Nostalgia Draft - R1: Gio vs harms

With all players in their 3 year peaks, which team would win this game?


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Physiocrat

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Gio



harms



Gio Tactics

RIJKAARD AGAINST INIESTA

Recognising the strengths of Team Harms in the Iniesta/Cristiano area of the park, we have pushed Rijkaard directly into this area to mitigate against their threat. Not to oversell him as he can't be in two places at once, but he's one of the best of all time at flexing between defence and midfield, so he can adjust to where the threat is. For Ajax and often for Holland, Rijkaard played this hybrid role to perfection. What was impressive about his Ajax stint (and as an aside his role at Euro '92) was the way he pushed into the heart of midfield when his team was on top, but dropped into defence when they were under the cosh or when up against an elite attacker. We feel his intelligence, positioning and tactical acumen makes him a great fit for negating Iniesta's outballs and impact on the game.

PIRLO DICTATING THE GAME

Our midfield is built around Andrea Pirlo who remains the gold-standard as a deep-lying playmaker orchestrating from deep. To maximise his influence we’ve prioritised the sort of midfield platform which allows him to dictate play and wrestle control of the game. This includes reuniting him with his midfield enforcer for Milan and Italy, Gennaro Gattuso, who compliments Pirlo’s strengths and weaknesses perfectly - relentless pressure and stamina, exceptional tackling and ball-winning, safe and simple use of the ball in possession.. there’s literally no one better for this role than Gattuso. As a partnership they’re up there as the most proven combinations of the last 30 years, winning Serie A, the Champions League and the 2006 World Cup - Gattuso the prototype aggressive ball-winner to support and enable Pirlo’s technique and intelligence in possession.

Along with maximising his influence through midfield, tactically our front three looks tailor made for Pirlo’s long-range passing, with Stoichkov / Robben offering dynamic outlets to launch counter attacks or switch play behind the opposing fullbacks. Even more dangerous than those raking balls out wide, the most devastating passes Pirlo could play were through the lines centrally (he’s probably the all time GOAT at these from deeper positions, which is no surprise given he’s played most his career in diamonds). It’s here that Romario provides the ultimate threat, naturally playing on the shoulder of the last defender thise sorts of penetrating runs on behind were his bread and butter - watch any compilation of Romario’s goals and you’ll see how many were long balls sliced through gaps in the defence or hit over the top with Romario inevitably rounding or lobbing the keeper, whilst the defence were scratching their heads trying to figure out what had happened. Tactically the variety and range of offensive movement looks impossible to defend consistently given the quality of Pirlo’s passing, he’ll be like a kid in a sweet shop deciding whether to pick out Romario on the last man, Robben cutting into the channels or slipping Stoichkov through as he breaks through the lines. It’s the sort attacking line-up which guarantee goals regardless of service, but when orchestrated by Pirlo the threat goes up exponentially.

TACTICAL CONUNDRUM: OUR FORWARD LINE

Stoichkov / Romario / Robben looks like a devastating attack with all three amongst the consensus best in the world over this period. Tactically the front three will cause all sorts of problems, with prototype electric inside forwards with the acceleration and top-line speed to burst past their fullbacks if harms pushes up and plays a high-line. Both Robben (in the deadliest goalscoring form of his career with 55 goals in 91 games over this period) and Stoichkov (‘94 Ballon d’Or winner and best player in Europe along with Baggio and Laudrup) were truly exceptional dribblers and have a distinct advantage over their fullbacks. When harms pushes forward a quick-ball out to the flanks should wreck havoc cut through that defence like a hot-knife. Which means tactically a deep-line is the way to go? Well, no, not against arguably the greatest penalty box player of all time in Romario (best player in the world, with one of the all time great tournaments in USA ‘94 when he led Brazil to their fourth World Cup). With his burst of pace, low-centre of gravity and ruthless finishing he’s second to none playing against a deep defensive line. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, which was one of the beautiful things about Cruyff’s Dream Team, who had the technical mastery to cut through deep defences but were just as liable to petrify a backline deeper and deeper to curb the threat on the counter.

