Nostalgia Draft - R1: Michaelf7 vs EAP

[Physiocrat]

Michaelf7

EAP

Michaelf7

My team will play a 4-4-2 midfield diamond formation based on 1980's Independiente. According to transfermarkt Cordoba played 20 games as a RB during the chosen peak. The midfield will have a traditional Argentinian structure with Redondo as a #5 who will play in front of and organise the defence as well as setting the tempo from deep. Simeone will play as a box to box ball winner as will Ze Roberto although Ze Roberto will have more freedom to attack and will focus more on the left hand side when both attacking and defending. Riquelme will play as a #10 and link the midfield and attack together. Del Piero will have the freedom to drift to either wing or centrally meaning that at times the left wing will be overloaded in combination with Ze Roberto and Sergi. Del Piero was in the ESM team of the season for each of the three seasons included. During the three chosen seasons Diego Forlan scored 23, 35 and 28 goals at club level for Atletico Madrid winning the European Golden Shoe in 2008-09 and being both the player of the tournament and the top goal scorer at the 2010 World Cup. Earlier in his career Forlan also combined well with Riquelme (during Riquelme's chosen peak) with Forlan describing their football relationship as follows:

We clicked immediately on the pitch. We’d both had some tricky times at our previous clubs, but at Villarreal we came alive under Manuel Pellegrini, who knew us both from Argentina, where he’d managed San Lorenzo and River Plate. Riquelme would anticipate my runs and give me balls every striker would dream of. I scored from them, often.

Source

EAP

Formation: 4-4-1-1 hybrid with (relatively) narrower midfielders who drift inside and outside.

Tactics:

+ Super solid back line. Some might not be familiar with Kaladze who distinguished himself with Milan at his quoted peak. Versatile at left midfielder, left-back and left centre-back, he's a solid performer at his position.
+ Baraja-Essien is a very productive midfield engine. Baraja's playmaking from the deep complimented well with the powerful all action tough play of Essien.
+ Boban and Prosinecki are versatile midfielders who have operated across both flanks and through the middle. With good workrate and creativity, they will bridge the gap between midfield and attack.
+ Idea is for Totti to be more of a SS/Am hybrid to enhance his goalscoring.
+ RvN as the point man surrounded by talent.

Player Profiles:

• Iker Casillas[2009-10, 2010-11, 2011-12]
  • IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper: 2010, 2011, 2012
• Franco Baresi [1992-93, 1993-94, 1994-95]
  • 2 x Serie A | 1 x Champions League Winner | FIFA World Cup Runner Up in 1994 with a spectacular performance in Finals
• Jurgen Kohler [1994-95, 1995-96, 1996-97]
  • 2 x League winner (Serie A & Bundesliga) | 1 x Champions League winner | 1 x Euro winner | German Footballer of the Year: 1997
• Cafu [2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07]
  • 1 x Serie A | 1 x Champions League | UEFA Team of the Year: 2004, 2005 | FIFPro World XI: 2005
• Kahka Kalazde [2001-02, 2002-03, 2003-04]
  • 1 x Serie A | 1 x Champions League | 1 x Coppa Italia

.

• Ruben Baraja [2001-02, 2002-03, 2003-04]
  • 2 x La Liga | 1 x UEFA Cup | ESM Team of the Year: 2001–02
• Michael Essien [2006-07, 2007-08, 2008-09]
  • 2 x FA Cup | CAF Team of the Year: 2006, 2008, 2009 | BBC African Footballer of the Year: 2006 | 2008 Africa Cup of Nations: Team of the Tournament| Chelsea Player of the Year: 2006–07
• Zvonimir Boban [1992-93, 1993-94, 1994-95]
  • 2 x Serie A | 3 x Supercoppa Italiana | 1 x Champions League
• Robert Prosinecki [1997-98, 1998-99, 1999-00]
  • 3 x Coratian First League winner | Croatian Footballer of the Year: 1997

.

• Francesco Totti [2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07]
  • Serie A Italian Footballer of the Year: 2004, 2007 | ESM Team of the Year: 2006–07 | 2006 FIFA World Cup All-star team & top assist provider | Guerin d'Oro: 2004 | Capocannoniere: 2006–07 | European Golden Shoe: 2006–07
• Ruud van Nistelrooy[2001-02, 2002-03, 2003-04]
  • ESM Team of the Year: 2001–02 | UEFA Champions League top goalscorer: 2001–02, 2002–03 | UEFA Champions League top assist provider: 2001–02 | FA Cup top goalscorer: 2002–03, 2003–04 | IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer of the Year: 2002 | Premier League Golden Boot: 2002–03 | UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 2004

 

[Physiocrat]

@harms @Invictus Poll please

@Michaelf7777777 @Edgar Allan Pillow

Game on!

