal&hyde

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Crazy part is we are likely going to finish 2nd place with basically the same team as last year. Sure, we made some signings this past summer, but they haven't really helped out in our PL campaign

Telles: 6 starts 511 minutes
VdB: 2 starts 323 minutes
Diallo: 0 minutes
Cavani: 11 starts 1093 minutes

Cavani has played the most out of all of them, but still doesn't have a ton of minutes under his belt. Rashford for example has 2.5 times as many minutes as him in the PL. So yes, we are in 2nd place with pretty much the same team as last year, even with Martial having an off season...
The team improved organically as a unit and as individuals. You might even think there is some coaching going on :nervous:

They will continue to do the same next season imo but we do also need class signings to really push for the top.
 

RedStarUnited

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Crazy part is we are likely going to finish 2nd place with basically the same team as last year. Sure, we made some signings this past summer, but they haven't really helped out in our PL campaign

Telles: 6 starts 511 minutes
VdB: 2 starts 323 minutes
Diallo: 0 minutes
Cavani: 11 starts 1093 minutes

Cavani has played the most out of all of them, but still doesn't have a ton of minutes under his belt. Rashford for example has 2.5 times as many minutes as him in the PL. So yes, we are in 2nd place with pretty much the same team as last year, even with Martial having an off season...
We have had Bruno for a full season too...
 

rotherham_red

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However, there was good reason to expect significant improvement even without a strengthened squad - we were two completely different teams before and after the January transfer window last season. Following Brunos arrival, we went undefeated in the PL. The team we ended last season with should absolutely do significantly better over a whole season compared to last season as a whole. My expectation, without Sancho, was the same as you describe with him: 75+ points in order to claim real progress. That's where we are now, so I'm happy.
Yeah, absolutely - I just wasn't expecting it to be to the extent that it was (or maybe I'm conflating the two, as now that I think about it, I might have had a similar target to you after all)
 

Ali Dia

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The club will definitely end up signing players but they are rarely the same players the fans want. It’s nearly always something more sensible or sometimes someone a bit cheaper.

I knew we’d make top 4 but I also knew without Sancho or any other major quality we weren’t going to win the league or CL. We’ve definitely done well but the same issues remain until we buy starters.
 

gerdm07

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It is no mini debate. Jose has had teams that counter attacked, he has had teams that scored 100 goals, he has had reactive teams, he has had teams that set up with organization and relied solely on the individuals talent and moments to win him games etc

your head is in the clouds
You need to move on. Jose was a has been when we hired him and his spell at Totttenham only confirms it. Jose's next stop might be Portugal club or a middie in Spain.
 

Stacks

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Crazy part is we are likely going to finish 2nd place with basically the same team as last year. Sure, we made some signings this past summer, but they haven't really helped out in our PL campaign

Telles: 6 starts 511 minutes
VdB: 2 starts 323 minutes
Diallo: 0 minutes
Cavani: 11 starts 1093 minutes

Cavani has played the most out of all of them, but still doesn't have a ton of minutes under his belt. Rashford for example has 2.5 times as many minutes as him in the PL. So yes, we are in 2nd place with pretty much the same team as last year, even with Martial having an off season...
Thats a fundemental part of any team. having good solid options on the bench
 

Stacks

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You need to move on. Jose was a has been when we hired him and his spell at Totttenham only confirms it. Jose's next stop might be Portugal club or a middie in Spain.
I want him back!!! Now!!!

Whichever club he goes to next or nation, I will become a supporter of them. I will defect