Which leads to the final point not mentioned yet - that in Stoichkov / Romário we have one of the all time great strike partnerships, two players who complimented each other perfectly in the speed and directness with which they attacked: “The pair enjoyed something of a telepathic relationship and seemed to inspire each other to perform better... United had no answer to the skill, speed and imagination of Stoichkov and Romario, at times moving through their defence with an ease as impudent as it was embarrassing. Pallister and Bruce were both auditioning for the role of Juliet: Romario, Romario, wherefore art thou Romario? And nobody had a clue about Stoichkov’s whereabouts.”

harms Tactics

Tactics & Thoughts on the match up

It's not an overly-complicated set up. As I prefer, my central midfielders (Iniesta & Mendieta) are also very much comfortable out wide which gives my wide players for freedom (especially Cristiano, who will obviously cut inside very often). Tevez is chosen for his mobility, aggressiveness & versatility (alongside, well, goalscoring), Brian Laudrup is also comfortable playing in every forward role, so they'll be adapting to Cristiano's runs.

My team is full of proven partnerships, which gives me an additional advantage — from legendary ones (Vidić - Ferdinand & Cristiano - Tevez) to simply well-functioning (Gio - Iniesta, Tassotti - Laudrup).

For Gio/Theon's team I want to highlight that a couple of his key players, while still outstanding, were already past his best post-1992. Rijkaard's last all-time great season was the 1991/92 and after that he was "merely" world-class, including his later performances at van Gaal's Ajax. Vierchowod's peak for me was also in the late 80's, even though he managed to keep performing at an impressive level for the entire decade after it! And, personally, I think that Ivanović performed better closer to 2014, although he was a good player for Chelsea from 2009/10 and on.

Petr Čech (2004-2007)

Simply incredible goalkeeper. Not the flashiest one, but his control of the box was simply unparalleled. Schmeichel will always be my choice if only for a sentimental value, but Čech has a very strong claim on being the greatest PL goalkeeper ever if we combine the level of his performances with his incredible longevity.
  • Most clean sheets in a season for Chelsea: 28 clean sheets in 2004–05.
  • Most consecutive clean sheets for Chelsea in all competitions: 7 in 2005–06 (shared record)
  • Most Premier League clean sheets in a season: 24 in 2004–05.
  • Best European Goalkeeper: 2005, 2007
  • UEFA Club Football Awards Best Goalkeeper: 2005, 2007
  • UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament: 2004
  • Premier League Golden Glove: 2004–05
  • PL record of 1,025 minutes without letting in a goal (later beaten by VDS)
Gio van Bronckhorst (2003-2006)

One of my personal favourites, such a smart and versatile player. At this point he finalised his transition from midfield to left-back position, winning Champions League with Barcelona alongside Andrés Iniesta.

Nemanja Vidić (2008-2011)

I doubt that I need to talk much about him. Integral part of our greatest ever defensive unit, fire to Ferdinand’s ice, fearless and fearsome captain, he’ll fecking murder you (I’m legally obliged to specify that he actually won’t).

Rio Ferdinand (2006-2009)

Rolls-Royce of a defender, he really had it all — pace, power, composure & leadership ability. Sometimes it felt simply unfair to the opposition when Rio would gracefully and visibly effortlessly break their attack & stride forward with the ball at his feet.

Mauro Tassotti (1992-1995)

Tassotti was a part of the greatest club defense that ever were — Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta & Tassotti. He was an excellent defender with decent attacking contribution (something that is often overlooked when people talk about him). During this period he had reached three consecutive Champions League finals, captaining his team in the famous 4:0 demolition of Barca’s Dream Team (with Stoichkov & Romario) — where he and Maldini had to compensate for the absence of both Baresi & Costacurta. That 1993/94 season was outstanding in many ways — in the league Tassotti’s Milan won the league by scoring just 36 goals in 34 games, all because of their defense that conceded mere 15 goals throughout the entire season!

Dunga (1992-1995)

A player that got a whole era named after him! «Dunga Era» was a bit of a misrepresentation of him to be honest, he was not just a thug, but a very technically refined player with an outstanding passing range — even with an outside of his boot. Still, I can’t ask for a better player to patrol the zone in front of my defense. Scarily consistent, physical, with methodically accurate passing — with his performance in the World Cup final of 1994 being the highlight of that era.


Gaizka Mendieta (1998-2001)

Becoming UEFA Club Midfielder of the Season is no mean feat — let alone doing it twice in a row while competing with peak Redondo, Keane and Davids. Before his inexplicable failure at Lazio Mendieta was on his way to becoming a modern version of Johan Neeskens — starting out as a right back he developed in a fantastic all-rounded midfielder with endless energy, great passing range & dribbling and, of course, a special knack for scoring all sorts of goals. His performances from that peak period were borderline genius — winning multiple trophies with Valencia & leading them to two consecutive Champions League finals. Maybe I’ll do a gif of a moment from the game against Real Madrid that explains him the best — first he makes a last-ditch tackle on Raúl, who is already getting ready to shoot & a minute later he finds himself on the other side of the pitch, scoring the first goal of the game. Mendieta in a nutshell.