 

[TheReligion]

I have a few concerns about the width of @Michaelf7777777 team as the diamond is quite difficult to pull off and requires full back width and players comfortable playing right or left midfield. I'm not overly convinced as to how Cordoba in particular would manage here?

On the positive side I like the high energy box to box of Ze Roberto and Simeone with the defensive anchor of Redondo. Very solid and will be difficult to combat for anyone and should win the central battle.

It's interesting as I see strength through the core of @Michaelf7777777 side and set up but weakness out wide then I see Cafu licking his lips for @Edgar Allan Pillow given his credentials. He could actually be the key here, along with how Essein deals with the central battle.

 

[harms]

Seeing Del Piero on the right side of a front two hurts my eyes! He literally has an entire inside-left zone named after him!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

agree with both points above, would just add Boban and Prosinecki are also on wrong sides though Prosinecki shouldnt play at all as his peak was before physio era started. This version edgar is using can still produce some magic but will do feck all without the ball so you have him doing feck all, Ruud and Totti doing very little, Cafu bombing up.....Essien was a monster but thats way to much for anyone.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

agree with both points above, would just add Boban and Prosinecki are also on wrong sides though Prosinecki shouldnt play at all as his peak was before physio era started. This version edgar is using can still produce some magic but will do feck all without the ball so you have him doing feck all, Ruud and Totti doing very little, Cafu bombing up.....Essien was a monster but thats way to much for anyone.

Was watching a bit of Prosinecki in the 1998 WC for this. it was a typically robust and hard working performance from the whole team including Prosinecki. In the match vs Netherlands [facing the likes of Cocu and Edgar Davids] you can see him put in a proper shift defensively and make that run from the deep to get on end of cross, get into position with 3 defenders surrounding him and get that shot out to score first. Also in that match Boban was playing left and Prosinecki right, very similar to my line up. I'd agree the younger version was more electric, but this peak was definitely more than doing "feck all". He was one of Croatia's top performers in that WC and very instrumental in getting that 3rd place finish.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Was watching a bit of Prosinecki in the 1998 WC for this. it was a typically robust and hard working performance from the whole team including Prosinecki. In the match vs Netherlands [facing the likes of Cocu and Edgar Davids] you can see him put in a proper shift defensively and make that run from the deep to get on end of cross, get into position with 3 defenders surrounding him and get that shot out to score first. Also in that match Boban was playing left and Prosinecki right, very similar to my line up. I'd agree the younger version was more electric, but this peak was definitely more than doing "feck all". He was one of Croatia's top performers in that WC and very instrumental in getting that 3rd place finish.

Tbh i dont really remember how he performed at WC as i didnt rewatch it and its almost 25 years it happend(sweet lord time flies). Assuming you are correct i dont know how much should isolated tournament count in comparison to his club career where he was your typical old school n10 who had 9 players running for him while he was producing magic. Its somewhat comparable with Gazza who had a great Euro 96 when it was obvious he was pretty much finished as a truly great player. For that one tournament your adrenaline is high, motivation is bigger then usual so you get lifted and by no surprise we see many performances that arent really realistic, specially when teams start winning.

 

[Physiocrat]

EAP has an astonishingly good defence although arguably Kohler and Baresi are slightly post-peak. I don't know enough about Prosinecki's defensive game here, but stylistically it is very good. Cordoba at RB and Del Piero in a right-forwardy role stand out as sub optimal and Michael will end up being somewhat narrow on the right. Great build in the diamond though I can see Riquelme and Redondo getting on really well.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Tbh i dont really remember how he performed at WC as i didnt rewatch it and its almost 25 years it happend(sweet lord time flies). Assuming you are correct i dont know how much should isolated tournament count in comparison to his club career where he was your typical old school n10 who had 9 players running for him while he was producing magic.

I'll let others comment too, but that Croatia Golden Generation was the best the country has produced. I went back and watched his CL performances with the club (against a robust Celtic) and he often dropped back and played just ahead of back 4. He saw a lot more of the ball for club as game literally ran through him.

Rather than one off, I think it just illustrates his versatility. In my personal opinion, his best position will be a CM making runs into the box. Good two way player.

arguably Kohler and Baresi are slightly post-peak

It's really hard to get a pure "peak" for players who have consistently been good over long periods. Baresi at 1994 was as good as any other peak of his career. Let in only 15 goals all season in Serie A, that incredible WC performance, multiple success (or reached finals) in CL, Supercoppa Italiana within his stated peak here. Kohler also was integral part of team which win the Bundesliga, CL and Euro with NT and got named to his one and only German PotY in 1997. I would say it's as close to any other years in their career.