Andrés Iniesta (2009-2012)

Don Andrès is football. He doesn’t pull rabbits out of his hat, he pulls out big, beautiful peacocks.

Cristiano Ronaldo (2009-2012)

Weirdly enough, it’s somehow easy to forget just how good he was during his first years in Madrid, especially when you look at him now. He still had that flair & creativity, he was able to beat players for fun & even scored free kicks on a regular basis — all while scoring 50-60 goals per season. Best player in the draft.

Brian Laudrup (1994-1997)

Brian was always somewhat an enigma, but in his younger days he failed to consistently perform according to his talent, even though he had some wonderful moments at Bayern and Fiorentina and, obviously, there were the 1992 Euros. The move to Scotland worked wonders though as he finally matured and started providing outstanding performances week in week out. It’s not a coincidence that our resident Rangers fan (and my opponent today) put him ahead of the likes of Finney, Matthews, Rensenbrink & Beckham on his all-time wingers list, he was majestic. So elegant, so elusive with his dribbling (probably even more so than his older brother) — and so wonderfully unselfish. His former manager, John Greig, summed him up quite well — and this is why I’ve picked him next to a goal-hungry monster like Cristiano: «Apart from applying the ammunition, Brian Laudrup was also capable of scoring his share of goals, but I genuinely believe that he was embarrassed about scoring. He seemed to derive much more pleasure from making goals».

Carlos Tevez (2007-2010)

I needed someone hard-working, versatile and, well, still talented up front and Tevez seemed like a fantastic option, specially given his proven chemistry with Cristiano. The list of his honours speaks for itself — he won stuff everywhere he went. He may have not been as naturally talented as, say, Benzema, but his insatiable hunger for winning more than made up for that.
 
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Gio

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PLAYER PEAKS

GIANLUIGI BUFFON (2003-2006)
12-time Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year. Generally viewed as the best of all time alongside Yashin.

JENS LEHMANN (2003-2006)
The sort of cnut you'd want in your team and who probably injured Buffon to get a start here. Went 853 minutes without conceding a goal en route to Arsenal's Champions League final with Barcelona in 2006. Various individual honours including UEFA Goalkeeper of the Year in 1997 and 2006, Bundesliga Team of the Season (ahead of Kahn, Kopke and Klos) in 1996, and the FIFA World Cup All-Star Team(alongside Buffon) in 2006.

ERIC ABIDAL (2009-2012)
Quick and strong, Abidal was comfortable as a natural left-back or inside at centre-half. Integral part of Guardiola's great Barcelona side in a decorated career winning 7 league titles and 2 Champions Leagues.

BRANISLAV IVANOVIC (2009-2012)
'A competitive animal with a big heart' who was both a tenacious defender and a potent attacker. Over a 6-year period at Chelsea was responsible for 60 goals (30 goals and 30 assists). Within the time period at Chelsea he won 4 domestic trophies and a Champions League that owed everything to a humungous defensive effort. Selected in the PFA Team of the Year in 2009/10.
Robert Pires said:
For me, Chelsea's best player is Branislav Ivanovic. He's the best defender in the UK and maybe even in Europe. I don't understand why nobody talks about him. It’s strange because I think he’s complete. He’s got everything. He's very strong, he’s got a good jump, he's fast and he's got good technique. For me, he is perfect for a defender. He’s a giant.
LUCIO (2007-2010)
Physical monster blessed with athleticism and an impressive range of technical ability. Talismanic for Leverkusen in 2001/02, a brick wall for Brazil and Bayern through the middle of the decade, and then a man mountain for Inter as he closed the decade with a treble. Won it all, including selections in 6 Bundesliga Teams of the Season and 3 ESM European Teams of the Year.

PIETRO VIERCHOWOD (1992-1995)
Into his 30s, yet held his level exceptionally well. While others at that age took the step down, he went up in the world. Moved from Sampdoria to the two top teams in the country (and the world) in Juventus and then Milan. And despite all the talent they have accumulated in the 25 years since, it was with Vierchowod at the helm that Juventus won their last Champions League, where he helped to shut out Van Gaal's great Ajax team in the final.

In case any of this appears to be hyperbole, here are his media rating rankings in Serie A:

93/94 - 1st ranked CB
94/95 - 3rd
95/96 - 4th
97/98 - 3rd
98/99 - 2nd
Vierchowod in 1999 said:
I used to be much quicker than everyone else – now I’m just as quick as them.
ANDREA PIRLO (2005-2008)
The quintessential deep-lying playmaker of the modern era. A raft of domestic honours, 2 Champions Leagues, a World Cup (3 assists) and runner-up in a Euros where he was the standout player. Sought after by Guardiola, he would have relished releasing the attacking options in front of him here. 3 times in the top 10 of the Ballon D'Or including as the highest ranked midfielder in 2007.

GENNARO GATTUSO (2003-2006)
Pirlo's right-hand man for club and country. Never a great technical player, but the sort of player who made teams tick, who balanced midfields by complementing the flair with his functionality. Solid passer, tremendous ball winner.
Undoubtedly, the pinnacle of Gattuso’s career and his partnership with Pirlo came with Gli Azzurri and Italy’s World Cup win in 2006. With Marcello Lippi playing the pair as central midfielders they flourished, with Gattuso being named in the FIFA team of the tournament and topping charts for passes completed and interceptions made.
FRANK RIJKAARD (1992-1995)
How well did he age?
  • First season at Milan - 1992/93 Serie A winners and finalists in the CL
  • 1992 Serie A footballer of the year
  • Moved to Ajax who soon become the best team in Europe capped off with that incredible 1994/95 campaign
  • 1994/95 ESM Team of the Year
  • Retired at the very top at just 32
HRISTO STOICHKOV (1992-1995)
Bombastic Bulgarian with the venomous shot and explosive style. Runner-up in the 1992 FIFA World Player of the Year, he went on to win the 1994 Ballon D'Or on the back of another rip-roaring campaign with Barcelona and tearing it up as top scorer for Bulgaria at the World Cup.

ROMARIO (1992-1995)
Pocket dynamo whose uber-low centre of gravity and tree-trunk thighs could find space in the most crowded of penalty boxes. Formed a devastating partnership with Stoickhov at Barcelona and shined brightly for Brazil in winning the 1994 World Cup.
  • 55 goals in 70 games for Brazil - the best ratio of any European/South American player since Gerd Muller 50 years ago.
  • 1994 World Cup Golden Ball
  • 1994 FIFA World Player of the Year and runner-up in 1993
ARJEN ROBBEN (2009-2012)
Enjoyed arguably the best season of his career in 2009/10, winning the title, reaching the Champions League and World Cup Finals, and selected as the Bundesliga Player of the Season and in the ESM European Team of the Season. Despite struggling with injury in 2010/11, in 18 games he provided 13 goals and 13 assists (1.5 g&a per game), and was unsurprisingly chosen in UEFA's Team of the Year. Followed this up with another strong campaign of 19 goals and 10 assists in 36 games in 2011/12. Altogether over the timespan this was the best goalscoring period of his career, netting 55 goals in 91 games.
 

Gio

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View from the Club Deck for our formation pic there (as we say in these parts). Here's the team closer up in case you forget your binoculars today:



All the best @harms
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Wow, two cracking team. Glad I avoided both in R1!

Gattuso on the left looks a bit off and I'd have expected Rijkaard to play in Pirlo role given his chosen peak, but neither are that material. They'll still deliver a solid performance.
Harms team is spot on stylistically and will get the best of Cristiano. Tevez may be underwhelming but is a very good choice for this team.

Gio looks to have more individual quality, but can't discount Cristiano at his peak. Tough!
 

harms

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Generally it's hard for me not to think about the 1994 CL final, such a memorable fixture from the relevant time period, where Tassotti & co. taught Romario & Stoichkov a valuable lesson on humility! And a quick reminder about Cristiano, who is by far the best player on the pitch in his career-best form — already a ruthlessly efficient goalscorer averaging 50-60 goals per season, but still a fantastically skilful, entertaining player unlike this boring machine-like something that we see today:

Not sure if Pirlo is going to be able to dictate the game with Dunga & Mendieta in my midfield & Tevez dropping back from centre forward position in his usual fashion, hassling the opposition in order to get the ball back. Gattuso, despite him being a proven fit next to Pirlo, doesn't really save him from the opposition's press — and he's also (by far) the weakest midfielder on the pitch.