 

[Physiocrat]

It's really hard to get a pure "peak" for players who have consistently been good over long periods. Baresi at 1994 was as good as any other peak of his career. Let in only 15 goals all season in Serie A, that incredible WC performance, multiple success (or reached finals) in CL, Supercoppa Italiana within his stated peak here. Kohler also was integral part of team which win the Bundesliga, CL and Euro with NT and got named to his one and only German PotY in 1997. I would say it's as close to any other years in their career.

That's fair it's just they aren't at their physical peaks at this time. I would probably have Juve Kohler as his peak and maybe the late 80s for Baresi. That said his performance against Romario in 94 is his standout all things considered

 

[Physiocrat]

I should also say though that EAP's front four look great especially Totti in behind Ruud. Lots of creativity from Totti to feed a goal monster.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Seeing Del Piero on the right side of a front two hurts my eyes! He literally has an entire inside-left zone named after him!

Seems a bit lopsided towards the left, with a RB who isn't the most adventurous. I do like the side overall though, with an excellent and dynamic forward duo, Riquelme-Redondo pulling the strings and the Ze Roberto-Simeone pair being the balanced shuttlers providing the legs.

EAP side looks easy on the eye with plenty of brilliant flair players but I'd have preferred a wee bit more dynamism and pace amongst the forward line. That midfield duo must be a real pain to play against though .

 

[antohan]

Have to say, some issues aside, whoever goes out here is rather unlucky.

@Michaelf7777777 clearly got hit hardest by the injury to Sagnol. It's already a risk fielding Del Piero on the right (intriguing, don't see why not...) to then lose your RB and having to field a rather defensive one. Rest of the team looks great, you can tell what he is setting out to do.

@Edgar Allan Pillow looks tasty on paper but some of the peaks there are a bit sus, particularly Proscinecki who generally looked a passenger and was rather disappointing at club level. I'd never stick Boban left for him.

While it initially looks like Ruud will be getting fantastic service, I can see Michael dominating centrally and Edgar having to resort to the flanks.

Zé Roberto's may wind up being the most important performance on the pitch here.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

particularly Proscinecki who generally looked a passenger and was rather disappointing at club level. I'd never stick Boban left for him.

Disappointing at club level is probably a disservice to Prosinecki. Having watched more of him in UEFA Cup 1997, Champions League in 1998 and in 1999, he was quite instrumental in one of the more successful periods of the club. He was the FotY in 1997, won the country's top award for sport in 1997 and 1998. And it was also one of the best few seasons in the club's history in Europe

As I said, I've only recently started watching him more, but even at club level in his stated peak here, he was far more than a passenger. Statistically they were some of his more productive seasons in goal scoring. I've seen him drop back regularly and be invovled in game play.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Everything went through him so naturally he dropped back for the ball against better side, issue is that he did very, very little in defensive phase.
Id love nothing more to say otherwise as he is one of my favorite players and bless you for picking him, you just did it in a wrong draft

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Saying that, im voting for you because once again michael is inactive even though he needed time to prepare....

 

[Himannv]

Voting for Michael mainly based on Redondo. Been watching a few of his games before this draft and he's just a fantastic player. Nice setup for him to shine through the middle and I think he'd play well with Riquelme.

 

[Michaelf7777777]

Seeing Del Piero on the right side of a front two hurts my eyes! He literally has an entire inside-left zone named after him!

As stated in the tactics, Del Piero will drift across the front line meaning that he will often be on the left where in combination with Sergi and Ze Roberto he can create a numerical advantage on Cafu particularly given @Šjor Bepo point about Prosinecki doing very little defensively in the part of his career that Edgar chose.

 

[harms]

I love Michael’s midfield, but in the end I feel that Edgar edges it on individual quality. His defense, even if a bit off peak, looks insane — and there’s enough grit & creativity in that midfield & attack to secure the victory on the back of that defensive foundation.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

He speaks!

 

[Gio]

Both teams have issues with width, but Cafu looks best placed to sort that out all by himself. Edgar's defence is tremendous as there was barely any drop off with Baresi's level from 1992 until about 1995 when he lost his legs. Probably more of a drop off in Kohler's level by around 1994 or so, but he starts at his peak in 1992 and was still pretty solid as an older defender through till the late 1990s. Michael's midfield structure is lovely too, really struck gold with the Redondo/Riquelme tandem and two forwards who can work across the front line.