I don't want to criticise Gio's team too much though, as there's not really that much to criticise. Teams are very well-matched in pretty much every department, but in the end I feel like Cristiano is going to be the difference (as well as my defensive core that I rate a bit higher than his).
 

harms

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And a bit more focus on Mendieta, as he rarely gets a proper reception — he's not really an all-time great midfielder judged on his whole career, the feck up at Lazio cost him too much, but in terms of the 3-year peak it's hard to find a midfielder with an undoubtedly better resume. He was an all-action dynamo machine, tackling, intercepting, scoring tons of goals, playing centrally & on both wings, leading — by voice & by example... His passing was quite impressive too.

I wanted to do a compilation of one of his big game performances, with Redondo's Madrid being my preferred one, but didn't have the time, so you'll have to settle for this one. Assist and probably the greatest goal in history of the competition in Copa del Rei's final against Atletico, playing on the left (not his preferred side):

 

Gio

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Lovely team from Gio - so much awesomeness packed into it. The only concerns I have are regarding the fullbacks and he's up against a Cristiano team.
To be fair we pack a similar threat out wide in:
  • Stoickhov against a post-peak Tassotti. For what it's worth, Stoichkov played on the RW against Milan in the 1994 final (and also didn't have this solid set up behind him either). Tassotti was still a useful player, but had dropped a couple of levels from his late 1980s peak. For example he was rated the 13th best RB in the league in 1992-1994, and barely kicked a ball after that.
  • Robben against Van Bronckhorst. Just a bad stylistic match-up, because as much as Gio was a consummate ball player, he didn't have much pace for a full-back and is up against one of the quickest wingers of all time.
At our end, it's worth highlighting that:
  • Abidal was a proper defender for a full-back and has the rangy athleticism to match up well to a leggy winger like Laudrup
  • Ivanovic stylistically matches up well to Cristiano. As a RB / CB he can defend that space really well where Cristiano loves to attack. And in terms of attributes they're both big strong units, great in the air and highly determined. For what it's worth, they've played twice against each other and Ivanovic has shut out Cristiano on both occasions. Inside Ivanovic, Lucio has the same record of shutting out CR7 twice for Brazil. Both good fits in my view, appreciating he's still a major threat.
 

Šjor Bepo

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  • Ivanovic stylistically matches up well to Cristiano. As a RB / CB he can defend that space really well where Cristiano loves to attack. And in terms of attributes they're both big strong units, great in the air and highly determined. For what it's worth, they've played twice against each other and Ivanovic has shut out Cristiano on both occasions. Inside Ivanovic, Lucio has the same record of shutting out CR7 twice for Brazil. Both good fits in my view, appreciating he's still a major threat.
Probably not the fairest but when i think of Brane i couldnt help myself and not think of this :lol:


Mind you, Rony also looks stronger then he is so everything gio said is still correct.
 

harms

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Stoickhov against a post-peak Tassotti. For what it's worth, Stoichkov played on the RW against Milan in the 1994 final (and also didn't have this solid set up behind him either). Tassotti was still a useful player, but had dropped a couple of levels from his late 1980s peak. For example he was rated the 13th best RB in the league in 1992-1994, and barely kicked a ball after that.
He was also a part of the defense that conceded 15 goals per season though & reached 3 CL finals in a row (winning one without Baresi & Constacurta). I can't say that I trust season-long average ratings of defenders tbf as are often don't represent a true picture.

For what it's worth, they've played twice against each other and Ivanovic has shut out Cristiano on both occasions.
Well, if you're being as pedantic as you're about 1994 CL final, you'll probably want to check their respective positions. Ivanovic played as a centre back on both occasions — and if you want to include a game from 2014/15, maybe this game where Cristiano scored two playing as a left forward against Ivanovic at right back is also worth revisiting :)


P.S. the only moment when Cristiano & Ivanović faced each other directly in that 2014/15 encounter:
 
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antohan

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@harms team looks like a concerted effort at kryptoniting the feck out of that @Gio side

- Defensive "triangle of death"
- Tassotti very much the sort you want against Stoichkov
- Midfield is a handful
- In Tévez, the right kind of CF for Ronaldo and also to harass Pirlo
- Cristiano in his element

@Gio makes a good point about the high line vs deep line conundrum poised by the Dream Team. What's your position on that @harms ?

I'm not really buying Rijkaard there. Agree with the pitch re: Rijkaard alternating defence/midfield but at this point it was a CB that pushed up into midfield when in possession, not the (prior) box-to-box midfielder you would want here with those back and forth arrows.

Seems to me @Gio will be under sustained pressure here, which takes us back to your defence's instructions @harms
 
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harms

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Another bit of my love ode to Mendieta — helps to keep tabs on peak Rivaldo & dominates the midfield of Guardiola-Cocu-Enrique. Also makes an assist for the opening goal, forces a mistake for the second one and sees the game off with a cool finish from the penalty spot.

@Gio makes a good point about the high line vs deep line conundrum poised by the Dream Team. What's your position on that @harms ?

I'm not really buying Rijkaard there. Agree with the pitch re: Rijkaard alternating defence/midfield but at this point it was a CB that pushed up into midfield when in possession, not the (prior) box-to-box midfielder you would want here with those back and forth arrows.

Seems to me @Gio will be under sustained pressure here, which takes us back to your defence's instructions @harms
I'm going to be boring — I'm going with a balanced option that was usually used by Fergie with Rio & Vidić. Čech is one of the best keepers at controlling the whole penalty box, Rio's recovery pace and the understanding between him and Vida means that they're capable of pushing forward a bit — but I'm not going to play a Pep-like high-line though. I'd actually back Rio against Romario in a middle-distance run where Rio manages to get to his top speed — it's those short bursts that Romario is almost unbeatable at.

My team is too vertical for a high-line anyway, but having a keeper like Čech & Rio allows me to push forward just enough for Romario not to get a clear shot straight after turning on his burst of speed.
 

Gio

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I'm not really buying Rijkaard there. Agree with the pitch re: Rijkaard alternating defence/midfield but at this point it was a CB that pushed up into midfield when in possession, not the (prior) box-to-box midfielder you would want here with those back and forth arrows.
It’s not a straight replication of his Ajax role, but a bespoke tactic for this game to limit Iniesta’s influence and effect control in that area of the park. With his strengths - “tactically perfect” (Cruyff) - he’s better than anyone really at judging the right spaces to defend to limit the opposition threat.

It’s also an assignment that reflects his national team experience from 1992-1995.

For example this is a useful highlights piece from the Belgium game in 1994 that helps to illustrate Rijkaard's box-to-box role:


Here is how Holland and Brazil set up in their quarter final humdinger:



And here’s the shape in the pivotal qualifier against England in 1993 in a demanding two-way space-covering role:



Worth a gander for the lovely finish here for a disallowed goal


About 3-4 yards onside.:lol:
 

antohan

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I'd actually back Rio against Romario in a middle-distance run where Rio manages to get to his top speed — it's those short bursts that Romario is almost unbeatable at.

My team is too vertical for a high-line anyway, but having a keeper like Čech & Rio allows me to push forward just enough for Romario not to get a clear shot straight after turning on his burst of speed.
That makes sense.

Strange as it may sound, I'm far more concerned about Robben here.

That flank is where the game is at with Cristiano and Iniesta tearing it up but, likewise, Robben being a nightmare for Gio/Vida and by committing Vida, exposing Rio to Romario's short bursts a lot more.

Could be a goalfest really.
 

harms

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Strange as it may sound, I'm far more concerned about Robben here.
That doesn’t sound strange at all, I’m personally more wary of him than of Romario (second) & Stoichkov (third) considering my team’s strengths and weaknesses (although in isolation I obviously rate Romario as the best out of the three and Hristo/Robben as more or less equals).

Still, I believe that my team has enough to score more here. I rate Ivanović and Abidal as good defenders, but I wouldn’t put them as true greats and defensively I’d back Tassotti as the best fullback on the pitch (although he’s the least complete out of the four). Ivanović’s biggest strength, aside from not having any significant weaknesses, was his contribution in set pieces — which doesn’t really give you the necessary edge over Cristiano.

And while I rate Lucio & Vierchowod as a great and complimentary partnership, I don’t see them as a pairing capable of completely nullifying my attack — especially the wild card of Mendieta or Don Andres, who always steps up in difficult fixtures.

Also, Čech >>> Lehmann.
 

antohan

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It’s not a straight replication of his Ajax role, but a bespoke tactic for this game to limit Iniesta’s influence and effect control in that area of the park. With his strengths - “tactically perfect” (Cruyff) - he’s better than anyone really at judging the right spaces to defend to limit the opposition threat.
I don't question the judgement. The massive advantage for borderline early 90s oldies vs young late 00s talents is precisely the experience and decision-making.