 

[antohan]

Both teams have issues with width, but Cafu looks best placed to sort that out all by himself. Edgar's defence is tremendous as there was barely any drop off with Baresi's level from 1992 until about 1995 when he lost his legs. Probably more of a drop off in Kohler's level by around 1994 or so, but he starts at his peak in 1992 and was still pretty solid as an older defender through till the late 1990s. Michael's midfield structure is lovely too, really struck gold with the Redondo/Riquelme tandem and two forwards who can work across the front line.

Agree on the defenders. May not be top career peak but still up there with the best you could get in this draft.

Think the bolded point has been underrated. That midfield will work brilliantly, can't see Edgar living with it. And the two forwards are exactly what you want ahead of them, lots of movement, interchanging, comfortable across the frontline.

Threatening as Cafú is, I reckon Zé Roberto will provide great support for Sergi and it's a tad worrying what can happen in his area of the pitch (the Del Piero Zone @harms ) with Del Piero or Forlán receiving after turnover. Redondo sure can put a great ball out there for either.

 

[antohan]

Disappointing at club level is probably a disservice to Prosinecki. Having watched more of him in UEFA Cup 1997, Champions League in 1998 and in 1999, he was quite instrumental in one of the more successful periods of the club. He was the FotY in 1997, won the country's top award for sport in 1997 and 1998. And it was also one of the best few seasons in the club's history in Europe

As I said, I've only recently started watching him more, but even at club level in his stated peak here, he was far more than a passenger. Statistically they were some of his more productive seasons in goal scoring. I've seen him drop back regularly and be invovled in game play.

Well, that may well be an issue as I'm not about to research or rewatch his career.

My lasting memory of him in the second half of the 90s is: disappointing. I mentioned on the thread how thrilled I was seeing all these starts go into top gear and really embrace having opportunities they couldn't even dream of as kids. Never got that from him, guy looked half-arsed. Often evidently the most talented player on the pitch, just not bothered. Same reason I have no time for Recoba.

I agree at the World Cup he did well, the entire team worked great. I wouldn't read much into that to assess the individuals and their peaks though. It was a mixture of last chance saloon and everything that was happening back home. They could give everyone a warm fuzzy feeling, if not hope in tough times. In that context, I expect nothing less from an NT really. OK, yeah, if it's Tahiti no amount of effort will make up for technical shortcomings. Never the issue with these guys though.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

My lasting memory of him in the second half of the 90s is: disappointing. I mentioned on the thread how thrilled I was seeing all these starts go into top gear and really embrace having opportunities they couldn't even dream of as kids. Never got that from him, guy looked half-arsed. Often evidently the most talented player on the pitch, just not bothered. Same reason I have no time for Recoba.

they are nothing alike even though in the end they ended in the same alley

 

[antohan]

they are nothing alike even though in the end they ended in the same alley

Not as players/styles, no, I mean in terms of being so talented but how scarcely they imposed that talent on a game.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Not as players/styles, no, I mean in terms of being so talented but how scarcely they imposed that talent on a game.

yeah i know what you meant, what i meant is that both had very different routes and very different reasons why they ended as "wasted" talents.

 

[Gio]

Some good defence of Prosinecki from Edgar. Although I agree with the consensus view that after his injuries in Spain he was half the player in his prime, at club level at least. Or he now became the main man for teams like Portsmouth as opposed to an elite side like Zvezda.

 

[antohan]

yeah i know what you meant, what i meant is that both had very different routes and very different reasons why they ended as "wasted" talents.

Care to share? I'm no expert on Prosinecki's route. Recoba was just always like that and it didn't help Moratti adored him and made him the best paid player in the world even if, for the most part, he was just a luxury player for Inter.

 

[Gio]

Tbh i dont really remember how he performed at WC as i didnt rewatch it and its almost 25 years it happend(sweet lord time flies). Assuming you are correct i dont know how much should isolated tournament count in comparison to his club career where he was your typical old school n10 who had 9 players running for him while he was producing magic. Its somewhat comparable with Gazza who had a great Euro 96 when it was obvious he was pretty much finished as a truly great player. For that one tournament your adrenaline is high, motivation is bigger then usual so you get lifted and by no surprise we see many performances that arent really realistic, specially when teams start winning.