I think he will be fine helping the defensive effort but think this game would require too much frantic to and fro from a B2B and he really doesn't have the legs for that. It's not that much the regularity of going up and down the pitch as is how quickly you would have to cover significant distances. I mean, it's not like Robben will just faff around waiting for support, it will all be done and dusted for better or worse rather quickly I reckon.

Maybe when the ball goes to Stoichkov, yeah. But those are really the two options in Pirlo's radar. Gattuso ain't one, Ivanovic and Abidal aren't one. Maybe Rijkaard himself but you would worry about leaving too much space for Iniesta/Cristiano.

So what I imagibe here is constant balls whipped out to the flanks and occasionally a ball over the top.
 

harms

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I also want to whine about the draw a bit, I was really hoping for Gio’s insight on Laudrup and Gio (you wouldn’t guess, but he’s a fan!), who certainly don’t get picked enough, only to get him in the first round :lol:
 

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I don't question the judgement. The massive advantage for borderline early 90s oldies vs young late 00s talents is precisely the experience and decision-making.

I think he will be fine helping the defensive effort but think this game would require too much frantic to and fro from a B2B and he really doesn't have the legs for that. It's not that much the regularity of going up and down the pitch as is how quickly you would have to cover significant distances. I mean, it's not like Robben will just faff around waiting for support, it will all be done and dusted for better or worse rather quickly I reckon.

Maybe when the ball goes to Stoichkov, yeah. But those are really the two options in Pirlo's radar. Gattuso ain't one, Ivanovic and Abidal aren't one. Maybe Rijkaard himself but you would worry about leaving too much space for Iniesta/Cristiano.

So what I imagibe here is constant balls whipped out to the flanks and occasionally a ball over the top.
You make a good point about the pace of the attack. It’ll be smash, bang, wallop. Romario, Stoichkov and Robben won’t hang about.

Still I think it suits Rijkaard to prioritise cutting the supply to Cristiano. That historically has been the most effective way to limit his threat, given the physical advantages he offers over most opposing full-backs. It plays to Rijkaard’s strengths at this stage of his career.
 

antohan

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I also want to whine about the draw a bit, I was really hoping for Gio’s insight on Laudrup and Gio (you wouldn’t guess, but he’s a fan!), who certainly don’t get picked enough, only to get him in the first round :lol:
It is indeed unfortunate as, all things considered, I'm leaning towards the obvious significant threats being clear, with both teams fully focused on them... and all the while that under-the-radar Mendieta-Laudrup combination being pretty tasty and a likely difference maker.
 

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PIRLO SERVICING THE FRONT THREE:
  • Stoichkov and Robben are pacy outlets
  • Romario offers lightning movement through the middle
  • Pirlo one of the best of all time in assisting in central areas

  • Not just fantasy stuff, here is his key passes and assists map for Juventus in 2011-12. Look at the similarities.

  • Here is a pass map at Milan to show the types of centrally orientated midfields he is accustomed to playing in and how well he feeds a central Brazilian striker in Pato.

  • And look how good he makes Inzaghi look here. Ratchet that up a few levels with the threat of Stoichkov, Robben and Romario.
 

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This is a tricky one

@harms I feel has the strongest set up at the back. Cech, Rio, Vidic and Dunga as the 6.

@Gio I just love the Stoichkov, Romario and Robben set up. The chemistry between the first two was superb and the set up well balanced. Do have question about Rijkaard's ability to go box to box at this time period though and wonder if it would have been an option to play Gatusso as a double pivot with Pirlo and Rijkaard as a pure AMC instead?

The high tempo pressing from @harms forwards means the defence needs options if the intent is to play from the back so one of Gatusso or Rijkaard needs to take responsibility to be that extra 6. Just not sure I see Frank being able to do that, and the AMC role together.
 

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This is a tricky one

@harms I feel has the strongest set up at the back. Cech, Rio, Vidic and Dunga as the 6.

@Gio I just love the Stoichkov, Romario and Robben set up. The chemistry between the first two was superb and the set up well balanced. Do have question about Rijkaard's ability to go box to box at this time period though and wonder if it would have been an option to play Gatusso as a double pivot with Pirlo and Rijkaard as a pure AMC instead?

The high tempo pressing from @harms forwards means the defence needs options if the intent is to play from the back so one of Gatusso or Rijkaard needs to take responsibility to be that extra 6. Just not sure I see Frank being able to do that, and the AMC role together.
Yes, could have been an option. Sometimes I think we underplay just how good Rijkaard was in more advanced positions as he had great feet, a thumping finish and fine vision.

Priority here was a defensive job to stop Harms midfield though. When we have the ball he would become that other build-up option as it would be natural to him and in areas where he's been deployed for the purposes of this game anyway. Don't really see that build-up being an issue though. Tevez will obviously work his socks off, but Cristiano won't and Brian could help but I wouldn't say it was something I recall being a major part of his game. And it's not just Rijkaard, but Pirlo obviously had that key role for Milan and Italy, while the likes of Abidal played in the best possession team of all time, Lucio was good on the ball and excellent at beating the press with his ball-carrying ability. So there are options there to bypass Tevez and quickly progress the ball up the park into the danger areas.
 
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ROMARIO AND STOICHKOV - ONE OF THE GREATEST PARTNERSHIPS OF ALL TIME?

Like all the most captivating love affairs, it was an 18-month rollercoaster that swept the giddiest heights before it all ended in tears as they went their separate ways. Despite an often shambolic defence - one that conceded more than twice as many goals as second-place Deportivo, and was merely the 9th best defence in the league the following year - the power of the attack drove them to a La Liga title and a Champions League Final. In 3,685 minutes they shared on the field - less than 41 full games together - they scored 63 goals.

Here are 5 of their best performances together:


  1. Barcelona 3-0 Real Sociedad. First game of the season and the first time Romario and Stoichkov share a pitch together. Romario bags a hat-trick on the opening day. Start as you mean to go on.


  2. Barcelona 5-0 Real Madrid. Romario murders Madrid. This is much more Romario than Stoichkov, who comes off early in the second half with an injury. But look at Hristo's delighted face on the bench when Romario adds to his tally in the second half. Pure joy.


  3. Barcelona 5-3 Atletico Madrid. This game has it all. 8 goals, 4 red cards. :houllier: 3 for Romario, 2 for Stoichkov (not red cards this time). Typical Dream Team fare - end-to-end and we'll score one more than you. Look at the ball Guardiola funnels through for Romario's opener, the type of central defence-splitter that Pirlo mastered.


  4. Barcelona 4-3 Atletico Madrid. 2 for Romario, 1 for Stoichkov. More chaos. More goals. Same outcome.


    The beauty here is that inbetween these two crazy games, there was another one - but without Stoichkov. Barcelona led 3-0 through another Romario hat-trick, and he almost got a 4th when a lob hit the underside of the bar. But Atletico surged back to win 4-3.

  5. Barcelona 4-0 Manchester United. 2 for Romario, 2 for Stoichkov. The signature performance. Their telepathy is off the charts.

 

harms

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Just because watching him play is one of the best things that you can do with your life:

Same goes for Iniesta — with an additional bonus of his big-game pedigree being, perhaps, the best out of all of the players on the pitch, including Cristiano & Romario:
 

Gio

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Speaking of wingers. The guy who knocked out Rio and Vidic's United en route to the 2010 Champions League Final:

 

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Well played @harms - solid drafting. Said to Theon about 4 picks in that you looked like you'd nailed those first few picks.
 

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I bailed on this. I couldn't call it, again. The teams have been mighty even in this draft
 

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Well played @harms - solid drafting. Said to Theon about 4 picks in that you looked like you'd nailed those first few picks.
Cheers! You too — lovely team, one of my favorites, especially that front trio :drool:
 

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Well played @harms - solid drafting. Said to Theon about 4 picks in that you looked like you'd nailed those first few picks.
It's a fantastic side but, more so, one that pretty much addressed everything you had going for you and dished back with aplomb.

Worst matchup you could have got, no doubt. It was almost a first round final.

I could see Robben giving Gio and Vidic a hell of a time, but couldn't quite let that in isolation be the clincher when everywhere else on the pitch I could see winning arguments for @harms

Mind, it would have been a fantastic game, goals galore, worth playing five times over, and in one or two of those it would indeed be the clincher.
 

antohan

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Ultimately, what did it for me was putting myself in Dunga's shoes.

Gets the ball, looks up, sees Iniesta and Cristiano, then looks the other way and sees Mendieta and Laudrup.

"Eh? That's my weak side? You are having a laugh" Puxa vida, você está de brincadeira, que sacanagem.