On Gazza, it more after Euro 96 that he was finished. He was brilliant in the League Cup Final 4-3 win over Hearts later that year and had a good campaign during 96/97. But he fell off a cliff in the summer of 1997 and I cannot think of a single memorable thing he did on the park after that for Rangers or anyone else.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

On Gazza, it more after Euro 96 that he was finished. He was brilliant in the League Cup Final 4-3 win over Hearts later that year and had a good campaign during 96/97. But he fell off a cliff in the summer of 1997 and I cannot think of a single memorable thing he did on the park after that for Rangers or anyone else.

finished compared to his best version, i know he was still quality for you guys but there was a reason why he was at Rangers at the time(with all due respect to you guys).

 

[Gio]

finished compared to his best version, i know he was still quality for you guys but there was a reason why he was at Rangers at the time(with all due respect to you guys).

I get that, but he was basically the same player after his leg break through to 1997 - as in the 2 Gazzas are 1987-1991 and 1992-1997. And his impressive Euro '96 performances were in keeping with his post-91 level, although he was in pretty good shape for the tournament.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Good game @Michaelf7777777 was hoping you'd post more!

 

[antohan]

On Gazza, it more after Euro 96 that he was finished. He was brilliant in the League Cup Final 4-3 win over Hearts later that year and had a good campaign during 96/97. But he fell off a cliff in the summer of 1997 and I cannot think of a single memorable thing he did on the park after that for Rangers or anyone else.

I briefly considered him off the Euros but, no offence meant, I couldn't fathom making a case for a three year peak at Rangers.

Pre-cutoff player surely, despite the occasional flashes of brilliance post that injury in 1991 or so.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Care to share? I'm no expert on Prosinecki's route. Recoba was just always like that and it didn't help Moratti adored him and made him the best paid player in the world even if, for the most part, he was just a luxury player for Inter.

Nothing ground breaking but something that 99% people dont take into equation because its not something you think about when you think about football. I never thought about that before i listen to him at one podcast and after that he got me thinking. Its the war. There are other little things that didnt help(foreign rule, injuries - combine that with heavy smoking and there is no surprise he was a passanger running wise at the end of his career) but if you look at that whole Yugoslavia generation, without question the best one from this areas in terms of talent, by far id say you can pretty much say the same thing for every single player and thats that they underachieved and had the talent to do more(there are 3 names that come to mind when it comes to reaching their heights and those are Mijatovic, Suker and Boksic). Most still had great careers(which was inevitable given the amount of talent) but could or should have done more, specially Prosinecki and Savicevic who had the talent to reach the very top.
Also, there is a point and a long enough period where Prosinecki was a great player(at Zvezda backed by 90 WC), same cant be said for Recoba.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I get that, but he was basically the same player after his leg break through to 1997 - as in the 2 Gazzas are 1987-1991 and 1992-1997. And his impressive Euro '96 performances were in keeping with his post-91 level, although he was in pretty good shape for the tournament.

id stretch that to include first season at Lazio where he was brilliant, think the injury against Roma IIRC in start of second season destroyed him completely.

 

[Gio]

I briefly considered him off the Euros but, no offence meant, I couldn't fathom making a case for a three year peak at Rangers.

Pre-cutoff player surely, despite the occasional flashes of brilliance post that injury in 1991 or so.

Aye no doubt. Gazza nutmegging hairy-arsed Scottish journeymen hardly cuts the mustard in the unforgiving business of the draft.

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[antohan]

finished compared to his best version, i know he was still quality for you guys but there was a reason why he was at Rangers at the time(with all due respect to you guys).

This.

Quality/class is permanent. When the key issue is fitness and keeping yourself in good nick holding Euros at home can provide a short term focus/incentive, but I have a hard time buying he could be consistently competitive for 3-years at top level.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

When finished version of Gazza couldnt be touched by peak Sammer that tells you everything you need to know about the great man.
If we somehow played this games for real, id have him in every team <3

 

[antohan]

Aye no doubt. Gazza nutmegging hairy-arsed Scottish journeymen hardly cuts the mustard in the unforgiving business of the draft.

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The state of that pitch

Defintely entertaining, no doubt, can say the same for Le Tissier. Similar to what I was saying re Euros and focus, he was entertaining any time I went to watch them but over time it became obvious you got a much better Le Tissier (and thus Southampton) after February or so once the noose was around their neck.

Exception was having some billy big bollocks team visiting, like that game after the grey shirts one, just to make a point it wasn't the shirts. Think it was October? Keane was sent off and they scored 6.

 

[antohan]

When finished version of Gazza couldnt be touched by peak Sammer that tells you everything you need to know about the great man.
If we somehow played this games for real, id have him in every team <3

Non-finished Gazza would have lunged with both feet and scored a Golden Goal. I will never understand what he was trying to do there.